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What Does Vaccination Mean in Real Life?

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Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Peach Extraordianire

@nebish I never said the breakthroughs led to serious illness in the vaccinated. In fact I said just the opposite that we most likely would not get seriously sick or maybe asymptomatic. My concern is rather that if we do get COVID if vaccinated that we would need to quarantine which is an issue for my wife due to her job. It also means that the person who does have a breakthrough will need to quarantine in their room which places an additional burden on the family. My wife is tested weekly so if she contracts the virus it will get caught while the rest of the family is not tested.

Also my 15 year old has mild asthma but did not qualify for early vaccination but will get her first shot this weekend. I feel good that will provide some protection but wish the CDC had waited for a few more months until the 12-15 age groups had more vaccinations in place before relaxing restrictions. 

Breakthroughs maybe rare now but how rare will it be once all restrictions are lifted and people are exposed to each other in close quarters and unmasked.

The NY Yankees just had 9 people on their team and support staff who were vaccinated with the J&J vaccine test positive. 7 out of the 9 were asymptomatic. Based on the vaccinated team population that was 63% of the team population vaccinated so it mirrors the 66% efficacious J&J field trial data in preventing serious illness.  Here is an interesting article on the breakout and thoughts on what may happen once super spreader events are allowed again and people stop wearing masks which will happen IMHO. I think the writer makes some good sense and asks interesting questions.

https://www.statnews.com/2021/05/14/5-questions-new-york-yankees-covid-19-infections/

Once all restrictions are lifted how will the odds change once we are all comingling without masks?

Logic tells me that we will see a spike in COVID infections once the restrictions are lifted, due to the people who refuse to get vaccinated, and masks become a thing of the past, but hey when has the CDC ever steered us wrong?

It happened at my daughters High School when they started partially in School attendance and had a spike of 90 infections which caused them to delay full-time attendance and that was with mandatory masks and strict rules in place on the number of students attending. One caveat is none of the High School students were vaccinated at the time so that increased the risk of infection but it still showed close contact with other people can lead to super spreading.

What is going to happen once all restrictions are lifted and everyone stops wearing masks which you know is going to happen as people have short memories?

 

This post was modified 3 months ago by Bill_Graham
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Posted : May 19, 2021 7:32 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @bill_graham

 

JMO but I think the Governors here in NE are opening up things a little too quickly without thought on how businesses will manage this change. If I owned a business I would still insist on masks but then how can you enforce it with the CDC and State saying masks are not required for the vaccinated?

 

I think of course a business owner could enforce it regardless of the CDC. Remember years ago when places would have a "No shirt, No shoes, no service" sign in the window? I think businesses can do whatever they want. Refuse service to anyone kind of thing. Bars kind of blacklist people all the time. Not the same thing of course but I think you get it.

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 19, 2021 8:13 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Peach Extraordianire

@lee sure they could try lee but based on my daughters experience i doubt a business is going to try to enforce a mask requirement if the CDC and State say it is not mandatory.  A busy restaurant on a Friday night is less likely to want to lose customers to the competitors and risk them never coming back by refusing service if someone refuses to wear a mask.

I am waiting for my daughter to go back to work and find out if the mask rules have been relaxed with the new State relaxation coming at the end of the month. she will be fully vaccinated so I am not worried about her health but it could have an impact on my family if she brings home COVID.

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Posted : May 19, 2021 8:19 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

Yes Bill, your concerns are valid - I was trying to be optimistic and reinforce positive momentum for decreasing cases, increased vaccinations, lower transmission and fewer bad outcomes.  And I do think there is reason for optimism right now...that isn't to say that problems can't or won't still exist.

I can understand the situation your daughter is in.  Generally that age group is less vulnerable, but there are individuals within that age group that could in fact be more vulnerable.

We attended what would've been called a super spreader event last year.  12 days ago I attended a wedding in Florida.  I assume most of people were vaccinated, nobody really talked about their vaccination status.  I know for sure one cousin in particular is not vaccinated.  At any rate so far so good.

