“ “Austin City Limits”® Celebrating 25 Years of Legendary Guitarists”
by Arlene R. Weiss
*POSTED IN TWO PARTS TO FIT ON THE FORUM BOARD**
© Copyright May 2000, June 5, 2000, June 19, 2011, August 2, 2017-2060 And In Perpetuity by Arlene R. Weiss-All Rights Reserved
In May of 2000, I was deeply honored to interview as part of a 2-Part Cover Story, in immense detail, history, and depth, venerable and esteemed Producer, Terry Lickona of the prestigious, internationally televised, PBS, live music showcase TV Program, “Austin City Limits” to celebrate ACL’s 25th Anniversary. We go in great depth and detail about the history of "Austin City Limits", and we talk in great depth about MANY of the talented artists who have appeared and performed in concert, on the show, how the show first came about, how shows are taped and produced, how shows are mixed and remixed by the artists, fond anecdotes about artists who have performed on the show, and much more.
**I also interviewed in May 2000, as part of this “Austin City Limits” Cover Story, and whose interviews with me appear at the end* of my interview with Terry Lickona below, a glittering who’s who of guitar greats and music artists who shared their own personal fond reflections and creative experiences on appearing and performing on “Austin City Limits”, including Susan Tedeschi, Doyle Bramhall II, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, Eric Johnson, Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown, Jimmie Vaughan, Robert Cray, Jonny Lang, Lloyd Maines, and Stevie Ray Vaughan’s former manager Chesley P. Millikin. (Many of whom, through the years since this 2000 interview, I have since been very deeply honored and blessed to also interview in depth and some repeatedly!).
ACL at the time, was celebrating its 25th Anniversary and so Terry Lickona and I, discussed at length, the show’s fascinating and insightful musical history, which includes hosting and showcasing some of music’s most legendary guitar players, and music artists, which the show still does even more so to this day, highlighting and branching out to a wide international and far reaching array of music artists and music styles, worldwide.
**Terry Lickona and I discuss in great detail, MANY of the iconic artists and guitarists who have appeared and performed on "Austin City Limits" including, The Allman Brothers Band, Susan Tedeschi, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimmie Vaughan, Eric Clapton, Doyle Bramhall II, Jonny Lang, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Los Lobos, Eric Johnson, Junior Brown, W.C. Clark, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Roy Clark, Chet Atkins, Bill Monroe, Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, George Thorogood & The Destroyers, Robert Cray, and MANY MORE!**
Some 17 years later, ACL is preparing for taping their 2017-2018, 43rd Season, which will host Jason Isbell, Herbie Hancock, Ed Sheeran, The Zac Brown Band, and many other music luminaries.
“Austin City Limits” now can attest to being the longest running televised music concert performance series in America’s history.
ACL has also spawned the now internationally acclaimed, annual, “Austin City Limits” Festival, in Zilker Park, Austin, Texas. This October 6-8, 2017 and October 13-15, 2017, the ACL Music Festival will feature Ryan Adams, The Red Hot Chilli Peppers, The Killers, Run The Jewels, Gorillaz, Jay-Z, Ice Cube, Asleep At The Wheel, Foster The People, Chance The Rapper, Solange, O.A.R., Spoon, Skip Marley, Eagles Of Death Metal and many more prestigious international artists.
Many TV music showcases have come and gone, but “Austin City Limits” has weathered, never catered to, and successfully endured, trends, fads, commerciality, and changing tastes and tides in the viewing audience, who still regularly and adoringly, tune in.
There is no secret to ACL’s longevity. Terry Lickona, and the staff and crew of “Austin City Limits” set out from the show’s inception, to create a no frills, back to basics, live music performance concert series that lovingly supports, develops, and nurtures music artists, from seasoned veterans to rising, talented newcomers, showcasing them on a worldwide performing stage to an international, appreciative audience.
Here’s a look back with Producer Terry Lickona at “Austin City Limits’” extraordinary history, and the phenomenal and often legendary guitarists and artists who have graced its performing stage.
***At the end of my May 2000 interview with Terry Lickona, you will see my May 2000 interviews from a glittering who’s who of guitar greats and music artists who all share their own personal fond reflections and creative experiences on appearing and performing on “Austin City Limits”, including B.B. King, Buddy Guy, Eric Johnson, Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown, Jimmie Vaughan, Robert Cray, Susan Tedeschi, Jonny Lang, Lloyd Maines, and Doyle Bramhall II, and Stevie Ray Vaughan’s former manager Chesley P. Millikin. (Many of whom, through the years since this 2000 interview, I have since been very deeply honored and blessed to also interview in depth and some repeatedly!).
Arlene R. Weiss, August 2, 2017
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The year 2000 is more than a celebration of the new millennium. It’s a two-fold celebration for the prestigious internationally televised, PBS, live music showcase, “Austin City Limits”, simultaneously broadcasting its 25th Anniversary and season, as well as beginning taping of its 26th season. No small feat in the age of the Internet, MTV, and pop culture quick disposability. What sets this program apart, what has defined it and has allowed it to endure, is its sheer nurturing love of all styles of music, and the multi-talented musicians who continually weave its multi-textured fabric.
“Austin City Limits” has lovingly embraced every style of music and likewise opened its arms to an array of legends and stylists; the great Ray Charles, Willie Nelson, Roy Orbison, The Allman Brothers Band, and Alison Krauss. Significantly though, “Austin City Limits” has earned a world-class, legendary reputation for showcasing, above all, a monumental who’s who of guitar greats. The program has introduced and showcased a dazzling constellation of stars whose measure has more than placed them as glittering fixtures among the firmament. From rising unknowns receiving their first due and exposure, to seasoned veterans. From International stars to influential mentors; Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jimmie Vaughan, B.B. King, Eric Johnson, Bonnie Raitt, Buddy Guy, Jonny Lang, Eric Clapton…. Stop the cameras! Did I say Eric Clapton?!….Well that’s a whole special story in itself. We’ll get to that later. Besides, it’s just one chapter in the wonderful story of “Austin City Limits” itself.
“Austin City Limits’” success first and foremost, is based on the staff who literally run the show. Music lovers heart and soul, their patriarch is the show’s Producer, Terry Lickona. Lickona, originally a native from upstate New York, fell in love with Austin, Texas and its uniquely continuous launching ground for musical talent. Upon coming on board with “Austin City Limits”, he has continued to develop and nurture the show into the premier televised showcase for live music, and in particular, for guitarists.
It’s a bright Spring day, the sun shining, as Lickona, a genuine, affable, and now, a longtime native Texan, chats with me from his true home, his office at PBS affiliate KLRU in Austin, Texas, home to “Austin City Limits”.
Lickona begins with how “Austin City Limits” all came about. Its inception was the brainchild of its original creator, Bill Arhos. Arhos was already the Program Manager for the local PBS affiliate. Lickona relates what initially sparked the show’s idea for Arhos. “Back in the 70’s there were two things, one was the very prolific Austin music scene, which had just exploded with the arrival of Willie Nelson who had moved here from Nashville, and a place called The Armadillo World Headquarters, which was a huge cavernous music club which featured all kinds of music from people like Willie Nelson and Waylon Jennings to Bruce Springsteen, Fats Domino, and Ray Charles, and just anything you can imagine. That, plus the fact that the television station, KLRU, which is the PBS affiliate here in Austin, had just built brand new studio facilities on the University of Texas Campus. It had this huge studio which was designed for large productions. The management at the time, including Mr. Arhos, really had no idea what they were going to do with it. But between the large studio and the active music scene, it seemed like a natural idea to produce a music show.”
Arhos invited Willie Nelson to come in and tape a show, (in actuality, the first show featuring B.W. Stevenson never aired via some technical problems and insufficient audience attendence.) The 1975 show with Willie Nelson went exceedingly well with a huge, enthusiastic audience and so it was chosen as the pilot which was aired on PBS stations nationwide. PBS was more than pleased enough with that groundbreaking pilot to “agree to fund an entire season of 13 programs’ worth of shows.”
