One of the very knowledgeable and experienced legal minds i listen to whenever he speaks is an Assistant District Attorney from the Albany, NY area.
This morning on the local Albany Public Radio station he predicted Trump will eventually be indicted and tried for his theft of classified material from the White House. He wouldn’t predict Trump will serve jail time but stated it’s obviously a strong possibility.
What he further pointed out was Trump’s strategy of trying to spin the political angle by constantly seeking out press and public opportunities to spin his story.
This strategy is actually digging himself further into a legal hole. He’s incriminating himself legally by running his mouth and saying things that his attorney’s can’t defend in a legal setting. Which goes directly to cyclone’s point above.
@cyclone88 Can Trump pardon himself by saying that he thought about doing so while he was still POTUS? 😉
Yes, Trump self-inflicts legal problems & it's anyone's guess as to whether he'll be indicted. Given that the DOJ actually knows what's in the boxes, it may have already made a decision whether to prosecute on this & is biding its time. As far as we know, the only thing that can be proven is Trump had possession of documents he shouldn't. Is that worth advancing the Victim Trump/DOJ WitchHunt narrative? when there may be a bigger case?
IMO DOJ was working on a larger Trump case (e.g., Jan 6, election meddling, or even going back to withholding Congressionally-approved funds to Ukraine unless he could get dirt on Biden's son) when it had to deal w/getting a routine search warrant to recover the documents at Mar-a-Lago for the National Archives. The media & FPOTUS turned it into a big deal even though he'd already reluctantly turned over 2 other sets of documents w/o raising a public hoopla. So far, all he's done is wasted the 11th Circuit's time & is paying for a pointless Special Master.
Trump's gotten away w/a lot - fake university, fake charity. He was in settlement talks with the NY AG that broke down so she filed a civil suit (preponderance of evidence); criminal wasn't prosecuted because there wasn't enough beyond-a-reasonable-doubt evidence. Info was turned over to the IRS - crickets.
He may be thinking that because he thinks he's still POTUS. Biden, however, is probably thinking "not a chance."
Apologies to you - I didn't think the execution of a valid search warrant to retrieve the government's documents the National Archives had been trying to get for 20 months would be a big deal. Yeah, POTUS would cry victim & he's litigious, but there's not much to litigate on a routine warrant.
Now, it's a circus in 4 separate courts - all because the media started calling it a "raid" & FPOTUS decided 2 weeks after the DOJ already had its documents that he wanted a Special Master just like his former flunky Cohen did (although Cohen was smart enough to demand it the day after the execution.)
Federal District Court Judge Cannon did whatever her godfather wanted & appointed a special master & a $500/hr assistant & said no one could look at the documents until after the SM finished.
Her superiors in the 11th Circuit slammed her nonsensical logic & ordered the DOJ to use the "classified" documents given that classified means classified until someone proves in court that it's not. Cannon amended her order.
The SM in NY dictated a reasonable timetable & reiterated that classified means classified & the government is entitled to keep its own documents. However, no document processing vendor could be found until yesterday who would contract w/Trump because of his reputation of non-payment.
FPOTUS also appealed to the 11th Circuit & now SCOTUS trying to delay any findings at least through January. Clarence Thomas happens to be the justice who oversees the 11th Circuit, but he probably isn't going to make a solo decision.
As this drags on, all the info FPOTUS wants to hide is showing up. The DOJ HAD looked at all the boxes after retrieving them but had a separate team removing anything that might be privileged & handed over a sealed inventory to the District Court in August (before FPOTUS started litigating). Someone - the court data entry person? a scanner? - entered the entire inventory, including what had been separated for DOJ not to review because it was personal or privileged, on the public court filings system yesterday. So now the world knows there were at least contracts w/the PGA, advice from attorneys re the 2020 election, & a sticky note from Rudy plus various clippings, hats, & tee shirts all slated for return to FPOTUS before FPOTUS got the courts involved.
