Sorry, will disagree. This is the fastest a vaccine has ever been rolled out. Less than 1 year! Before doing so, it had to be proven safe and effective. The bar is higher for vaccine than drug because healthy people are getting it.
It usually takes several years for enough data to be accrued to approve a vaccine
this was quicker because thevRNA technology is new and faster than what we had before. Also, the disease is so rampant it took much less time to demonstrate effectiveness
sorry forgot your friend and the millions who got and will get this.
The vaccine was not held up for any reason other than we needed data
Personally, I am thrilled and thought there was no way we would get one this fast
@stormyrider Years ago, before I had a GPS system in my car - I relied on on-line services (Mapquest et al) for print-out maps. These maps always worked fine - down to about the last two miles or so of the journey. Then, all of the sudden - street names weren't the same, there was a road that had been closed recently - little anomalies that had me pulling into the local Tastee-Freeze to get the final directions.
The vaccine is out! Or is it? Do you watch Saturday night Live? On this past weekend's "Weekend Update", Kate McKinnon played a character, "Dr. Wenodis" (We-know-dis). The character's main lines were "we know dis" - when asked questions about the virus and the vaccine. When asked about FINAL DELIVERY and actual administration of the vaccine - the answers went to "we-DON'T-know-dis".
I've been calling my dear old aunt's doctors trying to figure out how to get her vaccine ASAP. They literally have no freakin' clue when or how these doses are to be administered! They HAVE the medicine - they just don't know how or when to administer it. In Alabama a shipment arrived too cold and was deemed unusable.
Yeah, it's these final steps of the equation that seem to have everybody stumped.
Just too weeks ago - and after the medicine had been developed - there was a story that went something like, "the FDA meets NEXT week do discuss final delivery ... which should come within 98 hours after the meeting". You don't see any "foot-dragging" in that story?
I hope that this is not politics. Probably just American bureaucracy in action. Blame lawyers ... but aren't most politicians lawyers these days?
@rusty I don't think that is foot-dragging at all, it's not like scrambling jets. Everyone is anxious for this to be over, but remember just how many people there are waiting for this: millions upon millions. Getting boots on the ground to administer it properly, to the people that need it the most first, is going to take some time. It's not like Amazon where there's a warehouse just waiting for everyone to click a button. Relatively speaking, this has all happened at lightning speed.
200,000 new cases EVERY day. One American dies EVERY minute. (CBS News)
They've moved at record speed. This is not something to cut corners with. If Trump would have had his way, he would have preferred natural herd "mentality" as he referred to it. More has been coming out on that in the last couple days.
If Trump would have dealt with this properly and earlier, the numbers you alluded to could have been probably been significantly lower. However, his emphasis was the economy & SP500 over health.
@rusty I totally get that. But think of the logistics to produce and distribute a vaccine on such a large scale. I've been through natural disasters, and even in the fastest responses it can takes days just for food and water to get mobilized and distributed. Now imagine if everyone on the planet had been through a natural disaster and food and water had to be manufactured, transported, and distributed with a needle.
This is not political
it’s a logistical nightmare
there isn’t enough to go around. Health care providers and NH residents are getting it 1st. Elderly are next but no one knows when that will be. It depends in supply
this vaccine came out in record time. You want your aunt to get it yesterday and I don’t blame you. A very large % of people think it came out too fast. Less then 1/2 the people at our hospital have signed up for it, and most aren’t anti- vaccers
the regulatory system is there for a reason. Every time a drug is taken off the market, people complain that we let the drug companies off to easy.
I don't know that physicians in private practice are the best people to call. When the roll-out was announced, I was notified by my pharmacy that it would be distributing it for free in two doses. They explained the timing between doses & how quickly the vaccine might be effective after the final dose. There've been updates that don't say much beyond "it's coming," but the messages (emails or texts) give consumers a sense that the pharmacy is on top of it, info will be passed on, & we will know when to start going to get our 1st dose. I'm sure it's a PR move to keep them from being inundated w/calls. Obviously, a retail pharmacy isn't going to be vaccinating healthcare workers & nursing home patients, so when it's time for the general public >60 to start getting it, we'll know. Their business is dispensing meds; doctors diagnose & prescribe so I'm not counting on my GP to be on top of this.
this vaccine came out in record time. You want your aunt to get it yesterday and I don’t blame you. A very large % of people think it came out too fast. Less then 1/2 the people at our hospital have signed up for it, and most aren’t anti- vaccers
the regulatory system is there for a reason. Every time a drug is taken off the market, people complain that we let the drug companies off to easy.
I've been surprised to hear that healthcare workers aren't 100% up for getting the vaccine. I know how the usual approval process & how rare it is for this to have this to market so quickly. It almost seems like a massive clinical trial & everyone's a research subject.
So, the resistance is because the process wasn't long enough for subtle or long-term side effects to be identified?
