It's a good figure, but a consensus of financial people I have heard have been expecting a big GDP 2nd quarter for months. Revisions can be key as well. 4th qrt '17 was originally reported as 2.6, then revised to 2.5 before ultimately being revised to 2.9 on the 4th and final revision. Q1 '18 was expected to be weak as it often is (revised down to 2%) and 2nd qrt was expected to be strong, which at 4.1% is strong. It will be interesting to see where the revisions on it go. Revisions do not get the headlines the initial release gets. Analysts were expecting anywhere from 3.5-5.1% Q2.
As many have said here, and some of the quoted articles state, a good quarterly number here or there isn't what is needed. We need sustained 3% growth to increase government revenue in the face of higher debt and deficit spending. Obviously it is very debatable (and political) if that kind of annual figure is attainable and sustainable.
Did a boost in higher soybean exports occur and move GDP higher? I can see that. Year-to-date soybean exports are quite a bit higher 2018 compared to 2017. While some have said the reason for this is distributors stocked up to beat the China tariff, others have explained that the drop in the commodity price incentivized other nations to increase their purchases. China's soybean demand is unmatched for sure, but there are other nations the US can sell soybeans to and those markets could be expanded. It is just a matter of what the price for the crop is, with China's retaliatory tariff on US imports, their encouragement to spur more domestic Chinese growth along with increasing purchases from other soy producing countries who will likely be increasing their own output to meet new higher demand all will continue to have negative impact on the commodity price.
Here is an idea...China is accused of trans-shipping steel and aluminum into the US market. This is because there are already 20+ tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminum products coming into the US market so China ships it's product to a host of countries so it can then be imported in the US via that country and therefore tariff free. This is where the latest steel and aluminum tariff thing comes from. Well, US exporters of soybeans can do the same thing really to enter the Chinese market tariff free. I would have to think these kind of shenanigans have been going on in global trade forever. Next thing you know China will be putting tariffs on South Korean soybeans because they are suspected of trans-shipping US exports.
The US government has programs for US workers displaced by trade related job losses, so in that vein it could be entirely benign that assistance extended to farmers hurt by a trade issue. To some everything has to be politically motivated I suppose. Maybe it is and maybe it isn't. But offering aid to individuals negatively effected by US trade policy is standard practice.
Perhaps the soy crop and related export in this country has grown too large and both small time farmers and corporate giants have become too dependent on it. The growth in the US soy crop has grown enormously in the last 30 years. There is something to be said for diversification in all walks of life, it applies to farming as well. You have swings in commodity prices, disease, years of drought and things that negatively effect one ag product or another. When all your eggs are in one basket you can get burned. This could lead to more of a shift towards wheat, cotton, rice, sorghum, oats, etc. Or even more corn or other products for biofuels. Plus I see plenty of fruits and vegetables at my grocery store that are coming from Central America and Mexico that can be grown here. There is opportunity for farmers to rely less upon soybean exports, perhaps some became too dependent on them in the first place.
[Edited on 7/29/2018 by nebish]
So is the deficit. Tax cuts and uncontrolled spending won’t work to sustain growth
POTUS is already only concerned about being re-elected Scary to think how out of control he could be during a second term.
[Edited on 7/29/2018 by CB]
Now suddenly the lefties talking about deficit and or debt.
Not a peep from them while Obama racked up more national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined.
It’s all good.
President Trump’s economic policies have the U.S. economy running better than it has in decades and his approval ratings continue to rise.
Anyone notice that the Democrats, with the mid-term elections about 3 months away never talk about the economy, jobs or anything else that actually matters to the American people?
Now suddenly the lefties talking about deficit and or debt.
Not a peep from them while Obama racked up more national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined.
It’s all good.
President Trump’s economic policies have the U.S. economy running better than it has in decades and his approval ratings continue to rise.
Anyone notice that the Democrats, with the mid-term elections about 3 months away never talk about the economy, jobs or anything else that actually matters to the American people?