None of this is going FPOTUS's way except to delay if the 11th Circuit or SCOTUS don't shut the whole SM thing down, especially since FPOTUS returned some boxes in January 2021 and more in Spring 2022 & didn't claim anything was his or privileged or whatever else he's dreamed up. The weird thing is that in all the recent court filings, the FPOTUS lawyers refer to him as POTUS - not Plaintiff or Appellant or even Mr. - clearly designed to hope the courts live in an alternate universe & think he's still POTUS.
And, in the SCOTUS brief, FPOTUS lawyers admit he was in "possession of the records." They admitted he was guilty of possessing documents that don't belong to him; they are government documents. They admit he criminally possessed documents!!!! He knows it. The lawyers know it. And now, SCOTUS knows it.
4 courts all on different aspects of how the government wasn't entitled to retrieve its documents after 20 months of being lied to, delayed, or ignored a subpoena. It's that last one that brought out the search warrant. What a waste of taxpayer money.
In less than 24 hours from when the DOJ brief was due & submitted, Thomas submitted the case to the full court & they rejected FPOTUS's appeal. No surprise, but he couldn't wait to be rid of it. Now, it's down to 3 courts.
I only hope the present members of the Supreme Court deny the inevitable appeal from Trump against his indictment and prosecution for his attempted overthrow of the United States Gov’t on January 6th.
I'm not sure he'll ever be indicted by DOJ on that. So far, it's only been actual participants. The Congressional Committee plans to subpoena him to preserve giving him an opportunity to speak for their record, but I'm sure he'll ignore or contest it. It'll take years for DOJ to bring a Jan 6 case against him, prosecute it, have a jury vote guilty, & go through lower appeals. By then, SCOTUS may look different (Alito & Thomas are in their 70s) and they might reject an appeal.
What seems to be turning into a more likely win for DOJ is this documents case - obstruction & any evidence that he sold/gave/bartered info w/anyone against US interests. What once was just a document retrieval case blown into a raid by the media seems to be more serious w/more info that suggests something was in this MAL batch he wanted to keep when he didn't object to returning other batches twice. Trump himself is bragging about his KJU letters, there's grand jury testimony & video that boxes were moved from the storage room after the subpoena was served despite a specific direction not to, and other grand jury testimony that the National Archives told DOJ almost immediately after getting the 1st boxes that DJT had illegally kept the most classified material.
I read the filings on this case & have to say the way the Ivy League DOJ politely points out the incompetency of the lawyers willing to work for Trump is striking. They keep pointing out that if Trump thought the "political raid by his rivals" was illegal, the issue of the 4th Amendment has never been raised. Even this SCOTUS was going to reject this mess in one sentence.
I just read that Steve Bannon got a 4 month "prison" sentence. He'll probably serve at a Four Seasons type country club somewhere ... and not among the daddy-rapers and mama-stabbers in a real hole like he ought to. They probably don't make shivs long enough to penetrate all that fat anyway. 😉
Yeah, think it's a badge of honor for him to serve time for contempt of Congress - not a big deal in the scheme of things. It's not like he's been convicted of a crime by DOJ w/a real sentence. FPOTUS was just served his Jan 6 hearing subpoena. He'll probably delay until the committee winds up.
Meanwhile, the Mar-a-Lago documents case is making its way through the courts & seems headed to the 11th circuit overturning the whole Special Master process by the end of next month. Based on what's been made public - due to consequences of FPOTUS's demands - there's proof of obstruction - testimony & video of DJT staff moving boxes out of storage at Trump's direction AFTER he got a subpoena. The nature of the documents - people requesting pardons, intelligence on China, Iran's nuke capacity - are revealed as being of the most highly classified intelligence. I wouldn't want to be his lawyer - the SM has a very short fuse & trying to follow FPOTUS's logic that people petitioned him as POTUS for clemency (presidential document) but the documents are his personal property even though he has no power to grant clemency as a private citizen - is circular logic & frivolous. A lawyer could be disbarred for continuously bringing frivolous motions.
I've been wondering IF - and it's a big if - DJT were ever indicted for something if he'd make bail. Were he just DJT and not FPOTUS, he wouldn't - flight risk w/lots of friends w/$ & his private jet is out of mothballs, tuned up, & ready to flee. I'm sure Putin would put him up in a fine hotel.
