@goldtop - did you get Pfizer or Moderna? Such a wide range of reactions, or none for most. I get Moderna#2 tomorrow morning
A good friend of mine and his wife both got two shots. My friend felt kind of lousy for a few days after shot #2. His wife was fine. Maybe it just depends on the person.
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
@goldtop - did you get Pfizer or Moderna? Such a wide range of reactions, or none for most. I get Moderna#2 tomorrow morning
Pfizer
There have been 5 MassVaxx centers set up in Georgia, most counties have set up drive through centers, CVS, Walmart, Kroger, and others still require an appointment, but the MaxxVaxx centers are now open for those without an appointment.
Wife and I have had both shots of the Phizer, both kids have already had the Covid, but both also work in the medical field and got the shots too.
My wife finally realized why I was so adamant every year about NOT getting a flu vaccine. Basic history, every male in my family has some how come down with severe respiratory problems after getting a flu vaccine . my Dad got double-double pneumonia after getting one about 25 years ago and ended up in an induced coma to fight it off. My brother almost ended up in the ICU after a flu shot. Several uncles were bedridden after their shots. Starting to get the pattern there?
I ended up, after the second shot, with really bad inflammation in my back, shoulder, and neck . I couldn't turn my head much from straight ahead, couldn't lift a fork much off the plate and had to bend over to eat. Bending took a while since I felt like I had a toothache in every joint.
Right now I look like an English dandy drinking tea since both pinkies are still extended straight out. Typing using only thumb, index finger, and middle finger isn't as easy as some people think.
I still think that in the end, it will be worth it all.
Got second Moderna shot yesterday. Was very busy and active throughout the day so nothing really set in until after I got cleaned up and dinner. 10 hours after the shot I started feeling feverish. That lasted a couple hours, then I got chills. Went to bed with all my clothes on because couldn't stay warm. I'd say sometime about 2am I started feeling normal. Slept like crap, feel pretty good today. Weird how all kinds of different people experience it different, the virus and the vaccines. Same lady who gave me my first shot gave me my second. She said the second shot is exactly the same formulation as the first, I thought based on some reactions some people had after the second shot that it might have some kind of different mixture or something.
Anyway...thinking in a couple weeks I will give up the mask unless I am somewhere that requires it.
News says "hundreds of thousands of vaccination appointments go unfilled". Our mass vax location here has a lot of openings they said. When the first opened it a few weeks ago it was all booked up, now, I guess soon we will get to the point where everyone who wants a vaccine will have had the chance to get it. Then what?
I totally agree with much of what you said Scott. I think different people do (or at least can) experience side effects differently. I don't think there is a huge difference between Pfizer & Moderna, but I'm no doctor. I also agree about it soon being available to anyone who wants it. We are extremely close to it in Illinois. I get two or three messages, either email or text from either the county, state or my primary care physician every day. Obviously a good thing. Still not sure where we are with children and pregnant women.
I do disagree about getting rid of the mask. We can still get it, even if vaccinated. I'm not taking that chance. Especially with many people running around who are offered the vaccine and refuse to get it. Plus I think almost everywhere we go, at least for now, places require a mask. I was in a local diner the other day and they actually take your temperature. I've also read that some venues like music and sporting events are requiring (or are going to) proof of vaccination. I made a copy of my card and stuck it in my wallet. I have a feeling that down the road we might have to go back and have something added to our vaccination card.
And Jerry, geez that sucks. I hadn't heard about some of the effects you are dealing with. So sorry to hear that. And if you and your family have had those experiences getting a simple flu shot, I wouldn't be surprised if you didn't get a COVID shot. I get a flu shot every year, haven't had the flu since I started doing that years ago. But you never know what strand is the common one each year. Doctors tell us that. On the other hand, I've known people that get a shot and still get sick. Maybe back to the people experience things differently angle. At any rate, I hope you feel better!