First of all, Obama didn't add more debt than all previous presidents combined. However, a ton of debt was accumulated mostly due to the terrible economy at the beginning of his term as the US was recovering from the great recession. However, the deficit decreased year after year adter that except his last year. Now that Trump is in office with a "good economy," the deficit should be going down and the US should work on paying off the debt - but instead the deficit is exploding again. The deficit in 2017 was 3.5% of GDP. In 2022 and beyond the CBO estimates at 5.4% of GDP, and that assumes a healthy economy. This is a direct result of Trump's policies. I know Trump is used to taking out big loans on his businesses and not paying them back, but that's not how government works.
Now suddenly the lefties talking about deficit and or debt.
The funny part is how it doesn't seem to matter anymore to the righties .... 
Not a peep from them while Obama racked up more national debt than all previous 43 presidents combined.
Translation: I’m ashamed that a black man can make me look like a homeless person in comparison.
President Trump’s economic policies have the U.S. economy running better than it has in decades and his approval ratings continue to rise.
But your daddy still won’t pat you on the back.
Anyone notice that the Democrats, with the mid-term elections about 3 months away never talk about the economy, jobs or anything else that actually matters to the American people?
No. Get over it snowflake.
[Edited on 7/30/2018 by BoytonBrother]
Personally, I cannot complain, my stocks are rocking and rolling and I loved my tax cut at the beginning of the year. Also, I live in a divided house, my wife is not a Trump fan at all, but yet she will still admit that her earnings and labor demand has never been greater than ever.
And, lots of people still tend to blame politics for what was ultimately a "bad decision" they made at one time.
Let's call a spade a spade.
If your job/salary is not where you want it to be, then leave. If you say you can't leave because of "yada, yada, excuse" then its probably the result of a decision you have made.
Personally, I cannot complain, my stocks are rocking and rolling and I loved my tax cut at the beginning of the year. Also, I live in a divided house, my wife is not a Trump fan at all, but yet she will still admit that her earnings and labor demand has never been greater than ever.
Sounds like you are crediting Trump for your rocking stocks, tax cuts, and your wife’s earnings and labor demand.
And, lots of people still tend to blame politics for what was ultimately a "bad decision" they made at one time.
Let's call a spade a spade.
If your job/salary is not where you want it to be, then leave. If you say you can't leave because of "yada, yada, excuse" then its probably the result of a decision you have made.
Sounds like you are crediting individuals for their financial situation, in which I’d agree. Why are your financial improvements because of Trump, but a poor salary is because of a bad personal decision? Is it personal accountability or not?
I do care about the national debt and annual spending deficits. On one hand it just seems so large that it will be impossible to pay down, but on the other hand it doesn't make sense to continue adding to it each and every year.
I am very supportive of the corporate tax reform that was passed, and based on comments at the time, had the bill solely focused on that and that alone more than a few Democrats would've supported it as well.
I did not believe that the timing was right for personal tax cuts. As a rule I always believe that people should keep more of what they earn, but when looked at tax cuts as a tool in the government tool box I would've saved that for another day and time. Simply, the economy in my opinion did not need it then or now. And I also disagree with eliminating SALT deductions. Income paid out in obligated state and local taxes should be deductible in my opinion. Plus it feels politically targeted and I do not like that either.
So corporate tax reform, yes. Individual tax cuts this go around, no.
Then you have the government spending side of the equation. I would've rather they kept the sequester cuts than the spending package they passed earlier this year. Cuts across the board, including defense, should be in order. And if we don't want to or can't cut social programs, I would like to see small incremental tax increases for those programs. If your money was taken from you for these programs you deserve benefits of those programs. If we can't pay the benefit then we have to raise the amount we are taking from people to sustain it.
But it is just easier to borrow more money from foreign countries and pretend like nothing bad will ever happen for continuing to do so. That is wrong and should not be how our government functions.
I wanted to touch on the wage issue as well.
It is hard for anyone to say what IPowrie or whomever should do with their job situation. That is solely up to them for reasons that are or are not important to them. If somebody has accumulated nice paid vacation time, or is vested in some kind of retirement program or whatever it is, simply getting more hourly pay or annual salary may not offset losing some other important benefits that time with one employer has produced.