Let's face if folks, Trump will never be convicted of anything. They may have had good intentions but IMHO this is all just a political circus by the Democrats to try to use it as leverage in the upcoming elections and the Presidential election in 2024.
If the Democrats lose in the House in November this will be a big waste of time and taxpayers money as the Republicans will dismantle everything that has occurred to date. it will be as if it never happened. They will then begin their political circuses and witch hunts to go after the Democrats and Biden.
If the Dems lose the Senate as well as the House then Biden will be basically impotent as the Republicans will never work with him again or pass anything he proposes so they can use that in the 2024 Presidential elections.
Our political system is FUBAR.
I've repeatedly said, there's very little chance of him being indicted much less tried, convicted, & not overturned on appeal for Jan. 6. I consider the Congressional Committee investigating the events to be doing their duty, turning over any useful facts to the DOJ, and sending a subpoena to FPOTUS in order to say they gave him an opportunity. There's no teeth in anything they do except - as you say - used in political campaigns. Even if the DOJ had evidence, a jury wouldn't necessarily find a criminal link between FPOTUS & the insurrection.
I do think there's a chance that he could be indicted on the documents from MAL. It's pretty straightforward - possessing/mishandling government documents is a crime & he possessed them, mishandled them, & obstructed the government to get its property back.
I think democracy as we knew it is teetering but the UK is really FUBAR.
Never said you didn't mate. I was just expressing my opinion nothing will touch Trump as long as the GOP are scared to death to cross him.
Without GOP support the Dems don't have enough muscle to do anything but make him uncomfortable at best. He will walk on all the Feds investigations even the classified doc circus IMHO. This is almost a certainty I think if the GOP takes back Congress.in a couple of weeks.
I don't put anything past Trump and if we do go into a deep recession before 2024 he has a good chance of being reelected IMHO.
And that GOP fear of Trump will forever remain a mystery to me. I can't think of a single scenario beyond murdering their families, that keeps GOP Senators, Representatives, & high visibility hangers on so devoted to him. Even Godfathers lose their power at some point.
And that GOP fear of Trump will forever remain a mystery to me. I can't think of a single scenario beyond murdering their families, that keeps GOP Senators, Representatives, & high visibility hangers on so devoted to him. Even Godfathers lose their power at some point.
I think the devotion to Trump goes beyond just fear. The GOP as a whole rakes in lots of money from the Trump cult members by simply enabling his behavior and never questioning Dear Leader....
And we all know how important fundraising is to not only the national GOP leadership, but state and local GOP leaders as well.
It’s money after all that makes the whole disgusting system go around.
You're right, of course. I underestimate donors in part because I think they're rational - e.g., pro-lifers will now turn their backs on former Sinner in Chief because they got what they wanted w/Roe - when they're not.
There is an upswing in violence against office holders - All US House Reps got $10k/member to upgrade home security in July, there've been thwarted attacks on Pramila Jayapal & Justice Kavanagh, an assault on NY gubernatorial candidate Zeldin, and the attempted kidnapping of the MI governor. Now, attempted homicide (the highest of the defendant's charges) of Pelosi's husband. This heightened violent rhetoric needs to stop - people actually believe they'll be heroes for murdering a politician or his/her family.
I've gotten us off track of the MAL search, but the 11th Circuit isn't doing anything until next month.
Looks like the jukebox at the old bar is spinnin' the same kinda records. Bar reference credit goes to MarkRamsey. Ramsey, if you are out there somewhere, I still hate you. I hope you and yours are doing really well. Let's have a drink sometime.😆
So many issues these days. Most important is inflation. Starting in 2019 and full force into 2020 and continuing, the Federal Reserve has printed just over 80% of the dollars that have ever been printed.
Why did they do that? Odd thing is that the Consumer Price Index went up right along with it. I know, I know. Spurious correlations and all that.
As to everything else, Trump is still the same grifter he's always been. With all the drug abuse it's a miracle he's still alive.