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
...News says "hundreds of thousands of vaccination appointments go unfilled". Our mass vax location here has a lot of openings they said. When the first opened it a few weeks ago it was all booked up, now, I guess soon we will get to the point where everyone who wants a vaccine will have had the chance to get it. Then what?
It is so important that people KEEP and HONOR these vaccination appointments! Those doses are temperature and time sensitive. When people don't show up, those doses get scrapped if takers can't be found. When I got my final stick the doctors, nurses and other staff were frantically telephoning those who had failed to show up. I have no idea what these vaccines cost, but I'm guessing they ain't cheap.
On my first appointment I asked them how much the shot was. One of my favorite things to do is to ask medical providers what the services they render cost, which they have no idea and the 'customer' then has no idea. Anyway, she told me "it was free"! She did say they might bill my insurance company some administrative charge. It came through as a $42 immunization charge at no cost to me on the explanation of benefits statement.
My point about ditching the mask - first off, I have never been anti-mask. If you remember some of my points I would recount times where I was the only person in a store that actually had a mask on, and I didn't feel uncomfortable, instead I thought maybe they felt uncomfortable for not wearing one! I have worn two masks on airplanes. I have worn masks around close friends when others might not have. I do all that. But it comes a point in time, when I do I need to keep trying to protect other people who do not want to protect themselves? If everyone who wants a vaccine has it by a certain point later this spring/early summer, and if the vaccine protects me to the point of a less than 1% chance of getting infected then it would seem time to no longer wear the mask. Right? If not, why even get vaccinated in the first place?
...News says "hundreds of thousands of vaccination appointments go unfilled". Our mass vax location here has a lot of openings they said. When the first opened it a few weeks ago it was all booked up, now, I guess soon we will get to the point where everyone who wants a vaccine will have had the chance to get it. Then what?
It is so important that people KEEP and HONOR these vaccination appointments! Those doses are temperature and time sensitive. When people don't show up, those doses get scrapped if takers can't be found. When I got my final stick the doctors, nurses and other staff were frantically telephoning those who had failed to show up. I have no idea what these vaccines cost, but I'm guessing they ain't cheap.
There was a neighbor of ours last week that was going to the Chicago Cubs game. Night game. He ran into my wife and told her he was going to go to the ballpark early because they are administering leftover shots if they aren't taken. No idea if he got one but to your point, it is a shame. I think we are getting to the point where this shouldn't be that big of a deal.
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
Savannah Guthrie just interviewed the CDC director and asked her questions that could've came out of my own mouth and received vague non-answers. Closely paraphrasing her questions such as: When can people who have been vaccinated stop wearing masks? Do people outside and not close to other people still need to where a mask? What is the incentive to get vaccinated if there isn't a reward for doing so? None of which were answered directly or even implied answers. It's no wonder why some people feel like they are left to figure out on their own what to do and grow frustrated with those in charge.
We've been left on our own since this started - re tests, precautions, how it's transmitted (which, honestly, no one knew in the earliest days), when vaccinations would be available, how long they last, who gets them 1st, how to get them, and now, are they effective against new strains & is J&J safe. No one in either administration has given us straight answers. Maybe there aren't any.
I think the CDC & other medical agencies were caught on the back foot w/the high number of people refusing the vaccine plus new strains. It's hard enough predicting the efficacy of the vaccine if 90% of Americans get the vaccine. I think it's impossible if there's no clear number of vaxx v. un-unvaxxed & there's no bright line as to who is & isn't accepting them. The media needs to stop asking when; there is no single one-size-fits-all answer.
Just curious; what kind of a reward?
