WHERE THINGS STAND NOW TODAY.
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/427004-trump-agrees-to-end-shutdown
SO Trump has agreed to re-open the govt. until February 15th and provide the back pay for the 800,000 furloughed federal workers. BUT, if Congress does not provide a bill that provides funding for the wall by February 15th, the government will shut down once again and he said he will "address" the national security issue. (which most people understand to mean POSSIBLY declare that National State of Emergency due to conditions on the southern border).
Further remarks: This is not JUST a battle of wills regarding THE WALL. There are other issues each side is working on, that is why there has been so much back and forth. It is not just a duel between President Trump and Fancy Nancy as she has been called.
RE-CAP OF BILLS PRESENTED AND REJECTED
This was Trumps original offer from 1-19-19
Here's what the President says his proposal included:
Three years of legislative relief for 700,000 DACA recipients, giving them access to work permits, social security numbers and protection from deportation
A three-year extension of Temporary Protected Status for immigrants whose protections are facing expiration
$800 million in humanitarian assistance
$805 million for drug detection technology
2,750 border agents and law enforcement professionals
75 new immigration judge teams to reduce the backlog of court cases
These are issues both sides have been working on.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/19/politics/house-democrats-border-security-funding-trump/index.html
All seven outstanding appropriations bills, as agreed upon in the House-Senate conference process -- this includes the Department of Homeland Security measure that has been at the center of the entire shutdown.
Asylum law changes -- one that would create in-country asylum processing for Central America minors, and another that would give the administration the power to immediately deport any minor who crossed the border without going through the in-country process.
Extension of the Violence Against Women Act through the end of September.
Extension of the EB-5 visa program, E-Verify program that allows employers to confirm employee work eligibility, the Conrad 30 program for international medical school graduates, Special Immigrant Religious Workers program, and H2B returning worker authority for DHS, all through the end of the fiscal year.
The Senate rejected Trump’s proposal on a 50-47 vote, with Senators Mike Lee of Utah and Tom Cotton of Arkansas, both Republicans, crossing party lines to vote against the measure and Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia, a Democrat, joining most Republicans in voting yes.
The bill also called for funding for 750 more Border Patrol agents, 375 additional Customs and Border Protection officers and 2,000 more Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and support staffers.
In its second vote of the day, the Senate rejected a Democratic bill to reopen the government through February 8.
The measure failed on a 52-44 vote. A half-dozen Republicans, including Lamar Alexander of Tennessee, Susan Collins of Maine, Cory Gardner of Colorado, Johnny Isakson of Georgia, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Mitt Romney of Utah, defied Trump, voting with Democrats in favour of the measure.
The proposal included no additional money for border security or any other government function. Instead, it would have opened the government under prior funding levels, to allow for further negotiations while also providing US$14 billion in unrelated disaster-relief funding.
Also on Thursday, a group of 30 House Democrats continued to press their case that Pelosi should guarantee Trump a vote on border security funding by the end of February if he agrees to allow the government to reopen.
[Edited on 1/25/2019 by gina]
Comparison of bills each side has creasted.
This is how law enforcement has been effected by the shutdown.
In a letter to Donald Trump today, Nathan Catura, who heads the Federal Law Enforcement Officers Association, expressed just how dire the shutdown has been for workers who have now gone without pay for more than a month.
Describing the “perilous position” federal workers are facing, he writes that many are depending on GoFundMe pages and soup kitchens to get by. Citing that 27,000 federal agents and officers across 65 federal agencies are represented by his association and that all have had to work with no pay as their jobs are essential to national security, he called the shutdown reprehensible and asked the President to end it.
Many of our members conduct complex investigations including tracking terrorists, identifying foreign actors, and protecting elected officials, including you and your family. As the shutdown continues they are being put in both a fiscally and personally compromising position that is antithetical to the way our nation should be treating those that protect us.
Twenty-first century law enforcement requires research, analysis and technology. These critical investigative support elements are not working during the shutdown, this compares to half of a team taking a field for a game. The targets of our investigations now have an advantage of being better informed and better resourced than our members. This is an extremely dangerous situation that threatens the lives of our members and all Americans.
