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Why is everyone still manic about Covid?  

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cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

I don't understand the purpose of denying Covid exists & there are statistics re the number of cases, hospitalizations, & deaths just as there are for every other disease or virus.

Because there is no vaccine, the only proven protection is masks, social distancing, and limiting crowds. As @stormy rider who is a doctor has pointed out, this isn't a disputed issue. Masks protect uninfected people. Because governors & other leaders have required what we know to be effective, the number of cases (& deaths) is lower than what it would've been had we taken absolutely no precautions. It happened in other countries. As I recall, the number of deaths predicted by about this time was 400,000 if certain precautions weren't taken. They were taken & the death rate is less that projected.

This isn't a political issue; it's a public health issue. Again, it's a pandemic. It's not just occurring in the US; it exists globally w/the same start/stop effect when precautions are lifted. You don't believe American media? Read/watch it from other countries. Check the published statistics from other countries. Read medical journals from other countries.

If you don't want to follow any guidelines or take precautions, don't. You want to gamble w/your health & that of those close to you, go ahead. Just stop proselytizing that your recklessness is justifiable.

 

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Posted : October 28, 2020 11:27 am
Rusty and PorkchopBob liked
Rusty
(@rusty)
Peach Extraordianire

@bigv  I hope all that works out for ya.  I mean it.

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Posted : October 28, 2020 12:50 pm
wearly89
(@wearly89)
Member

@cyclone88

When you resort to the misrepresentation of my comments you destroy your credibility, not mine. I certainly never denied there is a virus or that people with high risk factors shouldn’t protect themselves, so you’re just a rank liar. The stats I cited are from the CDC - all publicly available if your dead brain had the curiosity to explore for yourself. I am amazed that so many people are gullible enough to believe the false hype about this virus. It’s dangerous for ONLY A FEW PEOPLE in our country and there are in fact successful treatments for the way less than 2.5% of the people who have tested positive and have symptoms. So I merely muse whether it is wise public policy to punish millions of people under these circumstances. On behalf of all the millions of people getting crushed by ridiculous lockdown policies in certain states it seems perfectly reasonable to question whether those policies are sensible. Unfortunately, your ability to think independently and critically is dead. That’s exactly why you had to lead your response with a big fat lie.

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Posted : October 28, 2020 1:11 pm
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @stephen

I read your post to say that that the other infirmities you mentioned, often play a part in covid deaths 

I don’t believe CV itself is fake - do believe the casualties associated w/it are exaggerated - also that the benefit of masks are slim or none - not when this thing is running as rampant/amok as all the experts say it is - am real glad they had the opposite effect in the major Boston hospitals

would like to believe the sketchy info is legitimately b/c it’s as new to ‘the experts’ as it is to everyone 

 

Epidemiologists & specialists in the medical field would probably disagree with your dogmatism. Just curious - what is your area of expertise & background?

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Posted : October 28, 2020 3:13 pm
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@wearly89

Don't call me a liar. Don't reply to my comments. I haven't replied directly to any of yours. Frankly, I consider you a troll. 

 

 

This post was modified 1 month ago by cyclone88
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Posted : October 28, 2020 3:35 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
Peach Extraordianire
Posted by: @martind28
Posted by: @stephen

I read your post to say that that the other infirmities you mentioned, often play a part in covid deaths 

I don’t believe CV itself is fake - do believe the casualties associated w/it are exaggerated - also that the benefit of masks are slim or none - not when this thing is running as rampant/amok as all the experts say it is - am real glad they had the opposite effect in the major Boston hospitals

would like to believe the sketchy info is legitimately b/c it’s as new to ‘the experts’ as it is to everyone 

 

Epidemiologists & specialists in the medical field would probably disagree with your dogmatism. Just curious - what is your area of expertise & background?

None - just common sense & what I read/hear about it

Example: The current CNBC headline

“Cases & hospitalizations surge as US reaches ‘a critical point’ in CV pandemic”

this then is imo in stark contrast to how effective masking/6 feet/closing economy has been - we need to discard that for a approach that lowers cases, not makes them surge - yes easy for me to say, am no specialist/expert etc - but a new approach should include reopening the economy first, then maintaining scientific research for a vaccine w/a scheduled phasing out of no handshakes/hugs/socializing/sports/concerts/school-community events/business, en route back to normalcy

again I don’t know squat, just my POV 

This post was modified 1 month ago 2 times by Stephen
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Posted : October 28, 2020 4:32 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
Peach Extraordianire

There are surging cases and overflowing hospitals in some midwestern states. I haven't been there to see for myself, but those are states where it is reported that there is less mask wearing and social distancing than in the East.

