The Allman Brothers Band
Notifications
Clear all

Opinions on the shut down?

Page 1 / 5
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

What I take from every shut down is frustration at the fact they have to pass continuing resolutions iat all. Do their damn job and get a budget, pass the appropriations and get it done by October 1st rather than all these CRs they are faced with. That is what makes me mad about the whole thing.

Quote
Topic starter Posted : January 2, 2019 6:01 pm
BrerRabbit
(@brerrabbit)
Universal Peach

It's blackmail.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 2, 2019 9:26 pm
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

These shutdown really piss me off. There has to be a better way to do things, especially since congress has always offered back pay to affected workers, so no money is saved.

My dad passed away on December 21st, the first day of the shutdown. It has been really difficult to get everything that needs to get done accomplished. I took the day off work to take my mom around only to find the social security office closed and the VA short staffed. Luckily the VA cemetary was open, but only because during previous budgets they funded the VA for 2 years. Anyone who thinks these "non-essential" workers are not essential haven't had to deal with a death of a veteran during a shutdown (and holidays).

Oh, and the national parks are getting trashed (literally) during the shutdown. I hate for people to not be able to visit a national park on a long planned vacation because of a government shutdown, but you can't operate a park without restrooms, trash pickup (since people obviously don't have enough sense to take trash out with them), and rangers on patrol to keep idiots from vandalizing the place. These are essential workers.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 2, 2019 9:54 pm
BoytonBrother
(@boytonbrother)
Member

Sorry for your loss 2112. May his memory be a blessing.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 3, 2019 4:18 am
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach

Sorry for your loss 2112. May his memory be a blessing.

X2

Yes - thoughts with you & your family.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 3, 2019 12:43 pm
StratDal
(@stratdal)
Peach Extraordianire

My condolences 2112. May you and your loved ones find peace.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 3, 2019 2:26 pm
WaitinForRain
(@waitinforrain)
A Peach Supreme

Trump voters: I hope you get even more of what you asked for.
This is SO good for you!

have MORE!

bwahahaha.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 3, 2019 6:57 pm
BoytonBrother
(@boytonbrother)
Member

My opinion is that all politicians in Washington are legends in their own minds only, and enjoy having all eyes on them instead of an entertainer.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 3:56 am
crazyjoe
(@crazyjoe)
Ultimate Peach

Why not leave it down for the next 2 years? Limit the damage this jerk and his disgusting criminal family, and both Republicans and Democrats could get to work saving and restoring values and respect to our nation. Why can't Congress and Senate do some kind of emergency action or something to arrange for any Federal workers still working to be paid? If It got vetoed by the "president ", that would be on him.... The Folks out of work, might just be casualties of Donald Dump''s way of doing business.........Peace........joe

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 5:59 am
BrerRabbit
(@brerrabbit)
Universal Peach

Sorry to hear your dad died 2112. plus Insult to injury dealing with the failed bureaucracy.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 6:01 am
crazyjoe
(@crazyjoe)
Ultimate Peach

Indeed Much Peace to You and Your Family 2112, I don't understand life, probably best that way........joe

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 6:06 am
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

Thanks for the kind words everyone, although I didn't mean for my experience to hijack this thread. I just wanted to share that this little game between the president and congress has more consequences than many people realize.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 11:34 am
StratDal
(@stratdal)
Peach Extraordianire

It's never a good idea to shut the government down for any reason.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 1:24 pm
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach

"Trump Claims Most Furloughed Federal Workers Are Rooting For Him On Wall Funding"

Let's get real. He makes this $hit up at a podium with no evidence to support his statements. I'd be curious of those who are not getting paid are buying into his rhetoric. So...someone can go w/out their paycheck & agree with Trump for who knows how long only to support a wall that Mexico is supposed to pay for. Makes perfectly good sense and logical...right? Only in the world of Trump's little mind.

Trump is now saying he could shutdown for years. Yes, Donald. We believe everything you say.

In the meantime his cabinet members are slated for $10,000 raises.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-shutdown-furloughed-workers_us_5c2fc50ce4b0bcb4c25bab28

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 1:54 pm
OriginalGoober
(@originalgoober)
Peach Extraordianire

If you pulled 100 Americans 80% would approve of national security investments. 30% like Trump. Right now politics matters more.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 3:07 pm
StratDal
(@stratdal)
Peach Extraordianire

If you pulled 100 Americans 80% would approve of national security investments. 30% like Trump. Right now politics matters more.