Next up in the next few weeks is a massive wave of racism. It gets worse before it gets better.
Have a fantastic weekend, everyone!
My final thoughts on the topic after reading the FPOTUS brief due 11/11. Oral argument is set for later in the month w/a decision whenever the 11th Circuit makes one - possibly before the SM's tenure ends in December which could make the whole SM review useless. I'll be out of the US by then & away from the next 2 years of political noise.
My wish is that the 11th Circuit throws the brief back at the FPOTUS team (or refuses to consider it at all) due to its content being political victimhood rather than legal arguments and deliberate lack of basic legal writing skills required in federal appellate courts such as using correct terminology (execution of a search warrant v. "raid") and the continued identification of Trump as President Trump rather than Mr. Trump, FPOTUS Trump, or the customary term "the Plaintiff." Like it or not, DJT isn't president; President Biden exists. Of course, that won't happen, but there's absolutely nothing legal never mind a sound legal argument in the brief for the 11th Circuit to consider.
AG Garland is said to be considering whether to prosecute FPOTUS over document retention. Just based on information that's been made public through court filings, he could get an indictment - he knowingly took documents after leaving office, kept them through 20 months of requests and ultimately a subpoena and search warrant, and is contesting the MAL documents (he apparently doesn't care about the other 2 batches he returned) through the justice system. Government employees regularly plead or are convicted & sentenced for taking documents home w/them (a clerical assistant got 3 months & a $5K fine & a mid-level analyst got 8 years for willful retention). This week, a husband/wife time got 19 & 22 years in prison for document retention w/intention to sell. Why is Civilian Trump any different? Who cares if he may be Candidate Trump by the time of an indictment? Of all the DOJ cases, this seems the most winnable. IMO, FPOTUS will never be held accountable for Jan 6.
Trump may truly run out of lawyers. Just this week, a federal judge fined and sanctioned one of his legal teams for intentional misuse of the legal system & declared their activities to be politics masquerading as legal claims. He reiterated that the lawyers weren't incompetent. They're abusing the system. Shame on them.
they busted his VP w/classified documents just last week -
Trump haters & every rag in the supermarket are having a field day - forget Mar A Lago - now it’s this
“Why Were So Many Prisoners Executed Under The Trump Administration?”
subheadline, “Trump’s Killing Spree: The Inside Story Of His Race To Execute Every Prisoner He Could”
I never knew about any of this - did he do all his killings & executions unnoticed - who were the prisoners he was trying to exterminate?
“Adolf Hitler was kind & gentle compared to this bastard” (my quote marks) - the work will never stop, the trash to be slung continuously from every mudhole, toward this end
there was an image of Trump 2-3 weeks ago posted by New York Magazine (not New Yorker) that depicted him as something, not someone, something, between Hitler, Atilla The Hun, a pissed-off wife beater & a mafia godfather - it was hilarious, look it up!
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this Sunday-morning s**t the media squeezes out - whether back-side diarrhea or front-side PUKE….
it’s disgusting - it’s putrid, smells bad & makes the notion of “a free press” rotten
BUT, Donald pays the bills & people love reading garbage - they used to get informed standing in the checkout line - now it’s ONline, more readily available & full of s**t than ever
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“Joe & Kamala have accomplished & achieved what Trump & Pence deceived people with
“Yes, President Biden & Vice President Harris Have Made America Great Again”
Nikki Haley?
the former SC governor is officially running for president
depending on what Pres. Biden does, it could be the first election w/female candidates if he steps aside & endorses VP Harris
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info from previous post about Trump’s ‘killing spree’ came from Rolling Stone - it was online for about 15-20 min or so b4 being taken down
vanity fair, that paragon of integrity & fairness, had this headline recently; “Trump says winning golf tournament he appears to have cheated in makes him fit to be president”
Newsweek is currently carrying the mantle, regurgitating the same ol years-old bile about “Trump’s worsening legal troubles”
Biden, Trump & Bernie Sanders is quite a geriatric group of candidates (Bernie hasn’t declared yet) - Joe a senior, Donald a mafia don & Sanders a socialist
Who in their right mind would want to run for president - Haley will come to realize this imo
@stephen Nikki might win the swimsuit competition. God, I hope we don't see Trump in a Speedo!