PBS trusted Arhos’s and Lickona’s creative instincts and both at that initial time, and up through to the present, PBS has stepped back to allow the two to develop “what the appeal was about of this homegrown Texas music show from Austin. The show was well received by the stations and by the viewers around the country”, and so PBS was happy to give Arhos and Lickona creative control.
Arhos never had an inclination to take the show to the networks. Based on Arhos’s experience working in Public Broadcasting and also KLRU’s new studio facilities, PBS made the best sense in developing the viable music program. Also, according to Lickona, “The station was anxious to become a major player in National Production, and wanted to do some original programming that would establish us here in Austin at KLRU as a National Producer, much in the same way as stations like WGBH in Boston and WNET in New York.”
Then there was the sticky situation of choosing a name for the show that would have just the right ring to it. Lickona relates, “The legend goes that Bill Arhos and Executive Producer Howard Chalmers were sitting in a restaurant, or maybe it was a bar, and they were writing ideas on a napkin and one of them was “Austin City Limits” because they had seen it on a Texas Interstate road sign and that struck a chord.” But not everyone was as enthused or even able to catch on to the show’s indigenous title at first.
Lickona expounds, “I must admit that the show’s title was quite a liability for the first several years. Back in 1975, I must admit that some people didn’t quite get it. Some people also thought that it was a local music show. I can remember as Producer, calling artists’ managers and booking agents in Los Angeles or New York, trying to book their artists to appear on “Austin City Limits” and some of them had no idea what it was. They thought it was some local cable access show or some local Austin music show. But after five or six years, people figured it out and they realized once the show’s reputation was pretty well established, that it was much more than that.”
How did Terry get involved with the show? “After graduating from college with a Master’s Degree in Political Science of all things, I started working in radio.” Terry moved from New York to Austin and worked for a year and a half at the local NPR Public Radio Station in Austin, which not coincidentally, happened to be in the same building as the television station. Lickona elaborates, “The fact that we shared the same facilities, and although I was working in radio….I have always had very eclectic musical tastes and I was very intrigued by the whole television thing.” The fledgling “Austin City Limits” was still struggling its first few years “trying to get off the ground and book talent. It had an incredibly small staff, most of them part time people, so I volunteered to be an unpaid assistant during that third year.”
After the third year, there was a major turnover in the staff. Lickona relates, “Bill who was the Producer, found his time torn between producing “Austin City Limits” and his other job as the Program Manager for KLRU. He had to make a choice between one or the other. So he chose his programming job because he felt it offered more security for the future. The Director resigned, the Executive Producer also left, so suddenly having been an unpaid volunteer assistant, I became the senior staff person remaining. Not being one to miss an opportunity, I managed to talk my way into the Producer’s job. They were willing to give it to me, I hopefully, quickly proved myself, but it definitely was being in the right place at the right time, serendipity, providence.”
Lickona details further, “It also was a major turning point in the show’s evolution, because by then, the Austin music scene itself had begun to evolve and to drastically change. The original progressive country or Cosmic Cowboy scene as they used to call it, had really changed. By that time, a lot of the Renegade country artists, Willie, Waylon, and the boys, were no longer the “Outlaws” they once were. They had been accepted into the mainstream and were selling millions of records. Also, a lot of the original musicians and bands had either left Austin or had broken up.” By then, “Austin City Limits” had already featured nearly all of Austin’s musical finest and so it was time to scout both talent and stylistically different music from elsewhere.
As Lickona affectionately regales, “My mission, during my first year as the Producer, was to expand the horizons of the show, start doing more than Austin or Texas artists. I looked everywhere….to Nashville, to Los Angeles, to Appalachia, just to see what kind of music would fit the format for this kind of show. I started booking Bluegrass, Cajun music, Cajunto, Hispanic music, even off the wall stuff like Tom Waits, who was one of the first artists that I booked. That was really quite a stretch at the time.”
Terry exuberantly tells me that, “But then when we booked Ray Charles, that was a milestone to me, because having Ray Charles on our show validated the concept of “Austin City Limits” as being more than just a Texas music show. There was room for Austin and Texas musicians, and singer, songwriters, and also for the legendary American artists who I felt deserved to be seen and heard on a show like ours”, and of course that includes "Austin City Limits’" stellar roster of the some of the world’s most esteemed and talented guitarists.
That’s where Terry and I pick up on this mutually affectionate, enduring relationship that “Austin City Limits” has continually maintained with many of music’s most gifted and iconic guitar players. From there, the hours melt away as the fond memories and warm anecdotes regarding the endless cavalcade of glittering guitar greats unfolds. Listening in wondrous awe and joy, I realize that that’s the very magic for Terry and the staff at “Austin City Limits”.
As Terry relates, “There’s a tremendous sense of pride and satisfaction in what we do. It’s for the love of the music.” For the staff at “Austin City Limits”, everyday has that celebratory joy. So without further adieu, this is but a portion of the countless, extraordinary tales of the legendary six string artisans who have graced the “Austin City Limits” stage. All I can say is that it’s not the studio lights which light up the “Austin City Limits” stage, it’s the glow radiating from these musical luminaries, their incandescent presences and their celestial performances, outshining the spotlights to illuminate a special place in musical history.
Arlene R. Weiss: The wealth of sublimely talented guitarists who have graced the stage of “Austin City Limits” is just phenomenal. They hail from Austin, from all over Texas, and nationally from music towns and cities all over the USA. Tell me why the show’s producers are so lovingly drawn to guitarists, and why you think guitarists in turn are so likewise, also lovingly drawn to perform on “Austin City Limits”?
Terry Lickona: Well, I can tell you where it probably all began was with Bill Arhos who is a would be guitar player himself. He’s tinkered around with the guitar for all of his life and he’s always been particularly drawn to guitarists and different guitar playing styles. That was part of the original inspiration. But beyond that, is the fact that the focus of the show has always been on originality. That’s the bottom line criteria for me when I book talent. I’m looking for somebody who has something original to say in the way that they express themselves, either by playing an instrument, or by writing a song. That’s part of the overall concept, especially with guitarists. Since the show is Texas based in its roots, and continues to have a strong Texas flavor, frankly, guitarists stand out. If you look at the list of Texas artists and musicians over the years, there are so many classic Texas guitar players, going back to people like Charlie Christian, one of the pioneers of jazz guitar, on up to the present day where there are young kids, twelve years old, that are playing at clubs like Clifford Antone’s Blues Club. They’re following in the footsteps of Stevie Ray Vaughan. Guitarists especially, have always enjoyed the freedom that they have on a show like “Austin City Limits” because they can really stretch out. That’s one of the unique things about our show is the format, it’s a one hour show, without interruptions. It doesn’t have the commercial breaks that most other shows on commercial or cable TV have. We don’t tell an artist that they have to keep their songs down to three or four minutes. They can play as long as they want, so a guitar player has the ability and the freedom to really stretch out and play a long solo, play their heart and soul out, and that is rare on television, for an artist to have that kind of freedom.
Arlene R. Weiss: With vast changes in today’s musical landscape, the Internet, trends, MTV, and videos, “Austin City Limits” has continued to endure and remain vital for over 25 years. Why do you think that the artists continue to embrace the show as the premier, esteemed, televised forum to showcase their talents?