I really believe the intent of Guthrie's question is the same as what I have been thinking lately - regarding a 'reward' for getting vaccinated that now the freedom returns to not have to wear a mask or we can attend sporting events, or go on vacation, or go to restaurants, or a party, a concert, etc. Of course anyone could do most of those things if they wanted to the extent they were or are available, but the CDC has been advising against all of it. So if one is listening to the CDC they likely are wearing a mask alone inside their car (which incredibly I am still seeing even more now that last year). The push has been get vaccinated, get vaccinated and for those of us who have and those who will be - where is the 'reward'? Is the reward just not getting infected? Tens millions and tens millions of people have not been infected yet that remained in the workforce and otherwise, so if just not getting infected is the reward for vaccination, that reward might have been achieved without vaccination. Or, is it going to be, that we get vaccinated and in fact nothing changes. Still wear masks, still socially distant, still avoid crowds, still recommend against unnecessary travel, still do not eat out...if that is the end game of getting vaccinated I would have not gotten vaccinated.
We've been left on our own since this started - re tests, precautions, how it's transmitted (which, honestly, no one knew in the earliest days), when vaccinations would be available, how long they last, who gets them 1st, how to get them, and now, are they effective against new strains & is J&J safe. No one in either administration has given us straight answers. Maybe there aren't any.
I think the CDC & other medical agencies were caught on the back foot w/the high number of people refusing the vaccine plus new strains. It's hard enough predicting the efficacy of the vaccine if 90% of Americans get the vaccine. I think it's impossible if there's no clear number of vaxx v. un-unvaxxed & there's no bright line as to who is & isn't accepting them. The media needs to stop asking when; there is no single one-size-fits-all answer.
They would be more genuine and honest if they just came out and said "I don't know, we don't know" sometimes rather than bureaucratic answers that doesn't begin to answer the questions.
Yes, not getting Covid is a reward just like not getting polio, measles, & smallpox are rewards for those vaccines. Think back 10 months ago when the prevailing reasonable message was if we don't get a global vaccine, millions are going to die. So, yeah, not dying from Covid is my reason for getting a vaccine even if it means I might get it but it will be a milder case.
TV interviewers & select Congressmen badger the "expert" until s/he either can't get a word in or the interviewer sits back w/a self-satisfied smile. Fauci was headed to saying essentially there isn't a precise number for everyone everywhere when Rep. Jim Jordan ran out the clock. They probably would say "I don't know in every case" if permitted. For example, no one can tell Congress when "everyone can go to a funeral" as Jordan seemed determined to know. Throughout the pandemic, the archbishops of respective dioceses - not the CDC - created guidelines for catholic churches in their domain. Some followed the CDC; some didn't.
Truly, I think it's a can't win question. What is it anyone needs to know this morning? The CDC doesn't know when Europe is going to open up to Americans again so the spokesperson can't say "yes, you'll take your river cruise along the Rhine in August." Businesses & venues make fiscal decisions regardless of what the CDC recommends so the spokesperson can't say "Sure, plan that wedding for 300 outdoors in July." Seasonal business who depend on summer trade are likely to be open against recommendations or risk closing permanently.
I've been vocal about my low opinion of the so-called news. I don't blame the agency spokespeople as much as I blame the interviewers for asking stupid questions to fill air time (I feel the same way when they shove a mic in front of a man whose house w/3 kids in it just burned down & ask "how do you feel?"
BTW, I caught myself driving w/a mask on over the weekend. I was literally driving 2 streets away between appointments & forgot to take it off. 
BTW, I caught myself driving w/a mask on over the weekend. I was literally driving 2 streets away between appointments & forgot to take it off.
My wife told me yesterday she was in a store and realized after she was pretty far in that she forgot her mask. Beyond embarrassed she hurried out to her car to get it.
Literally, yeah, the vaccine is supposed to protect you from the virus. At the same time, it is all part of the process, if I am protected and eventually when everyone else is protected from the virus, the reward is we can shed the other protocols that protect us and get on with whatever it is we want to get on with. In about 10 days it will be 2 weeks from my second shot. I will always abide with mask wearing where it is required by businesses or organizations, but otherwise I won't be so worried about the mask.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/22/health/masks-outdoors-need/index.html
FWIW, Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN, answered questions about masks similar to the ones you've mentioned. Basically, he said "it depends." What it depends on is indoor v. outdoor, the #s & direction in your area, duration of time spent in a single place, & how close everyone is. The rate of transmission inside is 19% greater likely than outside. He uses the example of being outside w/o a mask is generally fine & some places have already lifted those restrictions. Based on the #s where he lives (Atlanta), indoor dining in a full capacity restaurant is a no, especially since the mask is removed to eat/drink. The bottom line question is "what is the likelihood of breathing someone else's air."