REMARKS: The shutdown has been lifted but only until February 15th. If Congress cannot solve it's divisiveness the conditions that have existed because of the shutdown will come back and continue. This is a very serious point in our history and people need to be aware of that.
Illegal immigration has been a problem talked around for a long time with no change in the amount of people pouring in. President Trump is the only President not afraid to take this challenge on. It will be a big shame if border security fails to pass. I agree whole-heartedly that the radical left cannot take control of our border situation. I would rather err on the side of more security than less.
Well goob,
There is border security and then there are walls. There are differences, you do know? Soon Humpty Dumpty is gong to fall really hard from his wall of lies & deceptions, but you'll be there to catch him? He is someone who can do no wrong with 30% of an electorate. That 30% is empowerment?
Illegal immigration has been a problem talked around for a long time with no change in the amount of people pouring in. President Trump is the only President not afraid to take this challenge on. It will be a big shame if border security fails to pass. I agree whole-heartedly that the radical left cannot take control of our border situation. I would rather err on the side of more security than less.
But there has been a HUGE DECREASE in the number of people crossing over the last 10 years. Illegal immigration is already WAY DOWN. There are 1 million fewer illegals in the US than there were 10 years ago. Those are the facts, so why is this suddenly a crisis?
Illegal immigration has been a problem talked around for a long time with no change in the amount of people pouring in. President Trump is the only President not afraid to take this challenge on. It will be a big shame if border security fails to pass. I agree whole-heartedly that the radical left cannot take control of our border situation. I would rather err on the side of more security than less.
But there has been a HUGE DECREASE in the number of people crossing over the last 10 years. Illegal immigration is already WAY DOWN. There are 1 million fewer illegals in the US than there were 10 years ago. Those are the facts, so why is this suddenly a crisis?
I am also putting the article in this thread because I don't think most of us were/are aware of the size of the problem.
https://www.wola.org/analysis/trump-asylum-seekers-wait-in-mexico-border-crisis/
"Because the U.S. Justice Department employs only 395 immigration judges, the current backlog in U.S. immigration courts has reached over 800,000 cases. As a result, those who enter into the U.S. asylum system are now usually being given initial hearing dates in late 2021 at the earliest, and often for 2022 or 2023. "
And there is reportedly a NEW caravan of 1,800 more people heading towards America.
[Edited on 1/25/2019 by BoytonBrother]
Glad to see Trump do the right thing. Too bad it had to come to this. I'm not on board with the "trump caved" campaign. Not helping anything at all.
The Greatest Dealmaker In The History Of Ever did not cave.
He got owned.
REMARKS: The shutdown has been lifted but only until February 15th. If Congress cannot solve it's divisiveness the conditions that have existed because of the shutdown will come back and continue. This is a very serious point in our history and people need to be aware of that.
Congress isn't divided. What Trump agreed to today is exactly what he had planned to sign in December (with unanimous approval by the Republican Senate) before Coulter & Co questioned his manhood about The Wall. Trump, for the sake of his ego and to satisfy Coulter & Co, put millions of American government employees (directly, ancillary, & contract) through hell for nothing. He got nothing.
"Border Security" has always been a priority for both parties. Ms. Coulter is holding Trump's feet to the fire for a 90' concrete slab wall campaign promise that even he has shown flexibility on - considering a slatted fence or other type of barrier.
After this fiasco with law enforcement, national security, and air traffic nightmares, Trump isn't going to jump into another shutdown nor is he going to declare an emergency. It would take well past 2020 to wend its way through the courts as to the validity of the emergency & the purchase of private land. He's all smoke & mirrors.
Today proved he doesn't know a thing about the Art of the Deal in politics. He achieved nothing in 35 days.
He got nothing?
The stalemate/battle is not over. He is doing a humanitarian act making sure those 800,000 workers who have been without paychecks get paid. And their pay can come as soon as tomorrow. He wants to work on plans with the Democrats to get funding for the wall. He has been reasonable, he will even accept partial funding so that construction can begin.