Just from some people in my life, a good friend of mine is a welder. He knows if he left his current job he could make more money. But he has a very good relationship with his boss in a good work environment and that is worth something to him compared to the unknown of another job. Different people may make different decisions.
Another friend of mine in the insurance industry thought he was making good money at his old job until the work load just became unbearable (employer wasn't replaced departed workers or hiring new so just kept putting more and more work on remaining employees). He left for another insurance company and is making better money and hasn't encountered the same problems he had before.
One of my best friends manages a distribution warehouse where the company does not pay good entry level wages and it is a revolving door of people in and out as people continually leave for better pay in other nearby warehouses. He would like to offer more 1) to keep workers and 2) to attract better workers. As it is the people they get at the wage they are paying do not have the greatest work ethic. But it is hard sometimes to get large companies to realize things like that and authorize higher wages.
People can get pay increases, but they likely have to leave their current job to do so. Many employers do not appreciate the current workers they have and do not reward them enough with pay or benefit increases, but when those workers they may be taking for granted leave, they often have to offer more pay to get the same caliber employee they just lost. I guess it is kind of like your bank that offers new customers great rates, but the existing customers can't get those promo deals without bringing new money to the bank.
Maybe it is just kind of a game we all play, life, us, them, work, free time, income and fitting it all into our own equation to produce whatever decision it is we make. It does seem that in most corners of the economy this is a great time to put out the feelers and see if something better can be had, often it can right now. If that is right for any given person is up to them.
I’m ashamed that a black man can make me look like a homeless person in comparison.
What does the color of the President's skin have to do with it?
What does the color of the President's skin have to do with it?
I believe it’s the root of why the right hates him.
What does the color of the President's skin have to do with it?
I believe it’s the root of why the right hates him.
Pathetic
Pathetic
I will exchange ideas and thought with anyone at anytime, until it becomes argumentative. One should be able to share a thought and hear an opposing view. If you disagree, you should be able to depart, knowing you've made the attempt. Seeing and hearing frustration because you will not continue to engage when there is no possibility in your mind of finding common ground is the red flag that tells me the attempt at conversation has come to an end. It's OK to just, walk away.
LOL, ok! You sound like one conflicted dude.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
- William F. Buckley
Article today from Terry Savage. Her previous article was about personal debt rising to over $1 trillion in the US. At my financial adviser's last meeting they said inflation was up 2.8% (including gas and food). They said they thought the fed was raising rates even though the numbers don't support it, because if we go into a recession they won't have any tools available to them if the rates are already low.
The economy has always reminded me of one of those squishy toys that children so enjoy. If you squeeze the middle, the ends get distorted. If you squeeze one end, the other end bulges and changes shape. Same thing with the economy: If you change trade policy or interest rates or tax rates, the results are felt far from the part you squeezed.
That’s exactly what’s happening now. And as a result you’re going to hear more about subjects that haven’t been in the economic headlines for at least a decade, like inflation, rising prices and the value of the dollar. It’s time to get prepared.
Inflation on its way
The simplest definition of inflation is rising prices — although economists will tell you it’s all about money creation. We are definitely starting to see rising prices as the result of tariffs. When we put taxes on imports — whether they come from China or any other part of the world — those taxes are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Manufacturers that import everything from computer parts to tires to washing machines will try to hold prices steady so consumers aren’t turned off. But in the end they will raise prices just to stay in business. Whether it’s raw materials (think fresh vegetables from Mexico) or telephone handsets, prices will move higher.
And as the higher prices deter consumer buying, the slowdown will be felt by retailers and manufacturers alike. Instead of saving jobs, the tariffs will cost jobs. But it will take a while for the effects to be felt.
In the end, inflation is a monetary issue. Because if you fear that prices will be higher in the future, it means that your dollar will buy less. So workers will demand higher wages to pay for the increased cost of living. And higher wages mean more money chasing after things to buy, pushing prices even higher.