By the way, I'm curious about your wife's opinion on Delta requiring new hires to be vaccinated, but not requiring existing hires to be vaccinated?  Would seem logical that if the employer wants employees to be vaccinated and the goal is to have protected and vaccinated workforce at the company shouldn't they have all their employees get vaccinated instead of just the new ones?  (Report said existing employees were something over 60% vaccinated at time of announcement).

What will happen now?  We might have more breakthrough cases, most will probably be asymptomatic, most will likely go undetected unless an employer is testing, within the vaccinated people who might see a breakthrough fewer of those people should have enough virus in their body to spread it to others.  While the vaccination rate is dropping, a lot of new people are still getting vaccinated by the day.  As we get into summer, increasingly the only people who aren't vaccinated largely will be those who do not want vaccinated.  And maybe 10% of those people will become infected.  Then they will have natural antibodies and join the vaccinated group which isn't likely to re-transmit.

I think by taking the vaccinated people out of the pool who can spread virus and have symptomatic cases plus adding more vaccinated people into that pool by the day, plus the recovered people who have protective antibodies we continue to trend to a point where transmission and serious illness continue to fall rather than fear a potential spike.  The virus won't go away although the widespread impact of it seems as if it will.

Got my hair cut yesterday.  Older lady that cut my hair says that she is allergic to some of the ingredients in the vaccines (she has been telling me this for a few months now) and isn't going to risk getting the vaccine, she is going to take the risk of not getting the virus.  I am vaccinated, even if she were to transmit it to me, overwhelming evidence suggests I should be fine.  Younger lady cutting hair next to me, I overheard her say she was in no hurry to get vaccinated.  I didn't hear what she said before that, maybe she has natural anti-bodies, I am not sure.  Not everyone who isn't vaccinated is going to get it.  People are making choices, right wrong or otherwise, all the rest of us can do is protect ourselves to the extent we wish.

 

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Posted : May 19, 2021 8:21 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

My wife's office is planning on an end of June 100% reopening. Although they manage a high rise, there are only three people in her office. They have been trading on and off as far as who is in the office for months. So one girl got the virus so the other two haven't been in contact with her since. Now they want all three of them in the office together and the girl that actually got the virus is afraid to get vaccinated and refuses to do so.

I asked my wife what they are planning to do about this and she doesn't know. I've read a lot about the legality side of this and I think an employer needs to make reasonable accommodations for people. Very subjective. What is reasonable? If I were betting I think they will let her work from home. Not sure they can force her to get a shot.

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 19, 2021 8:27 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @bill_graham

@lee sure they could try lee but based on my daughters experience i doubt a business is going to try to enforce a mask requirement if the CDC and State say it is not mandatory.  A busy restaurant on a Friday night is less likely to want to lose customers to the competitors and risk them never coming back by refusing service if someone refuses to wear a mask.

I am waiting for my daughter to go back to work and find out if the mask rules have been relaxed with the new State relaxation coming at the end of the month. she will be fully vaccinated so I am not worried about her health but it could have an impact on my family if she brings home COVID.

Totally understand what you are saying. Do you want to lose business to the guy next door? Of course not. I would hope the staff are all wearing masks, vaccinated or not. And not requiring customers to wear masks endangers the staff.

When I worked security I dealt with this daily. Every day. And I was an officer for The Bank of America, not a teenager in a restaurant. Nothing against that, I've done it but I imagine people might think she is easier to kind of push around.

Guys still gave me crap all the time. They were construction workers, so as a rule a little rough around the edges. They had three issues with me and the main two were:

1. Temperature checks. Some people are afraid of it. We had this machine that they would walk through that had their picture on the screen and read their body temp. I never used that. It took too long. So I always used the hand held thing and some guys would freak, especially if I pointed at their face and they were worried about their eyes. 🙄

2. Masks. The guys that were there were cool about it but a contractor that came in for a day or two would sometimes balk at that. I heard every excuse under the sun for why they didn't have one. "Oh, I work on the 33rd floor and I left it there". "Mine is in my truck". "Nobody told me I needed one". 

They would put their arms over their faces and assumed it was acceptable. 

Sadly, they just didn't care.

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 19, 2021 9:03 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Peach Extraordianire

Fauci is advising that a booster shot will most likely be required a year after the initial vaccination.