1-24-18 from his Twitter page:
"Nancy just said she “just doesn’t understand why?” Very simply, without a Wall it all doesn’t work. Our Country has a chance to greatly reduce Crime, Human Trafficking, Gangs and Drugs. Should have been done for decades. We will not Cave"
Can it be any clearer than that? Without some type of physical barrier, reducing the illegals coming over, including gang members, the drugs and the exploitative people who prey on desperate young people seeking a better life, who sell them into human trafficking, all of that happens because there is no wall. Can people dig tunnels under the wall? Of course they can. A wall will stop more of these problems than no wall. That is the rationale for the wall.
IF Congress does not hand hiim some bills that can pass in the House and the Senate, I believe he will declare a National Emergency. He wrote a draft for that last week. Thankfully he did not have to use it. The battle is not over yet.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html
"If the declaration is made, the US Army Corps of Engineers would be deployed to construct the wall, some of which could be built on private property and would therefore require the administration to seize the land, which is permitted if it's for public use."
The right to seize the land comes from those Executive Orders I mentioned previously that gives the government the right to seize any and everything in a national emergency.
From Trump himself:
Look on the bright side, at least it will be after the Super Bowl if he has to do this. BUT it will get immediately ugly in DC.
House Armed Services Chairman said they would immediately initiate a lawsuit.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/armed-services-chairman-vows-fight-trump-declares-national-emergency
AND YES NANCY HAS SPOKEN.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/not-clear-wall-pelosi-signals-trump-still-wont-get-wants
“Have I not been clear on the wall?” Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Friday when one asked if Democrats would continue to object to wall funding in the upcoming negotiations. “I’ve been very clear.” Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer was more direct: “Democrats are against the wall.”
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
REMARKS: The shutdown has been lifted but only until February 15th. If Congress cannot solve it's divisiveness the conditions that have existed because of the shutdown will come back and continue. This is a very serious point in our history and people need to be aware of that.
Congress isn't divided. What Trump agreed to today is exactly what he had planned to sign in December (with unanimous approval by the Republican Senate) before Coulter & Co questioned his manhood about The Wall. Trump, for the sake of his ego and to satisfy Coulter & Co, put millions of American government employees (directly, ancillary, & contract) through hell for nothing. He got nothing.
"Border Security" has always been a priority for both parties. Ms. Coulter is holding Trump's feet to the fire for a 90' concrete slab wall campaign promise that even he has shown flexibility on - considering a slatted fence or other type of barrier.
After this fiasco with law enforcement, national security, and air traffic nightmares, Trump isn't going to jump into another shutdown nor is he going to declare an emergency. It would take well past 2020 to wend its way through the courts as to the validity of the emergency & the purchase of private land. He's all smoke & mirrors.
Today proved he doesn't know a thing about the Art of the Deal in politics. He achieved nothing in 35 days.
Well said....Not only did he achieve nothing, but the cost of his temper tantrum hasn't even begun to come home to roost...If anyone who was on the fence about Trump prior to this fiasco doesn't wake up and see what this guy is, well, I don't know what will....And that's scary.
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by Chain]
He got nothing?
The stalemate/battle is not over. He is doing a humanitarian act making sure those 800,000 workers who have been without paychecks get paid. And their pay can come as soon as tomorrow. He wants to work on plans with the Democrats to get funding for the wall. He has been reasonable, he will even accept partial funding so that construction can begin.
1-24-18 from his Twitter page:
"Nancy just said she “just doesn’t understand why?” Very simply, without a Wall it all doesn’t work. Our Country has a chance to greatly reduce Crime, Human Trafficking, Gangs and Drugs. Should have been done for decades. We will not Cave"
Can it be any clearer than that? Without some type of physical barrier, reducing the illegals coming over, including gang members, the drugs and the exploitative people who prey on desperate young people seeking a better life, who sell them into human trafficking, all of that happens because there is no wall. Can people dig tunnels under the wall? Of course they can. A wall will stop more of these problems than no wall. That is the rationale for the wall.