Terry Lickona: People like Vince Gill and Sheryl Crow will say that it’s the hippest show on TV. And the reason is, it’s all about music and nothing else, just an outlet to showcase music. The artist has total freedom to come on and do whatever they want. Some TV shows, all they’re interested in is the hit. They want things as short as possible. We don’t tell artists what to play. We give them complete input, as much input as they want to have in the editing process. They get to pick what songs air on the final edit, although some artists will actually defer to our judgment. It’s usually a two way street. But, yes, artists still see it as the premier showcase, and that’s part of the reason it’s been around for so long. Even some of these younger artists today, like Jonny Lang, who is I guess eighteen years old now, but he was seventeen when he did our show for the first time, talked about how he had grown up watching “Austin City Limits” since he was five years old and he had always dreamed of wanting to be on the show. And so it’s interesting, not only that the older, more established, legendary artists like Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, or Vince Gill, consider the show to be special and they keep coming back to do it again. But also, there’s a new generation of kids, who some of them weren’t even born when the show started, who still see it as the best showcase for their music, as well as for everybody else.
Arlene R. Weiss: Do you think that maybe that’s the reason that the viewing public, likewise continues to feel the same way, still embracing the show?
Terry Lickona: Absolutely. It’s also different in terms of our creative approach to the show. Most of the time, if you look at most music shows, especially MTV, VH1, or commercial television, there’s just too much emphasis on the glitz, glamour, and pyrotechnics. The Director will have twelve different cameras and literally every five seconds, the camera shot will change. It’s constantly changing from a close up shot to a wide shot to a reverse shot. As a music fan myself, and as a viewer, that’s really distracting because to me, that takes away from the music. We have what one writer described as a more “loving” approach to capturing the music on our show. In other words, we tend to linger on a shot. If somebody is playing their heart out on a guitar solo or somebody is singing a really powerful verse to a song, we will stay on that shot of that person playing guitar or singing, for a long time, because it just draws you into it that much more and it’s exciting. You feel like you’re more a part of it. And again, it gets back to the music. That’s what it should all be about.
Arlene R. Weiss: Yes, especially in a spontaneous forum like “Austin City Limits”, where it’s live.
Terry Lickona: Well, it’s about as close to being live as it gets. We will never ask an artist to do a song over. We give them the option to do that if they really botched a song or if somebody breaks a guitar string or forgets a song lyric. But unlike a lot of TV shows where the Director will ask the artist to do the same song four, five times before he’s satisfied, we don’t do that, so it really is a live show. An artist and their band will roll in here off the road, set up on our stage, and basically come out and play a concert, like they would any other night, only we capture it on cameras.
Arlene R. Weiss: Texas, and particularly Austin, is world renowned for its wealth and diverse array of gifted guitarists, informed in unlimited musical styles. Culturally and musically, why do you think that this geographic area is so conducive and nurturing to spawning this particular wellspring of talent?
Terry Lickona: Austin has always been thought of here locally, and by people in other places, as an incubator for creative performers. Not only guitarists, but it also applies to songwriters, singers, other kinds of musicians, and every style of music. It’s not so much a music business scene. It’s a music creative scene. It’s a place where people in the case of Stevie Ray Vaughan and his brother Jimmie, moved here from Dallas when they were teenagers. Other artists from other parts of Texas and all over the country, move to Austin. Once they come here, they get out there and play the clubs night after night. It’s a chance for them to really create, to discover, new ways to express themselves, to hook up with other musicians, to start bands, and if there’s a lot of cross fertilization, well that applies to guitar players. Austin is a comfortable place to learn your stuff, learn your style, learn how to express yourself, as opposed to any other place in Texas, or beyond. It’s a very stimulating environment, especially for guitar players. And frankly, more people play guitar than any other instrument, so it seems especially in Texas and in Austin, there are a lot of aspiring guitar players, learning at the age of well….five.
Arlene R. Weiss: Being a live music showcase, how has the show’s crew and stage continually adapted to the set-up and changes of guitarists, their instruments, gear, their acoustics, sound engineering, and sound equipment, through the course of their sets?
Terry Lickona: That’s been a challenge, but one of the great things about the staff here, is that a surprising number of our production staff are musicians themselves. Our Audio Director, David Hough is a drummer. He’s played with bands around Austin for many years and he’s been with us since the very beginning. Some of our camera operators are musicians who play in bands.
Arlene R. Weiss: Are there any particular artists whose technical or artistic needs are particularly challenging or even demanding, and if so, which ones, and how so?
Terry Lickona: Well, one that you’re very familiar with yourself, Eric Johnson comes to mind. I know that you have written about him. And Eric is, when I say demanding, I don’t mean in a personal way, because Eric is one of the nicest people that you’ll ever meet. But I mean in terms of his….
Arlene R. Weiss: The integrity of his needs….
Terry Lickona: Right. And his technical requirements and his stage set-up and you know how meticulous Eric is, even when it comes down to the guitar chord that he’s using and the kind of connectors that he uses. His stage set-up takes a very long time, five times as long as any other artist. And even once the show is shot, he takes many days sometimes to remix the music from the show, whereas most artists do their remixes in one, or at the most, two days. Eric will spend several days or more, and that’s quick compared to months, or even years that it takes him to complete each new studio album!
Arlene R. Weiss: Does he remix it, do you remix it, or do you collaborate together?
Terry Lickona: It’s a collaboration. Some artists will actually come in themselves. Some artists will send their Producer or their Engineer to work with our guy. Some artists will insist on doing it all themselves. In fact, a recent trend seems to be that some artists would prefer to take the tapes and not mix them here at our facility at all, but to take them either to their own studio or another studio, wherever they live. Even Clint Black who recently did a show, he’s got his own Pro Tools set-up in his house in Nashville. He mixed the entire show himself without an Engineer or anybody. And so it’s a different world out there today than it was twenty five years ago. So if an artist wants to mix a show themselves, they’re welcome to come here or if they would rather take the tapes and go mix it at home, then they can do that, as long as the results are up to our standards and so far we haven’t had any problems with that.
Arlene R. Weiss: Now I know that sometimes those challenges go beyond that, and I had read the little anecdote that’s in your 25th Anniversary Book, about legendary Bluesman Lightnin’ Hopkins. About the bottle of “Jack” and his payment and so forth. I thought that was really cute.
Terry Lickona: It was, and it was true. It was my first year as Producer and so it was part of my education. Dealing with some of the legendary Blues artists, especially those who aren’t around any longer….They grew up in a different time, when African American artists were so often cheated by record companies and by others who took advantage of their lack of education. So they had a tendency not to trust anybody. Well, people like Lightnin’, whenever they performed at a club or anywhere, they expected to be paid up front in cash. Well nobody told us that and of course being a Public Television Station, we had a certain way of dealing with the payment. We would pay everybody by check, not even on the day of the show. It would take about a week or so before we could process the payment. But when we did the show with Lightnin’, he didn’t have a Manager or anybody taking care of his business. I actually booked the show through his bass player. Now interestingly, Lightnin’ Hopkins’ bass player also happened to be a State Legislator from Houston named Ron Wilson, who is still a politician. He was the one who convinced Lightnin’ to do the show, but I guess it never occurred to Ron about the payment part of it. So on the day of the show when Lightnin’ walked in, he had a conversation with Ron and said, “Where’s the money?” That’s when Ron came to me and said, well, “Lightnin’ wants to be paid in advance and he would be very unhappy if he is not. In fact, if we expect to get a good show from him, somehow we will have to figure out a way to pay him. The sooner, the better.” Well, it was a Sunday, so the first problem was that all of the offices were closed here at the station, and number two, the banks were all closed so….We’re not talking a lot of money here because the money was and always has been basic scale. At the time it was about $400. So, I basically took up a collection from the staff and the crew, with the promise that it would all be paid in a day or two. We managed to pay Lightnin’ in cash by pooling our resources together and he was a happy man, with a bottle of “Jack” to go with it. He came out there and just gave it his all….put on a great show.
