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ABB New Orleans Jazz Fest 2000

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robslob
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I thought Dickey was gone by 2000 but I must have been mistaken.  Was he fired not long after this show?  Anyway, not much footage of the band with Derek and Dickey on guitar so I thought this was pretty cool.

 
Posted : November 25, 2022 2:04 pm
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robertdee
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That is a cool version of the song . Never saw that version before. Yes not much Derek and Dickey footage around.  Dickey is playing his back up Mary Kay Strat. His number one then was his old 1956 tobacco-burst hard tail Strat.  The band did a spring tour not long after the Beacon and this little tour we see here  ended in Atlanta. At the end of that show some of the guys, I think Kirk West may was one, heard Butch Trucks say as he left the stage " I'm never going to play with that SOB Dickey Betts again". Butch told his wife he was leaving the ABB. But she had heard from Gregg's then wife Gregg was quiting the Allman Brothers Band. 

There was a summer shed tour already planned, I already had tickets to several shows... so Butch called Gregg and discovered Gregg Allman was quiting the band and it was mostly because of Dickey's drinking, bullying and forcing his latest songs into the band's sets and Gregg thought they were not very good songs. 

So Butch floated the idea that instead of us quiting, let's vote Dickey out. Gregg said "What about his contract?" Butch said the founding members didn't have a contract including Gregg himself. The founding members owned the band and didn't need contracts. But Butch said we can vote a man off the stage if he is not doing right. 

Gregg said "Let me sleep on it". The next day they got Jaimoe on the phone and Jaimoe was opposed to an outright firing and said the only way an original member can get out is to quit or die. Faced with Gregg and Butch quitting, Jaimoe agreed to lay Dickey off for the summer with instructions to get sober and clean and we'll get together this fall and see where to go next. Dickey received this news via his fax machine. And Butch, I have it hear in my notes, told the media that Dickey was an alcoholic and drug addict and they can't take it anymore. Dickey is getting worse like several times before and this time they aren't going down that road with him again. 

Dickey of course became angry and hurt and sued the band and even charged the band with having him impersonated as Jimmy Herring was playing Dickey's solos 

This was settled in arbitration without going to court with Dickey receiving over a million dollars and Dickey got up and walked out at the close of the meeting. Jaimoe looked at the others and said " I guess Dickey just quit". Then it was okay to replace Dickey in Jaimoe's mind and Butch offered Jimmy Herring the gig but Jimmy was a fan of Dickey and said he couldn't be the first person to replace a living member of the band. 

Gregg said he would offer the job to Warren Haynes and if Warren refuses we will just fold the band and Gregg would go with his solo band. But Warren accepted and the band stayed together until 2014. Derek and Warren wanted out in 2009 but Butch talked them into giving him another 5 years. In 2014 Butch again wanted another 5 years but even Gregg this time was ready to move on to other projects and the band was folded in 2014 and never played again.  

If anyone disagrees with this narrative chime in. I went over my notes from this disappointing period of the band's history and I think I got everything correct. 

Well Butch wanted all Dickey Betts songs removed and they did eventually start doing some shows with no Dickey songs. But that didn't hold up. The last several years of the band's existence they played a few Dickey songs every night. Ramblin' Man was the one that was never heard again after Dickey left. 

And Butch mentioned about 2006 or so he didn't like the songs Dickey brought in for Brothers and Sisters. It changed the band into a country/western swing bag too much and Butch was irritated at the modern country bands and you could tell they were influenced by Dickey's songs and Butch didn't care for that at all. Twice Butch told the press that after Duane died that is when they should have fired Dickey and hired new guitar players. I remember about 1978 Eric Clapton said he would have replaced Duane on lead and slide guitar if the ABB had asked but they never reached out. 

EC wouldn't have stayed long in my view and it would have put too much focus of Clapton. Don't see that working well or lasting long. But there likey would have been some interesting shows. 