IF Congress does not hand hiim some bills that can pass in the House and the Senate, I believe he will declare a National Emergency. He wrote a draft for that last week. Thankfully he did not have to use it. The battle is not over yet.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html
"If the declaration is made, the US Army Corps of Engineers would be deployed to construct the wall, some of which could be built on private property and would therefore require the administration to seize the land, which is permitted if it's for public use."
The right to seize the land comes from those Executive Orders I mentioned previously that gives the government the right to seize any and everything in a national emergency.
From Trump himself:
Look on the bright side, at least it will be after the Super Bowl if he has to do this. BUT it will get immediately ugly in DC.
House Armed Services Chairman said they would immediately initiate a lawsuit.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/armed-services-chairman-vows-fight-trump-declares-national-emergencyAND YES NANCY HAS SPOKEN.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/not-clear-wall-pelosi-signals-trump-still-wont-get-wants
“Have I not been clear on the wall?” Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Friday when one asked if Democrats would continue to object to wall funding in the upcoming negotiations. “I’ve been very clear.” Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer was more direct: “Democrats are against the wall.”[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
I can't figure out if maybe your a Saudi bot or a Russian one? But then again there's something about the way you strategically post these absurd, unfounded, and frankly a bit out there posts that makes me think that neither is the case and that maybe you're just in love with Donald Trump..
But I'm probably wrong.. 
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by Chain]
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by Chain]
He got nothing?
The stalemate/battle is not over. He is doing a humanitarian act making sure those 800,000 workers who have been without paychecks get paid. And their pay can come as soon as tomorrow. He wants to work on plans with the Democrats to get funding for the wall. He has been reasonable, he will even accept partial funding so that construction can begin.
Answer - Yes, he got something. He got schooled by Nancy Pelosi. Think about that. This is not some women he paid off for sex. She is someone that knows her way around DC moreso than the great deal maker. She had a mandate from the midterm elections which Trump used to amp up his anti immigration & wall mantra. He lost. Unfortunately much of the country went down with his childish game. His ego has to be crushed by seeing Pelosi come out on top of his manufactured crisis.
Gina says "He is doing a humanitarian act". So, that we have it right - he created a very inhumane situation for thousands and thousands of workers with additional external problems created for DHS, the FBI, and our air system. He got beat up badly & was blamed for his horrible judgement. It had ripple effects on the economy. But Gina thinks by him trying to save face he did a humanitarian thing as if he has empathy for people other than his family.
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by MartinD28]
President Trump, he is not going to give in on needing the wall, nor should he. The wall is part of border security.
Trump: video
https://www.yahoo.com/news/1-trump-announces-deal-reopen-192825406.html
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
He got nothing?
The stalemate/battle is not over. He is doing a humanitarian act making sure those 800,000 workers who have been without paychecks get paid. And their pay can come as soon as tomorrow. He wants to work on plans with the Democrats to get funding for the wall. He has been reasonable, he will even accept partial funding so that construction can begin.
Answer - Yes, he got something. He got schooled by Nancy Pelosi. Think about that. This is not some women he paid off for sex. She is someone that knows her way around DC moreso than the great deal maker. She had a mandate from the midterm elections which Trump used to amp up his anti immigration & wall mantra. He lost. Unfortunately much of the country went down with his childish game. His ego has to be crushed by seeing Pelosi come out on top of his manufactured crisis.
Gina says "He is doing a humanitarian act". So, that we have it right - he created a very inhumane situation for thousands and thousands of workers with additional external problems created for DHS, the FBI, and our air system. He got beat up badly & was blamed for his horrible judgement. It had ripple effects on the economy. But Gina thinks by him trying to save face he did a humanitarian thing as if he has empathy for people other than his family.
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by MartinD28]
Exactly....And Donald Trump and his enablers in the Republican party, in particular, Mitch McConnell, need to answer for the damage they have caused....To the livelihoods of the individuals and families he had no consideration for, to national security, to the economy, etc....They need to pay and I hope like hell the populace never forgets this and shows up at the polls in 2 years.
He got nothing?
