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PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

@lee I can't believe that's what they came up with. Dull.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 23, 2021 11:15 am
Rusty
(@rusty)
Peach Extraordianire

@porkchopbob They should've considered, (the) Cleveland Rocks - as per the Ian Hunter song.  😉 

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Posted : July 23, 2021 11:21 am
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

I mean, it's ok, at least it ties into the city of Cleveland, and retains "dians" in the name. Just seems like a safe choice.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 23, 2021 12:05 pm
Rusty liked
Rusty
(@rusty)
Peach Extraordianire
Posted by: @porkchopbob

I mean, it's ok, at least it ties into the city of Cleveland, and retains "dians" in the name. Just seems like a safe choice.

The "Dians" might've worked.  Gussy up the uniforms for some cross-dressing effect.  MBL's first non-binary franchise.  The times, they are-a changin'!  

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Posted : July 23, 2021 12:10 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

They should have called them The Harry Doyles after Bob Uecker's character in Major League.

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 23, 2021 3:01 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

I dunno if long time Indians fans are going to go for this.

image

It's pretty lame. I was going to say gay but that probably isn't allowed anymore. They should've kept the Indians name. 

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Posted : July 23, 2021 6:46 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

Here's something I forgot about - Braves vs. Braves game from 1998.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 23, 2021 7:12 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

@porkchopbob 

I suppose that is kinda neat but they are two totally different franchises. Didn't the Brewers start out in Seattle? And the Braves started out in Boston.

You should look up the players that played for the Braves in both Milwaukee and Atlanta, like Mathews and Aaron, maybe Spahn. I think Bob Eucker too. Maybe Boston & Milwaukee. Spahn & Sain. 😀  

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 7:40 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

Oh, since we were talking about the Indians & Braves, where is the outrage against the Atlanta Braves?

Did this Milwaukee logo not offend people? I dunno...

 

image
This post was modified 2 months ago by Lee

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 7:43 am
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

@porkchopbob 

I suppose that is kinda neat but they are two totally different franchises. Didn't the Brewers start out in Seattle? And the Braves started out in Boston.

You should look up the players that played for the Braves in both Milwaukee and Atlanta, like Mathews and Aaron, maybe Spahn. I think Bob Eucker too. Maybe Boston & Milwaukee. Spahn & Sain. 😀  

Yes, Spahnie’s 1st few years were w/the Boston Braves, then his last couple years w/the Mets & Giants

looked up Eddie, he played in all 3 locales, Boston, Milwaukee Atlanta - his last year was w/Detroit in their 1968 pennant year - in much the same role Puljos now is w/LAD

This post was modified 2 months ago 2 times by Stephen
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Posted : July 24, 2021 9:17 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

@stephen 

Mathews really wasn't any kind of good piece to the '68 Tiggers. I don't even know how much he played. Not much. He was on his last legs at that point. And Johnnie Sain was their pitching coach. I forgot about that. 

I have the whole '68 set of Tiggers cards. Took me a long time to get them all. Some are high numbers. Tough to find. I got nine of them autographed in person. Sadly, only two are still with us. Pat Dobson was the most difficult. He was the pitching coach for the Brewers when I got it. He was impressed that a kid would have his 1968 card. Nice guy.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Lee

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 10:34 am
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

@porkchopbob 

I suppose that is kinda neat but they are two totally different franchises. Didn't the Brewers start out in Seattle? And the Braves started out in Boston.

You should look up the players that played for the Braves in both Milwaukee and Atlanta, like Mathews and Aaron, maybe Spahn. I think Bob Eucker too. Maybe Boston & Milwaukee. Spahn & Sain. 😀  

It was just a fun thing to do to celebrate the Braves return to Milwaukee. Teams move and fans don't always turn off their fandom. Remember, the Braves won 2 pennants and a Series with Aaron in Cream City, there were still Braves fans in southern WI. When Hank Aaron passed, I was surprised by all of my Georgia frends who wrote about him, I always considered him a WI sports hero but hadn't thought about how long he played in Atlanta too (he played minor league in Eau Claire and finished his career back in Milwaukee as a Brewer).