That’s for sure!! A photoshopper could go all out for that
but what the heck, the feds continue to search the Biden beach home for classified info (according to a currently breaking story)
- they also searched the trump & pence homes - why aren’t they going thru the Harris residence or other top officials
wonder if it’ll ever come to light the content of the classified documents they’ve after - sounds important
Was only kidding about Trump’s ties to the mafia
but mayb there’s no kidding about it after all
at least not the way a ‘bonus podcast’ of the Daily Beast (a label on my phone) tells it
it is podcasting that “Trump Uses Mob Boss Tactics To Keep People From Flipping”
so what if he’s linked to the underworld - I for one feel Trump/Pence & the GOP deserve another chance to make America great again
- warren zevon once said lawyers guns & money - it holds true - also the internet
they’re back to this
a 37-count indictment against Donald Trump “accusing him of mishandling sensitive government secrets” - slanted Wash Post rtcl
I thought this was the same as the Mar y Lago classified-documents scandal - almost certain that it is
‘They finally got em & Trump should be trundled off to jail’ - it doesn’t say that but is the pretty straightforward implication/hope of the writer
up next, file appeal in appellate court
then Stormy (thought she was next)
then insurrection,
formal announcement of candidacy end of this year
….leading to the Feb primaries, campaign season & the GOP convention next July in Milwaukee
so far it’s him, Nikki Haley, Pete Buttigieg, Robert Kennedy Jr (a Dem) in the running
unsure of othiz but, as in sports, it’s early yet🤙
@derekiseric The IRS isn't getting the 80,000 new employees to look for tax cheats Biden wanted. I doubt more that half of them would be investigating tax payers plus the Biden Treasury Secretary stated only higher wage earners and companies would be investigated.
In the compromise Biden reached with GOP speaker Kevin McCarthy, canceling the increase in IRS employees was one thing the Republicans won.
Democrat Manchin of West Virginia won the completion of the Mountain Valley Pipeline.
Far left Democrats were angered by Biden agreeing to those and the far right was angered by what McCarthy caved on. It was how it works isn't it? Both sides didn't get it entirely their way.
Presidential historian on TV this morning said the military documents Trump was waving at his friends was to show that General Miley agreed with Trump then despite the General's claims now.
And that in Donald Trump's mind he is more important than military secrets, classified documents, the countries security, the law and election results etc. In his mind it's all about Donald Trump and making him look good and in his mind, he himself is far more important than anything including this country and the constitution!!!
That is the same Donald Trump I've been seeing on TV interviews since 1972!! The man is consistent!!!
When he was 35 years old he said he told his then wife " Every morning when you wake up, before your feet hit the floor, you better take time to think about what you can do and say today to make Donald Trump happy".
And that in Donald Trump's mind he is more important than military secrets, classified documents, the countries security, the law and election results etc. In his mind it's all about Donald Trump and making him look good and in his mind, he himself is far more important than anything including this country and the constitution!!!
That is the same Donald Trump I've been seeing on TV interviews since 1972!! The man is consistent!!!
When he was 35 years old he said he told his then wife " Every morning when you wake up, before your feet hit the floor, you better take time to think about what you can do and say today to make Donald Trump happy".