*******PART 2 IS POSTED BELOW AS A REPLY TO FIT ON THE FORUM BOARD*
[Edited on 8/3/2017 by ArleneWeiss]
Arlene R. Weiss: Three amazing youthful Blues prodigies, Jonny Lang, Doyle Bramhall II, and Kenny Wayne Shepherd have all brought their talents to your show. What do you think that talents this young bring to the show’s live forum and in their performances, as opposed to seasoned veterans who have had many more years to enjoy the rewards, yet also endure the prices and sacrifices, of the music business and performing live? Do you find a certain freshness and exuberant innocence to youthful performers such as these three?
Terry Lickona: Absolutely. I think there’s something about watching an artist, especially a guitar player who is still learning their art, still learning how to create music, and growing and evolving, practically day by day. And there’s a certain rawness to their style. At the same time, there’s that innocence, exuberance; that’s a great way to refer to it. And Stevie Ray Vaughan was a good case in point.
Arlene R. Weiss: How old was he when he first appeared on the show in 1983?
Terry Lickona: I think he was in his early 20’s. Then he came back and did the show again in 1990. In 1983, he also had of course, a lot of substance abuse problems.
Arlene R. Weiss: It seems with Stevie Ray, it was actually the reverse. Later in his life, it was like he got a new lease on life (after Vaughan’s successful sobriety), and that he appreciated what he had, and I don’t mean just his talent, I mean life itself. That came through in his second performance. Sometimes, life goes around and teaches you things and with age, you actually get more innocence, if that sounds kind of ironic.
Terry Lickona: Yes, that’s right. When he did the show in 1983, he was incredibly insecure and lacking in self confidence, compared to when he came back in 1990, where he just exuded self confidence and control on that stage.
Arlene R. Weiss: I saw that 1990 show where he played the guitar behind his head. Unbelievable, and he never missed a lick.
Terry Lickona: Yes, and it’s also a part of documenting history. How people like Jonny Lang and Kenny Wayne Shepherd play when they’re in their teens, where Doyle, who I think is in his 30’s. Then, hopefully, they’re able to come back and do the show five or ten years from now and we’re able to capture their musical growth. To have it all on tape, in our library, rather than just waiting until they’re older and more seasoned veterans.
Arlene R. Weiss: You’ve also featured some monumental rock bands that feature immensely talented guitarists such as The Allman Brothers Band, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Little Feat, and George Thorogood and The Destroyers, all renowned as influential rockers who are equally renowned for their spontaneous jams.
Terry Lickona: One of my favorites in that category who doesn’t always get mentioned is Coco Montoya, a guitar player with John Mayall and The Bluesbreakers when they appeared on our show. Montoya practically stole the show. And he was so fluid and passionate in his playing. He has since gone out on his own. He’s got a CD that came out in the last year, “Suspicion” on Alligator Records.
Arlene R. Weiss: Do you think that these bands, especially when they get into their spontaneous jams, bring a particularly celebratory feel in their performance that is extended to the audience and that likewise, is then extended back to them?
Terry Lickona: Oh yes! There’s a lot of that going on in our show. That’s another unique aspect of our show, the studio audience. Compared to other TV shows, where the audiences tend to be invited guests or industry people who get passes, the audience in our studio is about 450 people, and they’re Austin music fans from the community. Artists who come to town, will often say that the audiences in Austin are the best anywhere, and the energy level is five times that. There’s a tremendous amount of synergy going on between the audience and the artist on stage. That flow back and forth is an important part of what makes “Austin City Limits” work.
Arlene R. Weiss: I think with music, when artists have a certain celebration, love, and passion for their music, and that is extended to the audience, then the audience is also in love with what the artists are doing, and they give that love back to the artist. It’s like this constant flow that goes back and forth, a continuous circle.
Terry Lickona: And it’s especially true with a hometown guitarist like Eric Johnson, or Stevie Ray Vaughan, or Doyle Bramhall II. But it also works the same way with these bands like Little Feat, The Allman Brothers, and more recently, Lynyrd Skynyrd, when they came through to do the show. It just drives the crowd wild, especially when there are two or three guitarists going at the same time on stage, as is the case with these three bands.
Arlene R. Weiss: How did the crew deal with the challenges of the duel guitar set-up of Dickey Betts and Warren Haynes of The Allman Brothers Band and the triple guitar set-up of Gary Rossington, Ricky Medlocke, and Hughie Thomason of Lynyrd Skynyrd? How did the ACL crew deal with these bands’ equipment and guitar changes, and everything that needed to be going on to keep an uninterrupted, constant flow of music, without any technical glitches?
Terry Lickona: It’s grown amazingly complicated, exponentially so over the years, just as the technology and the hardware has changed. In the old days, back in the 70’s and in the 80’s, we’d have a four or five piece band come in and it was a pretty simple set-up; some amplifiers and microphones, and so forth. We have since had to augment our system many times. In fact, some times, a band like The Allman Brothers Band or Little Feat will insist on bringing in their own monitor system, their consoles, speakers, microphones, the whole set-up. Sometimes we have to double-up on our recording console, we have to bring in second sound boards to augment our main console. We’re already making plans for our next season of taping starting in July and the first show that we’re going to tape for next season is going to be with Phish. We just got the audio specs on them today and it’s mind boggling to look at considering that there are only four people in this band. They have over fifty inputs for all of their instruments. The guitarist has to be mixed in stereo in two or more inputs. But we’ve got the technical know-how and people who can be just as creative working with these artists.
Arlene R. Weiss: Ok! So tell me about when Eric Clapton was on “Austin City Limits”! I didn’t see that in your chronology or your Anniversary Book’s index.
Terry Lickona: Well that’s because it was a special. It wasn’t a regular “Austin City Limits” episode, but it was shot in the same studio on the same stage.
Arlene R. Weiss: What year was this Terry?
Terry Lickona: I believe it was 1995. It was “A Tribute To Stevie Ray Vaughan”. I think people may think I’m talking about The Stevie Ray Vaughan Retrospective, which is basically a compilation of the two “Austin City Limits” shows that Stevie Ray did. This was something totally separate and apart. It was a special, “A Tribute To Stevie Ray Vaughan”.
Arlene R. Weiss: So it wasn’t really a part of “Austin City Limits”. It was something that KLRU put together?
Terry Lickona: Well, right!
Arlene R. Weiss: So you’re letting me in on a little something special here!
Terry Lickona: There you go! It’s so closely associated with “Austin City Limits” though that we think of it as the same. We had Eric Clapton, B.B. King, Bonnie Raitt, Dr. John, Robert Cray, Buddy Guy, and of course, Jimmie Vaughan.
Arlene R. Weiss: I bet they had about ten encores!
Terry Lickona: Yes! Of course, at the end, there was a big jam where they all got up and played together.
Arlene R. Weiss: “Austin City Limits” has been particularly encouraging to women guitarists and to pioneering women musicians who play guitars such as Bonnie Raitt, Wynonna, Sheryl Crow, and Mary Chapin Carpenter.
Terry Lickona: And recently, Susan Tedeschi.
Arlene R. Weiss: What do you think that women guitarists bring to the show in terms of their creative output, their particular challenges and needs, in terms of their gear and set-up, and how the audience reacts to their playing? There have always been talented women artists, but I think things….it’s really starting….Things have changed so much with Lilith Fair and so forth, where women are getting that respect, particularly as guitarists.
Terry Lickona: All of that has happened within the past ten years, where women have finally been given the opportunity to come into their own. Whereas in the past, the music industry, record sales, and performers, all of that has been so heavily dominated by males. Thanks to Lilith Fair and that more women have assumed the role in the business side of things, and so they have just in some ways, taken the lead, over the last few years. That covers every category, from songwriters, to singers, to of course, guitarists. I wouldn’t say that there’s any special set of challenges that we have to deal with, with female guitar players. If anything, they may be easier to deal with because they don’t…. We haven’t run across a female guitarist who has quite as complicated a set-up as, say, an Eric Johnson or a Stevie Ray Vaughan has. It’s fascinating from the fan point of view, the Blues fan or the Guitar fan, to watch these female artists express themselves in a different way, whether it’s because they’re female or what, and to do it with such passion. And let’s face it, a woman expresses her passion in a different way than a man does, whether it’s as a guitar player or as a singer, and it’s great to see people like this get up on stage and be able to pull it off. It blows people away. When I first saw and heard Susan Tedeschi, I was just really struck by how talented she is. To me, she just came out of nowhere. I know there are others out there waiting to be discovered, waiting for that opportunity.