They opened the economy in late spring early summer in the South and Midwest - and there was a surge. Public health officials warned against opening up. 

New cases are rising in young adults, who mingle at colleges and are less likely to wear masks and more likely to go to bars and parties than us older folks. 

There are now lockdowns in France and Germany because of a recurrent surge (no elections happening there)

This is a contagious illness - so disregarding precautions may result in you getting infected and then getting someone else infected. It is not anyone's right to do something that can hurt someone else.

I'm as sick of this as everyone else is. Opening the economy prematurely backfired. Going to bars and restaraunts created more cases and backfired. Masks, social distancing, and limiting contact has been working. I want to go to restaurants, concerts, hockey games and throw out my mask, but it would expose me and people I contact to unnecessary risk. 

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Posted : October 28, 2020 6:05 pm
cyclone88 liked
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @stephen
Posted by: @martind28
Posted by: @stephen

I read your post to say that that the other infirmities you mentioned, often play a part in covid deaths 

I don’t believe CV itself is fake - do believe the casualties associated w/it are exaggerated - also that the benefit of masks are slim or none - not when this thing is running as rampant/amok as all the experts say it is - am real glad they had the opposite effect in the major Boston hospitals

would like to believe the sketchy info is legitimately b/c it’s as new to ‘the experts’ as it is to everyone 

 

Epidemiologists & specialists in the medical field would probably disagree with your dogmatism. Just curious - what is your area of expertise & background?

None - just common sense & what I read/hear about it

Example: The current CNBC headline

“Cases & hospitalizations surge as US reaches ‘a critical point’ in CV pandemic”

this then is imo in stark contrast to how effective masking/6 feet/closing economy has been - we need to discard that for a approach that lowers cases, not makes them surge - yes easy for me to say, am no specialist/expert etc - but a new approach should include reopening the economy first, then maintaining scientific research for a vaccine w/a scheduled phasing out of no handshakes/hugs/socializing/sports/concerts/school-community events/business, en route back to normalcy

again I don’t know squat, just my POV 

Common sense is a start but relying upon expertise is even better by listening to those who are trained and skilled in fields most of us aren't. 

BTW - From most of your posts, I get the impression you'll vote for Trump. You can correct me if I'm wrong. So do you think Trump is exhibiting leadership in stating that we're rounding the turn on Covid as cases break records daily & as he hasn't attended a task force meeting in months? Do you think he's showing "common sense" in traveling around the country and having Covid rallies up to 5 per day, mostly maskless, and NO SOCIAL DISTANCING? This is someone who has taken Covid on his sholder & protected the American people? Puff...it'll be gone after Nov 3?

This post was modified 1 month ago by MartinD28
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Posted : October 28, 2020 6:13 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
Peach Extraordianire

ask Chris Christie what he thinks...

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Posted : October 28, 2020 6:18 pm
cyclone88 liked
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire
Posted by: @stormyrider I'm as sick of this as everyone else is. Opening the economy prematurely backfired. Going to bars and restaraunts created more cases and backfired. Masks, social distancing, and limiting contact has been working. I want to go to restaurants, concerts, hockey games and throw out my mask, but it would expose me and people I contact to unnecessary risk. 

Excellent point. All of our lives have been disrupted and I'm one of those who'd love to toss the mask & jump on a plane to Spain & Portugal as planned. The EU is out because they're not admitting Americans & Spain is, as you say, imposing more restrictions due its increased number of cases. Alternatively, I'd like to toss the mask & go to concerts, parties, a wedding, & a 50th anniversary party, but I'm not. It's a risk to me & my family & friends to do so. Those of us following public health guidelines aren't relishing the minimum contact; we miss living our lives freely & attending long-anticipated events, too. Adhering to precautions doesn't mean liking them.

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Posted : October 28, 2020 6:46 pm
Jerry
(@jerry)
Peach Extraordianire

Let's see if I can clear a few things up.

The virus doesn't care who is in charge, It just wants to get inside a warm body, replicate itself while destroying the living cell it infected, and try to go to another host.  That's what viruses do.