https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/22/health/masks-outdoors-need/index.html
FWIW, Dr. Sanjay Gupta of CNN, answered questions about masks similar to the ones you've mentioned. Basically, he said "it depends." What it depends on is indoor v. outdoor, the #s & direction in your area, duration of time spent in a single place, & how close everyone is. The rate of transmission inside is 19% greater likely than outside. He uses the example of being outside w/o a mask is generally fine & some places have already lifted those restrictions. Based on the #s where he lives (Atlanta), indoor dining in a full capacity restaurant is a no, especially since the mask is removed to eat/drink. The bottom line question is "what is the likelihood of breathing someone else's air."
Thank you! I am going to read the article now. That is community knowing what other members are thinking and responding to it!
I did hear Sanjay with Wolf on CNN about 5:30 or so and maybe he cliff noted that Q&A into the TV clip (I heard on radio). He essentially said he thought CDC was going to back off their outdoor mask mandate, which, I'm not a doctor, a virologist, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express, but that seems very logical. Off to follow your link now.
The bottom line question is "what is the likelihood of breathing someone else's air."
yes, and in reading it...no mention of 'viral load'. The last thing I want to do is inhale somebody else's load, oh jeez, but remember, we were told that it isn't just your exposure to other people, it is the time you are near them and the amount of exposure (re virus) you might inhale. I'm pretty sure, if I walk past somebody in the blink of an eye and neither of us have masks on and one of us has covid-19 that it won't spread. But that is me not staying in a Holiday Inn Express saying that. My layman's knowledge thinks science would back it up though. The time you are expose and the amount of viral load you can ingest is something that in passing outdoors isn't going to be much of an issue. Now if you are standing closely to somebody else in a confined space, that is totally different.
My wife's friend works at a large family owned furniture and appliance retailer here. About 2/3 of the employees are vaccinated. In an attempt to offer the vaccine to all employees, the owner was going arrange for a provider to come to the store and administer vaccine. The 1/3 of the employees who aren't vaccinated declined.
Here's a plan: invite all of those who refuse vaccines to ballgames, concerts and other "human sardine can" events and lock the doors and gates once they're in. Make them comfortable - by all means! Provide food, drink and accommodations for 2 - 6 weeks. The ones who survive and reemerge with the proper antibodies win! 😉
Brief encounters with an unmasked person passing you on the sidewalk or a hiking trail are very low risk, said Linsey Marr, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech and one of theworld’s leading expertson viral transmission. Viral particles quickly disperse in outdoor air, and the risk of inhaling aerosolized virus from a jogger or passers-by is negligible, she said. Even if a person coughs or sneezes outside as you walk by, the odds of you getting a large enough dose of virus to become infected remain low, she said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/22/well/live/covid-masks-outdoors.html
I see your CNN Sanjay Gupta and raise with a NYT Linsey Marr of VT.
Masking outdoors when alone or not near people is on the way out. Hopefully the CDC will soon and finally offer clear and reasonable guidance on this for everyone to hear. Or, because the risk is not zero, because maybe the risk is...oh I don't know like 1 out of a million (J&J vaccine reference), they might think that risk is too high and people should still mask outside. I think reasonable people will know what to do about masking outside and when they might need to still do so (like in a crowd of people perhaps).
Adding some additional quotes:
“I think it’s a bit too much to ask people to put the mask on when they go out for a walk or jogging or cycling,” saidDr. Muge Cevik, a clinical lecturer of infectious disease and medical virology at the University of St. Andrews School of Medicine in Scotland, where outdoor masking has never been required. “We’re in a different stage of the pandemic. I think outdoor masks should not have been mandated at all. It’s not where the infection and transmission occurs.”