In the end, no one is better off with inflation. Just ask Venezuela, which is suffering with a 46,000 percent — yes forty-six thousand! — inflation rate this month. There are no basic supplies of food and water available at any price for worthless Venezuelan currency. And Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, so the country should be wealthy. But it can’t pay workers to keep its refineries operating.
Higher interest rates follow
Future inflation expectations inevitably drive interest rates higher. It’s not just the Fed announcing small rate hikes that drives rates. It’s the marketplace where lenders of dollars, fearing that inflation will result in less buying power for the dollar, will demand higher interest rates to compensate.
Politicians can blame the Fed for their small increases. But once the global marketplace decides that the United States dollar is losing value because of inflation, there will be no way to stop rates from rising. After all, we have so much debt — more than $20 trillion — that we must keep borrowing, and paying the price in higher interest rates.
On a personal basis, debt will become a huge burden as monthly payments rise. Think of your credit card bills and your adjustable rate mortgage or home equity loan.
Downside of a strong dollar
But there is another negative aspect of higher interest rates. If U.S. rates move higher than those in other countries, our currency will become more attractive and rise in value against other countries. This “strong” dollar makes our exports more expensive because foreign buyers will have to scrape together more Euros, for example, to buy one dollar’s worth of our manufactured goods. As a result, sales of U.S. products are likely to drop, resulting in layoffs at our factories. Obviously, that was not the intended result when tariffs were imposed.
All these impacts, and we haven’t even mentioned retaliatory tariffs. They pose the potential to cost jobs everywhere from the farm belt to manufacturing to technology to retailing. The tariffs could be the biggest “squish” of all!
That’s the thing with economics. Our economy and the global economy are indeed inter-connected, like a giant squishy toy — with bulges and odd results taking place far from the original squeeze. And that’s The Savage Truth.
https://www.terrysavage.com/squishing-the-economy/
Personally, I cannot complain, my stocks are rocking and rolling and I loved my tax cut at the beginning of the year. Also, I live in a divided house, my wife is not a Trump fan at all, but yet she will still admit that her earnings and labor demand has never been greater than ever.
Sounds like you are crediting Trump for your rocking stocks, tax cuts, and your wife’s earnings and labor demand.
And, lots of people still tend to blame politics for what was ultimately a "bad decision" they made at one time.
Let's call a spade a spade.
If your job/salary is not where you want it to be, then leave. If you say you can't leave because of "yada, yada, excuse" then its probably the result of a decision you have made.Sounds like you are crediting individuals for their financial situation, in which I’d agree. Why are your financial improvements because of Trump, but a poor salary is because of a bad personal decision? Is it personal accountability or not?
My financial improvements this year are due to an external source (Trump/economic policy), not a result of my personal decisions.
--As tax rate drops, my net income goes up. <- tax rate decrease is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of policy.
--As stocks continue to go up, my portfolio "income" increases <- the increase is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of economic condition.
--As household income improves throughout the economy, my wife (a realtor) has greater labor demand which leads to greater potential earnings <- again not the result of an action or personal decision by my wife, this is a result of economic condition
Now, regarding the personal decision aspect leading to "undesirable" salaries.
You choose how much time to invest in your education, you choose how much time to invest in your career, you can't go through life waiting to get lucky or hit your "big break". If you can't that desirable job, then you didn't do what you needed to do to earn that job.
I guess in summary, work hard and plan long term, don't blow through school/life and expect to be handed a 6 figure salary, you didn't earn it. The harder you work, the luckier you get.
disclaimer; All IMHO, not here to argue with you cats, just expressing opinion.
[Edited on 7/30/2018 by anthonyspare]
My financial improvements this year are due to an external source (Trump/economic policy), not a result of my personal decisions.
You didn’t choose your career?
--As tax rate drops, my net income goes up. <- tax rate decrease is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of policy.
You didn’t choose your career?
--As stocks continue to go up, my portfolio "income" increases <- the increase is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of economic condition.
Were you forced to buy stocks?
--As household income improves throughout the economy, my wife (a realtor) has greater labor demand which leads to greater potential earnings <- again not the result of an action or personal decision by my wife, this is a result of economic condition
Who chose her profession? Who forced her to get a real estate license? Who tells her wake up each morning and make calls?