 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-05-19-21/h_da08c24fedcbe37253022f507dca2766

Makes sense to me and I would guess that they will tweak the vaccine to account for variants. Sign me and my family up!

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Posted : May 19, 2021 2:57 pm
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@lee

Pretty tired of all the lame excuses & ineptitude of management. So many situations are just drama. What's the co-worker afraid of? She should be afraid of losing her job because employers CAN require vaccination of on-site non-union employees in IL. The choice is shot or job. It's that simple. 

No doubt the building owner who hired the management company is consulting w/their attorneys to ensure that everything is being done according to federal/state law. 

Agree w/what's been said that non-vaxxed will get over themselves (unless there is a recognized medical or religious reason) once they realize they're going to miss out on a lot of things by not being vaxxed. 

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Topic starter Posted : May 19, 2021 4:36 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

No more masks in Ohio!

Went to the grocery store, the liquor store and our favorite pizza shop and no mask signs or masked employees and maybe 2 out of 25 or so people in the grocery store had masks on.  Very nice!  Thank you Moderna, Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson and the people responsible for their development, testing and deployment!!

The only place I went that I had to wear a mask was the post office...figures...federal government.

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Posted : June 2, 2021 6:48 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

@nebish

I find it interesting about masks. Most places in Illinois are now open without restrictions. Businesses anyway. I was kind of shocked when my wife told me the other day we can go into grocery stores without masks. There are still a lot of places in Chicago where we have to where one. Any gov't building, not just the feds. All public transit. Many people, maybe most, take it in the city. Our own building requires it.

I'm kind of torn on the whole thing about no masks. I still wear one and I'm vaccinated. Since we are only at about 50% I wonder if it is a tad too ambitious but I can understand the desire to get rid of them. Did anyone see that thing in Milwaukee where they had a mask burning celebration? Kind of funny.

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : June 3, 2021 8:05 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

I think it is just knowing what the business, county or state mask requirement is.

In my county, in my state, vaccinated persons no longer need to wear masks as of June 2nd.  All capacity restrictions and face covering guidance is lifted except for nursing homes and assisted living facilities.   Individual businesses can make their own determinations and requirements, just as individual persons can make their own determinations on what is best if they still require or need a mask or limit capacity or social distance or plexiglass at the checkout.

I don't feel weird about it at all.  I'm following my state regulations and am vaccinated.  It feels great!

 

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Posted : June 3, 2021 9:52 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

@nebish

I totally understand what you are saying. But like I said, if we are only at 50% vaccinated, you obviously have an even shot (no pun intended) of running into someone who isn't. AND, how do we know if someone is vaccinated? We don't. Not sure I trust the honor system.

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : June 3, 2021 10:01 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

Seems as if USA Today went heavy to subscriber only content. 

They have a story from today:  "First in line, still no shot: Surprising number of hospital workers refuse vaccines".

We've heard of some of these workers refusing vaccines earlier in the roll-out, I was curious if it was still the case.  Appears so by the headline.  If anyone has access and can post the story it would be appreciated.

 

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Posted : June 3, 2021 10:05 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

@nebish

I totally understand what you are saying. But like I said, if we are only at 50% vaccinated, you obviously have an even shot (no pun intended) of running into someone who isn't. AND, how do we know if someone is vaccinated? We don't. Not sure I trust the honor system.

I don't worry about it at all.  I am vaccinated.  If they are vaccinated then they need not worry.  If they are not vaccinated then they should be taking their own precautions. 

 

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Posted : June 3, 2021 10:06 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

DC Area Health Care Worker Vaccination rates (per June local news):

DC Hospital Association average 61% workers vaccinated in most recent survey.

Individual hospitals reported a range of 58-80% of staff vaccinated.

https://www.nbcwashington.com/investigations/thousands-of-health-care-workers-in-dc-area-have-yet-to-get-vaccinated-for-covid-19/2688699/

 

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Posted : June 3, 2021 11:02 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @nebish
Posted by: @lee

@nebish

I totally understand what you are saying. But like I said, if we are only at 50% vaccinated, you obviously have an even shot (no pun intended) of running into someone who isn't. AND, how do we know if someone is vaccinated? We don't. Not sure I trust the honor system.