The stalemate/battle is not over. He is doing a humanitarian act making sure those 800,000 workers who have been without paychecks get paid. And their pay can come as soon as tomorrow. He wants to work on plans with the Democrats to get funding for the wall. He has been reasonable, he will even accept partial funding so that construction can begin.
1-24-18 from his Twitter page:
"Nancy just said she “just doesn’t understand why?” Very simply, without a Wall it all doesn’t work. Our Country has a chance to greatly reduce Crime, Human Trafficking, Gangs and Drugs. Should have been done for decades. We will not Cave"
Can it be any clearer than that? Without some type of physical barrier, reducing the illegals coming over, including gang members, the drugs and the exploitative people who prey on desperate young people seeking a better life, who sell them into human trafficking, all of that happens because there is no wall. Can people dig tunnels under the wall? Of course they can. A wall will stop more of these problems than no wall. That is the rationale for the wall.
IF Congress does not hand hiim some bills that can pass in the House and the Senate, I believe he will declare a National Emergency. He wrote a draft for that last week. Thankfully he did not have to use it. The battle is not over yet.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/24/politics/trump-border-wall-emergency-draft/index.html
"If the declaration is made, the US Army Corps of Engineers would be deployed to construct the wall, some of which could be built on private property and would therefore require the administration to seize the land, which is permitted if it's for public use."
The right to seize the land comes from those Executive Orders I mentioned previously that gives the government the right to seize any and everything in a national emergency.
From Trump himself:
Look on the bright side, at least it will be after the Super Bowl if he has to do this. BUT it will get immediately ugly in DC.
House Armed Services Chairman said they would immediately initiate a lawsuit.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/armed-services-chairman-vows-fight-trump-declares-national-emergencyAND YES NANCY HAS SPOKEN.
https://www.rollcall.com/news/congress/not-clear-wall-pelosi-signals-trump-still-wont-get-wants
“Have I not been clear on the wall?” Speaker Nancy Pelosi told reporters Friday when one asked if Democrats would continue to object to wall funding in the upcoming negotiations. “I’ve been very clear.” Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer was more direct: “Democrats are against the wall.”[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by gina]
I can't figure out if maybe your a Saudi bot or a Russian one? But then again there's something about the way you strategically post these absurd, unfounded, and frankly a bit out there posts that makes me think that neither is the case and that maybe you're just in love with Donald Trump..
But I'm probably wrong..
I agree with his position that there is a serious problem on our southern border and many things are needed to solve this problem, including a physical barrier, more judges to handle the backlog of 800,000 asylum cases currently pending and a change to our immigration laws limiting the number of asylum seekers from NON WAR ZONE countries who can come here. We cannot afford to have an endless stream of people coming here who we cannot support.
The Greatest Dealmaker In The History Of Ever did not cave.
He got owned.
True. I take it you are having a good Friday.
Today proved he doesn't know a thing about the Art of the Deal in politics. He achieved nothing in 35 days.
Trump's negotiating style, if there is such a thing, is completely ineffective in the political realm. He is dealing with individuals, people, groups, nations, political parties that have a message that needs to be crafted in any negotiation or "deal". Trump incessantly beating people over the head with why he is 'winning' is counterproductive to the process. How are you going to insult somebody up and down publicly and then expect them to give you what you want when they have everything to lose - and everyone sees it. Maybe it works in private, when there aren't, oh, thousands of interested and engaged people opposing him. Trump has never understood how politics is supposed to or actually works. This last 5 weeks just was further confirmation of such.
Exactly....And Donald Trump and his enablers in the Republican party, in particular, Mitch McConnell, need to answer for the damage they have caused....To the livelihoods of the individuals and families he had no consideration for, to national security, to the economy, etc....They need to pay and I hope like hell the populace never forgets this and shows up at the polls in 2 years.
Nobody is going to forget this. They will pay dearly for it. As if there wasn't enough already stacked against them.
Illegal immigration has been a problem talked around for a long time with no change in the amount of people pouring in. President Trump is the only President not afraid to take this challenge on. It will be a big shame if border security fails to pass. I agree whole-heartedly that the radical left cannot take control of our border situation. I would rather err on the side of more security than less.