"Pulled" and "100 Americans"? Yep. You truly epitomize our president's base supporters.

Some advice OG. "A smart person knows what to say. A wise person knows when to say it."

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 3:17 pm
StratDal
(@stratdal)
Peach Extraordianire

Wasn't Mexico supposed to pay for the wall?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/politics/trump-border-wall-national-emergency-declaration/index.html

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 3:25 pm
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach

If you pulled 100 Americans 80% would approve of national security investments. 30% like Trump. Right now politics matters more.

"pulled" vs "polled" but we get the gist.

Curious why you used the term "national security investments"? Most people don't have a problem with that. But what you're referring to & what Trump insists upon are two different things. Why didn't you use use the word "wall"? That would be too easy, right? Because if you follow polls, you would know that the American people don't want a wall.

But we get it. President Limbaugh & VP Coulter insist upon that beautiful wall even though lackey Trump had previously agreed to a budget deal before the real prez & vice prez scared little Don.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-americans-support-border-wall_us_5c2e9aaae4b05c88b70798d1

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 3:50 pm
OriginalGoober
(@originalgoober)
Peach Extraordianire

Immigration reform should of happened decades ago. Trump understands this. Its time to get a deal once and for all for our own good. Both sides will need to compromise but the wall will be erected where its needed as its a matter of national security. Hoping some bad guys wont cross is the democrats plan. Someone smart said hope is not a strategy.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 4:23 pm
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

National security investments and a wall are two completely different things. Not sure what your point is?

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 4, 2019 5:28 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

I do think that immigration policy can be placed among national security. National security doesn't only deal with threats and challenges abroad, it also can cover negative and damaging aspects of illegal immigration.

I think Trump isn't drawing the parallel very well and it is clear he is trying to appeal and convince more people why the wall is needed, which as this point it is such a lightening rod even those who do not follow politics likely have an opinion on it.

My position, as it always has been, is more physical barriers where DHS and ICE say they are needed should be put in place adding more hurdles and difficulty to those trying to enter illegally. Trump has his position, I have mine. They are similar, but not the same. I would've been happy had they followed the Secure Fence Act of 2006 as originally passed.

And, no hijack seen 2112. I hope you and your family are doing as well as you can given the circumstances. Check your PMs.

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : January 5, 2019 8:06 am
OriginalGoober
(@originalgoober)
Peach Extraordianire

National security investments and a wall are two completely different things. Not sure what your point is?

The wall resistance is more of a liberal idea that a big scary wall will clash with the American concept living in a liberals head. They dont like the wall similar to not liking an assult rifle. The image is scary bad for them.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 5, 2019 10:34 am
gina
 gina
(@gina)
Member

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-threatens-shutdown-of-%E2%80%98months-or-even-years%E2%80%99-over-border-wall-says-he-could-declare-national-emergency-to-get-it-built/ar-BBROqDg?li=BBnb7Kz

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/millions-face-delayed-tax-refunds-cuts-to-food-stamps-as-white-house-scrambles-to-deal-with-shutdown%E2%80%99s-consequences/ar-BBROykA?li

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/424022-pence-white-house-officials-meet-congressional-staffers-amid-effort

Comments:

1) Months, years of shutdown will impact the 880,000 federal workers who will not be paid till the shutdown ends. Many will not be able to meet rent/mortgage, car loan and other obligations They can become poor, homeless and hungry. Think of a TSA worker becoming poor, homeless and hungry. if you think the abuse at the airport is bad, imagine them marching on Washington to get their retro-active pay.

2) Tax refunds will be delayed. Imagine millions of people who need that money like teachers who only get paid for 10 months per year and use their tax refunds to pay their bills for the other two months.

3) Deep cuts to food stamps. How many millions of people are poor enough and collecting? Imaging millions of hungry people. After about a week of NO food, they will be angry. Week two they will be organized, and guess where they will be heading by week 3 after they have looted some stores to get food. On busses to Washington? I think so. Who will pay for that? The same people who helped pay for the busses for that caravan of Central Americans, I'll just say democratic sympathizers, that way I am not accusing a political party.