I don't worry about it at all.  I am vaccinated.  If they are vaccinated then they need not worry.  If they are not vaccinated then they should be taking their own precautions. 

 

True but we can still get it, albeit at a less severe level from what I have read. 

They are opening Chicago 100% a week from today. There is still some unclarity as to what that exactly means.

It will be interesting to see how things really open up. My wife's property management company isn't opening fully until July first. They don't know how many of their tenants (there are a few thousand people in her building) will be there. They can't make them. The tenants still have to pay their rent so I guess they don't care.

I haven't heard anything regarding public transit which most people take into and out of the city. It is going to be really weird being on a bus or train and sitting right next to someone. Most of the country doesn't have to think about that but it is a concern here. I think anyone who has ridden on a NY or Chicago train would probably agree. 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : June 4, 2021 9:23 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

Mass transit does present some awkwardness with how close people are inside subways or sitting on buses.  So I get that.

The last numbers I saw was a .01% infection rate for vaccinated people contracting covid.  They admit that breakthrough cases tend to be underreported so the number could be higher.  The CDC wasn't even going to track simple breakthrough cases any longer because it's meaningless.  Instead they will focus on vaccinated people who become hospitalized or die from covid, which would be some number significantly less than .01%.  A hundredth of a percent.  That is not something I worry about.

 

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Posted : June 4, 2021 9:34 am
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

Last night I played music at a studio with other (vaxxed) musicians for the first time in 15 months. Definitely worth missing the Allman Betts Band show that was 4 blocks from my house.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : June 4, 2021 10:29 am
nebish and cyclone88 liked
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

This is interesting. Within the last few hours my wife was told they are going back to the building full time Monday. She had her schedule and everything and it just changed like that. It's Friday afternoon for crying out loud. We're opening the city in a week. I guess they want to be prepared. Even the girl that refuses to get a shot has to go in.

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : June 4, 2021 4:29 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

I rode a bus yesterday and since the city announced they are opening up fully Friday, I asked the driver what that meant for public transit. He shrugged his shoulders and told me he had no clue. They haven't even told the drivers yet?

Bus was probably 75% full. Haven't seen that in over a year. 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : June 6, 2021 8:31 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

Continued optimism with further declining covid cases and hospitalizations.  Ohio's cases just keep dropping lower and lower.  We are below 50 per 100,000 2week moving average and only showed 268 new cases yesterday with just 12 new hospitalizations.

Vaccination rates also continue to drop.  Not sure how you add the two together, but if you factor the vaccinated people plus the people who have recovered from covid and still have active natural antibodies we should be protected more than the pure vaccinated % implies.  Fewer people to infect, less virus in circulation, this is a good feeling!

We had a cook out on my wife's family side for the first time since 2019 Saturday.  Two relatives there were not vaccinated as they are hoping to become pregnant.  I have no idea how or if the vaccines effect that, but whatever.  I'm told a nephew choose not to come to the party for fear of unvaccinated people.  Him and his wife are both vaccinated, their 5 year old daughter is not.  Seems like the time to avoid friends and family is over, but to each their own. 

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Posted : June 7, 2021 9:28 am
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire
Posted by: @nebish

  Seems like the time to avoid friends and family is over, but to each their own. 

Think the sentiment of everyone is doing what they think is best for themselves & their family is the attitude to have in our personal lives. No judgment as to who does/doesn't attend a function. There are still plenty of states w/low vaxx rates & their residents may not be so eager to attend mixed groups.

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Topic starter Posted : June 7, 2021 11:44 am
goldtop
(@goldtop)
Ultimate Peach

Yesterday I looked up the stats on polio. During he 1950's outbreak here in the US there was app 119,000 cases and app 6600 deaths over a 3 year span yet people lined up for their vaccine. Just think where we'd be if people acted about that vaccine as people do here. I live in a red state now with a 37% vaccination rate...that is just sad and speaks to the level of ignorance that has infested our culture

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Posted : June 11, 2021 7:20 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach

The aggressive nature of the new Delta variant is rendering moot, real-life vaccinations

It’s getting mentioned more & more frequently - experts say studies now show this very contagious strain has gained a foothold “in undervaccinated pockets of the U.S.,” is spreading rapidly & could put us back to square 1 w/closures, mandatory masking etc 

This post was modified 1 month ago by Stephen
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Posted : June 22, 2021 12:40 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
Peach Extraordianire
Posted by: @stephen

The aggressive nature of the new Delta variant is rendering moot, real-life vaccinations

It’s getting mentioned more & more frequently - experts say studies now show this very contagious strain has gained a foothold “in undervaccinated pockets of the U.S.,” is spreading rapidly & could put us back to square 1 w/closures, mandatory masking etc 

Key phrase is "under vaccinated pockets". Fortunately, the current vaccines are effective against it. 

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Posted : June 22, 2021 10:26 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @stormyrider
Posted by: @stephen

The aggressive nature of the new Delta variant is rendering moot, real-life vaccinations

It’s getting mentioned more & more frequently - experts say studies now show this very contagious strain has gained a foothold “in undervaccinated pockets of the U.S.,” is spreading rapidly & could put us back to square 1 w/closures, mandatory masking etc 

Key phrase is "under vaccinated pockets". Fortunately, the current vaccines are effective against it. 

 

Exactly.  Figuring that most of the most vulnerable people are the ones that are vaccinated at a very high percentage and being that vaccines are good against the Delta variant I am not concerned.  I do believe it is likely that the case count could increase from this incredibly low level (national daily case count average hasn't been this low since March of 2020!), but I don't think this is anything to worry about for those vaccinated, or hospitals or PPE being strained or any need for reduced capacities and closures...that is, so long as the vaccines hold up.  Some unvaccinated people who had covid will have natural immunity.  So the number of people protected overall is higher than the % of population listed as fully vaccinated. 

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Posted : June 22, 2021 10:53 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

The Biden administration said Tuesday that it likely won’t hit President Joe Biden’s goal of getting 70% of American adults to receive one vaccine shot or more by the Fourth of July.

.

.

Still, Zients insisted the White House has “succeeded beyond our highest expectations” in its vaccination program, achieving a vision put forth by Biden in March of being able to safely gather with friends and family to celebrate the holiday.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/22/biden-administration-to-say-it-wont-likely-hit-fourth-of-july-vaccine-goals.html

Comments by White House Covid czar Jeff Zients.  I think the administration has done excellent work in pushing for people to get vaccinated. 

But why can't people just be honest any more?  Clearly, they have not succeeded "beyond their wildest expectations" when their expectation was to get 70% of American adults to have atleast one shot by July 4th.

Just because they are going to fall a couple percentage points below that by that date does not been they haven't done a good job, they have.  I just hate the constant spin everyone puts on everything.  We didn't meet our goal, but we still succeeded beyond our expectations.  The two things can't both be true at the same time.

I say, good work, good job - falling short does not mean failure, but it also doesn't mean they have exceeded beyond wildest expectations...because succeeding beyond wildest expectations would be something like surpassing 70%, not falling short. 

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Posted : June 23, 2021 11:44 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

What Does Vaccination Mean in Real Life?

Almost 3 months since shot #2 means I don't think about covid anymore pretty much ever. 

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Posted : July 13, 2021 7:00 pm
Rusty
(@rusty)
Peach Extraordianire

From the Birmingham News this morning.  Possibly the most unbiased plea for all to get vaccinated - from a Doctor who is losing young patents to the virus.  Read it.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

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Posted : July 21, 2021 11:04 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @rusty

From the Birmingham News this morning.  Possibly the most unbiased plea for all to get vaccinated - from a Doctor who is losing young patents to the virus.  Read it.

https://www.al.com/news/2021/07/im-sorry-but-its-too-late-alabama-doctor-on-treating-unvaccinated-dying-covid-patients.html

I did read it.  Is there somebody here you are trying to appeal to?  Aren't the active posters all vaccinated?

On a side note:

Alabama football, "close to 90% vaccinated" per Coach Saban. 

Auburn football "in that 60% range" per Coach Harsin.

State of Alabama general population 33.7%.

 

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Posted : July 22, 2021 1:45 pm
Rusty liked
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