They can use facebook....YouTube....Instagram....twitter,.....and they can stand in apublic square and "say" what they want
When you physically incite violence in the name of an ideology you are now a terrorist
What ideology was being promoted?
I think your sig tells a lot about you: "Believing is alright, just don't believe in the wrong thing"
I guess it's funny that I have more liberal thinking than some of the liberals on this site.
What ideology is being promoted!? Again…
Here are my thoughts as to why I got into it with you previously. I felt that you greatly trivialized then and are doing it again now, an ORGANIZED invasion of armed Nazis and torchbearing Klan, maybe the largest gathering of race haters ever, into an American city, chanting the slogans of, wearing the clothing of, employing the tactics of (torches, murder - remember Heather Heyer?), and expressing admiration for (Adolf Hitler t-shirts) ideologies that went far beyond "free speech" - they actually led to the slaughter of millions of Jews, lynchings of innocents which were common practice until I was fifteen years old, and centuries of oppression and slavery. The oppression continues to this day. In the case of Nazism it took a goddam WORLD WAR to contain it. In the case of white supremacy in America, it took the goddam CIVIL WAR to contain it. Nazis were allowed to speak and operate freely in Germany, looked upon as beer-hall fringes, until one day they were in Poland, France, Italy, North Africa, Russia, Austria…if they hadn't hated Jewish physicists so much they could have easily had the bomb- they were pretty damn good at rocketry. It's not "protest" and "different opinions" - it's a murderous ideology and it's on the rise because the president and many of his advisers embrace this ideology. No need for sheets and hoods - suits and ties are fine now. No need to meet in the shadows anymore- Trump has our back.
This tells me that you have yet to understand what I have been saying.
Believe me, i probably know more of what happened during WWII than most of you. Virtually every aunt and uncle had the "shadow box" with the folded flag and the decorations of a son or husband who was killed in the war. My father was 100% disabled during the Battle of the Bulge. Uncles on both sides of my family that have died since 1945 have the veterans gravestones.
So don't start lecturing me about WWII. I'll ask you a question and let you think about it (actually 2).
Why did the soldiers go off to fight?
What protections of the Constitution has every soldier fought for since 1789?
I guess this starts a whole new movement?
No need. The American Indian Movement has been around since Columbus. Good revival since the 1970s. Have done a good job too.
I'm being dead serious; not being an a-hole. Symbol wasn't changed to Native American Movement?
You have a point. But if you comb your hair over it, it might not show.
Neo-Confederate Ideology: Allow those states who wish to use people as livestock to do so. They want a dominant white society where only white people can vote...there will be designated areas where people of color can sit, eat, drink, pee, poop....etc....They want the right to treat other humans as animals. Including whipping, maiming and killing if those livestock rebel against any other option. That also include people who are of the Catholic faith and many other people who don't follow Anglo-Saxon religious beliefs
This is what the people of the south want to hold on to as a "heritage" instead of acknowledgment of the crimes and a remorseful apology
Neo-Nazi Ideology: To have a supreme white dominant race that controls everything. Extermination of Jews, Gays, people with any mental or extreme physical disabilities or any person of color.
Did we really have to spell out the Ideology of hate
The flags they fly represent those ideologies
[Edited on 8/20/2017 by goldtop]
OK, well need some advice here. Am doing an art gallery show of portraits of Nazis.
Should I hang them or line them up against the wall?
Neo-Confederate Ideology: Allow those states who wish to use people as livestock to do so. They want a dominant white society where only white people can vote...there will be designated areas where people of color can sit, eat, drink, pee, poop....etc....They want the right to treat other humans as animals. Including whipping, maiming and killing if those livestock rebel against any other option. That also include people who are of the Catholic faith and many other people who don't follow Anglo-Saxon religious beliefs
This is what the people of the south want to hold on to as a "heritage" instead of acknowledgment of the crimes and a remorseful apology
Neo-Nazi Ideology: To have a supreme white dominant race that controls everything. Extermination of Jews, Gays, people with any mental or extreme physical disabilities or any person of color.
Did we really have to spell out the Ideology of hate
The flags they fly represent those ideologies
[Edited on 8/20/2017 by goldtop]
I've never met anyone who owns a slave. I've never owned a slave. No one in the south owns slaves.
So what crime are you talking about? Are you applying modern day morals to to those who lived in the 17th to 19th century?
If so, I don't think they can hear you bitch and moan about what they did back then, since they're all dead.