I guess
that and the possibility of long term effects
Returning to the original question, I have concerns about the continued flaunting of prevention protocols by many in the name of "holidays" starting w/Thanksgiving that have caused record numbers of new cases as well as the length of time between deployment & all Americans having access to the vaccine. And then there's the new strain showing up in the UK.
One thing I haven't read about is how long-lasting the vaccine is - if we know. Is it once vaccinated, we're good for 5 years, 10, a lifetime?
Tennessee Governor (don't know his name) said last week, "... the vaccine will not cure selfishness ...". This is the truest statement that I've heard from a politician on the virus yet.
Selfishness! The absence of selflessness! Add to that, obstinance!
Here on the island, we experience holiday "tourons" year-round. Folks with money, flaunting their disregard for the safety, health and well-being of others. I drove past a rental cottage this weekend - filled way past capacity with an assemblage of folks. They had set up a volleyball net in the small front yard - no fewer than 30 adults participating. Saw many of the same folks parading around the pier village - not a mask on any of 'em! I'm sure they're packing the restaurants and even the bars.
Then there are the REPUBLICAN politicians and their ilk! All denied the existence of the virus while belittling those who choose to mask and exercise social distancing. Watch as these very types rush their way to the front of the vaccine lines! No different than the Hollywood star-moms who spend big money to get their white-privy kids into a university - ahead of lesser endowed but more deserving others.
We need vaccines for Selfishness and Obstinance!
It's not partisan beyond the elite levels - Guiliani possibly exposing up to 500 people before checking into Georgetown knowing he'd get the VIP meds/treatment.
I have a long-time friend who lives on the islands off Charleston who has never had a political thought in his head - didn't even know there was an election for home-room representative for student council in high school. College educated, businessman, affluent enough, married to an apolitical former beauty queen. Their extended family mantra is Church on Sunday & party, golf, party. He told me he was "fortunate" to live in a state that allowed them to do all their usual Christmas shopping, partying, and planning a group getaway to the Caribbean for New Year's Eve. He's annoyed that he can't see his 92 year old mother in her dementia facility except behind glass.
I'd call that apathy not selfishness & he doesn't recognize it. His church regularly has missions to poor countries & a local food pantry in which he participates. Judging by the size of his church and his large circle of friends, I'd say there are a lot of shallow people to whom Covid is just something in the news. Yes, someone's 30 yr old daughter had it, but she just lost her sense of taste for a day so it's really not that big a deal. IMO, these apathetic people are just as likely to be superspreaders as rabid Trump supporters who've turned a simple mask into a political statement.
I don't know that physicians in private practice are the best people to call. When the roll-out was announced, I was notified by my pharmacy that it would be distributing it for free in two doses. They explained the timing between doses & how quickly the vaccine might be effective after the final dose. There've been updates that don't say much beyond "it's coming," but the messages (emails or texts) give consumers a sense that the pharmacy is on top of it, info will be passed on, & we will know when to start going to get our 1st dose. I'm sure it's a PR move to keep them from being inundated w/calls. Obviously, a retail pharmacy isn't going to be vaccinating healthcare workers & nursing home patients, so when it's time for the general public >60 to start getting it, we'll know. Their business is dispensing meds; doctors diagnose & prescribe so I'm not counting on my GP to be on top of this.
Just got an update from my pharmacy w/a timeframe - Spring 2021. That's the 1st real news since the original "we've got this" notification. It's also several months later than originally indicated. When the POTUS-elect just gets his this week, it's logical to expect the public's access to be later than the original timeframe. It depends on the state's allotment & ability to distribute.
In the meantime, we've got to keep doing what we know works - masks, social distancing, capacity caps, even staying home. We're protecting ourselves not only against Covid but the selfish & apathetic people who are spreaders. Sucks.
@cyclone88 I'm hoping that as more types(?) and quantities become available that the dates come quicker. As cynical and sarcastic as I might be, I am yet an optimist! 😉
https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/23/health/vaccine-rollout-slow-data-lags/index.html
Approximately 9 million doses sitting in a deep-freezer ... somewhere? I guess?
Shouldn't this stuff be finding its way into some arms by now?
Recruit retired nurses, doctors, blood/plasma donation clinicians ... the people who give lethal injections - just train some people to inject! It's not surgery!
But, no - certainly no feet-dragging, bureaucracy, red tape or politics. Not around here.
EDIT: More doses sitting out there than I originally indicated.
Running out of hospital space here in So Cal. Patients are being moved to conference rooms and gift shops. They're saying now it's going to get worse before it gets better.
Be safe and smart everyone.
V - if you want to pick pepper outta $hit, go ahead and do so.
