even though nyc has reputation for being.....not friendly? i found it extremely friendly. and diverse, lol. i don't understand how someone from nyc can be so anti tourist or immigrant. i thought it was a great place to visit. will trumps immigration stances hurt that?

just don't shout "there's a black one" when you see a black squirrel

I really don't want to pretend to be a Trump supporter. I think you honestly know the answer to the question you ask...or are you just trying to get something going?

The issue, as I see it, is anti-illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants put downward pressure on wages while stressing social programs and in some cases provide unfair competition to American workers for certain jobs. While they do pay taxes in the form of sales tax, if they are paid under the table in cash, then obviously they do not pay into the payroll state and federal tax system. If they have an fake social security number, then it is possible that those illegal immigrants would pay into the normal payroll taxes if they are part of the normal payroll process from their employer. I don't know which % of illegal immigrant workers is greater, the under-the-table cash type or the fake ssn type. But in either case, the problems they cause for our society, in my opinion greatly outweigh any benefit some argue they offer in an economic sense.

I think that people take legitimate concerns over illegal immigration and blow them up into xenophobe, or racism. Are there people who are against illegal immigration who are racists and xenophobes? Yes. Are there real concerns and problems relating from illegal immigration that have nothing to do with skin color and ethnicity? Sure.

Where Trump stands? Depends which side is answering the question.

I personally do not believe Donald Trump is anti-immigration. I believe he is anti-illegal immigration and anti-refugee.

Why ask such a question in your NYC thread when there are already so many Trump threads dominating the forum?

Back to more interesting subjects, I too love NYC. Great people and sites there. I first visited in 2003 to attend ABB at Beacon Theater and I happily went back often through 2014. Great memories in the city and surrounding areas, so glad that I went. Without the ABB I doubt I ever would've gone. And the pizza, wow, the pizza. THE BEST.

[Edited on 10/11/2016 by nebish]

I really don't want to pretend to be a Trump supporter. I think you honestly know the answer to the question you ask...or are you just trying to get something going?

The issue, as I see it, is anti-illegal immigrant. Illegal immigrants put downward pressure on wages while stressing social programs and in some cases provide unfair competition to American workers for certain jobs. While they do pay taxes in the form of sales tax, if they are paid under the table in cash, then obviously they do not pay into the payroll state and federal tax system. If they have an fake social security number, then it is possible that those illegal immigrants would pay into the normal payroll taxes if they are part of the normal payroll process from their employer. I don't know which % of illegal immigrant workers is greater, the under-the-table cash type or the fake ssn type. But in either case, the problems they cause for our society, in my opinion greatly outweigh any benefit some argue they offer in an economic sense.

I think that people take legitimate concerns over illegal immigration and blow them up into xenophobe, or racism. Are there people who are against illegal immigration who are racists and xenophobes? Yes. Are there real concerns and problems relating from illegal immigration that have nothing to do with skin color and ethnicity? Sure.

Where Trump stands? Depends which side is answering the question.

I personally do not believe Donald Trump is anti-immigration. I believe he is anti-illegal immigration and anti-refugee.

They always conveniently leave out the "illegal" part.

Yeah, banning Muslims because every one of them is an illegal.

I doubt if Trump personally cares about immigration one way or the other, but he's smart enough to know that there are a lot of people out there who fear "foreigners" and he's taken positions to get the votes of those people.

I want to be careful here because I am not supporting Trump and will not be voting for him.

Yeah, banning Muslims because every one of them is an illegal.

I believe that the anti-Muslim talk was in direct relation to the middle east refugees. Mainstream media, like USA Today, that there are people who espouse radical beliefs and ISIS sympathizers, or perhaps even worse. Is it a small percentage of people within the large number of refugees overall? Probably. But we must not be taking people like that into our country. My opinion.

And I have wondered this on refugee assimilation, I wonder how many younger refugees might, over time, build up some resentment towards the US if opportunities aren't available to them, or they face growing prejudice. I'm not condoning prejudice or keeping minority or refugee populations down of course, I just kind of realistically think about the living conditions and lifestyle some of them may be subjected to and they may turn to radicalism. We don't need or want that. Sure we should work to change prejudice and opportunities for all, but reality is what it is. That stuff doesn't change overnight, or even over the course of several months / years. In the meantime we shouldn't potentially be admitting people who could be already believing or leaning the radical way and some things they encounter once they get here feeds into it.

Trump has done a terrible job explaining his position as he should. And maybe he can't or feels differently than I think I am describing, again I am not a supporter, but will engage people like you or my friends on issues that everyone is talking about. If we have a problem with radical islamic terrorism, then we should be very very careful on knowing who the people we accept into our country are and what beliefs they subscribe to.

illegals take jobs that american citizens don't want/won't do. wages have taken a dive because of anti union/anti worker sentiment from republicans, funded by citizens united.

All true. But why don't Americans do those jobs? They need paid more. All different groups like to use price, cost, taxes to get a desired result. Some believe fossil fuel energy needs to be more expensive to support the growing renewal and green energy industry. Some believe taxes and costs of tobacco or sugary drinks needs to be higher to make more people reconsider spending more money on such items. So then maybe the wages for whatever jobs we are talking about, agriculture, landscaping, housekeeping if American's won't do those jobs then perhaps we need to talk about the wages for those jobs being higher to attract the US citizen to apply. Does that make the bills customers pay higher for those goods and services? Yes. It all is a domino effect. I personally do not want illegal immigrants in the country and I do not want more of them coming to seek employment that is available here. Let's wipe out the source of the jobs and heavily penalize (prison) employers who hire illegal immigrants. We need a strong eVerify for employers to use in that case.

But please do not ignore the fact that illegal immigrants do take some jobs that Americans do want to do. Construction jobs are perhaps the most common in my mind. It is a honest living to build homes, be a carpenter, a stone mason, painter, etc. Illegal immigrant labor has had a very negative impact in this field and I don't think it has too much to do with jobs Americans don't want to do.

Another thing, I hear local businessmen and company owners call my local talk radio show and complain about how many applicants can't pass a drug test or who have poor work ethic. It's an over generalization, America is fat and lazy. Illegal immigrant labor fills a void there. But we have bigger problems that need examined and addressed rather than just kicking the can down the road and using illegal immigrant labor.

Additionally part of the wages diving related to union jobs, I could use the cause of imports and trade policy to show cause and effect on union labor wage decline as much as US anit-labor law. Both sides sell our workers out. Bernie knows it, unforunately the corporate Democrat candidate won out rather than the people's Democrat candidate.

I doubt if Trump personally cares about immigration one way or the other, but he's smart enough to know that there are a lot of people out there who fear "foreigners" and he's taken positions to get the votes of those people.

Agreed. At this point I don't think Trump knows what Trump cares about anymore. Some people fear foreigners, I don't know any personally, but I'm sure they exist and politicians certainly exploit that. I think the bigger issue is are these foreigners coming to our country in an orderly lawful process and do these foreigners offer something to benefit this nation? Is there some skill or knowledge they have that can positively effect society and our economy? People that are attracted to American beliefs and liberties. Those are the people I want here and I don't care what country they come from or what skin color they have. If we are talking about foreigners that will have a negative impact on society or economically, or even undermine American values and liberties then those are the people I absolutely want to keep out.