So, to get some folks to take the vaccine some locals are offering free Lottery chances.
Taking a vaccine to avoid becoming infected with a potentially deadly virus that could possibly kill you and/or result in passing the virus along to others - including your own family and loved ones isn't motivation enough? You have to be sweet-talked, bribed or cajoled into doing what is actually the RIGHT thing? The idea that you might win a long-shot lottery drawing is more appealing than helping to wipe out a world-wide pandemic? Is this what I'm hearing?
Discuss?
I totally understand what you are saying and agree with you. There are multiple places in and around Chicago that are doing things along those lines. There's an amusement park giving free admission, I think CVS is doing something, the White Sox might be doing something too. And I think a girl from Indiana won $1m. I've heard of college tuition being paid for as well.
However, if it encourages people to get a vaccine and it isn't costing me anything, I guess I am for it. It is going to help society. I would hope as you said, that people would do it because it is the right thing to do.
Should I have not gotten mine months ago and waited for a chance to win something?
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
@lee It's similar to some school systems that offer students money or other rewards for passing grades (especially A's). I guess I was fortunate enough to have a mama who would kick my arse if I didn't study and apply myself. I'm pretty happy with the outcome, though! 😉
@lee Funny, though that be - there was something of a scandal here several years ago. As it turned out, teacher's merit raises were based on student performances on standardized tests. Some teachers took to rigging said test results - inflating or otherwise gilding the grades. Several got caught and were punished accordingly. Now, if payment for good grades was offered when I was in school ... I probably wouldn't have been clever enough to come up with an idea like yours on my own. 😉
You have to be sweet-talked, bribed or cajoled into doing what is actually the RIGHT thing?
First off, a bribe is something you offer to someone to do the WRONG thing. An incentive is what you offer someone to do the RIGHT thing. They are not bribing you to work by paying you, they are giving you an incentive.
As a teacher of students with special needs, we often offer incentives. For the majority of students, getting good grades and knowing that it will lead to getting into a good college and making good money is incentive enough. But for some, due to a myriad of circumstances and reasons, they are not motivated by that. So we try to motivate them in other ways. Same thing with the vaccine. You and I (figuratively speaking, of course) are motivated by helping the world get through this pandemic. Others, not so much. Is it fair? Sure it is. Fair doesn't mean we all get the same thing, fair means we get what we deserve.
@jarwolfs Not sure that I agree with you on all this. Perhaps, "bribe" is the wrong word? Enticing or massaging someone to do anything for monetary reward- I'll leave it to whomever to decide what is right or wrong - I don't know if you'd call that a "bribe" or not.
So, you teach students with special needs? I have several relatives (younguns - all of 'em) that fall into this category. I also have a neighbor who is a Principal at a local school for children with special needs (autism, in this case). Ran into him just yesterday on my morning walk. Says that he and his wife got vaccinated but he's choosing not to vaccinate his teenage daughter due to fears of menstrual irregularities that might occur. I'm no scientist or doctor, so I Googled this. Could be real or it could be some Qanon theory. I couldn't fin anything etched in stone, steel or concrete that confirms this. He is from the ultra-conservative camp. His decision, I suppose.
As Dwight Shrute once stated, "a citizen accepts no reward for doing the right thing". Yeah, I know - clown character on a tv comedy show.
Yes, we get what we deserve. I'd say that some are more deserving of a ventilator than others. Is this a digression?
Taking a vaccine to avoid becoming infected with a potentially deadly virus that could possibly kill you and/or result in passing the virus along to others - including your own family and loved ones isn't motivation enough? You have to be sweet-talked, bribed or cajoled into doing what is actually the RIGHT thing? The idea that you might win a long-shot lottery drawing is more appealing than helping to wipe out a world-wide pandemic? Is this what I'm hearing?
Both private companies and states are offering all kinds of things outright - not even in a lottery - as an incentive. Get a free fishing license if you get a vaccine. Some states are debating handing out cash (don't think that is legal).
I've yet to hear a coherent reason for not getting one beyond a legit religious exemption or medical disability. "I'm afraid," "I don't wanna," "It's not been thoroughly tested" (no longer true), "It's made from baby's blood/aborted fetuses/carcinogens." It comes down to "I'm selfish and/or stupid."