I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m just surprised that someone can bust their butt their whole life to be successful, make your own life choices, and then credit politicians for it. I’ve seen friends and relatives get very rich in the past 10 years by opening their own businesses. To suggest it’s about Trump is funny to me.
My financial improvements this year are due to an external source (Trump/economic policy), not a result of my personal decisions.
You didn’t choose your career?
--As tax rate drops, my net income goes up. <- tax rate decrease is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of policy.
You didn’t choose your career?
--As stocks continue to go up, my portfolio "income" increases <- the increase is NOT a result of my action or personal decision, it's a result of economic condition.
Were you forced to buy stocks?
--As household income improves throughout the economy, my wife (a realtor) has greater labor demand which leads to greater potential earnings <- again not the result of an action or personal decision by my wife, this is a result of economic condition
Who chose her profession? Who forced her to get a real estate license? Who tells her wake up each morning and make calls?
I’m not trying to argue with you. I’m just surprised that someone can bust their butt their whole life to be successful, make your own life choices, and then credit politicians for it. I’ve seen friends and relatives get very rich in the past 10 years by opening their own businesses. To suggest it’s about Trump is funny to me.
I totally agree and get what you're saying but I think there is a little misunderstanding. Nowhere did I credit Trump for my initial successes (college/finding a career/wife finding a career). I am strictly talking about my improvements financially this year, as stated in my original post. Trump didn't find my job for me or complete my MBA for me or turn my wife into a realtor. That is a result of our personal decisions and hard work. I simply credited Trump and our economic policy for the tax rate drop, rise in some stocks, and wife's current professional demand due to economic condition. Those three things cannot be controlled by myself or my wife. They are a result of real-world economics and monetary policy.
--I, myself, chose my career path but cannot take credit for the tax reduction as it was not a result of something I did.
--I, myself, chose to buy stocks but I, myself, did not make their value increase.
--My wife chose to be a realtor, but she did not decide to improve the demand of the housing market.
I simply credited Trump and our economic policy for the tax rate drop, rise in some stocks, and wife's current professional demand due to economic condition. Those three things cannot be controlled by myself or my wife. They are a result of real-world economics and monetary policy.
--I, myself, chose my career path but cannot take credit for the tax reduction as it was not a result of something I did.
--I, myself, chose to buy stocks but I, myself, did not make their value increase.
--My wife chose to be a realtor, but she did not decide to improve the demand of the housing market.
I can see your point about the taxes I guess, but you’re not selling me that the stock market and housing market is because of Trump. Stocks go up and down constantly - will you fault Trump when the stock market goes down in the future? Do you blame George W Bush for the housing collapse? I don’t.
I simply credited Trump and our economic policy for the tax rate drop, rise in some stocks, and wife's current professional demand due to economic condition. Those three things cannot be controlled by myself or my wife. They are a result of real-world economics and monetary policy.
--I, myself, chose my career path but cannot take credit for the tax reduction as it was not a result of something I did.
--I, myself, chose to buy stocks but I, myself, did not make their value increase.
--My wife chose to be a realtor, but she did not decide to improve the demand of the housing market.
I can see your point about the taxes I guess, but you’re not selling me that the stock market and housing market is because of Trump. Stocks go up and down constantly - will you fault Trump when the stock market goes down in the future? Do you blame George W Bush for the housing collapse? I don’t.
Touché, maybe I need to take the political blinders off regarding the stock/housing argument.Trying to do the whole "take a look from the other side" thing, but as you know its not that easy.
will you fault Trump when the stock market goes down in the future? Do you blame George W Bush for the housing collapse? I don't
There it is.
The economy has been growing since 2010. If one wants to say that the growth hasn't been large enough or fast enough, there is that, sure.
On the housing market, existing inventory is hot but a correction is overdue. Demand remains steady to high, but construction loans and broker activity remain flat. A whole lotta houses got built before 2008, and with the rapidly aging boomers, there's going to be a huge over-inventory in housing sooner or later.