There is evidence that China knew of this virus back in 2012 and had samples of the virus stored at a Wuhan research facility, where it somehow escaped and started infecting the local population.  China did not warn the world of this virus or it's robust ability for transmitting itself to others until the worlds' media started reporting it.  

The US infections started from people returning from China.  Airports and dock were the epicenters.  The virus then spread down the interstate systems where infected people stopped at hotels, gas stations, and restaurants.  It then started going back along the highways as those exposed working at those hotels, gas stations, and restaurants went home and exposed those close to them, and others as they went about their daily lives.

it expanded exponentially going through schools, factories, grocery stores, churches, concerts, AA meetings, and other gatherings.  Not to mention all those who handled the gas pumps, coffee machines,  drink fountains, door handles, anything touched or handled by those infected or exposed.

Travel into the country from China was stopped, as was travel from other countries showing high infection rates.  Still spreading and rising.  Deaths for Covid and from complications caused by Covid rose quickly, especially in large metropolitan areas where people live in close contact with each other.  Deaths in rural areas didn't rise as quickly.  correlation, less contact with others equals less deaths.

Lockdowns, closing schools, non-essential businesses, concerts, churches, and other gatherings was started, wearing masks was suggested and then rejected several times.  Wearing gloves was suggested, then rejected.  Hand sanitizer and hand washing was put forth as a necessity, and are still held in high regard.  Masking was finally said to be effective and if not enforced by the local government, was enforced by stores and businesses.  Stores and restaurants have placed Plexiglas partitions between the customer and the cashiers and other diners.  Tables and counters are wiped down with bleach based cleaners.  Masks are the new fashion statement for employees, many of which display company logos or a "message of the day".

 

Without the lockdowns, hygienic precautions, and mask mandates we would have had a lot larger number of infections and deaths.  Here in Middle Georgia our numbers haven't changed in about a week.  Our dine-in numbers are going up, schools are open, and more small businesses are opening back up.  We have had high school football games, with distancing and mask wearing in the stands (outside, in the open).  don't know how basketball will be conducted unless the games are played in an outside venue.

 

I don't think anybody would do anything differently that could cause infections to increase, such as not wearing masks in public, or social distancing, or following the hygiene protocols, since i wouldn't want the thought of me causing the death of another person because we three, me-myself-I, didn't feel the precautions were worth the effort of doing them. 

 

 

 

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Posted : October 28, 2020 8:32 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
Peach Extraordianire

Radio report says a Johns Hopkins study shows 1 American dying of covid 19 every 107 seconds

A National Geographic story has the new info that people who use aerosol sprays unwittingly become super spreaders

another story, by Kaiser...Science (I think) said “White House & many Americans expecting too much from a vaccine”

not looking for a fight, just sharing what I saw/heard this AM - thankfully covid will be secondary news now in this the last few days of the election......mayb?....😮

have a good day, I love the ABB

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Posted : October 29, 2020 9:29 am
cyclone88 liked
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@stephen

I never look for fights. Your post is an example of media coverage of Covid - sometimes sensationalized (to sell whatever they're offering), cautionary (newspapers have medical & science sections midweek), & contradictory. The only headliner since Covid started was "Trump Hospitalized." I think the quote about pinning too much hope on a vaccine is valid - we're not there yet, it's too soon to know long-term side effects, & there may be limitations on who gets them.

Some of us discussed being overwhelmed by too much information in the early days of Covid on the old site. The solution was to concentrate on local information that affects us & keep an eye on national trends. 

FWIW, I think this thread was started by a troll. Not around for 6 years, then suddenly introduces a controversial topic, & quickly escalates versus anyone countering his opinion until he's name-calling & insulting - an MO frowned on by Rowland. 

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Posted : October 29, 2020 11:28 am
Rusty
(@rusty)
Peach Extraordianire

@cyclone88  "Genuine" media is about as split as politics themselves.  As with the internet - you can do a search on just about anything and come up with "genuine" media articles that either agree or disagree with your own point of view.  Cynically, I say that you should search the internet until you find an article that agrees with your own point of view - that's when you KNOW you've found the truth!

Every morning  check out CNN and FOX News websites.  It's interesting to note which stories that one outlet will report on that the other doesn't touch.  If they report on the same article, quite often it is from a vastly different perspective.