 
Posted : November 25, 2022 4:13 pm
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Stephen
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Good post, this is the way I too recall it all happening - why didn’t they take Dickey aside & say hey man, let’s turn it down, we don’t need all this volume, your rig’s too loud, we’re getting blasted offstage, the sound is too shrill....instead of the fax/pink slip -

all a long time gone now - I love the ABB, that motto still holds strong here on the boards

clapton was all strung out on heroin & off the road when Duane died, didn’t return until the live one came out in 73 w/Townsend Winwood et al, so about a 2-3 year rehab - yeah that simply wouldn’t’ve worked, nor would it have w/anyone

Never cared a lot for the covers they did in lieu of Dickey’s songs, but it was a beautiful 14 year run w/Many Amazing Shows - 

the Brothers really pushed for that Erie 2005 show to be released - have you heard that one b4? Mansfield 2004 IL a longtime fave, same Meadowbrook show the next night

This post was modified 1 year ago 2 times by Stephen
 
Posted : November 25, 2022 7:30 pm
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@robertdee:  Tremendous history lesson!  Thank You........

 
Posted : November 26, 2022 10:36 am
robslob
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@stephen:  I bought Erie, PA 2005 after it was posted on this website that band members were nearly unanimously raving about the show when they left the stage.  And yes, it's VERY good.  Don't Think Twice w/ Susan is the best one I have EVER heard, Jessica just off the charts, a GREAT Mountain Jam, and Gregg singing The Band's The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down is just priceless.  I don't think they did that tune very often.

 
Posted : November 26, 2022 10:38 am
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robertdee
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@robslob I remember about 1995 or so on Butch's blog he was angry about a 1991 release on Polygram titled 1969-1979 A Decade of Hits. The package sold over 2 million copies. Far more than the new albums the band was releasing in the 1990's and Hitting The Note in 2003. Just one new album from that period sold enough to go Gold ( 500,000 or more copies) and that was Where It All Begins in 1994. 

Butch was very upset about that compilation 1991 best hits album because Gregg Allman and Dickey Betts made over a million dollars in song writing royalties and because all the tracks were Capricorn era tracks, Butch got NOTHING!!! Only song writers in the band made money. Elmore James and Marshall Sehorn made money for One Way Out and Duane Allman made money for Little Martha ( their estates) and Butch got NOTHING. 

Butch Trucks argued that he deserved a writing credit for In Memory of Elizabeth and one that wasn't Capricorn that wasn't included here. Reach of the Sky's Madness From The West. Butch said Dickey wouldn't share those songs with him but Butch wrote and charted drum patterns and solos for both. 

I wrote Butch on his blog and asked why he didn't go to Duane Allman in 1970? He answered and said he did but Duane sided with Dickey and said whoever brings an original song in gets the credit. What we do to it later is arrangements. And Butch agreed that what he and Berry Oakley did to Gregg's Whipping Post changed that song more than Gregg was expecting. 

Butch said he was going to find ways that allowed him to make money other than playing live off the band. 

I think that likey was the beginning of Butch becoming so anti-Betts and Dickey would vote "no" to Butch's attempts to have the band involved in Butch Trucks business ideas. After Dickey was gone those business deals may have been how Butch ended up in such a deep hole with the IRS. 

Gregg was tired of Dickey bullying and what went down between Allen Woody and Dickey. Kirk West saw Dickey with a knife behind his back in his hand when he and Woody were talking it out. And Gregg thought Dickey ignored his new songs while putting Dickey songs into the late 90's set lists that were not very good. 

I thought J. J. Alley ( Later One Stop Bebop) was okay. 

But Gregg softened about Dickey and began playing Southbound in his solo shows which resulted in Dickey and Gregg having phone conversations after not speaking for over 15 years. Apparently Butch never softened on Dickey. I remember Butch's blog front page had a very familiar picture of Duane, Gregg, Jaimoe, Berry and Butch standing together at the top and I knew Dickey is in that picture on the far right but Butch had Dickey's image removed somehow. Must have done it with his computer. It was a five man band but this time Dickey is missing:)

This post was modified 1 year ago by robertdee
 
Posted : November 26, 2022 11:36 am
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robertdee said: “Duane sided with Dickey and said whoever brings an original song in gets the credit. What we do to it later is arrangements.”

Yep.  

I love BT’s playing but arranging ain’t composing.  Butch could’ve taking a page from Mickey Hart’s Planet Drum maybe.  After Betts a lot of years went by when BT could’ve written some tunes.

I heard Springsteen say on a chat show how being in a band for 40 or 50 years is like working with a group of people from your high school for the rest of your life.  Hell I don’t go to those reunions for a reason!

Recently a long time friend went beyond what I can be around.  It happens.