BTW, I don't care whether Covid originated in a Wuhan lab or a Wuhan fish market. What is the world going to do - get together & nuke China or just start WWIII since it's a global virus? It's here, there's a vaccine, let's move along.
No, we don't get what we deserve. The unvaxxed get their way & they inflict their callousness on the undeserving who for some reason can't get vaxxed.
And bribery means that the reward isn't connected to the action - like $ has no reasonable correlation to a grade; incentive requires a reasonable connection, but call it whatever you want.
There are some who will never take the vaccine for one reason or another (fear and politics being the two most common), but there are other who just don't think they need it. It's become obvious that the vaccine is helping us return back to normal and the more people that are vaccinated the faster that will happen. I'm all for offering carots to get that done faster.
The ability to remain healthy and prevent others from coming down with Covid is "lottery" enough. Aren't we talking about the greater good for the benefit of society? The need to lure someone into the greater good just doesn't seem right to me.
The reason I see most on social media is 'it has only been approved for emergency use' and hasn't been fully approved by the FDA - we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine ..... wonder what the excuse will be once it is approved ...
The reason I see most on social media is 'it has only been approved for emergency use' and hasn't been fully approved by the FDA - we don't know the long term effects of the vaccine ..... wonder what the excuse will be once it is approved ...
They overdosed on Tucker Carlson.
The ability to remain healthy and prevent others from coming down with Covid is "lottery" enough. Aren't we talking about the greater good for the benefit of society? The need to lure someone into the greater good just doesn't seem right to me.
Martin, you are the eternal optimist on this board! We can't even get a bipartisan commission to investigate the Jan 6 insurrection for the greater good - survival, even - of democracy. There is no sense of the greater good in the US anymore. I think the dividing line was before 2016, but it's deepened since then. If some people need to be coaxed into getting a vaccine that will benefit others, I'm all for it. I still think as things open up & summer progresses, the unvaxxed will find themselves unable to do things that vaxxed are whether it's admittance to stadiums & restaurants, invitations to weddings, or travel to other countries; that might turn some of them around pretty quickly.
The ability to remain healthy and prevent others from coming down with Covid is "lottery" enough. Aren't we talking about the greater good for the benefit of society? The need to lure someone into the greater good just doesn't seem right to me.
Martin, you are the eternal optimist on this board! We can't even get a bipartisan commission to investigate the Jan 6 insurrection for the greater good - survival, even - of democracy. There is no sense of the greater good in the US anymore. I think the dividing line was before 2016, but it's deepened since then. If some people need to be coaxed into getting a vaccine that will benefit others, I'm all for it. I still think as things open up & summer progresses, the unvaxxed will find themselves unable to do things that vaxxed are whether it's admittance to stadiums & restaurants, invitations to weddings, or travel to other countries; that might turn some of them around pretty quickly.
No, I'm no eternal optimist. I remember telling you & being optimistic that Biden would defeat Trump, and I was proven right in my optimism in spite of significant percentages of right wingers that are delusional and still supporting a treasonous and insurrectionist Donald Trump & his big lie.
To clarify, my original post never implied that decency & common sense would prevail for "the greater good". Instead, it was more a statement of logic. But logic seems to go the wayside each passing day in many regards.
I don't believe as you that the unvaxxed will feel like they are shutout, as they will go about their business as usual mixing in with those of us who took the vaccine.They know there is little to no enforcement in many facets of life to encourage them to get a shot; maybe some but not enough. As time moves forward and as we approach herd immunity, they'll just blend in. On the other hand, if they catch Covid, then they got what they earned honestly. I used the word "honestly" instead of "deserved", but...
Great to read all the back and forth here! Thanks to all for chiming in!
After losing 3 friends to the virus - and having several others who faired better with it - I could not WAIT for my vaccination. Free lottery tickets or fishing license? I stated from the git-go that I would PAY for a vaccine! Y'all have heard my story - when I took my elderly aunt in for her first dose, the nurses pretty much corralled me and (practically) made me take it. The relief that I felt immediately was worth more to me than any prize or bribe that they could've offered.