CNN can't (seemingly) write an article on Covid that does not somehow have Donald Trump's name or picture associated with it.  FOX ignores or brushes the subject off pretty much altogether.

Try to find a story on the Qanon movement on the FOX site!  Try to find any mention of the Borat clip with Rudy Guiliani on the same network!  

I used to consider Al Jazeera to be some sort of "commie" news outlet.  More and more I go there trying to find unbiased articles of some topics.  

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Posted : October 29, 2020 12:28 pm
Chain
(@chain)
Peach Extraordianire

Rusty,

Try the BBC and even the CBC...I think both offer another perspective on much of the national and international news...The News Hour on PBS is another good source of news.

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Posted : October 29, 2020 1:33 pm
Rusty liked
Sang
 Sang
(@sang)
World Class Peach

@jerry   Not sure if I buy into the Chinese lab theory (yet), and I also had heard that the form of virus that hit the northeast was more likely from Italy (have to find the source, but I remember reading that).   I agree with everything else you said..... I know at O'Hare Airport in Chicago they showed all the people coming back from China confined in a small place - perfect for super spreading.

The latest in Illinois, while our numbers are climbing daily, is that the governor tried to lockdown winter high school sports that were full contact (wrestling, basketball, etc.) and the Illinois High School Athletics group said we are going to do them anyway - although many schools will probably opt out (liability, for one reason).  They are trying to close down indoor dining and bars (good idea, I think), and restaurants are ignoring the orders and filing lawsuits.  I get it that it is cold in Illinois and you can't have year round outside dining, but an indoor place with people eating and drinking without masks and questionable airflow seems like a recipe for disaster in a pandemic.  Besides, I'm a good cook..... 😀 

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Posted : October 29, 2020 2:36 pm
Brendan
(@brendan)
Extreme Peach
Posted by: @chain

Rusty,

Try the BBC and even the CBC...I think both offer another perspective on much of the national and international news...The News Hour on PBS is another good source of news.

Good suggestions. I’m a big fan of the Financial Times as well. Worth checking out. 

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Posted : October 29, 2020 3:00 pm
2112
 2112
(@2112)
Peach Extraordianire

By the way, travel from China was never shut down at all. Direct flights were, but people still traveled from China to the US via connecting flight. A good friend of mine just shared a picture of his wife arriving from China over a month after the so called ban. In reality, the order barring travel from Europe was more complete. Clearly the US imported more cases of Covid-19 from Italy than from China anyway.

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Posted : October 29, 2020 6:59 pm
BIGV
 BIGV
(@bigv)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @cyclone88

I don't understand the purpose of denying Covid exists & there are statistics re the number of cases, hospitalizations, & deaths just as there are for every other disease or virus.

 

 

I not for one moment believe people are denying its existence, I think the masses are fed up with the hype and the selling of fear by the media. "Cases" do not equate to Death. The numbers are inflated and there are way too many differing opinions from professionals in the medical field concerning this virus. You believe Doctor "A"...while others find relief in what Doctor "B' espouses.

Enough of this madness.

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Posted : October 30, 2020 11:42 am
cyclone88
(@cyclone88)
Peach Extraordianire

@bigv

Of course there are people who deny its existence - it's been called a hoax & if it is some kind of illness, it's part of Bill Gates' plan to depopulate the earth, a deep state plan to undermine Trump, or a plan hatched in China to overtake the world. There is also a large segment of people who "know" someone who had it, lost their sense of smell for a day, & then felt fine so it's no big deal; these same people never had a test so their stories can't be verified. 

I don't doubt some of the masses are tired constant media attention. The same could be said for many topics since the middle of the 20th century, starting w/the Vietnam War. People got tired, distressed, and numb at watching the war in their living rooms every night before dinner & that was long before the current media cycle of 24/7.

My current plan is to avoid all news, print or otherwise, for a month. I think electioneering lasts far too long in the modern era. I've voted. That's all I can do. No point in belaboring it.

 

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Posted : October 30, 2020 3:48 pm
gina
 gina
(@gina)
World Class Peach

It is a big problem.  Here in NY, one hospital on Long Island is receiving patients from Connecticut because they are full up.  They also ordered refrigerator trucks for those who will die from it.  Unless you have seen the horror this disease can cause you will not think it is a big deal.  