Quite often when people die ... of anything - there are often numerous ... 'extracurricular" circumstances involved. I've known a couple of folks who died MAINLY because they had HIV. Their death certificate named (for instance) Pneumonia as the CAUSE of death. Again, Covid exasperates the "underlying cause". To iterate, the people (that I know about) would've probably lived a longer life with their "underlying issues" (COPD, Emphysema, Diabetes, even HIV) had they not been exposed to Covid. Using yet another analogy - it's just like dousing a flaming house with gasoline.
HIV/AIDS is still a cause of death and the meds while good at keeping T-Cell/CD4 counts high are extremely toxic and bad for the vital organs, and have horrible short and long term side effects. I am HIV- but I know people who are or were HIV+ or who lived with AIDS, and who are or were on the medications. They ALL said how with the horrible short and long term side effects from the medications, that it's not something they would wish upon their worst enemy or anyone. People I know who are HIV+ said that even with state and federal help, the medications are still super expensive, and must be taken daily.
But now you have idiot Gen Z and whatever's after Gen Z kids who think the toxic Truvada/PREP is a magic pill and that it's fine to have unsafe sex, that they'll stay HIV-, not get any other sexual diseases, etc. These fools are too young to remember what it was like for HIV+ people before AZT, how fast people went from being HIV+ to dying due to AIDS, before the cocktail/protease inhibitors, and before Truvada/PREP, but they have no idea how to practise safer sex.
My Mom called me this morning, she's in her mid 70s. She took one of her friends to the hospital who had been sick for a few days. They wore masks in the car...but turns out that lady has covid. My Mom is a healthy woman, very healthy for her age. The friend she took not so much. But anyway, I'm telling her she needs to isolate for 10 days and she is kind of arguing with me. She's a really smart woman, I don't want anyone to think she's a Trump fan and covid denier or something. I told her to call one of the county or state hotlines and see what they say. She'll do the right thing. I just asked my wife last night if we thought our immediate family is going to escape without having somebody get it. We've had friends and family outside of the immediate circle get it, but so far we've been lucky and wise enough to avoid it. Hopefully the limited time my Mom was with her friend in the car doesn't lead to her getting it, but it could.
Word at the beginning of the Christmas holidays of a friend in Alabama who has Covid. She seems to have done okay and recovering. News this morning of a local couple down with the disease. One doing fair - the other, not so well.
DISTRIBUTION OF VACCINE GRIPE - PART III
I keep hearing in the media of how generic pharmacies (drug stores) will be used to administer the vaccine. Have any of you ever gone into CVS (for example) to get a prescription filled? In the PRE-Covid world, you'd be standing in a line - three people behind that counter working as hard as they can to fill orders. The whole while, you're hearing the store PA: "Pharmacy call on line one ... Pharmacy call on line one ... Pharmacy call on line TWO ...". I think expecting this model to work is just a preposterous idea!
PANDEMIC! 200,000 new cases DAILY - A Covid related death every 60 seconds!
I strongly dislike out-going President Donald Trump. I do think his idea to involve the military is a viable one. Why not set up MASH-like units in stadium and mall parking lots - use the National Guard and military doctors and medical personnel to expedite the administration of the vaccine?
People in Florida (and elsewhere) standing in lines - camping out overnight! Why not use an alphabetical system similar to the DMV - Last names beginning with letters A-C come in for the first few days - followed alphabetically until all have been vaccinated. How much common sense would it take to become even a little organized?
The entire federal response has been a complete sh#t show...All of which lies at the feet of one Donald Trump....
His administration has had months to create and implement and pay for a process to provide immunizations on a mass scale. Of course that requires an engaged and learned leader.
Instead we have a child at the top of the leader board who whines, pisses and moans, throws tantrums, spends his time creating conspiracy theories, calls election officials asking them to break the law, etc....And then there’s his obsession with golf...Is it any wonder the process for delivering the vaccination is in the state it’s in?
Good old Donnie Trump, making “America Great Again.” What an incompetent and embarrassing clown Trump has proven to be....All foreseen by anyone who bothered to look at his track record.
I keep hearing in the media of how generic pharmacies (drug stores) will be used to administer the vaccine. Have any of you ever gone into CVS (for example) to get a prescription filled? In the PRE-Covid world, you'd be standing in a line - three people behind that counter working as hard as they can to fill orders. The whole while, you're hearing the store PA: "Pharmacy call on line one ... Pharmacy call on line one ... Pharmacy call on line TWO ...". I think expecting this model to work is just a preposterous idea!
I rarely have to get any medications, but had some dental work done today. I just went to CVS yesterday and was in and out with nobody else around. Maybe I caught them on a good day. I didn't go until they called the house to say it was ready.
You can get flu shots about anywhere, I don't see any problem with getting covid vaccines about anywhere. I don't think about it much, when it is my time to get the vaccine I'll figure out where I should go.