But there has been a HUGE DECREASE in the number of people crossing over the last 10 years. Illegal immigration is already WAY DOWN. There are 1 million fewer illegals in the US than there were 10 years ago. Those are the facts, so why is this suddenly a crisis?
Same question, same answer from this thread:
http://www.allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=147622&page=2
2112 said: Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
I said :
You are right, that illegal alien apprehensions are down from their historic peak. However, it is also true that the trend line is increasing now. Apprehensions bottomed to under 20,000 per month in the spring of 2017; since then the numbers have been steadily climbing as high as 3x.In this chart you can see the recent history trend lines and also where FY2019 has started:
Ironically, CBP website is not updated due to the shutdown, but DHS has the December apprehensions/ inadmissibles for FY2019 were 60,782 marking the third straight month exceeding 60,000. Inadmissibles are those turned away at ports of entry, which average about 10,000 a month. This makes the captures between ports roughly 50,000 each month so far this FY, and that makes the third straight month of apprehensions over 50k.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/01/09/dhs-releases-southwest-border-enforcement-statistics
So illegal crossing apprehensions are climbing, and you will also see in the DHS link that family unit apprehensions for the first three months of FY19 are up 280% over the same time frame of FY2018.
Regarding the total numbers of illegals living in the US, you are correct in that according to Pew, the number has dropped from 1 million to maybe even as high has 2 million lower than 2007.
Although, there have been others suggesting the illegal alien population in the US considerably higher, such as an MIT-Yale study resulting in 16 to 29 million with 22.1 being their average - double the commonly referenced 11 million from polling data. Moral of the story, it is difficult to estimate the total number and there could be many more than is typically assumed.
I would submit that this has always been a crisis. And the reality is, it always will be a crisis.
[Edited on 1/26/2019 by nebish]
For those who would take shots a the Democrats for the shutdown or assign = blame, the below article has some great quotes from President Coulter & VP Lou Dobbs about Trump. This is entertainment at its best with right wingers going after a guy who posed as a Republican to get the nomination of that party.
"Controversial commentator Ann Coulter called Trump “the biggest wimp ever to serve as president” and Fox Business host Lou Dobbs said Trump had been “whipped” by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)."
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-apos-sean-hannity-130954545.html
"Controversial commentator Ann Coulter called Trump “the biggest wimp ever to serve as president” and Fox Business host Lou Dobbs said Trump had been “whipped” by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)."
Just posted Coulter's quote on the Mueller thread:"Good news for George Herbert Walker Bush: As of today, he is no longer the biggest wimp ever to serve as President of the United States." Did she miss that #41 is past caring about such things & wouldn't be considering it good news?
For those who would take shots a the Democrats for the shutdown or assign = blame, the below article has some great quotes from President Coulter & VP Lou Dobbs about Trump. This is entertainment at its best with right wingers going after a guy who posed as a Republican to get the nomination of that party.
"Controversial commentator Ann Coulter called Trump “the biggest wimp ever to serve as president” and Fox Business host Lou Dobbs said Trump had been “whipped” by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)."
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-apos-sean-hannity-130954545.html/blockquote >
I actually heard some Trump supporters on my local talk radio show claim that he got a win on this (similar to the Hannity line "he holds all the cards").
These supporters of the President ignore the fact that just because he is President he doesn't get to dictate exactly what he wants. This is government, this is politics, this should be working with the otherside to get a little and give a little. But tell me, who actually does this today? Is that what America needs and wants, drastic one party swings controlling all meaningful legislation from session to session? Really, this is my problem with both sides, we've come to a point that both the Democrats and Republicans are resigned to the fact of just holding party line and pushing through legislation with their own majorities, other side be damned. Big and important legislation should never be purely partisan. It doesn't have to be that way, but they make it that way and the vocal extremes on the right and the left push for it to be that way and everyone else is like WTF?
I’m not so sure this will hurt him among his base. They will also say that Trump is showing maturity and bipartisanship, a sign of a good leader that the left has been yearning for (if they were smart). Roger Stone’s defiance energized the anti-U.S. pro-Russia traitor crowd, giving the Trump train some much needed steam. The question remains - will Mueller be able to prevent the future pardons, and what strategy will he take moving forward. If Trump Jr. and Kushner are next, expect Trump to resign immediately.
If Trump Jr. and Kushner are next, expect Trump to resign immediately.
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Trump's never seemed enamored of his oldest kids other than Ivanka when she started modeling. He never saw them & was quite happy to walk away before/during/after the divorce from Ivana. [He seems to forget Tiffany exists.] I get the impression that he thinks he has an obligation to give the sons jobs & money so he can keep them on a short leash & they don't screw up too badly.
If any of them actually know something, it's Jared. Jared's father has served time & is shadier than Cohen's FIL. I can see DJT discrediting Jared as saying anything to protect his father.
Otherwise, I don't see DJT resigning for any reason other than he's bored w/playing president. It's not what he thought it would be.
If Trump Jr. and Kushner are next, expect Trump to resign immediately.
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Trump's never seemed enamored of his oldest kids other than Ivanka when she started modeling. He never saw them & was quite happy to walk away before/during/after the divorce from Ivana. [He seems to forget Tiffany exists.] I get the impression that he thinks he has an obligation to give the sons jobs & money so he can keep them on a short leash & they don't screw up too badly.
If any of them actually know something, it's Jared. Jared's father has served time & is shadier than Cohen's FIL. I can see DJT discrediting Jared as saying anything to protect his father.
Otherwise, I don't see DJT resigning for any reason other than he's bored w/playing president. It's not what he thought it would be.
He won't resign. He can't pardon his family and friends if he isn't in office.
My guess is that Mueller is very aware that Trump will pardon his sons immediately if the are indicted, so if they are indicted it will be at the very last minute when his report is set to drop.
If Trump Jr. and Kushner are next, expect Trump to resign immediately.
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Trump's never seemed enamored of his oldest kids other than Ivanka when she started modeling. He never saw them & was quite happy to walk away before/during/after the divorce from Ivana. [He seems to forget Tiffany exists.] I get the impression that he thinks he has an obligation to give the sons jobs & money so he can keep them on a short leash & they don't screw up too badly.
If any of them actually know something, it's Jared. Jared's father has served time & is shadier than Cohen's FIL. I can see DJT discrediting Jared as saying anything to protect his father.
Otherwise, I don't see DJT resigning for any reason other than he's bored w/playing president. It's not what he thought it would be.
He won't resign. He can't pardon his family and friends if he isn't in office.
My guess is that Mueller is very aware that Trump will pardon his sons immediately if the are indicted, so if they are indicted it will be at the very last minute when his report is set to drop.
Take a look at this article & video from way back in July of 2017 where DJT Jr let go on a whopper of a lie and denials. A whole lot has transpired since then. He has zero credibility.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/11/15953754/donald-trump-jr-cnn-russia-hacking-disgusting-
phony-dnc-election
Will be interesting to also see what happens of his alleged lying to Congress.
For those who would take shots a the Democrats for the shutdown or assign = blame, the below article has some great quotes from President Coulter & VP Lou Dobbs about Trump. This is entertainment at its best with right wingers going after a guy who posed as a Republican to get the nomination of that party.
"Controversial commentator Ann Coulter called Trump “the biggest wimp ever to serve as president” and Fox Business host Lou Dobbs said Trump had been “whipped” by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.)."
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/fox-news-apos-sean-hannity-130954545.html/blockquote >
I actually heard some Trump supporters on my local talk radio show claim that he got a win on this (similar to the Hannity line "he holds all the cards").
These supporters of the President ignore the fact that just because he is President he doesn't get to dictate exactly what he wants. This is government, this is politics, this should be working with the otherside to get a little and give a little. But tell me, who actually does this today? Is that what America needs and wants, drastic one party swings controlling all meaningful legislation from session to session? Really, this is my problem with both sides, we've come to a point that both the Democrats and Republicans are resigned to the fact of just holding party line and pushing through legislation with their own majorities, other side be damned. Big and important legislation should never be purely partisan. It doesn't have to be that way, but they make it that way and the vocal extremes on the right and the left push for it to be that way and everyone else is like WTF?