Arlene R. Weiss: One of my favorite pedal steel guitar players that comes to mind is Lloyd Maines. He’s pretty much been your house band person through the years. Can you elaborate on this special, affectionate relationship the show has with Lloyd and his playing?
Terry Lickona: I know Lloyd has been keeping count of how many times he’s been on the show and I think it’s over fifteen, with a variety of different artists. I think the first time that he appeared on the show was with Joe Ely, who he has backed a number of times since. He’s also played with The Dixie Chicks, whose lead singer is his daughter Natalie. He’s been a guest artist sitting in with other performers as well. He’s been almost like our house pedal steel guitar player, but Lloyd has really pushed the pedal steel guitar and taken it places where it’s never been before. If you weren’t actually watching him play it, you might not even know it was a pedal steel guitar. He can play the most soulful, sweetest country notes, or he can just rock out with Joe Ely and the best of them, and just make it sound like a different instrument.
Arlene R. Weiss: You’ve also featured many talented country pickers, such as Merle Travis, Jerry Reed, and of course, Chet Atkins, one of the world’s most influential players.
Terry Lickona: It was quite an honor to have somebody like Chet Atkins. For him to tell us that “Austin City Limits” is his favorite TV show to do, is the kind of compliment that you just can’t express in words, what that means, to be on and do our show and to have people of his stature think so highly of what we do. But yes, Chet has been on the show five times.
Arlene R. Weiss: You’ve also had players from Bluegrass and Western Swing such as Bill Monroe and Bob Wills and His Texas Playboys. Are there any special challenges for their equipment, gear, and so forth, being a completely different musical style….and being that they’re guitar pickers and that they play acoustic instruments?
Terry Lickona: In many respects it’s more challenging dealing with acoustic instruments than it is with electric. Sometimes, with a Bluegrass band, where the entire stage is filled with acoustic instruments and there are no amplifiers. There are no electric inputs and trying to strike the right balance, get the right sound, and to make sure there’s no feedback. That’s the biggest challenge of all, trying to control the feedback.
Arlene R. Weiss: There’s much more feedback with acoustic as opposed to electric?
Terry Lickona: Absolutely, especially when you’ve got seven or eight instruments on the stage at the same time and every acoustic player plays differently and some of them play right up on the microphone. The further they are from the microphone, the better the chance of feedback happening. The microphone has to be as close as possible to the instrument to reduce the chance of feedback. If the guitar player or mandolin player is playing within an inch of the microphone, that’s the best way to capture the sound. If they stand back a foot, then the sound can be more hollow. There’s also the chance for feedback because you have to raise the level and increase the level on the microphone to pick it up. That increases the ambient noise, the noise from the studio, and from the audience. From the monitor speakers onstage you get leakage from the speakers that are set up on the stage, which interferes with the sound of the instrument. Since we’re not recording our shows in a studio….If you were in a recording studio, you would have the drums in a separate booth, the piano in a separate booth. Sometimes all of the instruments would be separated by baffles, by acoustic panels that isolate each one of the instruments. But when we do it, it’s a live concert situation. We’ve got everybody up on stage together, and if you have a big drum set-up, those drums are going to leak into all of the microphones on stage. There’s no way to avoid it unless you put up a wall around the drummer, which wouldn’t look too good on TV. So that’s why it’s really important that if an artist is playing an acoustic instrument, they try to get as close to their microphone as possible, so that we can isolate that instrument as much as possible, and avoid the leakage, from the drums or from some other instrument on stage.
Arlene R. Weiss: What about B.B. King? He has a special fondness for his beloved Gibson, Lucille. Are there any special requirements in how he wants his guitar and his guitar set-up to be handled by the crew?
Terry Lickona: Not at all. B.B. is the most easygoing, laidback guy. I think he would be happy if he just stepped up on stage and had an amplifier that he could plug into, and he probably wouldn’t care what kind it was. He will basically take whatever he gets and he’s one of the least demanding guitar players and artists that we’ve worked with. The challenge when it comes to B.B. King and some other artists, is that they don’t often come in to rehearse or even to sound check. There are some cases where we have to wing it and just use our instincts. Their road crew will come in and they’ll set-up the amplifiers and the instruments on stage and the road crew will do a sound check. But, it’s not the same as actually having the musician get up there and play a few songs. Our preference, is to have the artist and the band come in and actually do a complete run through of the entire show that we’re going to tape that night. Most of them do. I would say ninety percent of the artists who have been on our show, will come in and do a complete rehearsal. It’s also crucial to the Director of the show, because that way the Director gets to chart the music. He knows when each guitar solo or other solo, is going to occur. He knows what the timing is on each verse or chorus, so that he can make sure that he has the camera in the right position to capture that. But, if we don’t get that complete sound check, if we don’t get a complete run through rehearsal of the show, then we just have to wing it, to make sure that we’ve got good shots of each of the solos, and that we know what’s happening on stage. Of course, we can always fix it in the mix. Everything is recorded on twenty four tracks, if not more tracks, and so if we don’t have the proper levels, they aren’t set quite right, we can always go back and fix it later.
Arlene R. Weiss: What about the unique pairing that you had with infamous Blues guitarist, Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown, and Roy Clark, equally infamous for being a great Country guitar picker? What was the impetus for such a pairing and especially, the feeling that their stylistic differences would successfully meld together for a wonderful unique whole?
Terry Lickona: That wasn’t even our idea, to be honest with you because at the time, “Gatemouth” Brown and Roy Clark had the same Manager. It was the Manager’s and perhaps their idea, to package them together as an act. They went out and played several dates together before they played our show.
Arlene R. Weiss: How did the audience react?
Terry Lickona: Oh, the audience loved it! Roy Clark actually loved “Gatemouth” Brown’s music, but if you know anything about “Gatemouth” Brown….When “Gatemouth” Brown is on stage, he is the center of attention, and he likes it that way. He’s so colorful and he has such an outgoing personality that it couldn’t be any other way.
Arlene R. Weiss: Because they are so stylistically different, were there any special things that the crew had to deal with in terms of their guitars, equipment, and gear, both separately and as a whole?
Terry Lickona: No back then, this was twenty years ago, it was really rather simple. They didn’t have a very complicated set-up. Roy Clark had just one amplifier, “Gatemouth” had his amplifier. “Gatemouth” is so flamboyant in his playing, whether he’s playing guitar or fiddle. He also has an outrageous sense of humor when he’s on stage. “Gatemouth” and Roy Clark were very compatible.
Arlene R. Weiss: You’ve featured unbelievable Blues artists, Buddy Guy, Albert Collins, Robert Cray, and Doyle Bramhall II. Each of them is quite a bit older or younger than one another, and also is from another, completely different generation, yet throughout each of their artistic careers, each of them have often performed live together, or co-headlined on the same bill at many internationally prestigious live venues, such as Robert Cray, Doyle Bramhall II, and Buddy Guy who all have often shared the same stage. Can you elaborate on the succession of these different generations performing with and honoring one another, of the joy that the older generation attains in passing the torch of this great traditional style of playing and form of music onto a young Blues guitar player who loves this style of music and wishes to keep it alive, and the joy they all attain in giving that back to the audience?