@nebish The Pandemic has resulted (around here and a little further south in Florida) in a PANIC-demic. Vaccines available on a first-come first-serve basis (cattle call) result in a a whole lot of people showing up at the same time. Could these mass-arrivals (and waitings) turn into spreader events? Imagine catching the disease that you so desperately are running from at the place where you ran to for the vaccine.
CVS (Walgreens, even) experiences can vary. I make 2- 3 trips a week for my aunt (they were MAILING her meds for free for a while - don't know what happened to that ounce of prevention). I guess it depends on when you show up, but typically - on a good day there is a line ... and a crew of no more than 3 people on hand to deal with the line. Regardless - think there are better ways to channel the vaccine. Personally, I'd rather get my vaccine from my doctor - but they just don't seem to be in the loop for this.
To kick Trump (deservedly) - he scrapped Obama's healthcare plan - NEVER came up with his own, after promising to do so. Those who call him out on this are correct to do so. I wish we could fast-forward 15 days to see what Biden's plan for distribution will be.
Trump sucks. Maybe something Biden does will be better. Maybe it won't. Some states, communities and hospitals probably have a good vaccination plan, others might not. Some things are good, some things can be better, some things can be worse. What will be will be. I'm just past the point of complaining about pretty much anything.
My Mom is going to be staying in. I dropped something off on her porch this morning. I think yesterday she was just overwhelmed with what was happening. They were in the car together for probably 15 minutes wearing masks, I told her if you got it you don't want to unknowingly spread it, all of which she realizes she has to do now. She sanitized her car already and will wait it out at home. It's not great that my Mom had to get involved instead of her friend calling a family member or something, but my mom is the type to never say no and would do anything for a friend who asked her. That lady is still in the hospital on oxygen, not sure where that is going to end up.
Hope everything is ok, nebish. Pretty sure I posted somewhere here that my wife and I got covid right before Halloween. She got tested, I did not (they said to assume everyone in the house has it) - so yes, I believe numbers are under reported, unlike the idiots that post stupid things on social media every day. My wife did not have a fever, but had headaches and was fatigued - it lasted close to 2 weeks for her. I was lucky? that I only lost my sense of smell and taste and had no other symptoms - but it has been over 2 months and I still don't have them back. A week after we had it, my wife's sister and her husband got it - they are 69 & 70 - they had headaches, fever, nausea, and fatigue and were basically in bed for 8 days. Amazingly, they are taking care of my wife's 92 year old mother in their house, and she didn't get it.
Got a text today from my sister - she and my nephew both have it, but so far fairly mild. Scary thing is she watches out for my 92-year old dad - he doesn't live with her but she sees him quite a bit. She didn't know she had it - went to the doctor for something else and they tested her first - and told her she was positive.
The whole distribution thing certainly needs to be better. I got my flu shot from our local Jewel-Osco, my doctor said it was easier to get it there - doctors were getting less vaccines and not really getting reimbursed to provide them. The year before his office got a lot of the over 65 version, but not the normal one.
Hopefully, if we make it through these next 2 weeks someone will come up with a plan instead of planning to destroy our democracy crying over a lost election....be nice to have a president that cares about the people and shows empathy once in a while.....
I'm hoping for the best for your mother nebish.
The whole distribution of the vaccine has been a mess. Seems the feds just deliver them to the states and then washed their hands of it. The feds haven't been keeping up with what is available to them and there are hundreds of thousands of doses sitting in warehouses ready to go. Most states have been incredibly slow actually distributing the vaccines. I think some states have been so careful to get the vaccine to those first in line that it is actually slowing the process. As for pharmacies, I'm ok with them providing them. It's what they do. The demand is so high that they need to set up special areas outside though. I am planning on traveling the beginning of April and I was really hoping that I could get vaccinated prior to then, but at the rate things are going I'm starting to think it won't happen until September.
There is a 31 year old, previously healthy guy, goes to the gym regularly, no medical problems, now in a ventilation our ICU with covid
we are all vulnerable
Meanwhile with the local vaccine rollout ... local Health Department announced (via website) that after the first responders, doctors, nurses, seniors in assisted living et al are vaccinated - the general public 65 and overs will be eligible ... in about 3 weeks or so - but they have no means of actually scheduling said inoculations and that CVS (with three pharmacy techs whenever one or two aren't on break) should be the best avenue. Doctor's offices are still just not in the loop on this thing. I believe Dr.s Fine and Howard (some will get this) could've done a more efficient job on this. Still got my sleeve rolled up and my arm stickin' out ... still living in my box ... still waiting.
Not intending ill-will on anybody, but has anybody seen BigV in a while? I hope that he has managed to avoid the virus that he seemed to be so dismissive of. His absence has not gone unnoticed.
I noticed he's not been around but assumed it was election-related. I checked the playpen because he was skirting the line, but he's not there. Hope he'll be back. Maybe he's just taking a break.