Best not to pay any attention to Trump supporters. Trump could say "2+2=5" and many of them would justify it one way or the other. Same is said for those who support "tax the rich 70 percent to pay for global warming" or "free college tuition for everyone".
If Trump would just shut-up and do his job (like many effective leaders), things wouldn't be so divisive and confrontational in our country. Unfortunately, divisiveness and confrontation is all he knows and preaches. IMO, after all the bluster, he's a very lonely and sad man.
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Because I think it will signify Mueller has something on Trump. There’s no way in hell Trump Jr and Kushner set up a meeting with the Russians in Trump Tower about using the stolen emails, without Trump knowing in advance and giving the ok. By indicting those two, Trump is the last final piece.....unless he resigns to avoid the trouble - a deal offered by Mueller - just go away or be indicted when you leave office. Trump can pardon his friends and family all he wants, but what good does that do him if Mueller decides to use what he has and indict him?
[Edited on 1/28/2019 by BoytonBrother]
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Because I think it will signify Mueller has something on Trump. There’s no way in hell Trump Jr and Kushner set up a meeting with the Russians in Trump Tower about using the stolen emails, without Trump knowing in advance and giving the ok. By indicting those two, Trump is the last final piece.....unless he resigns to avoid the trouble - a deal offered by Mueller - just go away or be indicted when you leave office. Trump can pardon his friends and family all he wants, but what good does that do him if Mueller decides to use what he has and indict him?
[Edited on 1/28/2019 by BoytonBrother]
Thanks. You're right. Jr & Jared couldn't order lunch for a meeting much less set up the Russia conspiracy meeting on their own.
Trump, of course, could pardon them before they're indicted if he thought Mueller was getting close. Not clear that Trump can pardon himself, but Pence as his successor can.
We don't know that Trump (& others) haven't already been indicted under seal. I think Stone's indictment worked that way. What Trump CAN'T do is pardon crimes that are state not federal crimes. There are already 3 states looking/have looked at the campaign, business, and foundation.
IMO Trump regrets winning & can't find a way out.
I'm genuinely interested as to why you think that (& you're not alone). Do you think he's afraid of what they'll say or trying to save them from prison?
Because I think it will signify Mueller has something on Trump. There’s no way in hell Trump Jr and Kushner set up a meeting with the Russians in Trump Tower about using the stolen emails, without Trump knowing in advance and giving the ok. By indicting those two, Trump is the last final piece.....unless he resigns to avoid the trouble - a deal offered by Mueller - just go away or be indicted when you leave office. Trump can pardon his friends and family all he wants, but what good does that do him if Mueller decides to use what he has and indict him?
[Edited on 1/28/2019 by BoytonBrother]Thanks. You're right. Jr & Jared couldn't order lunch for a meeting much less set up the Russia conspiracy meeting on their own.
Trump, of course, could pardon them before they're indicted if he thought Mueller was getting close. Not clear that Trump can pardon himself, but Pence as his successor can.
We don't know that Trump (& others) haven't already been indicted under seal. I think Stone's indictment worked that way. What Trump CAN'T do is pardon crimes that are state not federal crimes. There are already 3 states looking/have looked at the campaign, business, and foundation.
IMO Trump regrets winning & can't find a way out.
I think his biggest regret is that his own actions over the past 2.5 years have led to numerous investigations into his decades long illegal behavior. From Fred Trump's illegal tax evasion schemes to shelter his wealth for his children, to Donnie's decades long money laundering schemes for the mob, Russian oligarchs, foreign monarchies, etc. All which stand to come to light and may even land him and some of his family in prison.
But perhaps Little Donnie's biggest regret will prove to be the bursting of the bubble that suggests he's some sort of genius business man and financial guru. For many of us we knew he was nothing of the sort and only a good con man running a years long ponzi scheme.
Now, many more people around the world know he's nothing like what he portrays himself to be. For an egomaniac and narcissist like Trump, when the false perception implodes, it can prove devastating. He's potentially in for a hard fall and he knows it.