Terry Lickona: I think in Blues music, at least in Blues guitar, more than perhaps any other popular form of American music, there is more of that inheritance of style from one generation to another and the influence seems to be more present through the generations. Stevie Ray Vaughan and Jimmie Vaughan, for example, grew up listening to people like Albert King, B.B. King, and Albert Collins and that influence is very obvious in their own style. And Jonny Lang, Kenny Wayne Shepherd, and Doyle Bramhall II, and people like that are picking up that style through Stevie Ray and Jimmie, and so the influence continues to flow. Eric Clapton is another classic example of that. Eric Clapton has influenced so many guitar players himself, and yet he is really only a funnel for all of the older, legendary Blues guitar players who came before him.
Arlene R. Weiss: With most others styles of music, a lot of people don’t look at the musical history that came before. They think it’s just this generation. But with the Blues, even when you see interviews with Clapton and The Rolling Stones, especially, Keith Richards, they always talk about Robert Johnson, Muddy Waters, and Blind Lemon Jefferson, and those artists were around back in the 1920’s,1930’s, and 1940’s in the first half of this century.
Terry Lickona: Yes. Think about how Clapton and other artists went back to the earliest recordings of artists long since gone. There does seem to be more respect among Blues guitar players for their predecessors, for earlier generations going back to the beginning. And I think that’s great, that that continues to this day, right on up to the new crop of Blues guitarists in their teens.
Arlene R. Weiss: With Doyle Bramhall II, do you think that the music industry has pinned an awful lot of pressure, as well as hopes on him, to pick up this mantle from people like Stevie Ray Vaughan?
Terry Lickona: I think so. I think there’s a lot of pressure on artists today in general. Not only Blues guitarists, but any up and coming artist. There’s so much competition out there. The dynamics have changed. Except for Austin, there aren’t a lot, or there aren’t as many, live music venues in other cities around the country. The radio station’s formats have become so tight, not only pop, but country, you name it, any format. Even though there are many radio stations, it seems like fewer radio stations are willing to experiment and play younger, up and coming artists. The record labels are cutting back on their artists’ rosters. It makes it so much harder for a young musician. I know the pressure is tremendous on somebody like Doyle. He’s had a lot of great breaks. The fact that Doyle Bramhall II is represented by the same Management as Sheryl Crow is a tremendous opportunity for somebody like him. (Author’s note. This particular statement by Terry Lickona reflected the professional business circumstances of Doyle Bramhall II as of May 2000 when this interview was conducted and may no longer apply). His record company has put a lot of promotion behind him. But these days, if a record company doesn’t see results right after….
Arlene R. Weiss: Instantly…. They don't follow and develop you for twenty years like they did with Paul Simon and take chances as they did with him after he stopped collaborating with Art Garfunkle. They didn't just say, "Oh no, the formula's broken now." Instead, the record company stayed with him and then he successfully went on to do many other creative things, including World music with "Graceland ".
Terry Lickona: Right. If your first record doesn’t sell, you might not get a second chance.
Arlene R. Weiss: That’s it. And I think that’s terrible, because people need to be developed over the long haul and an artist….They forget the key word here. Most people in the music business, that’s just it. They look at it as a business, but a business is when you’re creating a widget or a product. An artist, well they need to make money, that’s the business part of it, but they’re still….there is no bottom line….They’re an artist, and they need time to create, blossom, evolve, and develop.
Terry Lickona: You’re absolutely right.
Arlene R. Weiss: What about W.C. Clark? He was an unbelievable mentor and elder statesman to Stevie Ray Vaughan and Jimmie Vaughan, and you had that tribute special to him that featured all three, along with Kim Wilson and Lou Ann Barton.
Terry Lickona: And Angela Strehli. That had to be one of the emotional highlights of our history. The special shows that we’ve done over the years like that, “A Tribute To Stevie Ray Vaughan”, the songwriters’ shows, those are the shows that really have a special resonance. Those are the shows that get the biggest response from our audience, the most calls, mail, and email, especially from people wanting to buy the videotapes. But the show with W.C. Clark, just because of who he was, the fact that he was like a father figure, a mentor to Stevie Ray and Jimmie. He was a lynchpin to the Austin Blues scene, going way back. And just the type of person that W.C. Clark is, he is such a sweet, very laidback kind of guy, totally humble and modest. He just does it for the love of the music and the love of the people around him. That sweetness and innocence really is part of his charm. And he’s such a great, soulful singer. One of the highlights of that show, was at the end, when W.C. came out and dedicated his last song to his eighty some year old mother who was in the audience, and it was Willie Nelson’s, “Funny How Time Slips Away”. To hear W.C. Clark sing a song, which of course, everybody associates with Willie Nelson as a Country song, and very few people would even dare sing a Willie Nelson song. He gave it such a soulful, almost Al Green style rendition that was just incredible. But W.C. just breathed a totally different life into it. But anyway, that was just one example of what made that show so special. It really was emotional having all those people on stage who cared and loved W.C. Clark so much,….and musically, the chemistry….Everybody was there for W.C.. They gave it their best shot. It was 110 percent from everybody.
Arlene R. Weiss: Getting back to Eric Johnson, being both a hometown and an international guitarist, born and raised in Austin, he’s continued to live there, to work there, to make his music there. When he made his very first appearance on “Austin City Limits”, that first appearance, from what I understand, helped to introduce him to the world and to the music industry, and helped to launch his career, resulting in his first major recording contract and record deal. What motivated you to give Eric his very first opportunity to showcase his extraordinary talents on the show in 1984 (which then later aired in 1985)?
Terry Lickona: Well, it was from having seen him play in the clubs around Austin. That’s still where I get the inspiration to book a lot of Austin talent. People like Junior Brown, for instance, having seen him perform live in a club. Nancy Griffith is another example. She had no major recording contract and was not really known outside of Austin at the time. But because of the fact that “Austin City Limits” has no restraints, we have no one from a network or sponsors who are looking over my shoulder telling me who we should book or not, we can take a chance. And if we think somebody has the raw talent and they deserve to be exposed so that people can see and hear it, we can book an Eric Johnson to do a show. I knew that once we had Eric on our stage in front of our cameras, that he would just blow people away. Sure enough, it wasn’t long after that, that Eric Johnson started appearing on the cover of “Guitar Player Magazine” and winning all of the popular awards for “Best Guitarist”, and got himself a major record contract and started selling records.
Arlene R. Weiss: What about when you have the chance, as in Eric’s case, where in his first appearance on the show, he performed his signature tune, “Cliffs of Dover” and his jazz piece, “Manhattan”, his tribute to Wes Montgomery, pieces that he recorded five and ten years later, down the road, but you had the opportunity to hear and see him perform those songs as a young man, long before they were ever released for the rest of the world to hear. What was it like to see and hear Eric Johnson’s very first appearance on “Austin City Limits”, as well as his performance of these radiant songs?
Terry Lickona: His first performance was spell-binding. I had seen him perform live in Austin clubs as part of the band, The Electromagnets, so I knew he was an exceptional talent. But I wasn’t sure how that would translate to TV, whether he would freeze or find the right groove. He was nervous, but as always happens when an artist hits our stage and feels that energy and love from the audience, he aced it.
Arlene R. Weiss: Can you reflect on the contrasts in how Eric has developed and evolved creatively from a young man, to a seasoned, mature artist, via his four performances over the years in 1984, 1988, 1997, and 2001 (2001 was taped in 2000 when this interview was conducted)?
Terry Lickona: The changes weren’t dramatic. They were more a gradual evolution from the young artist to the mature artisan. Eric has always been so precise and obsessive about his music and so he has always exuded control. The more he played, the more he recorded, the more he wrote, the better he got. I think that his basic style is unchanged from his early years, but perhaps his music is more eclectic and his self-confidence has risen.
Arlene R. Weiss: How has Eric’s resulting success based somewhat on his receiving his first National exposure on “Austin City Limits”, how does that make you and the crew feel? Is there a special sense of pride, satisfaction, and joy in that, knowing that you can help launch him and other artists?