People have been trying to correlate politics and the stock market for a very long time, with very different conclusions.
BTW, anyone else noticing the stealth inflation at the gas pump and grocery store?
Article today from Terry Savage. Her previous article was about personal debt rising to over $1 trillion in the US. At my financial adviser's last meeting they said inflation was up 2.8% (including gas and food). They said they thought the fed was raising rates even though the numbers don't support it, because if we go into a recession they won't have any tools available to them if the rates are already low.
The economy has always reminded me of one of those squishy toys that children so enjoy. If you squeeze the middle, the ends get distorted. If you squeeze one end, the other end bulges and changes shape. Same thing with the economy: If you change trade policy or interest rates or tax rates, the results are felt far from the part you squeezed.
That’s exactly what’s happening now. And as a result you’re going to hear more about subjects that haven’t been in the economic headlines for at least a decade, like inflation, rising prices and the value of the dollar. It’s time to get prepared.
Inflation on its way
The simplest definition of inflation is rising prices — although economists will tell you it’s all about money creation. We are definitely starting to see rising prices as the result of tariffs. When we put taxes on imports — whether they come from China or any other part of the world — those taxes are passed on to consumers in the form of higher prices.
Manufacturers that import everything from computer parts to tires to washing machines will try to hold prices steady so consumers aren’t turned off. But in the end they will raise prices just to stay in business. Whether it’s raw materials (think fresh vegetables from Mexico) or telephone handsets, prices will move higher.
And as the higher prices deter consumer buying, the slowdown will be felt by retailers and manufacturers alike. Instead of saving jobs, the tariffs will cost jobs. But it will take a while for the effects to be felt.
In the end, inflation is a monetary issue. Because if you fear that prices will be higher in the future, it means that your dollar will buy less. So workers will demand higher wages to pay for the increased cost of living. And higher wages mean more money chasing after things to buy, pushing prices even higher.
In the end, no one is better off with inflation. Just ask Venezuela, which is suffering with a 46,000 percent — yes forty-six thousand! — inflation rate this month. There are no basic supplies of food and water available at any price for worthless Venezuelan currency. And Venezuela has the largest oil reserves in the world, so the country should be wealthy. But it can’t pay workers to keep its refineries operating.
Higher interest rates follow
Future inflation expectations inevitably drive interest rates higher. It’s not just the Fed announcing small rate hikes that drives rates. It’s the marketplace where lenders of dollars, fearing that inflation will result in less buying power for the dollar, will demand higher interest rates to compensate.
Politicians can blame the Fed for their small increases. But once the global marketplace decides that the United States dollar is losing value because of inflation, there will be no way to stop rates from rising. After all, we have so much debt — more than $20 trillion — that we must keep borrowing, and paying the price in higher interest rates.
On a personal basis, debt will become a huge burden as monthly payments rise. Think of your credit card bills and your adjustable rate mortgage or home equity loan.
Downside of a strong dollar
But there is another negative aspect of higher interest rates. If U.S. rates move higher than those in other countries, our currency will become more attractive and rise in value against other countries. This “strong” dollar makes our exports more expensive because foreign buyers will have to scrape together more Euros, for example, to buy one dollar’s worth of our manufactured goods. As a result, sales of U.S. products are likely to drop, resulting in layoffs at our factories. Obviously, that was not the intended result when tariffs were imposed.
All these impacts, and we haven’t even mentioned retaliatory tariffs. They pose the potential to cost jobs everywhere from the farm belt to manufacturing to technology to retailing. The tariffs could be the biggest “squish” of all!
That’s the thing with economics. Our economy and the global economy are indeed inter-connected, like a giant squishy toy — with bulges and odd results taking place far from the original squeeze. And that’s The Savage Truth.
There is a lot there that I agree with, and a little I don't. Prices will be going up, that's for sure. The tariffs on imported goods, as well as raw materials for goods made in the US, will be passed on to customers. I read that prices for Maytag washing machines have have already increased 20% due to increased aluminum prices from the tariffs, and this is from a company that initially applauded the tariffs.