Would you be ok if someone took away mementos/heirlooms from your ancestors?
Are you ok with eradication of the past?
Try the rule we used in the old ABB Listserve. Wait 24 hours before you post about anything that made you angry. Think, then post.
None of my ancestors are traitors....If they were I wouldn't be making excuses about what they did. I would acknowledge the crimes with a remorsefully apologize and never raise the flag of treason again.
The fact that no one in the south owns slave is because that ideology was defeated yet you think we should celebrate the acts of treason and slavery and wave a flag that represents that and have monuments celebrating the leaders
How about they just fly the American flag....not the flag of treason
Now if you can't come to terms with the facts that's another issue
[Edited on 8/21/2017 by goldtop]
Are you ok with eradication of the past?
Taking down a statue does not eradication of any past make.
I learned that in Statue Class junior year of high school.
Since there are many different ways to honor a heritage, why must their method involve ditching the American flag for some other? How is this different than what Colin Kaepernick has done? I sure hope the confederate flag loyalists aren't criticizing him, otherwise that would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
Since there are many different ways to honor a heritage, why must their method involve ditching the American flag for some other? How is this different than what Colin Kaepernick has done? I sure hope the confederate flag loyalists aren't criticizing him, otherwise that would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
I don't get it either. Since the end of the Civil war they have yet to acknowledge the crimes with a passionate remorseful apology and instead they stand in defiance while they wave the flag that supported the ideology of slavery.
We know we can't change the past but to heal from it always take acknowledgement and a remorseful apology.
You aren't confederates anymore and you haven't been since 1865. Support the American flag and American values. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of being from the south...It takes a bigger person to acknowledge the wrongs and seek forgiveness than to stand in defiance and continue to wave the flag
Since there are many different ways to honor a heritage, why must their method involve ditching the American flag for some other? How is this different than what Colin Kaepernick has done? I sure hope the confederate flag loyalists aren't criticizing him, otherwise that would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
I don't get it either. Since the end of the Civil war they have yet to acknowledge the crimes with a passionate remorseful apology and instead they stand in defiance while they wave the flag that supported the ideology of slavery.
________________________________________________________________________________________And what crimes would that be? Again, you are applying present day laws to the 1600's to late 1800's.
Why should anyone apologize for something that happen over 150 years ago.
Slavery happened under the British, French, Spanish, and later, American flag before the Confederacy was formed. So which flag are you referring to. They all represent slavery.
________________________________________________________________________________________We know we can't change the past but to heal from it always take acknowledgement and a remorseful apology.
________________________________________________________________________________________Again, read above response.
________________________________________________________________________________________You aren't confederates anymore and you haven't been since 1865. Support the American flag and American values. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of being from the south...It takes a bigger person to acknowledge the wrongs and seek forgiveness than to stand in defiance and continue to wave the flag
________________________________________________________________________________________
So you will quit flying the American flag?
It is you who is not embracing American values. Freedom of speech, freedom of protest, freedom of expression, the freedom of equal protection under the law, all seem to be only your freedoms and not others.
Learn history before you start to jump up on your soapbox.
Learn history before you condemn others.
For the record, I want us all to do whatever the hell we want to do without a hostile reaction from our peers. Fly the confederate flag, kneel during the anthem, do whatever you need to do as long as you are not hurting or having an adverse material affect on anyone. No need to agree on it - just have to be civil about it. The problem begins, not with the flag waving or the kneeling, but when the masses on both sides go into hysteria attack mode.
The fact that people keep putting Nazis on the same level as BLM is very telliing
Nazi Lives Matter.
Nothing says "I'm proud to be from the south" more than flying a flag representing a war you lost.
Hey 2112 have you read Confederates In the Attic by Tony Horowitz?
Since there are many different ways to honor a heritage, why must their method involve ditching the American flag for some other? How is this different than what Colin Kaepernick has done? I sure hope the confederate flag loyalists aren't criticizing him, otherwise that would be the ultimate hypocrisy.
I don't get it either. Since the end of the Civil war they have yet to acknowledge the crimes with a passionate remorseful apology and instead they stand in defiance while they wave the flag that supported the ideology of slavery.
________________________________________________________________________________________And what crimes would that be? Again, you are applying present day laws to the 1600's to late 1800's.
Why should anyone apologize for something that happen over 150 years ago.
Slavery happened under the British, French, Spanish, and later, American flag before the Confederacy was formed. So which flag are you referring to. They all represent slavery.