Terry Lickona: Arlene, there’s a special sense of pride in just about everything we do. At the end of the day, or at the end of the night, after a show’s finished….you know, working on a Public Television series in Austin certainly is not the most lucrative way to make a living for any of us. We could have long ago, gone off and found work in commercial television or somewhere where we could make a lot more money. But the rewards that we get from doing our show, working with the caliber of artists ranging from the legends like B.B. King and Ray Charles, to the new kids like Jonny Lang and Doyle Bramhall II, and helping to discover people like Lyle Lovett and Nancy Griffith….and to give them the stage, a National stage where they can be seen by millions of people, gives us a tremendous sense of pride and satisfaction in what we do. And that extends right down to the entire staff, everybody who works on the show seems to feel that same sense, that pride in what we do. Being able to live and work in Austin just adds to it. We’re the big fish in the small pond here, whereas if we worked in Nashville or Los Angeles, we’d be one of many, many people who do the same thing.
Arlene R. Weiss: How does that feel, as in the case of Eric Johnson with his 1984 performance of “Cliffs of Dover”, “Manhattan”, as well as “Soulful Terrain” and “Bristol Shore”, with him and with other artists, when you get to hear those songs before they’re ever released, or maybe those songs are never released, but you have that special joy and opportunity to see and hear those songs?
Terry Lickona: And that happens a lot. We just recently for our current 25th season, did a songwriter’s show with Emmylou Harris, Patty Griffin, and Dave Matthews. Dave Matthews came on and he sang two songs that he had literally just written. He hadn’t even decided what they were called yet, he didn’t have a title for them. A lot of artists will come out and do that because they can. They don’t have to come out and just do their hits. They can come out and do songs that they just wrote yesterday or songs they’re still working on. If it works, we’ll keep it in the show, if it doesn’t work or they’re not satisfied with the way it came out, then we may not use it. I still think that a lot of these shows, whether it’s Eric Johnson or Stevie Ray Vaughan, or whomever, that I prefer the live performance that they give on our stage over the studio version.
Arlene R. Weiss: Yes, and the spontaneity. You just can’t capture that in a studio.
Terry Lickona: Sometimes, it’s just overproduced. When it’s done in the studio, it just doesn’t come across the same way as when it’s live.
Arlene R. Weiss: With Stevie Ray Vaughan, being such an unbelievable, legendary player, did he have any particular gear, guitars, or requirements that he needed when he would perform?
Terry Lickona: The biggest problem that we had with Stevie Ray Vaughan, and this happens sometimes with other guitar players, was getting him to turn the volume down on his amplifiers, because a lot of these guitar players of course, crank it up to the max! That’s the way they’re used to playing. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work as well when you’re in a tiny TV studio with only 450 people. Plus, technically, when it’s turned up that loud, it can create distortion when you’re trying to record. This is hard to explain to people sometimes, but when you’ve got a TV camera so close to the stage, literally five feet away, the distortion from the amplifier, if it’s too loud, it actually causes the camera to vibrate and it creates these ripples, a rippling effect in the picture, which almost looks like a Venetian blind. This of course, can destroy the entire picture of the show. So we often have to negotiate with an artist during rehearsal to please turn down the volume of their amplifier and explain why and sometimes they don’t understand. They think we’re just being pushy. But nine times out of ten, they understand. Sometimes, we’ll have to show them what happens and demonstrate what the problem is. The only problem we had with Stevie Ray, was just getting him to turn it down, which he did.
Arlene R. Weiss: Do you have any special fond anecdotes regarding the many types of guitars and set-ups? You’ve had artists who play Gibsons, Strats, Dobro, twelve string guitars. Junior Brown, what about his double necked….
Terry Lickona: Guit steel.
Arlene R. Weiss: That’s one of the most amazing looking guitars and he’s so proficient at it, yet he’s got this cute, hilarious sense of humor in some of his songs. The two go together.
Terry Lickona: And he’s so expressive in the way that he plays his music.
Arlene R. Weiss: Any fond or humorous anecdotes that you would like to relate?
Terry Lickona: Well, sometimes it’s just difficult keeping all of those guitars in tune, and it’s not our challenge, but it is for the guitar player or for his tuner, who may be along. We’re in a television studio, so it tends to be cooler than in most nightclubs or outdoor stages where they may be playing. It’s heavily air-conditioned because of all the bright studio lights that we have, and that can affect the tuning of an instrument. One especially fond moment that I have is when we did a show with Los Lobos back in the 1980’s. They were playing, remember their acoustic album, “La Pistola Y El Corazon”, meaning The Pistol and the Heart? Everything on it was acoustic. And they had the most gorgeous array of acoustic instruments that I have ever seen, including really exotic Vintage Mexican guitars with these big, kind of bowl shaped guitars. I can’t even tell you what they were called, but there must have been twenty of them that they had set-up on stage. Guitars, large acoustic bass guitars, different instruments, that were just beautiful. We took several pictures just of the instruments because it looked like a museum quality display of musical instruments.
Arlene R. Weiss: Aren’t there plans to release CD’s, videocassettes, and DVD’s highlighting some of the guitarists, particularly Stevie Ray Vaughan, as well as other premier guitarists’ performances on “Austin City Limits”?
Terry Lickona: We’re negotiating right now with a couple of different companies. We haven’t signed a deal with any of them yet, but I think we’re getting close, so that we can release some of the programs from our library, including DVD’s, videocassettes, and CD’s. I think you will see that happen and that there will actually be product out there before the end of this year. We’re also looking to the future, and hoping that in the years to come, we’ll be able to make some of these programs or certain songs available on the Internet.
Arlene R. Weiss: What about your website?
Terry Lickona: We’ve got a website. It’s not very elaborate. We would love to have a partner who could develop the website so that we could do video-streaming and webcasting.
Arlene R. Weiss: Or maybe even something interactive, where there’s MP3 music that you can download.
Terry Lickona: Well that would be my dream and it’s just a matter of time. It’s figuring out the rights issues, paying royalties, and so forth, but some day, I hope people will be able to go to an “Austin City Limits” website, check the entire Anthology of all of the shows that we’ve ever done, and pay a fee to download either one song from an artist, or an entire show.
Arlene R. Weiss: Regarding your 25th Anniversary Book that you put out last year which you know that I glowingly reviewed, it’s so comprehensive. You’ve been with the show for so many years, and there have been so many unbelievable performances, when it comes to the guitarists. There’s so many wonderful artists and so many memorable performances. Scott Newton, your house photographer for years, collaborated with you in choosing the photos for the book. How challenging a process was it to choose which artists, which particular performances, and significantly, which particular photos would most eloquently capture the very essence of each guitarist, or as you say on page 138, when referring to Eric Johnson, in how each artist, “Is at one with their guitar”?
Terry Lickona: Well, it was almost painful, is the best way to describe the process. First of all, Scott Newton and I did it all ourselves, without any other outside input, because we felt it was just too complicated to get a committee involved. We literally went through thousands and thousands of images, black and white, and color, from all these shows down through the years. We tried to pick images that are not your standard publicity shots of people standing there smiling. We did use some of those, of course, but we also looked for those special moments. On top of that, Scott and I collaborated on writing all of the captions for every photograph. They were written by one or both of us, and Scott wrote a lot of them himself from his personal perspective as a Photographer. Scott’s approach is to try to capture that special moment, that spirit, or as he calls it, “the muse”. I think we did a good job and I also hope that it’s helped people to discover our show. We’re also advertising the book on our shows now at the end of each program. People can call a 1-800 number and order it if they want to.
Arlene R. Weiss: When you get around to doing the videocassettes, DVD’s and CD’s, are you also going to advertise and promote them at the end of each show, so that people will know it’s available in stores and on your website? The availability of DVD’s, videocassettes, and CD’s is the number one question people keep asking about.