Teams move, the heritage is shared. Both the Mariners and the Brewers have worn Pilots throwbacks. The Orioles played their first season as the Milwaukee Brewers before moving to St Louis. The Twins and the Rangers started as the Senators, but the Nationals now play in DC (who started as the Expos).

Then there's the time the Royals wore Brewers jerseys, but that's another story...

 

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 12:21 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach

Very cool Lee & porkchopbob - yeah Mathews must have looked at Sain, his longtime Braves teammate, & thought, I should be retired too - Eddie did get a couple of ABs vs Cards in WS - this great 1st-ballot HOFer, the only one to have played in all 3 Braves’ franchise’s cities

our pitching coach the previous year on the Sox’ miracle ‘67 pennant team also hailed from Sain’s era, the great Sal “The Barber” Maglie of Ebbetts Field Brklyn Dodgers fame in their halcyon ‘Lords of Flatbush’ heyday

 

It’s as crucial today as it was 17 years ago today at Fenway - that’s when Tek & ARod had their fight - we should be able to handle Taillon & secure the series

This post was modified 2 months ago 3 times by Stephen
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Posted : July 24, 2021 12:35 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach

They talked about “inclusion” and “embracing diversity” in changing the name

How do you embrace diversity/inclusion by excluding a proud indigenous people from your franchise as its mascot/symbol 

seems to me the Indian nations & Native Americans are being kicked to the curb & sent down a political Trail of Tears - b/c they were considered offensive

Inclusion? Diversity? Give me a break

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Posted : July 24, 2021 2:06 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

Good conversation. I could talk baseball all day. Regarding Eddie Mathews, he only had three at bats in the '68 Series. 

Didn't know the Royals wore Brewers jerseys.

Regarding the Yanks / Red Sux, I loved the (I think) it was 2003 when Don Zimmer went after Pedro Martinez. That was hilarious. I can't stand Martinez but he didn't do anything to Zimmer. 

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 2:15 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

@stephen The arguments is that teams have appropriated native peoples' imagery and iconography in an offensive way (Wahoo is a ridiculous caricature). No one has said they are being excluded by changing the name - it's not like the Cleveland baseball team has been sending native peoples a check.

@lee

the Royals' uniforms were stolen overnight so the Brewers lent them their home unis.

yxh7yh76vmtd3eho1hlh

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 2:46 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

@porkchopbob 

I wonder if the greatest player of all time, George Brett, was on the Royals when that happened. 😉 

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 3:04 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @stephen

They talked about “inclusion” and “embracing diversity” in changing the name

How do you embrace diversity/inclusion by excluding a proud indigenous people from your franchise as its mascot/symbol 

seems to me the Indian nations & Native Americans are being kicked to the curb & sent down a political Trail of Tears - b/c they were considered offensive

Inclusion? Diversity? Give me a break

Can kids play cowboys and Indians anymore? Cops and robbers?

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 3:07 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach

@lee he was!

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article231472698.html

George Brett and Hal McRae both wore No. 5 in the same Royals game.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 3:21 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach

🤙it’s a good disagreement - a ridiculous caricature to some, to others Chief Wahoo Was the Cleveland Indians - a smiling face that anyone would love (especially kids) promoting the Indians & baseball - the loud pounding of the drum in the bleachers as the team came to bat….

nowadays you could walk a little old lady across the street & someone would be offended by it

family roots are in Cleveland (dad’s side),  was a Tribe fan when very young, it’s why I & others feel the name change is for the birds

oh dear - yes I know, no offense to any birders out there😆✌️ 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Stephen
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Posted : July 24, 2021 3:23 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @porkchopbob

@lee he was!

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/for-petes-sake/article231472698.html

George Brett and Hal McRae both wore No. 5 in the same Royals game.

Wow! I would sell my kids if I had any 😛 for George's jersey. That's a cool story. Surprised I have never heard it. I have a blue Royals Cooperstown Collection jersey and I never, I mean never wear it. I'm afraid I will get something on it. I had Brett's name and his number 5 put on it. Only "bad" part is that I wanted their road jersey from the 70s with "Kansas City" printed. This one has Royals written in script like their white home unis. Still really cool. 