 
Posted : November 26, 2022 1:05 pm
Stephen
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And yet I was always under the impression that the band shared in the wealth when Rambling Man hit - it’s just my recollection - Butch chided Gregg during the 1st breakup, saying what about those checks you cashed for Rambling Man….(paraphrasing)

Betts & the band saw to it that residuals from Rambling Man went to BO’s estate 

you know what they say - there are sharks, con artists & shysters out there……then there’s the music biz

This post was modified 1 year ago by Stephen
 
Posted : November 26, 2022 3:21 pm
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That songwriting royalty thing is a touchy subject.  I know that some famous bands (sorry names elude me) have given equal songwriting credit to everyone who played on the original recording even if only one band member had the original song idea.  And to me that sounds more fair, but it's not the way Duane Allman saw things. After all, does anyone think Berry Oakley's bass part is not an integral part of Whipping Post?  Oakley got no songwriting credit.  I remember some years back I was having an on-line discussion with a guy named Eric Bolvin who is a very accomplished jazz trumpet player and composer (he writes movie scores).  I've known the guy for over 30 years.  He was ASTONISHED when I told him that Chuck Leavell didn't get any writing credit for Jessica, only Dickey Betts because Betts came up with the original idea and melody and even though Duane was dead by then, that's the way Duane did things and that continued after he passed.  But to me, Leavell's piano part is SO integral to the song that he should have been listed as a co-writer.  Think of the royalties Leavell missed out on, because that song received ENORMOUS radio play and it's on the greatest hits package that robertdee mentioned.

Butch may have had some points; it's painful for me to think that he got screwed out of any royalties whatsoever for that two million selling greatest hits package.  That just does NOT seem fair.  And in light of the way Butch died, it seems especially painful to even think about.  All I can say is, Butch should have had a trusted professional doing his taxes for him.  I think it's pretty obvious that he was careless and unprofessional in the way he handled his personal finances.  Despite whatever happened with all those songwriting royalties, ABB was a successful touring act for 25 years after reuniting in 1989 and Butch was in the band for that entire time.  That must have been a pretty significant stream of income for him for a quarter century.  Where did it all go?  Probably not to a good tax man.  I hope someone wasn't ripping him off.  Even little old me with my comparatively paltry income has had my taxes done by the same trusted professionals for 35 years now.  I'm certainly not swimming in cash but I'm retired, paying the bills without working, and have a single family home that's almost paid off.  I think in the end the truth is that Butch was just not a financially responsible individual.  

This post was modified 1 year ago 3 times by robslob
 
Posted : November 26, 2022 4:07 pm
robertdee
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@stephen Gregg and Butch and the others did make a lot of money and so did Phil Walden and Capricorn Records off Brothers and Sisters, Eat A Peach, Fillmore East etc. All three sold over a million copies with Brothers and Sisters over 5 million. Gregg said Duane finally got one decent chech off of Fillmore East then he was gone. Gregg thought it wasn't right. Before the Fillmore release the band didn't have much money. Phil Walden warning them to get by on $10 or $15 dollars a day then Gregg said after Fillmore went gold it was "Order anything you want boys". 

But Phil Walden was getting behind on royality payments plus they claimed their cut should have been more. After Enlighten Rogues came out in 1979, Dickey sued Capricorn and won over $1 million so everyone got inline. I think Chuck Leavell sued too. Anyway the label went bankrupt and Polygram wound up with the catalog and the band members no longer made any money off those old Capricorn record sales as I understand it. Only the writers got a cut whether they were in the band or not and that is why Butch got nothing from that 1991 release which sold over 2 million copies. All the tracks on it at from their Capricorn albums. 

 
Posted : November 26, 2022 4:58 pm
Stephen
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Yes that would’ve been a bitter pill to swallow, both for Butch and Jaimoe if it was just songwriters only profiting from the lucrative sales of A Decade Of Hits - mayb Gregg & Dickey cut them a piece of it on their own, who knows - they were still full partners 

jusr another case of “a real expensive lesson” - so many bands deal w/it in one way or another - heck ERogues went “platinum” & the Brothers were shortchanged then too - each original member lost about $1M it said in the book Midnight Riders, leading to Dickey’s comment of “a real expensive lesson”

 
Posted : November 26, 2022 8:20 pm
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I have a very slight philosophical disagreement with some of you.  There are "songwriters' and there are "composers".  A songwriter might come up with the lyrics and a progression (which may have been "borrowed" from any number of other songs).  A composer creates a structured piece of music - including the tempo and the parts played by all of the musicians.  Gregg and Dickey certain wrote those great songs - but did they chart out the bass and drum parts to be played?  I'm guessing that these "arrangements" came together through playing the songs - either in shows or in the studio as they were being recorded.  