“Let me go for my run, maskless. Mask in pocket,” tweetedDr. Nahid Bhadelia, an infectious diseases physician and the medical director of the special pathogens unit at Boston Medical Center. “Given how conservative I have been on my opinions all year, this should tell you how low risk is, in general, for outdoors transmission for contact over short periods — and lower still after vaccination. Keep the masks on you for when you are stationary in a crowd and headed indoors.”
“The results are that this risk is negligible in outdoor air if crowds and direct contact among people are avoided,” said Daniele Contini, senior author of the study and an aerosol scientist at the Institute of Atmospheric Sciences and Climate in Lecce, Italy.
Several states still have outdoor mask mandates including California, Oregon, Massachusetts and Rhode Island. New Hampshire lifted theirs and Connecticut is to follow suit next month. Several other states still require an outdoor mask to be worn when 6 foot distance can not be maintained (MI, NC, NJ, NY, PA to name a few). Maybe this is why I saw such broad outdoor mask wearing in parking lots and sidewalks, even when alone or just walking with a presumed spouse, on my Outer Banks trip. Seems quite unnecessary, but people being careful I suppose.
Chicago now has more supply than demand for the vaccines. And there are now sites where you can just show up and get one. No appointment needed. Things sure have changed in the last handful of weeks. And definitely in a good way! 😀 😀
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
Not much good at poker - perhaps should've spent some Covid indoor time improving my game. Anyway, think duration of contact has always been mentioned - just bottom of the list before some interviewer interrupted - & makes sense that a drive by on a bike isn't going to transmit much.
As to the OBX, they don't really associate w/the rest of NC - year-round residents are quite the outliers except for state $$$ to repair hurricane damage. When the pandemic hit, that one road in was closed to everyone but residents. The rest of the state has really had his & lows in cases so that may account for so many masks.
Also read recently that there's no evidence that it's transmitted in water. Hard to surf or swim in a mask & a good argument that pool/community clubs can open their pools this summer. Of course, if lounge chairs are squeezed tight around the pool, there may be some who keep masks on when lounging. Makes for an odd tan line...
J&J back on. Excerpt from NPR story:
The hold on Johnson & Johnson's vaccine was prompted by six reported cases of a severe blood clotting disorder called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, or CVST, among the 7.2 million shots of the one-dose vaccine administered in the United States. A 45-year-old woman died after receiving the vaccine.
At Friday's meeting, the CDC said it had found a few more cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, of which CVST cases are a subset. It has now identified 13 reported cases among women 18 to 49, and two cases among women 50 and older. No cases were found among men.
That means the rate of reported cases is 7 per million shots administered among women 18 to 49. The rate is 0.9 per million among women 50 and older.
Of the 15 cases of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome, 12 are of CVST, the rare clotting disorder that originally prompted the CDC's recommended hold.
Three of the 15 women have died, while seven remain hospitalized.
An expert advisory committee to the CDC decided April 14 that it needed more time to assess the data before recommending whether to restart the shots.
The European Union's drug regulator released its assessment this week that the shot's benefits "in preventing COVID-19 outweigh the risks of side effects." The agency determined that the vaccine can still be used without restrictions and that a warning should be added to its product information.
Some had criticized the U.S. pause.
Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University's School of Public Health, argued that given that most cases of the blood-clotting issue appear in women, the committee last week should have recommended continuing the pause only for women 18 to 49 and resumed it for everyone else.
"Keeping vaccine paused for everyone makes little sense," Jha tweeted, adding that the risk-benefit analysis for keeping the vaccine paused for everyone was "WAY off."
"We're still allowed to cross a busy street, or eat raw/uncooked fish, or stick our face in a fan. But we can't get a shot that protects ourselves and others from serious illness and allows a return to normal life — because it *might* have a 1-in-7-million fatal clotting issue," The Atlantic's Graeme Wood noted last week.
