As to the other, Mickey Mantle & Willie Mays in retirement were suspended from baseball for betting but are in (& Thankfully) 

Same Paul Hornung & Alex Karras in NFL but, point is

steroids didn’t give Barry Bonds his eyesight/fielding skills

PEDs didn’t add heat to the Rocket’s fastball

Tho ya hated em🥴, no one ever Played the game harder or squarer than Charlie Hustle

& tho Schilling has said incendiary things, & had business ventures go down in flames amid acrimony & charges, all that & political ideaology/affiliation/belief should be ruled null & void in HOF voting

Still see Schilling as borderline-to-a decent shot at it🤙✌️🌎

@stephen  I also think Pete Rose deserves a spot in Cooperstown.  I don't think anybody played the game with more intensity.  I think his attitude and indifference have been factors in keeping him out.  I'd bet that one day - maybe not in his own lifetime - that he gets in.  Maybe the HOF should erect a "dark wing" for its gamblers, drug abusers and various miscreants.  An asterisk wing!  

Makes sense to me Rusty! Charter member, Shoeless Joe😋

then the other greats, also McGwire, Sosa Palmieri Canseco, ARod 

& the late great Billy Martin - playing or managing, he often had a snootful or was hung over at the games😎 - like em or no, great asterisker👊

& the Georgia Peach - beat his wife & children “& we weren’t bad kids either,” his daughter recalled in book - teammates & opponents alike hated em, often was charged w/assault etc.....give em an asterisk, Ty belongs here too👌
He & Pete, the 2 greatest hitters of them all

Couldn't disagree more on Rose, Bonds and Clemens.

Rose bet on baseball as a Manager of a big league team in control of player usage and situations. John Dowd who led the investigation into Rose's betting said that Rose only accepted his lifetime ban after he was told that the final report would include evidence that he had also bet against the Reds winning some games. All of a sudden, he took his ban. Cheater.

Bonds and Clemens both used PEDs, which provided them the ability level that they wouldn't have otherwise attained. Prior to the steroids era, two men has hit 60 or more home runs in a season in the history of the game. Two. Sosa did it three times, McGwire at least twice (maybe three) and Bonds hits nearly 10% of his career homers in just one season. (Plus players like Luis Gonzalez and Brian Roberts are hitting more than 50 homers a year, come on) And if you recall, none of those guys were hitting homers that barely cleared an outfield wall or fence. All of a sudden 450-550' homers were the rule not just a very rare occurrence. Those players added muscle and strength through illegitimate means. Once again, cheaters all.

None of them belong in the HOF.

How many homers would Aaron have hit with the benefit of steroids? 1,000? 1,250? 1500?

Same with Mays. How many more than 660?

No one could believe it when Rico Petrocelli suddenly went .297/40 HR/97 RBI - ok so mayb they were onto something ahead of their time - maybe power pills did the trick for Rico that season blah blah - Brady Anderson, Len Dykstra, on&on

In the 1973 WS, would Willie Mays have been the 1954 Willie Mays w/the aid of steroids....no

native ability trumps drugs - also, balls were wound tighter, you had the corked bats among those who weren’t caught...

...there’s strength training, etc & so on

yes the steroids/PEDs/HGH were there, players illegally took them, the experts feel they never woulda had those tape measure HRs w/out them obla di obla da

——-
Schilling’s stance deserves respect - 

if his peers consider him a HOFer, “I would accept that w/honor”

but it’s not that way, so he removes his name, “the game gave me a billion times more than I gave it, it owes me exactly nothing....none of the claims being made by the writers hold any merit”

Next year would’ve been Schilling’s last year of eligibility for induction

it is that for Clemens & Bonds, article said, & I’d like to see them follow suit & remove their names from consideration

ARod will be on the ballot next time, they can have their field day w/him 

Let everyone in! 👎 

They (eventually) let Juan Marichal in - after beating a player with a bat during a game!  

I understand keeping "Shoeless Joe" out - having thrown a game that he was playing in.  Did Pete bet on a game that he or his team was participating in?  (I don't know - I'm asking.)  His gambling was certainly a no-no, but did he throw a game?  I do get the idea of keeping him out.  But his contributions as a player on the diamond certainly merit HOF status.  My opinion, here.

Yes, as a manager Pete bet on games, incl Reds games - he fessed up to it

His enshrinement as a player however, should be a no-brainer & apart & separate from that 

@porkchopbob

When I lived in Michigan I used to love to go up to the Upper Peninsula. If you drove west you could get Brewer games on the radio. Their station was powerful. I always liked listening to Uecker. 

Some interesting comments on The Hall of Fame. Something I haven't seen mentioned is that The HOF is a museum. Warts and all. The asterisk idea is interesting but I think that would open up a whole additional can of worms. How do you determine who and how someone gets the asterisk? Personally, I think Bonds and Clemens are in. They were good enough without PEDs. McGwire and Sosa, no way because they weren't nearly as good until they bulked up. 

The betting thing indeed a terrible no-no. Everybody knows that. The thing with Rose is that if he never managed, he of course would be in. I don't think he'll ever get in. 100 plus years for Shoeless Joe and he isn't in and their are conflicting thoughts on whether he actually did anything wrong or not. 

I heard some long time ESPN sportswriters / analysts today say they gave up their voting right because they basically didn't want to judge someone's moral character, which I can understand. There are multiple things that happen in the sports world where you might think are important; some you may not. Drugs, arrests, spousal abuse, etc. I think PEDs certainly changed the numbers in the record books but I take them for what they are and with a grain of salt. Brady Anderson hitting 50. Really?

speaking of Shoeless Joe...

Moonlight Graham, immortalized in Field of Dreams, played his single game as a NY Giants against the Brooklyn Superbas (Dodgers) at the 2nd Washington Park Field in Gowanus Brooklyn. The stadium was razed at some point but one of the walls still stands along 3rd Ave.

https://goo.gl/maps/Dwy2c1EXoTaZLk7j6

https://forgotten-ny.com/1999/11/a-major-league-wall/

I walked along that wall a zillion times and knew the Dodgers had a stadium in that area, but never knew there was more of it standing than there is of Ebbets Field. In fact, its the oldest piece of any major league baseball stadium still standing.

The first Washington Park Field stood a few blocks over where...Washington Park now stands in Park Slope Brooklyn. The Old Stone House that stands in the park was the site of a major part of the Battle of Long Island, and was also used as the Dodgers club house.

Rich get richer. Trevor Bauer to L.A.? La La Land is a great place for him to land so he can spout his gibberish. 😉 

Just saw that Pedro Gomez passed away yesterday at the much too young age of 58. I've always loved him covering baseball for ESPN. Apparently he was as much of a great person as he was an announcer. 

There is a Honus Wagner T206 up for grabs if you want to watch:

https://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-cards/singles-pre-1930-/1909-t206-sweet-caporal-honus-wagner-the-garagiola-wagner-sgc-authentic/a/50038-80001.s?ic2=mytracked-lotspage-lotlinks-12202013&tab=MyTrackedLots-101116

@nebish

Not horrible condition.

Unfortunately I don't have 600 grand lying around. Too bad I'm not a pro athlete. THEN I could afford it! 😉 

Well, there is still like 2 weeks to go in the auction.  Thinking it goes for 7 figures. I don't buy or collect baseball cards (just football and early Jordan) but when high profile cards come up you have to watch them just out of curiosity.

So the Cubs sign Arrieta. And there are rumors about Bryant leaving (as always though). Interesting moves. 

Got a new baseball book yesterday. Only took a day to get it from Amazon (They are amazing). "The Jewish Baseball Card Book". It was a pop up on Yahoo Sports the other day so I ordered it. Pretty neat. Coffee table kind of thing. Koufax of course gets top billing but it is neat. I think it cost like 20 bucks or something.

http://jewishmajorleaguers.org/

So I was going through a closet yesterday and I ran across a jersey I have of Dave Nelson, second baseman for mostly the Rangers. It's an actual game worn jersey, made by Rawlings. I had it authenticated years ago. Think I paid $15 for it in an old baseball card shop when I was like 13 or 14 years old. It's really cool because it is real. 

Think I am going to put it on ebay. Maybe I'll get my $15 back. 😉 

That jersey is cool. What else you got in that closet?

The Wagner at the Heritage Auction sold for $2.5 mill!

@nebish

That's the only game worn one I have although I have a bunch of others. I need to figure out how to take a picture and post it. I also have a 1975 Topps card of him that he autographed. I sent it to his house and he returned it if you can believe that. 😀 

So I got intrigued since I haven't looked at that thing in a long time. That picture I posted is the same jersey. I was wrong, it isn't a Rawlings, it's a Wilson. Size 42. He wasn't a very big guy. 😉 It barely fits me. 

In the neck of the jersey is written "72". I'm assuming that is the year. I think they used to make guys turn in their uniforms at year end and use them for minor league, spring training, etc. just to save a few pennies. They made us do that in high school. Wore the same uniforms for four years. 

Still has sweat stains in the neck. 😛 

Posted by: @lee

So I got intrigued since I haven't looked at that thing in a long time. That picture I posted is the same jersey. I was wrong, it isn't a Rawlings, it's a Wilson. Size 42. He wasn't a very big guy. 😉 It barely fits me. 

In the neck of the jersey is written "72". I'm assuming that is the year. I think they used to make guys turn in their uniforms at year end and use them for minor league, spring training, etc. just to save a few pennies. They made us do that in high school. Wore the same uniforms for four years. 

Still has sweat stains in the neck. 😛 

It probably has four number indicators in the neck on a strip tag. First is usually the uniform number, next is the year of the jersey, then a set number (usually either a 1 or a 2) and then the size of the jersey. Yes, I know some things about game used jerseys. 😉 

@oldcoot

You obviously must know a lot more about jerseys than me 😀  but what you described is nothing like this particular one. There is no strip tag. Not sure what that is. There is the size and a patch sewn underneath that with the number "72". The year. Nothing about his number "1" either. I guess this is an outlier. Like I said, it was authenticated. Oh well, it's cool to have. 🙂 

One other thing about getting that jersey. It was in 1983 I think. Me and my good friend saw that jersey and another one, a Rusty Staub Tigers jersey. I think it was a road warm up because it wasn't their actual jersey. So this had to have been '76, '77, something like that. We both tried to scrape together $15 each to buy these. 

We didn't know who should get which one. We flipped a coin and I won. I thought the Dave Nelson one was real and the Staub was just a warm up so I went with that. Think I should have gone with Staub. He was a good cook!

Posted by: @lee

@oldcoot

You obviously must know a lot more about jerseys than me 😀  but what you described is nothing like this particular one. There is no strip tag. Not sure what that is. There is the size and a patch sewn underneath that with the number "72". The year. Nothing about his number "1" either. I guess this is an outlier. Like I said, it was authenticated. Oh well, it's cool to have. 🙂 

 

I suppose different teams may have identified them differently back in those days. Now, the strip tag in the inner neck of the jersey is pretty standard. Along those lines I have an older Expos jersey from '74, a guy that I played against in high school. He never had much of an MLB career but became a long time MLB pitching coach for several different teams. His doesn't have a neck strip tag but has a sewn on tag on the lower left shirt tail area, '74 Set 2. I have another from the 60's, different player/team all together, that does have the neck strip tag detailing the uniform number, year, set and size.

That Staub sounds like a batting practice jersey or maybe from spring training. Le Grande Orange!

Posted by: @oldcoot

Posted by: @lee

@oldcoot

You obviously must know a lot more about jerseys than me 😀  but what you described is nothing like this particular one. There is no strip tag. Not sure what that is. There is the size and a patch sewn underneath that with the number "72". The year. Nothing about his number "1" either. I guess this is an outlier. Like I said, it was authenticated. Oh well, it's cool to have. 🙂 

 

 

That Staub sounds like a batting practice jersey or maybe from spring training. Le Grande Orange!

 

Yeah, that would make sense. Even when I was 13 years old it didn't look legit which is why I passed on it. Another former Expo btw. I think he had a restaurant in Manhattan at some point. And one of the slowest base runners ever. 😉