With inflation will come increased interest rates, and along with that it will cost even more to service the national debt (because everyone wants their tax money to go to paying interest instead of actually doing something useful with your money).
The part I disagree with is the strong dollar issue. Yes, a weak dollar makes US goods cheaper overseas. However, traditionally the US economy has does better during periods when the dollar was strong. Regardless, I think countries are going to start having second thoughts about lending the US unlimited money to service our debt. Didn't Trump once even say that maybe the US should default on our debt? Would you lend money to someone who even in passing suggested defaulting on a loan?
"Stealth" ? Maybe kind of stealth for gas, but food prices are an outright kick in the teeth, climbing every week.
Touché, maybe I need to take the political blinders off regarding the stock/housing argument.Trying to do the whole "take a look from the other side" thing, but as you know its not that easy.
I applaud you! I hope Trump does help you somehow, but you deserve the credit, not anyone else, IMO.
Pathetic
I will exchange ideas and thought with anyone at anytime, until it becomes argumentative. One should be able to share a thought and hear an opposing view. If you disagree, you should be able to depart, knowing you've made the attempt. Seeing and hearing frustration because you will not continue to engage when there is no possibility in your mind of finding common ground is the red flag that tells me the attempt at conversation has come to an end. It's OK to just, walk away.
LOL, ok! You sound like one conflicted dude.
“Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.”
- William F. Buckley
I did not bring up the color of one's skin, you did and I repeat, that is pathetic
I did not bring up the color of one's skin, you did and I repeat, that is pathetic
I never said you brought it up, take it easy. I stated I believe race is at the root of hatred for Obama, just sharing a thought. You call it pathetic, after posting that you “exchange ideas until it becomes argumentative, and one should be able to share a thought.” You crack me up is all I’m saying.
I did not bring up the color of one's skin, you did and I repeat, that is pathetic
I never said you brought it up, take it easy. I stated I believe race is at the root of hatred for Obama, just sharing a thought. You call it pathetic, after posting that you “exchange ideas until it becomes argumentative, and one should be able to share a thought.” You crack me up is all I’m saying.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion
"I stated I believe race is at the root of hatred for Obama"
Could his politics have anything to do with it? Great orator and that is it, nothing, zip, nada to do with the color of his skin.
"Exchanging" ideas with you has proven to be an exercise in futility. This will be proven soon as your need to get the last word in will overcome any sensible rebuttal to the "thought" you've so graciously shared here.
Enjoy the day, I am "walking away".
THIS IS ANOTHER LIE by trump and muleturd. Trump still has the smell of putins balls on his breath. 😛
Are you on public assistance or a monthly fixed income? How else can you be such a blockhead?
I am on social security and that fat orange asshole wants to let his eunuch minions like Ryan cut that plus Medicare to reduce the debt they incurred with a tax bill that largely benefits the wealthy and/or those jerking their chains on the stock market....
Could his politics have anything to do with it? Great orator and that is it, nothing, zip, nada to do with the color of his skin.
"Exchanging" ideas with you has proven to be an exercise in futility. This will be proven soon as your need to get the last word in will overcome any sensible rebuttal to the "thought" you've so graciously shared here.
Enjoy the day, I am "walking away".
Wow! Where do I start....Your first paragraph made me think you wanted to share ideas. But then the last paragraph says you are walking away. Am I supposed to engage or not? You seem to be flustered a little.
As for your first paragraph, I do think conservatives genuinely oppose his politics, no doubt. I remember the Clinton bashing - it was a Disney movie compared to what I saw and heard about Obama. The criticism I heard about Clinton was rational. But if can’t say the same about the criticism I’ve heard about Obama, so I have always asked myself why that is. I don’t think it’s hatred for black people, but rather an insecurity that black people were “taking over” and they got scared, panicked, and developed crazy paranoia thoughts as a result. I never said that opposition to Obama means a hatred for blacks, nor do I think it makes someone a racist. When I say that I believe race is at the root of the issue, I’m referring to the insecurities I mentioned before....not that they are racists. Just sharing ideas,...take it easy.
And as for your second paragraph, whatever makes you feel better.