4) Who else is effected by the shutdown, look at the agencies. NASA, HUD (Section 8 payments), etc. and no new social security claims will be processed. So people waiting years to get that check, will have to wait longer. How happy will they be?

Opinions on the shut down?

1. It must end soon.

2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

3. Labor - manpower to build the wall.

a) early work release for prisoners who are in prison on non violent offenses, let them do some time building the wall, and live in man-cave tents/trailers set up for the workers.

b) volunteer army corp of engineer workers.

c) volunteer any ex military who want to help out.

d) any unemployed people who would like a paycheck , they too can live in tents and/or trailers. Those with wives, children could have their wives and kids stay in a trailer with them. I know you are thinking what about sewage from these remote locations. The army corp of engineers can set up some solar powered wells for water and cesspool functions.

Trump has always said THINK BIG. If we don't this country can quickly become a third world country.

[Edited on 1/5/2019 by gina]

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 5, 2019 11:03 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

Sometimes I think you are totally oblivious to what your statements sound like to others!

First of all, we have a borrowing problem already, more is not the answer! Second of all, the two countries you named aren't exactly viewed in the best of light right now, so the US becoming more aligned, or indebted to those countries wouldn't go over well with just about everyone. Bad suggestion.

Nobody can escape what Trump said hundreds of times (or more?) that Mexico was going to pay for it. USMCA has no direct mechanism to pay for the wall as Trump is asserting, and it hasn't been passed yet. If Trump wants to try and make that case, he is not connecting the dots at all - because it would be impossible to actually show or prove where USMCA money (savings or taxes or whatever) are directly going towards the wall in the vein of Mexico paying for it.

I have long supported additional barriers and have a different idea on what or how more border security can be done than Trump does. So I never felt connected to his wall claim and never believed or understood how he could explain Mexico would pay for it. It worked at campaign rallies by someone who didn't expect to get elected. When the rubber meets the road it goes nowhere.

So all these attempts at how the wall can be funded in the shadow of Mexico is supposed to be paying for it easily falls on deaf ears and allows his opponents to continually ask "why isn't Mexico paying for it?"

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : January 6, 2019 6:03 am
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

We will find out Monday, but I hope the people that got together over the weekend can find a way forward. Trump saying he could keep the government shut down months or years is quite reckless. He needs to compromise and the Democrats should compromise. That is how things are supposed to work. Trump just doesn't get how it works yet (2 years in). Both sides lose a little face, get a little what you want and move on to the next issue(s).

ReplyQuote
Topic starter Posted : January 6, 2019 6:07 am
muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Member

The assaults, robberies, rapes and murders of American citizens by illegal alien criminals in addition to the free flow of deadly drugs, far outweighs this current minor shutdown.

The wall will be built.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 6, 2019 9:41 am
gina
 gina
(@gina)
Member

2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

Sometimes I think you are totally oblivious to what your statements sound like to others!

First of all, we have a borrowing problem already, more is not the answer! Second of all, the two countries you named aren't exactly viewed in the best of light right now, so the US becoming more aligned, or indebted to those countries wouldn't go over well with just about everyone. Bad suggestion.

Nobody can escape what Trump said hundreds of times (or more?) that Mexico was going to pay for it. USMCA has no direct mechanism to pay for the wall as Trump is asserting, and it hasn't been passed yet. If Trump wants to try and make that case, he is not connecting the dots at all - because it would be impossible to actually show or prove where USMCA money (savings or taxes or whatever) are directly going towards the wall in the vein of Mexico paying for it.

I have long supported additional barriers and have a different idea on what or how more border security can be done than Trump does. So I never felt connected to his wall claim and never believed or understood how he could explain Mexico would pay for it. It worked at campaign rallies by someone who didn't expect to get elected. When the rubber meets the road it goes nowhere.

So all these attempts at how the wall can be funded in the shadow of Mexico is supposed to be paying for it easily falls on deaf ears and allows his opponents to continually ask "why isn't Mexico paying for it?"

Yes we do have a borrowing problem and since all we can do in regard to the debt we owe China is make payments on the interest, we need to look at other big financiers who could help. We cannot balance our budget at this time, everybody knows that. I just found out recently that there is no money in the social security trust fund, it is backed by US Treasury notes, but there is no gold or cash to back the fund up.