We've had these conversations many times.  Personally, I think that Butch, Berry, Oteil  et al DESERVED some form of compensation and recognition for their contributions.  Not a full co-writers cut, but something.   My opinion, here.  Feel free to disagree.

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 9:36 am
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Stephen
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I agree w/the gist of your take Rusty - it’s a tough line to draw - for xmpl Kim received credit for his “the road goes on forever” line in MRider - why should it be any different for musicians working up & fine-tuning the songs/arrangements onstage - that’s a form of “songwriting” too, a la Mtn Jam, ‘lanta etc 

flip-side, Tom Fogerty, Stu Cook & Doug Clifford never saw CCR royalties - they were songwriting royalties & went only to John - who I guess didn’t cut them in, leaving them understandably bitter

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 11:29 am
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porkchopbob
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It's important to look at the music business in the 1960s - songwriters weren't highly regarded, many were a cog in hit factories and would only receive a small percentage of their own songs. Col Tom Parker was shrewd enough to make sure Elvis had publishing rights to all of his songs, none of which he wrote.

But few artists had the forsight to protect their own catalogue. Even The Beatles owned only a small share of their own songs in the 1960s, the majority owned by a publishing company called Northern Songs (leading to Harrison to write "Only a Northern Song" in frustration). Some bands shared in the profits, I believe The Doors mostly did and you don't see the surviving members at each others' throats about it. Some didn't share, and you see guys who didn't write songs, like Levon Helm, on the road until the end. John Fogerty wasn't even allowed to perform his own songs for a couple decades. Regarding CCR, I believe the rest of the band was bitter because John didn't allow their songs on the albums, and when he finally did, he made Doug and Stu sing the songs they wrote.

I get the frustration, especially drummers like Clyde Subblefield and Butch Trucks who would get paid for a recording session only to hear that performance sampled on a hit single decades later. But the life of a musician ain't an easy one.

Gregg said he would offer the job to Warren Haynes and if Warren refuses we will just fold the band and Gregg would go with his solo band. But Warren accepted and the band stayed together until 2014.

One thing to remember is the only reason Warren said "yes" was because Gov't Mule happened to be in flux after Woody passed. Warren came back as "special guest" for the 2001 Beacon Run to make sure it felt ok, it wasn't a sure thing the band would continue.

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Posted : November 27, 2022 12:07 pm
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Posted by: @stephen

Good post, this is the way I too recall it all happening - why didn’t they take Dickey aside & say hey man, let’s turn it down, we don’t need all this volume, your rig’s too loud, we’re getting blasted offstage, the sound is too shrill....instead of the fax/pink slip -

As Uponthe2ndFloor, an acquaintance of Jack Pearson posted and pointed out a while back, Pearson who suffers badly from tinnitus had gone to Dickey and asked him to turn things down due to his hearing. Dickey's response was to turn it up even louder. I believe it was a main reason why Jack left the band. There are other known instances of boorish behavior through the years too. There was no single volume problem that caused Betts' dismissal.

 

"My friends say I'm ugly I got a masculine face." Tom Waits

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 12:13 pm
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Of course hindsight is always 20/20, but once Dickey turned things up even louder they should’ve put things to a vote, if the other 3 felt the same way, to just say, Dickey we’re going to try having the stage volume where we want it for a few gigs, it has to be done for Jack’s sake & the sake of the band - Jack asked you to, we need him in this band & we’re voting on it….etc 

……all the more reason to officially release an amazing Jack/Oteil show 🎸

🤙hadn’t known that about John’s decision not to sing his bandmates’ material - crazy, esp if he’d been asked - yeah saw a docu where the drummer Doug Clifford said the other 3 were just John’s “hired hands” - again, the swamp known as the music biz

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 1:23 pm
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A copyright is issued for a melody and lyrics, if any.

If one wants money from songwriting one must write a song.

Here is the sheet music filed on “Hey Joe” with Library of Congress stamp.

53B02B6E 9846 4615 A863 865655740123

I can see a band wishing to share the money to keep the wheels greased but how far would you go if you were the writer?