Terry Lickona: Well I have been frustrated for many years, because we get calls, we have been getting calls ever since they invented the CD, DVD Player, and the VCR, people calling and asking, “Is there any way that we can buy a video of that show?”, whatever show it happens to be. And up until now, it’s been basically impossible for us to do something like that on our own. It’s one thing to produce a program for Public Television, since it’s non-commercial, non-profit. But as soon as you start talking about legalities, rights and clearances. We don’t have the resources or the staff to deal with it. That’s why we need a partner, somebody, who does this sort of thing all the time and who has the money who can capitalize a venture like that. This 25th Anniversary that we just celebrated, has really helped us find the means to do these things. It’s been a tremendous promotion for the show in itself. We have been approached by people who are interested in distributing the shows Internationally, by several very prominent industry people who are interested in doing the videos and the CD’s, and even by people talking about doing a syndicated radio series with music from the past as well as new music, from the show. So, with all of these opportunities coming along in just the last few months, that’s why I say, we hope to close these deals so that we can start getting product out there, I hope by the end of this year, if not sooner.
Arlene R. Weiss: When it comes to guitarists, tell me about your strides to continue to attract and showcase world class guitar greats, as well as a continuous, supportive audience for these legendary guitar players.
Terry Lickona: It’s really not that difficult. Everybody knows about the show now. I could probably pick up the phone and call B.B. King’s Manager and set a date for him to come back and do a new show, because I know he loves the show and he loves coming back to do it. And people like Buddy Guy…. Of course, the problem is that a lot of these old guitar greats are no longer with us. One of the few who is still alive, but who has continued to resist my plea to perform on the show, is John Lee Hooker. I’m almost afraid that it may be too late, because although he’s still alive, I know he’s had some health problems. Understandably it’s his age. Both I and his Manager have begged and pleaded, but to no avail. So there aren’t as many of the great legends who are still either alive or in form and health to play. But we will continue to nurture the current, new generation, and I am constantly approached every day by people representing the latest, hot, fifteen year old guitar player who is “the next Stevie Ray Vaughan”, or whatever. Although I don’t just automatically book everybody who comes down the street, it’s reassuring to know that there are still people out there who are playing the traditional Blues, incorporated with their own style, their own touch added, as well as preserving that tradition that’s been going on for generations. So we don’t have to go out and beat the bushes like we used to. One of the greatest honors that the show has received was two years ago, when The Blues Foundation in Memphis awarded “Austin City Limits” with their special category called, “Keeping The Blues Alive” Award. I went to Memphis, to the annual Blues Foundation Awards Ceremony, and it was great to get that kind of recognition for what we have done over the years to not only preserve the legacy of the Blues, but to give these artists an opportunity to showcase their music to a National TV audience of millions of people who enjoy it and who don’t get to see it in many other places, if any.
Arlene R. Weiss: Right after I interviewed “Austin City Limits’” Terry Lickona that May 2000, also in May 2000, I then interviewed many of the esteemed and iconic music artists and guitarists who have appeared on “Austin City Limits” who below, fondly reflect on their appearances, performances, and creative experiences on the show.
“Austin City Limits” has meant a great deal to both Vaughan brothers. It is wonderful to see a quality, live music, TV show spotlighting Blues, Country, and Jazz in this age of video programs and MTV. I feel privileged and I always get excited to be a part of the show. I hope to do many more.”
Jimmie Vaughan
“While I have very happy memories of all of my appearances on “Austin City Limits”, the best was being able to perform with many of my good friends for the “A Tribute To Stevie Ray Vaughan”. When I can share a stage with B.B., Eric, Bonnie, Robert, Dr. John, Aaron, Jimmie, and all the others, that is special.”
Buddy Guy
“It wouldn’t be Texas without “Austin City Limits”!”
B.B. King
“Stevie Ray was thrilled to be asked to perform on “Austin City Limits”. It’s a wonderful show for promoting American music, and of course, that was when monumental things started to happen for Stevie and he became an International Star.”
Chesley P. Millikin-Reflecting on Stevie Ray Vaughan’s 1983 “Austin City Limits” performance, at which time, he was Stevie Ray’s Manager.
“Austin City Limits is one of the greatest things ever to come out of the State of Texas . It has helped expose a lot of people to real American roots music. My first appearance in 1976, reintroduced me to American audiences after a lull in my career. That appearance on “Austin City Limits”, led to a booking at the National Folklife Festival in Washington, D.C. , which led to a State Department tour of eight countries in Northeast Africa. It has been nonstop ever since!”
Clarence “Gatemouth” Brown
“It was an honor to be a part of “Austin City Limits” and following in the footsteps of some of my influences and heroes.”
Doyle Bramhall II
“Austin City Limits” has always been a program that I love to watch and I have always wanted to be a part of. The music is American and the audience is right there with you. You can’t beat it!”
Robert Cray
“I never imagined I could be a part of an institution that has featured many of my inspirations. Performing on “Austin City Limits” has been one of the biggest thrills in my career.”
Jonny Lang
“My first appearance on “Austin City Limits” was one of the turning points in my career that was greatly appreciated. I have always held the show in high regard, and I am always excited to be a part of it. Terry Lickona, Jeff Peterson, Susan Caldwell, and the whole crew are highly professional and easy to work with.”
Eric Johnson
“The first time that I ever watched “Austin City Limits”, Stevie Ray Vaughan was the guest. So for me, it was a great honor to be invited to perform on the show. I had a wonderful time, with wonderful people. I believe that “Austin City Limits” turned a lot of people on to my music that would not have otherwise, found it.”
Susan Tedeschi
“As far as “Austin City Limits”, I’ve done….I’ve lost count. I think it’s 16 or 17 shows. As far as being on the show, to me, they’ve set the standard for live music taping. They always have good sound. They’ve always got great camera shots. It’s the pinnacle of TV shows that bands and artists strive for. Terry Lickona has always maintained a great staff. My first show was with Joe Ely around 1977. And some of the same staff members, the same camera people are still there today. So when you’ve got people that have been around that long, you know it’s something good, that it’s a quality production. From a musician’s standpoint, they go above and beyond the call of duty to make you feel comfortable. It’s a real no pressure show. Everything about it is first class, and they have always treated the artists in a very comfortable manner. You know that when you are on that show, you have definitely made it as far as TV shows. They’ve set the standard for other live music shows to follow. From a guitar player’s standpoint, it’s the show to do.”
Lloyd Maines
© Copyright May 2000, June 5, 2000, June 19, 2011, August 2, 2017-2060 And In Perpetuity by Arlene R. Weiss-All Rights Reserved
Austin City Limits Producer Terry Lickona and I also discuss Susan Tedeschi when she was just starting out as an arrtist (and she gave me a brief quote at the end of my interview with Terry Lickona). We also discuss The Allman Brothers Band, Stevie Ray Vaughan & Jimmie Vaughan, Phish, Doyle Bramhall II, Eric Clapton, Robert Cray, B.B. King, Buddy Guy, Coco Montoya, Lloyd Maines, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Jonny Lang, Roy Clark, Clarence "Gatemouth" Brown, Eric Johnson, W.C. Clark, Willie Nelson, Bill Monroe, Chet Atkins, and MANY more.
Great read. I remember being younger and my dad ALWAYS watching Austin City Limits. Wish it was still on 🙁
Great read. I remember being younger and my dad ALWAYS watching Austin City Limits. Wish it was still on 🙁
Thank you for your kind words...ya missed this in my intro. article. ACL is still on!
"Some 17 years later, ACL is preparing for taping their 2017-2018, 43rd Season, which will host Jason Isbell, Herbie Hancock, Ed Sheeran, The Zac Brown Band, and many other music luminaries."
Here's their official website to check programming.
http://acltv.com/
Upcoming tapings too which by the way you can attend if you are visiting Austin.
http://acltv.com/upcoming-tapings/
[Edited on 8/3/2017 by ArleneWeiss]
