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What Does Vaccination Mean in Real Life?

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cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

I think this CNN blurb cites the falsehoods that have led adults who previously expected to be vaccinated to now refuse - creating the likelihood of not reaching herd immunity.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/28/health/covid-vaccine-myths-debunked/index.html

I don't think religious objections should've been included. A person's religious beliefs vis-a-vis refusing medical treatment has been upheld by SCOTUS & other courts for more than 100 years. These are people who would never have gotten vaccinated so it's disingenuous to cite that as a change in the trend toward non-vaccination.

 

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Topic starter Posted : April 29, 2021 10:12 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

@cyclone that is good.

In reading down through I read this:

Second, it's a mistake to think everyone who wants a vaccine can just get one. "Some people are on cancer chemotherapy. They can't be vaccinated -- they depend on the herd to protect them," Offit said.

Just passing along one note, one of my very best friends is currently undergoing chemotherapy.  He was advised and has received both his covid vaccine doses.  He took his chemo pills concurrently with his firsta and second dose vaccinated window.  Seemed like he did well.  Some versions of chemotherapy might be different so I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, but do know of this one case.

My wife has an auto-immune disease and she takes some medication that is also used to treat lymphoma.  Her doctor told her to stop taking the medicine for 2 weeks after the first vaccine dose, but told her if being off that medicine created more problems for her, she could take it again.  Being off the medicine made her miserable so she started taking it again and continued taking it through the second dose.  The doctor told her that was ok. I honestly think they didn't really know.  Maybe some medicines can negatively react with the vaccines that they know of, but I'm not sure they really know either way.

One of my anti-vaxer friends told me the other day he will be getting the vaccine next month or early June.  He had covid earlier this year and he said that he wants to have his anti-bodies protect him and then will get the vaccine later and in theory, assuming he is protected now (antibodies) waiting to get the vaccine until later will mean he is then protected later and won't require a booster or additional shot as soon as somebody who got the vaccine earlier.  Seems to make sense.

As for the religious objection, I agree on one hand that is is legitimate, but on the other hand, I also feel that some people use that as more of a convenient excuse rather than an actual strongly held reason of their faith.

 

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Posted : April 29, 2021 12:12 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
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Posted by: @nebish

@cyclone that is good.

In reading down through I read this:

Second, it's a mistake to think everyone who wants a vaccine can just get one. "Some people are on cancer chemotherapy. They can't be vaccinated -- they depend on the herd to protect them," Offit said.

Just passing along one note, one of my very best friends is currently undergoing chemotherapy.  He was advised and has received both his covid vaccine doses.  He took his chemo pills concurrently with his firsta and second dose vaccinated window.  Seemed like he did well.  Some versions of chemotherapy might be different so I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, but do know of this one case.

My wife has an auto-immune disease and she takes some medication that is also used to treat lymphoma.  Her doctor told her to stop taking the medicine for 2 weeks after the first vaccine dose, but told her if being off that medicine created more problems for her, she could take it again.  Being off the medicine made her miserable so she started taking it again and continued taking it through the second dose.  The doctor told her that was ok. I honestly think they didn't really know.  Maybe some medicines can negatively react with the vaccines that they know of, but I'm not sure they really know either way.

One of my anti-vaxer friends told me the other day he will be getting the vaccine next month or early June.  He had covid earlier this year and he said that he wants to have his anti-bodies protect him and then will get the vaccine later and in theory, assuming he is protected now (antibodies) waiting to get the vaccine until later will mean he is then protected later and won't require a booster or additional shot as soon as somebody who got the vaccine earlier.  Seems to make sense.

As for the religious objection, I agree on one hand that is is legitimate, but on the other hand, I also feel that some people use that as more of a convenient excuse rather than an actual strongly held reason of their faith.

 

agree- immunosuppressed patients need the vaccine more

I also agree about the religion thing. If someone's religion is truly against getting the vaccine, well, OK then.

I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation of why getting a vaccine would be against a religion. 

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Posted : April 29, 2021 12:45 pm
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
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@stormyrider

The religious belief doesn't have to be reasonable; the objector just has to believe it as part of their recognized/established faith (Christian Science, Jehovah's witness not Joe's Chapel of Snake Oil membership of 5).

 

 

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Topic starter Posted : April 29, 2021 2:21 pm
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@nebish

Sorry about your friend & your wife's health.

I will spare everyone my opinion of "news," but I did think this link highlighted some of the most common objections. 

One standing objection to any vaccine for children is the fear that it causes autism.

There's a private 300-student school in Miami requiring teachers NOT to get vaccinated because the owner/leader says "there are thousands of cases where being around vaccinated harm unvaccinated" but doesn't provide the source of that info. When the school year ends, teachers are free to be vaccinated but there may not be a place for them on next year's faculty.

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Topic starter Posted : April 29, 2021 2:34 pm
nebish liked
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
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Posted by: @nebish

@cyclone that is good.

In reading down through I read this:

Second, it's a mistake to think everyone who wants a vaccine can just get one. "Some people are on cancer chemotherapy. They can't be vaccinated -- they depend on the herd to protect them," Offit said.

Just passing along one note, one of my very best friends is currently undergoing chemotherapy.  He was advised and has received both his covid vaccine doses.  He took his chemo pills concurrently with his firsta and second dose vaccinated window.  Seemed like he did well.  Some versions of chemotherapy might be different so I'm not trying to make a blanket statement, but do know of this one case. 

I'll second this, I'm not sure where this misinformation came from. I know someone, in his 70s, going through chemo as well and he received his COVID vaxx.

I got my 2nd Moderna vax on Monday. Arm felt sore and was a little wonky on Tuesday, but otherwise fine. Wife was sick most of Tuesday from the same.

Next step is to buy plane tickets to see my parents.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : April 29, 2021 2:40 pm
nebish liked
nebish
(@nebish)
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Posted by: @cyclone88

I will spare everyone my opinion of "news," but I did think this link highlighted some of the most common objections. 

Right, I thought it was fine...but you know me, I like picking up on things in the news and bringing it here anyway.

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Posted : April 29, 2021 2:48 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
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@cyclone88

thanks, forgot about Christian Science, etc. I can see that

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Posted : April 29, 2021 3:17 pm
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Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

The religion angle is interesting. I saw a couple of segments on the news about people of certain faiths (I want to say Jewish was one of them) wondering if it was okay for them to get vaccinated and still adhere to their beliefs. Some went to their religious leader asking if it was okay due to what was in the vaccine and if it was okay to have it put into their bodies. In both of the stories I saw, it was considered acceptable given the circumstances. I thought that was definitely a good thing.

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : April 29, 2021 7:26 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
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Last evening my wife and I went to our local watering hole to watch The Kentucky Derby. Ran into this guy that used to work there. He joined us. And the virus topic came up. He's shaking hands with guys, hugging, etc. He hadn't seen these people in a long time. His Na Na (grandmother) came up in the conversation. She is 95. Hasn't been vaccinated. He can't go see her. I asked what the big deal was since he was. He told me hadn't been. Well no wonder your mother won't let you see her. 🙄 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 2, 2021 7:33 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
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I was in a local CVS yesterday to pick up a prescription and the pharmacy technician asked me if I wanted a shot. I don't need one. There were two people there. Nobody waiting. Not exactly what to think of this. Is it good because it is available? Or is it bad because people can get it and aren't doing so?

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 2, 2021 7:40 am
nebish
(@nebish)
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I just was at CVS this morning as well!  There was one person there for his shot.  Their signage said appointments were still necessary and no walk ups were accepted.  I thought that might be changing as it has in other vaccination sites. 

We've just seen what is happening and about to happen.  The supply of vaccine hasn't just caught up but it has exceeded the US demand. 

From NYT:

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said on Saturday about 146.2 million people have received at least one dose of a Covid-19 vaccine, including about 103.4 million people who have been fully vaccinated by Johnson & Johnson’s single-dose vaccine or the two-dose series made by Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna.

Providers are administering about 2.55 million doses per day on average, about a 25 percent decrease from the peak of 3.38 million reported on April 13.

2.5 million per day is still a lot of people if you project that out, but that number is going to keep decreasing.

I think about 25% of our population is 18-and-younger.  And only ages 16 and up right now are authorized to get vaccinated currently.  So even if every single adult 19-older got vaccinated in this country, we'd only be at 75%. 

 

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Posted : May 2, 2021 1:03 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
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Canada is holding the 300,000 of their J&J vaccines that just arrived due to a possible quality control issue with the Baltimore plant the vaccines were produced at.