Yesterday an acquaintance of mine hugged me as she was leaving this establishment. She also hugged a mutual friend of ours. I was somewhat taken aback. So she leaves and our friend said to me exactly what I was thinking. She probably shouldn't have done that. My friend and I are both fully vaccinated. This girl that hugged us wasn't. I think she's morally opposed or something.
What do you do, push someone away? Do the fist bump thing? Hmm... 😏
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
If there wasn't enough Moderna and Pfizer to go around, then bringing J&J back for all makes sense.
Right now, there is plenty of vaccine. I agree with the stance to bring J&J back but women under 50 (or 55) should get one of the other ones unless there is a mitigating circumstances
CDC lifts outdoor mask recommendation for fully vaccinated people in most outdoor situations and for unvaccinated people in limited outdoor situations.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/pdfs/324153_choosingSaferActivities11.pdf
Dr Scott Gottlieb made some interesting statements the other day, including the US may never reach heard immunity, quoted in here:
If the US never reaches heard immunity and if the total vaccinated people does not or can not reach the desired %, how or when does indoor mask wearing go away? A question I asked eariler...if vaccinated people have protected themselves, at what point can we stop worrying about protecting others who do not care to protect themselves? Wearing the mask is primarily for protecting others. If we get into this summer, the only people who shouldn't be vaccinated would be the ones who do not want to get vaccinated. We still need to protect them?
What's interesting is that Dr. Scott Gottlieb is affiliated with Norwegian Cruise Lines & Royal Caribbean. A friend who is a travel agent (yes, they still exist) told me over the weekend that the industry is expecting lots of lessened restrictions in May - just when Gottlieb predicts a "collapse in new cases." Being FDA Commission in the previous administration aside, aren't there several conflicts of interest for this guy to be on the boards of Pfizer and a genetic testing, biotech, & healthcare tech companies while "contributing" for CNBC? I wouldn't trust his opinions to be anything other than what makes the most $$ for him.
If the US never reaches heard immunity and if the total vaccinated people does not or can not reach the desired %, how or when does indoor mask wearing go away? A question I asked eariler...if vaccinated people have protected themselves, at what point can we stop worrying about protecting others who do not care to protect themselves?
This is where I think the outright lies told by the previous administration & promulgated on Fox News, FB & all the other "scary" SM hold some responsibility. I don't have specific numbers, but the populations who "do not care to protect themselves" believe whatever "trusted" sources, including their evangelical pastors, told them about vaccinations - including that the vaccines were comprised of products of abortions.
Early in the pandemic, getting vaccines for the US population to achieve herd immunity was a primary goal. How many times did we hear the masks/social distancing/hand-washing/clorox wipes were a stop-gap measure until The Vaccine arrived! We'd be safe!!!
Somewhere along the line, the anti-vaxxers grew to include not just the fringe, but Fox news watchers. There's a documentary called "The Brainwashing of My Dad" about how isolated elderly independent-thinkers did a 180 on the political scale after becoming devotees of Rush & Fox.
Seems like the US shot itself in the foot w/the goal of herd immunity when it for some reason pushed lies about the vaccine. I don't think the original rational plan to vaccinate ever foresaw the enormous numbers of people refusing the vaccine.
And if you are African American you can get a shot regardless of age in certain neighborhoods. Hmm....
what's suspiscious about that?
I just got my second shot a week ago. I still plan to wear a mask around other people (stores, inside, etc) for a while at least as a courtesy. In truth, I would only do it for my own benefit in large crowds (sports and concerts). I am still going to wash my hands constantly and wipe with peroxide wipes after touching money, elevator buttons, door knobs, etc. I am anxiously waiting to see if we get to heard immunity. My county is close to 50% of adult population fully vaccinated and 70% with at least one shot, and we still get around 100 new cases each day out of a population of 1.1 million. I thought that we were supposed to get to herd immunity when about 70% are vaccinated, but we are not there yet.