I don't know why I bought the darn thing if I won't wear it. 🤔 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Lee

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 3:43 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach

Back to the Indians, I had a very dear friend who I lost two years ago who was from Cleveland. He loved everything from Ohio. When the news broke that the Indians were changing their name my wife said to me, Mike is probably rolling over in his grave over this. Nothing about the Native American thing, he just grew up on the Indians.

He was actually at the 10 cent beer night debacle. He was probably 20 years old or something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Cent_Beer_Night

 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 24, 2021 3:53 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @stephen

🤙it’s a good disagreement - a ridiculous caricature to some, to others Chief Wahoo Was the Cleveland Indians - a smiling face that anyone would love (especially kids) promoting the Indians & baseball - the loud pounding of the drum in the bleachers as the team came to bat….

Minstrel shows and black face used to be normal. White people caricaturing and stereotyping other races used to be normal. Most white people were probably fine with Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffany's 50 years ago. But Wahoo is a Little Black Sambo painted red, which is not something "anyone" should love (especially kids). I'm not saying all native iconography should be removed from athletics, but it should at least be respectful. The Indians name is one thing, a grinning inhuman caricature representing a broad group of peoples is another.

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 4:30 pm
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Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach

The black Sambo connection to Chief Wahoo is a first for me - have never heard that b4

The Indians didn’t create that logo to be disrespectful to anyone or dump on Indian tribes in a racist manner - they created it to draw fans, not drive them away - there is zero connection between it & minstrel shows/black faces etc

This post was modified 2 months ago by Stephen
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Posted : July 24, 2021 5:32 pm
Stephen
(@stephen)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

Oh, since we were talking about the Indians & Braves, where is the outrage against the Atlanta Braves?

Did this Milwaukee logo not offend people? I dunno...

 

image

I for one see nothing racist or anything to be offended about, by this image, even w/his earring - it’s the logo of a bball team 

This post was modified 2 months ago by Stephen
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Posted : July 24, 2021 5:38 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @stephen

The black Sambo connection to Chief Wahoo is a first for me - have never heard that b4

The Indians didn’t create that logo to be disrespectful to anyone or dump on Indian tribes in a racist manner - they created it to draw fans, not drive them away - there is zero connection between it & minstrel shows/black faces etc

Intentions are irrelevant. I'd wager Al Jolson and Mickey Rooney didn't intend to be disrespect either. Today we know better.

1376405596 cursewahoo

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 6:24 pm
PorkchopBob
(@porkchopbob)
World Class Peach
Posted by: @lee

Oh, since we were talking about the Indians & Braves, where is the outrage against the Atlanta Braves?

Did this Milwaukee logo not offend people? I dunno...

Actually the Braves retired the Screaming Indian in 1989 after decades of complaints of it being a broad stereotyped caricature. They received a lot of backlash when they attempted to revive it a few years ago.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/really-atlanta-braves-bring-back-screaming-savage-logo

www.porkchopbob.com

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Posted : July 24, 2021 6:46 pm
nebish
(@nebish)
World Class Peach

There is a T206 Wagner up for auction.  Ends 8/15 and bidding already has it at $3.3 million!

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=86408

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Posted : July 25, 2021 7:12 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @porkchopbob
Posted by: @lee

Oh, since we were talking about the Indians & Braves, where is the outrage against the Atlanta Braves?

Did this Milwaukee logo not offend people? I dunno...

Actually the Braves retired the Screaming Indian in 1989 after decades of complaints of it being a broad stereotyped caricature. They received a lot of backlash when they attempted to revive it a few years ago.

https://indiancountrytoday.com/archive/really-atlanta-braves-bring-back-screaming-savage-logo

Didn't they kind of outlaw doing that tomahawk chop thing?

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 25, 2021 7:47 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Universal Peach
Posted by: @nebish

There is a T206 Wagner up for auction.  Ends 8/15 and bidding already has it at $3.3 million!

https://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bids/bidplace?itemid=86408

Maybe if we all pool our piggy bank money together we can swing it. 😉 

You got to go to hell before you get to Heaven.

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Topic starter Posted : July 25, 2021 7:49 am
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