Saudi has tons of money. They help us out with oil, and in return we provide security for their country, doing major arms deals with them. We even overlooked the consensus that Prince Salman was allegedly involved in the murder of a US journalist. (Jamal Kashoggi) and they are strategic partners with us. There is no reason we could not secure 5 Billion from them.

As to Russia, we are on good footing with them. Others tried and still do, to taint the good-will relationship we have with them. Putin is a good, fair, moral man and would consider helping us out. They are a world power who has money, why can't we do a deal with them?

Indonesia also has tons of money, we need to look at nations that have money to invest, and get some from them.

If Mexico will not pay for it, then we need to look at other sources because most agree that the wall is needed for border security and national security.

[Edited on 1/6/2019 by gina]

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 6, 2019 9:53 am
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

Sometimes I think you are totally oblivious to what your statements sound like to others!

First of all, we have a borrowing problem already, more is not the answer! Second of all, the two countries you named aren't exactly viewed in the best of light right now, so the US becoming more aligned, or indebted to those countries wouldn't go over well with just about everyone. Bad suggestion.

Nobody can escape what Trump said hundreds of times (or more?) that Mexico was going to pay for it. USMCA has no direct mechanism to pay for the wall as Trump is asserting, and it hasn't been passed yet. If Trump wants to try and make that case, he is not connecting the dots at all - because it would be impossible to actually show or prove where USMCA money (savings or taxes or whatever) are directly going towards the wall in the vein of Mexico paying for it.

I have long supported additional barriers and have a different idea on what or how more border security can be done than Trump does. So I never felt connected to his wall claim and never believed or understood how he could explain Mexico would pay for it. It worked at campaign rallies by someone who didn't expect to get elected. When the rubber meets the road it goes nowhere.

So all these attempts at how the wall can be funded in the shadow of Mexico is supposed to be paying for it easily falls on deaf ears and allows his opponents to continually ask "why isn't Mexico paying for it?"

Yes we do have a borrowing problem and since all we can do in regard to the debt we owe China is make payments on the interest, we need to look at other big financiers who could help. We cannot balance our budget at this time, everybody knows that. I just found out recently that there is no money in the social security trust fund, it is backed by US Treasury notes, but there is no gold or cash to back the fund up.

Saudi has tons of money. They help us out with oil, and in return we provide security for their country, doing major arms deals with them. We even overlooked the consensus that Prince Salman was allegedly involved in the murder of a US journalist. (Jamal Kashoggi) and they are strategic partners with us. There is no reason we could not secure 5 Billion from them.

As to Russia, we are on good footing with them. Others tried and still do, to taint the good-will relationship we have with them. Putin is a good, fair, moral man and would consider helping us out. They are a world power who has money, why can't we do a deal with them?

Indonesia also has tons of money, we need to look at nations that have money to invest, and get some from them.

If Mexico will not pay for it, then we need to look at other sources because most agree that the wall is needed for border security and national security.

[Edited on 1/6/2019 by gina]

Wow, did I miss that it was opposite day today or something?

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 6, 2019 10:00 am
muleman1994
(@muleman1994)
Member

Obama supported border security:

“'We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked...'” Barrack Obama, 2005"

Obama's full quote at the time: "We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country."

"We all agree on the need to better secure the border and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants," Obama added. "We are a generous and welcoming people, here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law."

Obama went on to advocate for imposing a "hefty fine" on those already in the country illegally, as well as tighter border security measures.

BTW – Obama has a wall around his mansion in DC.

Hillary supported border security:

At a campaign stop in November 2015, Clinton told a crowd: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders."

Schumer supported border security:

Here's what he said in 2009:

"The first of these seven principles is that illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple," Schumer said. "When we use phrases like 'undocumented workers,' we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose."

"People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens, and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the United States legally," Schumer continued. "Any immigration solution must recognize that we must do as much as we can to gain operational control of our borders as soon as possible."

Pelosi has a wall around her home in California.

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 6, 2019 10:24 am
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

There you go making it sound like the only way to keep illegals out is using a wall. That is nonsense.

Oh, and Obama does not have a wall around his house (other than a small privacy wall around a patio). Take a look at this photo from the street.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-compares-border-wall-wall-around-obama-home-n953166

ReplyQuote
Posted : January 6, 2019 11:03 am
Page 1 / 5
Share: