In a music store yesterday. Looking at Downbeat and an article on Ringo Starr and learned he is the richest drummer in the world according to Celebrity Net Worth on the internet. Ringo is worth 300 million. Don Henley would have been my guess but he is listed at 200 million dollars. Charlie Watts of the Rolling Stones is 160 million.
Guitar wise Eric Clapton is worth 300 million.
In the Allman Brothers if the numbers are correct, Dickey Betts 40 million, Gregg Allman 18 million, Jaimoe 2 million and Butch zero. Duane and Berry aren't mentioned but many years ago just after Duane was killed I read he was worth 2,000.00. And before money began to come in from At Fillmore East and constant touring the band members basically had no money of their own. It was all going to pay the Roadies and the expenses of being on the road most of the year which is expensive for the 6 band members and their crew to eat, drink, travel and rent lodging. If this is accurate, Duane missed out on getting the big paychecks. But he had a hell of a time and really left a legacy.
I wonder how Ringo did so well? Good for him.
But they didn't tour much and he didn't write much, if at all.
I think Gregg could have been worth the most of the Brothers but 6-7 marriages and kids takes a toll. So do serious personal problems and bad personal management decisions.
Phil Walden didn't help either.
Considering I don't think Jaimoe had 2 nickels to rub together in 1989, having $2 million net worth from being in a 7 man band from 1989-2014, without being a songwriter, is pretty dang good. Good for JJ. You figure he probably is not much above break even on Jaimoe's Jasssz Band, with the number of members he has to pay.
Most sites say Warren is worth a good bit....over $10 million (who knows how accurate that is)....being co-writer of Two of a Kind Working on a Full House which has been on CDs that have sold 30 million copies, hasn't hurt. He's also stayed married and doesn't seem extravagant.
Considering I don't think Jaimoe had 2 nickels to rub together in 1989, having $2 million net worth from being in a 7 man band from 1989-2014, without being a songwriter, is pretty dang good. Good for JJ. You figure he probably is not much above break even on Jaimoe's Jasssz Band, with the number of members he has to pay.
Most sites say Warren is worth a good bit....over $10 million (who knows how accurate that is)....being co-writer of Two of a Kind Working on a Full House which has been on CDs that have sold 30 million copies, hasn't hurt. He's also stayed married and doesn't seem extravagant.
Good point Tim, I am under the impression that if a musician doesn't have songwriting credits they don't get Royalty payments? Please correct me if I am wrong. I know Bill Ward has always been a supporter of drummers getting there share.
Ringo may have missed out on songwriting credits but was a full band partner. The Beatles made a ton of money. Supposedly Pete best made 5 million pounds on anthology alone. Ringo getting royalties on even one number on records that sold many millions also adds up
I know there have been other threads on songwriting credit -- who & why ...
But I still don't understand them. Why didn't Barry get any credit on Whipping Post
Even more puzzling is why Duane didn't get credit on Dreams. It's practically his song save the lyrics.
Anyone think Gregg was coaching or instructing him on how he wanted the guitar played on it.
It is apparently true Jaimoe didn't have any money when he rejoined the band for 2 shows in 1986.
Songwriting credits are arranged by how the writers agree. Gregg gave Kim Payne a 5% cut on Midnight Rider for coming up with one line of the words.
Many bands would have given songwriting credits to other band members for contribution to the finished arrangement. But Duane didn't like that. Gregg's Dreams, Whipping Post etc were written differently when first brought to the band. Berry came up with the opening to Whipping Post and Butch came up with the time signature and drum arrangements on Liz Reed. Midnight Rider sounded more like it does on Laid Back. Duane believed those changes that he himself made on Dreams and Whipping Post were only arrangements of the songs and the original composition should belong to the band member who brought it to the band. Butch was very irritated in a post in the mid 90s about not getting a credit on Liz Reed when they decade of hits CD sold over 2 million copies. Gregg and Dickey made millions and Butch got nothing. Gregg and Dickey came up with Hot Lanta but on that one they did give everyone a credit because the song from the beginning came up at a rehearsal but it's not on the 1991 CD that sold over 2 million. Stand back was developed by Gregg from some musical ideas Berry brought to him so Oakley gets a credit on that but I've never heard if it's 50 50. I
I know there have been other threads on songwriting credit -- who & why ...
But I still don't understand them. Why didn't Barry get any credit on Whipping Post
Even more puzzling is why Duane didn't get credit on Dreams. It's practically his song save the lyrics.
Remember, in the early 1960s, songwriters were at the bottom of the food chain at record companies. It wasn't a way to make money unless you churned out a lot of songs in a year because the record companies often got the Publishing (Colonel Parker made Elvis rich because he secured Elvis' publishing rights). Artists didn't really start writing their own material until the mid-1960s, musicians were still covering each others tunes. Even The Beatles' first album was almost half covers. And the arrangements would change, so the session musicians or arrangers aren't getting credit for their unique solos or drum beats - Duane's guitar might be iconic to "Dreams" but it's no where to be found in Buddy Miles' arrangement.
Those artists in the late 1960s who did write their own material often signed the rights away for immediate cash, not realizing the money that could be made in licensing it or repackaging it in the future. Also, these musicians were in their early 20s thinking about the next gig or groupie, not their retirement fund of financial stability.
[Edited on 5/8/2018 by porkchopbob]
Copyright for a musical composition is the lyric if any and the melody line.
Chord harmonies, general arraignments, and instrument choice do not enter the picture.
I always wonder about claims of who wrote what. Betts produced original music over his whole career.
Why not others?
I always wonder about claims of who wrote what. Betts produced original music over his whole career.
Why not others?
Not every musician wants to write music. Some people just want to play.
Great comments. Enjoyable to read.
With as much as the ABB toured and crowds they drew it's hard to believe Jaimoe is only worth 2 million.
If those celebrity net worth sites are even close to accurate who knows.
I always figured the members of the ABB made a fortune doing the Beacon runs and I thought they'd have much more then what I read above.
We don't know their exact spending or investments. They had little in 1989 (Gregg was splitting cheap hotel rooms on the road with bandmates in 1987-1988). His number seems about right.
Jaimoe seems low. He may be worth more than that one online estimate. He also lives in one of the highest tax states so he lost at least 1/3 of what he earned over the last 2 decades.
Don't give too much weight to those celebrity net worth sites. They have been proven wrong several times over the past few years.
That said as part owner of the name The Beatles, it doesn't surprise me that Ringo is # 1 and Henley second as him and Frey split the majority of those Eagles ungodly ticket prices.
[Edited on 5/8/2018 by WarEagleRK]
If those celebrity net worth sites are even close to accurate who knows.
Yeah..I take those with a grain of salt.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Easy to overlook but Foo Fighters drummer Dave Grohl is worth $280 million. He’s up there among the wealthiest drummers.
Easy to overlook but Foo Fighters drummer Dave Grohl is worth $280 million. He’s up there among the wealthiest drummers.
Nirvana money is huge, but he's more of a singer/guitarist for the majority of his career.
Another website has a lot of background info and pictures of Jaimoe and lists his net worth at 1 million 700 thousand and change. Well it has the exact amount but can't remember. Saw it last night. Slightly over 1 million 700 thousand.
That 1991 CD release "A Decade of Hits" which sold over 2 million copies with tracks from albums released from 1969 to 1979 seems to be the starting point of great tension in the band between Butch and Dickey. I remember Butch posting on this site his displeasure of not getting a writing credit on a couple of songs and he said Duane supported the position the songs belonged to whoever came up the the original idea not to how the band would add and change things arranging the songs. The intro to Whipping post Oakely wrote is a good example. Its not how Gregg wrote it. But was it writing or arranging? Apparently Duane said arranging. Butch wrote that Gregg and Dickey made a couple of million dollars of that CD and he (Butch) got nothing. But Butch admitted he didn't have the ability to write songs like Gregg and Dickey.
Shortly afterwards news got out that Butch started his own record label but Dickey was opposed to the band being on it. Butch developed a festival tour for the band and it got out that Dickey told Butch you may get the band to play at your festivals but Dickey Betts won't be on the stage. Word was Dickey pressed Gregg and Jaimoe to vote with him and not allow ABB business get mixed with Butch Truck's businesses. Butch was very upset and posted about how Dickey had made millions off of writing credits but Butch got nothing for actually, in Witch's opinion, a piece of Liz Reed and Madness From Out Of The West and now Dickey blocked his.plans for band business. Then Butch complained about Dickey hogging the albums with some songs that sounded like filler just so he can make his totality money. He sited Warren bringing Rocking Horse to the Where It All Begins sessions and Dickey said we are doing Mean Woman Blues not that song. And Butch thought Rocking Horse was the better song. I guess a lot of bands developed tensions over that kind of stuff. The Eagles did and Henley and Fry turned on Don Fleder and voted him out.
Sadly it seems likely Butch's attempts to develope an additional income stream probably got him into IRS trouble. When you own a business you have to pay double social security and taxes on everything. I had two different friends who developed their own businesses and after several years the IRS laid the heavy hammer down and took everything . One of them put a gun to his head. He started his own auto insurance company and wasn't paying all the damn taxes a business owner is required. It's almost as if US tax law discourages people from having a small business. They will burn you a new one if you don't send in proper withholding for anyone hired and working for you and something as simple as not including a sales tax on a cardboard box an insurance package and gift was sent in.
Ironic that Butch was a main facilitator in using the music to transport away from a world where government power is used to destroy lives. The IRS is a good example.
Dead and Company would have been a good business model for Butch to use to put together a touring band.
DeadCo has the 2 drummers and Weir. I'm sure they made more money in 2017 than The Grateful Dead did in most of the years they toured.
So if Butch was able to get a Jack and a Chuck for some limited runs at some smaller places, I'm sure they would have been able tp play summers and a few Beacon shows as well.
Butch is missed.
Not to be a downer, but a band of Butch, Chuck and Jack would struggle to sell out anything larger than a club. The name recognition just wouldn't be there. They would maybe fill 1/3rd of the Beacon?
Dead and Co's first word in the band name equals money. The brand name The Dead guarantees a few thousand people. It's just a different level of name recognition, management and promotion that moved them far past the ABB in the public eye.
When you own a business you have to pay double social security and taxes on everything........
Really? Do you run a business? Inland Fitness LLC (MT)
Not to be a downer, but a band of Butch, Chuck and Jack would struggle to sell out anything larger than a club. The name recognition just wouldn't be there. They would maybe fill 1/3rd of the Beacon?
Dead and Co's first word in the band name equals money. The brand name The Dead guarantees a few thousand people. It's just a different level of name recognition, management and promotion that moved them far past the ABB in the public eye.
Point taken.
What I'm after is more the "business model".
Let's take the concert archives and marketing strategy.
Grateful Dead have a company that manages and releases the old concerts.
Last I saw they were releasing numbered "limited edition" cd packages.
Granted the Allman Brothers don't have the sheer number of recorded shows to pick from, but surely there is good material available.
So we're back to the "management" thing agaion.
Always a sore point.
Stuff like this I think you need to take with a grain of salt. Wikipedia is a prime example. I've looked up some celebrity biographies and sometimes they show net worth and some just make no sense. Usually it is when someone is deceased. Hard to believe someone could have spent 40 or 50 years in Hollywood and pass away with just a couple million.
Regarding the ABB and the initial post, this one floors me:
In the Allman Brothers if the numbers are correct, Dickey Betts 40 million, Gregg Allman 18 million, Jaimoe 2 million and Butch zero.
Butch had no money? Really?
And who knows how someone lives (lived) their life? Spender, skin flint or somewhere in between?
Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.
Lee Butch had several issues with the IRS involving his personal businesses such as Flying Frog Records and Moogis and other ventures. I think Butch had sold a multimillion dollar home to get the IRS off his back but they kept coming with more audits with tax screw ups involving more back taxes, interest and penalties.
Butch was the engine of the Allman Brothers from the first day he joined. Duane got Jaimoe first, then Oakley, followed by Dickey. Then Butch was asked to join followed by Gregg who more or less replaced Reece Wynans. Oakley said after Butch joined they had the meat and potatoes drumming they needed and that freed up Jaimoe, who had a softer jazz style, to add real neat things around Butch. Then the next hole was nobody could sing as good as the band could play. Duane, Dickey and Oakley were okay on some songs but they needed a strong lead singer so Duane put the call in to Gregg who was in Los Angeles recording a solo album for Liberty Records.
I am a Butch fan and have great affection for the original band. So I was being polite as our beloved Butchie took his life over this IRS mess. Celebrity Net Worth actually lists Butch with a minus 1 million dollar net worth at his death.
Dickey made the most money off the Allman Brothers. Brothers and Sisters which sold over 4 million copies with Dickey as writer of 4 of the 7 songs made Dickey a multimillionaire. And additional songs and tours added to his net worth. Also Dickey sued the Allman Brothers and the amount is confidential agreement between him and the other 3 members but it's well known the amount was well over a million dollars plus continued percentages.
Gregg was worth 18 million at his death. Warren is listed at 13 million which is damn good because as far as I know Warren never became a voting member with ownership. I do know in 2002 the owners of The Allman Brothers Band were Gregg, Butch, Jaimoe and Dickey. Also it seems by 1982 the band didn't have any money. It collapsed with Phil Walden who came out of the dust cloud of bankruptcy with 7 million. Apparently Jaimoe had nothing. Dickey was rich from his writing and suing Phil Walden but it was actually Phil's incorporated record company that filed bankruptcy . I remember Gregg filed bankruptcy about that time. Dickey was the only one who was a multimillionaire then. When the band got back together in 1989 I think Dickey owned one of the busses and the other one was rented. In 1989 Dickey was in only one who was well off. Gregg was okay but Dickey was rich. I'm glad Gregg again became a multimillionaire. I'm not sure why he filed for bankruptcy in the early 80's but I remember reading about it in the newspaper and being very surprised. And sad for him.
As to social security taxes, when you are in business you have to pay double social security on yourself. Your part and the businesses part. I did but most of the year I was the only employee. If I hired a couple of guys then I had to pay the company half and deducted their half from their gross. This was years ago. I don't know beans about a LLC. Wonder if Butch had one or an INC? I wish he could have found a way out. That last band Les Brers may have had a chance to do as well as Govt Mule or TTB.
Don't believe the BS you read online about celebrity net worth.
Most of it is completely fabricated.
And what does it matter anyway?
Just keep buying tickets to see Jaimoe, Dickey,
Warren, Derek, Oteil, Marc Q, Jack, and all the rest.
Keep the music alive.
Why should we give a sh!t about how much $ they have in the bank??