________________________________________________________________________________________We know we can't change the past but to heal from it always take acknowledgement and a remorseful apology.
________________________________________________________________________________________Again, read above response.
________________________________________________________________________________________You aren't confederates anymore and you haven't been since 1865. Support the American flag and American values. That doesn't mean you can't be proud of being from the south...It takes a bigger person to acknowledge the wrongs and seek forgiveness than to stand in defiance and continue to wave the flag
________________________________________________________________________________________
So you will quit flying the American flag?
It is you who is not embracing American values. Freedom of speech, freedom of protest, freedom of expression, the freedom of equal protection under the law, all seem to be only your freedoms and not others.
Learn history before you start to jump up on your soapbox.
Learn history before you condemn others.
The lefties know little about actual history.
The people in the Northern States also owned slaves.
The Africans who sold slaves to the Spanish Traders owned slaves themselves.
The American Flag flew over the slave states for 89 years but you don't hear the lefties calling for the removal of The American Flag.
The so-called "Confederate flag " the lefties hate is not the flag of the Confederacy.
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
The lefties know little about actual history.
The people in the Northern States also owned slaves.
Abolished by 1804.
The Africans who sold slaves to the Spanish Traders owned slaves themselves.
So you are saying blacks are to blame for enslaving themselves. Whites were simply availing themselves of the windfall benefit of an African institution. Thanks for setting the record straight, sensei.
The American Flag flew over the slave states for 89 years but you don't hear the lefties calling for the removal of The American Flag.
After 89 years every Union flag was removed from the slave states. Took a civil war to put it back up.
The so-called "Confederate flag " the lefties hate is not the flag of the Confederacy.
It is simply a different design in a group of flags that all mean the same thing.
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
Then why are all your baldhead jackbooted thug pals marching around with Nazi flags? Don't they know it is the emblem of the modern liberal?
Appears the ultrawrong, I mean ultraright doesn't know its history as well. Maybe you should troll their websites too and help them see reason.
[Edited on 8/22/2017 by BrerRabbit]
For the record, I want us all to do whatever the hell we want to do without a hostile reaction from our peers. Fly the confederate flag, kneel during the anthem, do whatever you need to do as long as you are not hurting or having an adverse material affect on anyone. No need to agree on it - just have to be civil about it. The problem begins, not with the flag waving or the kneeling, but when the masses on both sides go into hysteria attack mode.
I totally agree with you.
[
Then why are all your baldhead jackbooted thug pals marching around with Nazi flags? Don't they know it is the emblem of the modern liberal?
[Edited on 8/22/2017 by BrerRabbit]
Really? When did that happen?
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
You think the neo-nazis voted for Hillary?
There are a couple of people here who do not understand the difference between socialism and neo socialism. They are not interchangeable.
[Edited on 8/22/2017 by jkeller]
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
You think the neo-nazis voted for Hillary?
Obviously. Never mind all the red hats.
Then why are all your baldhead jackbooted thug pals marching around with Nazi flags? Don't they know it is the emblem of the modern liberal?
Really? When did that happen?
Really? You have to ask that? Let's just assume you are being deliberately obtuse. Because if not, you are pig ignorant and blind.
Here are images from Charlottesville, clearly showing misguided White Supremacists displaying flags that represent the values of evil liberals.
here is the National Socialist Movement USA flag at Charlottesville, haha dumbsh!ts don't even know they are promoting the Democratic ideal. the NSM also stands for National Socialists Matter:
Maybe Muleman ought to go and have a word with these idiots, teach them all about who the real Nazis are.
The lefties know little about actual history.
The people in the Northern States also owned slaves.
Abolished by 1804.
The Africans who sold slaves to the Spanish Traders owned slaves themselves.
So you are saying blacks are to blame for enslaving themselves. Whites were simply availing themselves of the windfall benefit of an African institution. Thanks for setting the record straight, sensei.
The American Flag flew over the slave states for 89 years but you don't hear the lefties calling for the removal of The American Flag.
After 89 years every Union flag was removed from the slave states. Took a civil war to put it back up.
The so-called "Confederate flag " the lefties hate is not the flag of the Confederacy.
It is simply a different design in a group of flags that all mean the same thing.
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
Then why are all your baldhead jackbooted thug pals marching around with Nazi flags? Don't they know it is the emblem of the modern liberal?
Appears the ultrawrong, I mean ultraright doesn't know its history as well. Maybe you should troll their websites too and help them see reason.