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Posted : May 2, 2021 1:06 pm
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

So, most businesses in NY/NJ/CT will be allowed to re-open 5/19. The NYC subway will resume 24/7 service on 5/17. Types of businesses specifically cited are restaurants, offices, retail stores, theaters, museums, barber shops, amusement parks, & gyms and fitness centers. No mention of entertainment venues like arenas & bars.

OK. The businesses still have to abide by 6' social distancing so they can open w/no capacity cap except the size of their space. I can see that working for a 5-story dept store but not a restaurant. Broadway has said it isn't going to open because it's not when shows typically open & they'd have to space out the audience & skip seats (which makes it about 50% capacity on a tight margin business anyway).

I'm mystified as to how the subway is going to enforce 6' social distancing or maybe that's exempt as an essential service.

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds in NYC. Summer is when everyone who can escapes the city & if given the option, my guess is employees will work from home at least until fall 2021. I assume some agency is tracking how many business who can re-open actually do, the number of employees returning to the office especially since large corps. have already downsized their space, and other economic impacts. I'm sure the # of cases & duration will be tracked.

This post was modified 6 days ago by cyclone88
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Topic starter Posted : May 3, 2021 3:06 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
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Posted by: @cyclone88

 

I'm mystified as to how the subway is going to enforce 6' social distancing or maybe that's exempt as an essential service.

 

I have thought the same thing about Chicago, especially the trains. One line in particular given those who typically take them. Unless they direct people to certain cars on a train I have no idea how it could be done. And our transit agency would have to staff a lot more and they won't want to pay for that. Plus two lines go directly to the airports and drop you off there. 

To a lesser extent the buses as well, since they pretty much go to every corner of the city. As offices open more people are going to go downtown which are the buses I take. Not to stereotype but I would assume more business people will have gotten vaccinated. 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 4, 2021 9:35 am
cyclone88 liked
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@lee

Agree re transportation for both buses & trains. Chicago, like NYC, isn't as industry-divided as one might think. There are colleges, hospitals, museums, & retailers mixed in w/office buildings and residential buildings so its entirely possible for unvaxxed & vaxxed to take public transportation together. I also don't see NYC riders taking direction from anyone who isn't a transit cop. If they're late, they're going to squeeze in before the door shuts. I feel a bit like I did after 9/11 - people didn't become more polite; they were tense and hostile.

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Topic starter Posted : May 4, 2021 1:16 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
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Posted by: @cyclone88

@lee

Agree re transportation for both buses & trains. Chicago, like NYC, isn't as industry-divided as one might think. There are colleges, hospitals, museums, & retailers mixed in w/office buildings and residential buildings so its entirely possible for unvaxxed & vaxxed to take public transportation together. I also don't see NYC riders taking direction from anyone who isn't a transit cop. If they're late, they're going to squeeze in before the door shuts. I feel a bit like I did after 9/11 - people didn't become more polite; they were tense and hostile.

I rarely take trains unless I have to. I had forgotten all about people cramming into them at the last second in both NY & Chi. I usually only take one going to Comiskey Park and people do cram in there but it might not be that populated for now.

And you are correct in both cities, there are certainly a lot of people that aren't in sky scraper offices. There is a university district if you will in downtown Chicago. There are discussions and disagreements about mandating students be fully vaccinated before allowing them onto campus. I'm sure some young people just won't do it. 

And of course hospitals. There is one route I take and almost everyone on it is a Northwestern Hospital nurse. One would think they would be safe but who knows? I've read stories about people working in the medical field that won't get vaccinated.

This post was modified 5 days ago by Lee

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 5, 2021 7:31 am
cyclone88 liked
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

I've flown for the 4th time since covid started and when you talk about cramming into subway and train cars - now cramming into plane aisles is back. This was the first flight where the crew didn't tell people to stay seated until the row in front of you stands up and leaves. This flight, as soon as the plane gets to the gate all these people were in a hurry to get into the aisle, stand and wait. Things returning to normal on planes. 

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Posted : May 5, 2021 8:31 am
cyclone88 liked
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

My wife just sent me a message. She got her second shot at Wrigley Field. Pfizer. She went in early and was out in 10 minutes. I think it's still National Guard but they are leaving Chicago soon. 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 5, 2021 4:21 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

Been over 24 hours since my wife's second dose of Pfizer and she is fine. Although she did whine about her arm being sore. I told her to quit belly aching. I thought women were supposed to have a high pain tolerance. 😛 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Posted : May 6, 2021 5:18 pm
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