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 2:59 pm
Stephen
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The song he wrote however was brought to life by others - when cashing royalty checks I for one out of fairness would be compelled to direct shares of it to the people who helped create what you as the writer brought to the table
 
George & Ringo benefitted from Beatles residuals thruout their lives - the radio said a few years ago that Norman Greenbaum still sees Spirit in the Sky $ - they explained it all, don’t recall the specifics 

it all varies from one artist/band to another I suppose - an ongoing morass of misery for musicians

This post was modified 1 year ago by Stephen
 
Posted : November 27, 2022 4:42 pm
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At different times Butch and Dickey said Gregg's Whipping Post was almost a slow ballad when Gregg showed it to the band. 

While they were working it up the band wasn't happy with what they had and Berry Oakley said " Let me sleep on it tonight". The next day Butch had a new time signature and Berry had a new bass line with that so familiar intro. 

That opening bass part and the time signature is so ingrained in that song now and EVERY LINEUP to 2014 used it that you can't imagine Whipping Post without it. It is so much a part of the song it would make since for Berry Oakley to have a writing credit and perhaps Butch Trucks too. But it is just Gregg. 

As to Midnight Rider, Gregg was stuck when he was writing the lyrics and Kim Payne said " make it ' the road goes on forever'". Gregg used it. But Kim said he had to push Gregg more than once to give him a cut but Gregg finally got the publisher on the phone and Kim gets 5% of the writing royality each year the song makes and Gregg got 95%. 

Dickey admitted to Dan Rather that Chuck Leavell helped shape Jessica in the studio enough that he almost should get a piece of the royality. 

And Butch Trucks said Dickey kept running up to him and Gregg while they were in the studio showing them what he had but was stuck and Butch and Gregg helped Dickey get Les Brers In A Minor to the finish line. Butch said it's bad French for LESS BROTHERS in the wake of Duane's passing and that Butch came up with the instrumental's name. 

Also Butch, Gregg and Jaimoe kept telling Dickey they had heard the melody line before. Dickey was wondering if they thought he was ripping off someone. Then one of the roadies found Dickey playing the melody line, I think on a soundboard recording of Whipping Post during Dickey's solo. 

With Hot 'Lana Gregg said he came up with the riff at the studio and was playing it over and over and Dickey ran up to him and hummed the melody line in his ear and a song was taking shape and the entire band thru in their ideas and all six of them finished it together and Duane Allman turned it in to the publisher as being written by all six of them and it came out on At Fillmore East done live. 

Too bad Bill Levenson didn't include Hot 'Lana on 1969-1979 A Decade of Hits. Butch and Jaimoe would have gotten 1/6 of one track but that compilation set released in 1991 sold over 2 million copies so it would have added up and Butch would have gotten something!!

It's surprising that set sold over 2 million copies. I guess it had the songs on it, Ramblin' Man, Jessica, Melissa, Blue Sky, One Way Out etc that people were hearing on the album rock stations back then. These days the two stations I can tune in never play the Allman Brothers now. Used to. And very little Lynyrd Skynyrd. 

This post was modified 1 year ago 4 times by robertdee
 
Posted : November 27, 2022 7:05 pm
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Yeah those songs were on numerous best-of comps prior to 1991, esp being 1969-79 - those comps are good sellers, even ones w/the same songs when packaged strategically - yep from Hell & High Water to Mycology they’re all out there🎶

Bro Kim’s lyric was also the name of their first comp - The Road Goes On Forever - a two record set from 1975 which combined w/that year’s Win Lose or Draw made it about the last big-money years for the band - it did similar business to Beginnings IIRC - the double live one vanished sorta quickly tho

ABB

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 7:56 pm
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@robertdee 

“Les Brers” is southern American French for The Brothers (French plural of “the”; combination of “frere” and “brother”). “Less” is just a coincidental double meaning.

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Posted : November 27, 2022 8:49 pm
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Posted by: @robertdee

 

Dickey admitted to Dan Rather that Chuck Leavell helped shape Jessica in the studio enough that he almost should get a piece of the royality. 

That's certainly complementary of Chuck's brilliant playing on the song. It's one thing to say someone should get royalties, when it doesn't cost you to suggest that, and the royalties that both Dickey and Phil Walden promised to Les Dudek, who wrote the connecting bridge to the melodies, on Jessica and then never received a penny from the song.

 

"My friends say I'm ugly I got a masculine face." Tom Waits

 
Posted : November 27, 2022 9:29 pm
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