[Edited on 8/22/2017 by BrerRabbit]
Not even close.
Your public school education is showing again son.
The facts are apolitical in the real world.
Does Mule really believe the neo-nazis vote Democrat? Amazing!
Pick one... if you fly it as a part of your heritage you support slavery to this day because they all represent that ideology....not what you want them to represent or how you "feel"
Some very old tired arguments...and ya all got to speak so no suppression of the 1st amendment here...but all I heard was justifications for "feelings" instead of realization of facts and the history of those ideologies
[Edited on 8/23/2017 by goldtop]
[Edited on 8/23/2017 by goldtop]
The people in the Northern States also owned slaves.
Abolished by 1804.
________________________________________________________________________________________
Slave ownership lasted until early 1866 in Delaware, Maryland (union state), Kentucky (Union state), actually, before the start of the "Civil War" there were 451,021 slaves held in Northern states. There were only 14 states in the US that officially had no slaves. Lil ole New Jersey even had slaves.
________________________________________________________________________________________
The Africans who sold slaves to the Spanish Traders owned slaves themselves.
So you are saying blacks are to blame for enslaving themselves. Whites were simply availing themselves of the windfall benefit of an African institution. Thanks for setting the record straight, sensei.
________________________________________________________________________________________
A correction is needed here. Spanish traders dealt mostly in the locals as slaves.
Muslim raiders captured a fair amount, but most were sold from the local chieftain if there wasn't a sustainable food supply, or if they had captured warriors in a local tribal conflict.
The barter was for iron goods and bracelets made of copper called "Manillas".
________________________________________________________________________________________
The American Flag flew over the slave states for 89 years but you don't hear the lefties calling for the removal of The American Flag.
After 89 years every Union flag was removed from the slave states. Took a civil war to put it back up.
________________________________________________________________________________________
It still flew over slavery for 89 years. Why aren't you calling for it's removal?
________________________________________________________________________________________
The word Nazi comes from the German Nationalist Socialist Party whose political agenda aligns with that of the Democrat socialists of today.
________________________________________________________________________________________
It was the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Ultra right, then turned Facist.
[Edited on 8/22/2017 by BrerRabbit]
Why aren't you calling for it's removal?
Good question. And it is absolutely fair that in any debate about flags that scrutiny would fall upon the Union flag as well, as it certainly has its share of dirt.
For the record, I never called for the removal of any flag. If the general consensus is that a flag is distressing then common decency usually prevails in the USA, as I feel it has in the case of the Confederate symbol.
If the Union flag becomes an issue for those with a heritage of oppression associated with that symbol, then I see no reason why it can't be changed. It has changed to reflect our changing country many times.
Perhaps it is time for new flag. Or at least add some symbols to it that honor people who feel left out by its current design. Maybe a medicine wheel to honor Native Americans, some non-Confederate nod to the sacrifice of Southerners both white and black, something for the Chinese who built the West, the Mexicans who got the food from the fields to our plates, and so on.
Which in a way is all moot, as that is exactly what our flag does represent by now, the whole patchwork spectrum of our beautiful, crazy, conflicted, yet free country.
That's the best I can figure on the flag thing.
Why aren't you calling for it's removal?
Good question. And it is absolutely fair that in any debate about flags that scrutiny would fall upon the Union flag as well, as it certainly has its share of dirt.
For the record, I never called for the removal of any flag. If the general consensus is that a flag is distressing then common decency usually prevails in the USA, as I feel it has in the case of the Confederate symbol.
If the Union flag becomes an issue for those with a heritage of oppression associated with that symbol, then I see no reason why it can't be changed. It has changed to reflect our changing country many times.
Perhaps it is time for new flag. Or at least add some symbols to it that honor people who feel left out by its current design. Maybe a medicine wheel to honor Native Americans, some non-Confederate nod to the sacrifice of Southerners both white and black, something for the Chinese who built the West, the Mexicans who got the food from the fields to our plates, and so on.
Which in a way is all moot, as that is exactly what our flag does represent by now, the whole patchwork spectrum of our beautiful, crazy, conflicted, yet free country.
That's the best I can figure on the flag thing.
The current US flag has is less than 100 years old. It never flew over the US during a period of slavery, so this whole argument is silly and nothing more than a red herring.
Hahaha and here I thought I made this great unifying speech, getting all patriotic, with low martial symphonic swells fading in - as the star spangled banner unfurls and ripples against a cerulean sky . . .
But no, just another pointless tack on the Ship of Fools.