FYI: I'm currently taping $100 gift cards to all the life vests in my fishing boat. Just some added incentive to keep non-swimmers from drowning. 😉
You, indeed, called the election when I had serious doubts as the country seemed to have taken a hard right towards stupid.
I don't think there will be a significant # of unvaxxed who will re-think their positions when they're shut out, but I do think there will be some depending upon what restrictions are imposed -"Nope, you can't go to that stadium w/o proof of vaccination" or "Sorry, our wedding guest list of 100 is now down to 98 because no unvaxxed family are invited." The real change might come from employers who say no vaxx, no job.
Your optimism shines through in a belief that the US will approach herd immunity over time...
@cyclone88 The biggest obstacle to herd immunity is herd mentality. 'Least round here it is.
It comes down to "I'm selfish and/or stupid."
The unvaxxed get their way & they inflict their callousness on the undeserving who for some reason can't get vaxxed.
i wouldn't boil it down to this, otherwise you'll miss the point. people have their reasons and they oughta be heard and respected.
@theotherbrothers Let's hear the GOOD reasons for choosing to remain a potential spreader of a deadly virus. Negative reactions have been rare. I'd accept reasons like concern for an unborn child (pregnant female) or any legitimate advice from a doctor over current health issues. I do not personally understand any so called, "religious reasons". I consider myself a Pantheist and I don't understand how anybody's "God" would be opposed to vaccines or other means of defeating a pandemic.
This position has been posted before but if you are only gambling with your own life, knock yourself out, do whatever you want. But if you endanger the lives of others, well...
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
The two main western religions that don't generally believe in medicine follow the teachings of their founders & elders; one believes Satan is running the world. Religious exemptions don't have to be solid or reasonable to people who aren't members of that religion. Christian Science, for example, is based on a the belief that sickness is an illusion that can be healed by prayer. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a spiritual rather than secular life & consider basic things like birthdays & holidays to be pagan along w/not believing in certain medical practices. I can't remember whether Wiccans are considered a recognized religion by the courts & they use pagan healers & pre-Christian era remedies. Like a lot of cop-outs, people throw out terms like "against my religion" to suit their purposes w/o knowing what it actually means or even having a religion.
@cyclone88 One of my dearest friends was born and raised a Christian Scientist (not a Scientologist). When she discovered that she had Covid she ignored her upbringings and headed straight to the hospital. I am so happy that she survived her bout with Covid, but now - having done so - she chooses to laugh it off, saying that it was little more than week long bout of runny nose. But she did indeed haul ass to the doctor when she didn't know the severity of her infection. I love her, but her attitude and dismissal of Covid is symptomatic (pun, if you want) of the attitudes that will allow the virus to stick around.
Slight digression - The late, great football coach Paul "Bear" Bryant once pointed out how the Yankee-centric press (not his actual term) tended to snub southern teams in polls over the likes of teams like Notre Dame. That is a topic for another debate in another thread. But I have noticed that the press/media are starting to paint a picture of a recovering America - citing stats like, "80% of all adults are now vaccinated". While these numbers might be solid in places like Massachusetts and New York - here in the deep south, we are only seeing approximately 30% vaccinated. During this Memorial Day period, coastal areas like the one I live in will be inundated with visitors from near and far. I'm not a gambling man, but I'd put up some fairly serious money that we'll be seeing a surging spike in the next 10 - 20 days around here. My own football analogy: play all 4 quarters. It ain't over till it's over.
Comparisons seems to be spending money on a vaccination ad campaign in print and radio and TV media, or spend the money on this lottery that a few states are doing which can generate some excitement and fun.
I personally do not like the idea, but I can understand that line of thinking, if you are going to spend millions on an ad campaign, this is kind of the same thing except some lucky person(s) gets to win money and the government gets about half of it back in taxes anyway.
Just read that the NIH Director has essentially said the 12 states considered "sitting ducks" for another Covid outbreak due to low vaccination rates - Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Georgia, Idaho, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, West Virginia, and Wyoming. Covid is described as an "opportunist" so it's going where there's the most opportunity & least defense.
Where religion is concerned, I tend to give people a pass on their adherence to ideals/beliefs as long as it's a recognized religion. I'm pretty sure plenty of Catholic & Evangelical Christian teens have had abortions just like your friend went to a hospital rather than relying on prayer w/Covid.