rock on - your knowledge of Donald Trump’s comings & goings is as extensive as the ABB, resulting in posts informed by the wisdom of oft-mentioned advanced years
you’re preaching to the choir here - heck one person posted here on the boards that “Donald Trump has made racism & bigotry OK in the US” - also “Donald Trump has made it OK to be a racist bigot in the United States”
so you can see why there is “pushback” when reason & common sense go out the window & Trump is blamed for EVERYTHING, totally by rote
I’ve never once heard him say those things about himself in the quote - but realize that’s not the point - who can take the most artful **** on his name Is the point
when he talked to Putin, he was accused of “criminally colluding against the US”
when Biden talked to Putin, a 180 the other way - “our president was advancing American interests”
don’t have a pony in any o’ this baloney
just don’t understand why Don is the day-in/day-out target for hate & ignorance - never have -
dont care either way, but Do usually root for the underdog or people unfairly shit on✌️
felt the same way when Nixon & young Bush were also reviled & attacked on a daily basis
They got em now
he’s been indicted for trying to steal the 2020 election - had forgotten about that one
that in turn instigated/sparked the insurrection, one account said
remarks, mayb there is merit to 1 or part of 1 of the tidal wave of accusations/indictments against him - that’s what his enemies/accusers hope
but still, much to their chagrin he’s been able to evade incarceration thus far - that will continue, esp w/the campaign coming up -
Chose this thread b/c that trial of the classified documents scandal is being tried in court currently
trials/tribulations/troubles/travails/continuously-worsening legal situation blah blah….
…all that aside
the election is a year away, Nov 5
unless something changes, looks like it’ll be a rematch
it was mentioned, oh no, not Hou-Phila again in the WS, Bo-ring :yawnfest: in the bball thread
that’s how I feel about this (possible) political rematch -
there’s no way to truly judge/accurately gauge Donald Trump’s popularity or non-popularity imo - at least not w/polls etc
same applies to Pres. Biden
do appreciate the lack of spewing in recent months - would be awesome to see it stay that way - most American patriots proud of our ancient red white & blue heritage, feel the same - we’re united on that - ‘greetings, no slinging this time & let’s rap-friendly……
‘there’s now-no need for vitriol, we saw it all, in 2020 fall, now same 2 back, just hit repa, I mean replay & pass it my way’ obladi oblada….
I know, rose-colored glasses😵💫 - they help me tell the wheat from the chaff - realize people get hotheaded on the topic of politics/elections etc
again, good that it’s been boring/somnolent, non-hysterical/alarmist - may it stay that way for one more year - the incumbent & his predecesor are both fine Americans -
they’re also elderly, will have their senior moments & should be cut some slack to allow for that -
it’s why a rematch would have a big impact on the senior population, more-so than in 2020 - so many were driven away by the media circus then
🇺🇸🎼good morning my fellow Americans/ABB fans🎶🍄
@stephen Bottom line: when it gets right down to it the two main parties will support their top (read: most popular) candidate. Fellow politicians will put aside their differences and vote for their PARTY. This works on both sides. Voters succumb to the lesser of two evils model. Party politics leads to ovine mentality. Saaaaad.
There are a few like myself, though who just ain't gonna vote for something that they do not want. In recent days I've read accounts from former financial supporters from BOTH sides who say that if the next election is a Biden-Trump rematch that they intend on NOT voting at all. I'll probably cast for a third party candidate as a means of protest. Mama use to say, "if you don't vote - don't complain". As much as I miss her words of wisdom I'd like to point out that complaining never achieved anything. I have a stack of "form letter" replies from various office holders that I've written to over the years. The one thing that all of these replies have in common - the evidence that the office holder never actually read my letter of complaint.
There it is - court denied Trump’s appeal, paving the way for E Jean Carroll’s defamation lawsuit Jan 16
….conviction & sentencing right at primary time & the end of Trump
remarks, what an irony - E Jean’s pockets deepened considerably from the first time around earlier this year, when it was reported she won a $5 mil judgement
….now she’ll be using some of Donald’s $5 mil to ramp up her team of legal eagles, hiring the best lawyers $ can buy ahead of Jan 16 figuring conviction will double that $
remark, she should use some of her $ to market her sunglasses - “shout it out loud & stand out proud in a crowd - you too can look like EJC ….”
don’t know where Stormy fits in in all this - boy that would be a catfight to see, holyoly - w/Mary Trump refereeing
& their lawyers as judges at ringside in this steel-cage match
it’s called a draw, all agree it was Trump’s fault, & lawsuits are filed before the ladies leave the cage
….as the Fabulous Moolah rolls in her grave