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Posted : October 31, 2020 11:03 am
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

Both new cases and deaths are reported, so I'm not sure why someone would confuse the two (unless you're listening to Trump, who has caused a great deal of confusion). However, a small portion of those new cases will likely not survive. Treatments are better than they were months ago and people are working hard to relaunch activities safely, but the danger is still present. Even more so during surges when medical staff are stretched thin.

Everyone is tired of it, naturally, but what is a disruption for some is devastating for others. It can't just be ignored because we are tired of it. It's not madness to make small sacrifices for your neighbor's well being.

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Posted : October 31, 2020 12:22 pm
MartinD28
(@martind28)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @porkchopbob

Everyone is tired of it, naturally, but what is a disruption for some is devastating for others. It can't just be ignored because we are tired of it. It's not madness to make small sacrifices for your neighbor's well being.

Unfortunately for a % of the population the "small sacrifices for your neighbor's well being" take a back seat to the "don't tread on me mentality". The individual thirst for "my liberty" is secondary to the well being of thy neighbor or the greater good for society at large.

Keep in mind that there is also a % that still believes this pandemic is a hoax as they played follow the leader in spite of the leader contracting Covid.

Then there is the % that follow Trump & see he came out ok on the other side (due to medical care that the masses could only imagine). They think it's not that bad. And having the prez reiterate this reinforces that belief. Tell that to families of 230K who lost their lives.

 

 

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Posted : October 31, 2020 5:11 pm
stormyrider
(@stormyrider)
Peach Extraordianire

Over 9 mill cases in US

A small % of a large number is a large number. The disease is contagious enough that enough young healthy people are getting it that many are getting very sick or dying. 
the definition of freedom dies not include harming others, which is happening. Restrictions have been relaxed and we have seen the consequences- hospitals in the Midwest are being overrun. 

to clarify a point that has fortunately not been made here but being spread around- Doctors ARE NOT getting paid more to say someone died of Covid. Falsifying medical documents is a crime. Medicare fraud is a crime with huge consequences. The health care system has taken a big financial hit during the pandemic (like other industries). Doctors, nurses, and others are taking a risk of getting disease and many have died in the process. NO ONE has been encouraged to falsify documents and inflate Covid deaths  

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Posted : November 1, 2020 8:55 am
Randall liked
gotdrumz
(@gotdrumz)
Extreme Peach

The first thing the media barfed out was experts say millions dead in the USA if we do everything right, didn't happen.

Now the media focuses on number of cases. 6 months ago, how many had it, we're not tested, and were fine? That unknown variable powers the death rate even more.

The Constitution gives the state's individual power, so the policies regarding Covid management lie with the Governors. Blame them

They say the USA did it wrong, check out Europe they did it right... Yet what happened there? Huge spike in cases, but death rates are substantially lower than the initial outbreak. So what exactly is right?

In most states, death by pnuemonia, heart disease, cancer, flu, and diabetes are non-existent for 2020. That info can be found on individual state medical office websites.

My mom caught Covid at home and was sent to a nursing home in Northern California, where she died at 97. She had comorbidity issues. She lived a long life and so did the others that died in the same nursing home they sent her to. Staff told my sister that cases increased in the home after my mom 's arrival. This scenario took place nation wide and those governors need to be held accountable for implementing those policies. Putting those with the highest risk in greater threat for political leverage is insane, not to mention criminal. In most cases actual numbers were falsified.

Methodology is to separate those at higher risk and quarantine the sick. We did it backwards and there is still a 99% percent survival rate for over 95% of the U.S. Population.  The statistics place it barely deadlier than normal annual flu viruses to the entire populace. It is sad to see people willing to give up their civil liberties for the false sense of being safe. Truth, facts, and common sense are kicked to the curb over feelings. The corporate news and social media pushing fear and censorship of information isn't helping either.

I am just a dumb@$$ biker and the amount of stupidity I witness by educated people is quite interesting. It permeates in the cognitive processes washed in hours and hours of frivolous propagated endeavor by  individual(s) instituted in providing knowledge without wisdom for money without any persons accountability.

When I was young, I knew everything... As I grew up, it was apparent that experience was the best info one could have.  Then after realizing that I still didn't know anything, it didn 't matter until I was able to be honest with myself and admit it.

 

 

 

 

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Posted : November 1, 2020 9:19 am
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