Exactly. It’s about one thing and one thing only. It’s not a complex issue. It can’t be about guns because it’s about mental health. It can’t be both, morons, duh.
It does seem to be more complicated for some than others. 😉
Can you believe those idiots who think it’s a complex issue involving many factors. Such morons, lol!
Nothing will change. Not yesterday, today, tomorrow or ever.
I knew that if you posted you would say exactly that.
So then, why bother talking/posting about it? Why waste your time, why waste my time, why everyone else waste time? Why do we come to the internet to read and comment about issues?
Interesting that of all the responses, my simple one upsets you the most. Why?
Mental illness is a lazy answer.
This guy turned out to have a history of domestic abuse & was literally gunning for his in-laws. Las Vegas - financial problems. Charleston - angry young man. Several revenge murders at former workplaces. Columbine was 2 high school misfits.
People behind bars for murder aren't all mentally ill. There's anger and hate and vengeance - none of which are classified in the DSM V.
Every country in the world has people with mental illness. Only this country has so many mass killings. It is not a mental health issue.
Besides that, the GOP Congress passed a law that allows people with mental illness to buy guns. Trump signed it. The latest health care reform failure would have greatly reduced the coverage of mental illness. For any conservative to cry "it isn't guns, it is mental illness" is just a fraud. It's guns and the easy access to them by people both mentally stable and mentally ill.
Wrong!!!!!!!!
They rolled back an Obama bill that added several hundred thousand Social Security recipients to a data base as being "mentally ill" without due process. None of the people added were adjudged to be mentally ill by a court of law. The were losing their rights to a half baked proposal. If you keep repeating that lie, then you're the one mentally ill.
It is a mental health issue for sure. So let’s leave a wide open path for them to purchase automatic weapons!
Why would you propose that? Are you crazy?
I'm with Pat Robertson on this one, and I can't stand him. This was another guy whacked on SSRI. Common element in many of these off the wall "senseless" events. Mandatory confiscation of all weapons, down to slingshots squirt guns and zippos upon prescrip of psych meds would take a big bite out of this problem.
[Edited on 11/7/2017 by BrerRabbit]
If the Air Force had reported his conviction, prison sentence, escape from a mental institution, and his mental state, that would have been standard procedure.
The law has been on the books for years about domestic abuse and the prohibition of gun ownership.
Mental illness is a lazy answer.
This guy turned out to have a history of domestic abuse & was literally gunning for his in-laws. Las Vegas - financial problems. Charleston - angry young man. Several revenge murders at former workplaces. Columbine was 2 high school misfits.
People behind bars for murder aren't all mentally ill. There's anger and hate and vengeance - none of which are classified in the DSM V.
Every country in the world has people with mental illness. Only this country has so many mass killings. It is not a mental health issue.
Besides that, the GOP Congress passed a law that allows people with mental illness to buy guns. Trump signed it. The latest health care reform failure would have greatly reduced the coverage of mental illness. For any conservative to cry "it isn't guns, it is mental illness" is just a fraud. It's guns and the easy access to them by people both mentally stable and mentally ill.
Wrong!!!!!!!!
They rolled back an Obama bill that added several hundred thousand Social Security recipients to a data base as being "mentally ill" without due process. None of the people added were adjudged to be mentally ill by a court of law. The were losing their rights to a half baked proposal. If you keep repeating that lie, then you're the one mentally ill.
People who can't take care of their own affairs have no business carrying firearms. People receiving social security for mental health issues have no business owning firearms. People on the terrorist watchlist should not be able to purchase firearms. These are common sense. I have no idea why gun rights activists can't get behind these common sense restrictions. Obviously you haven't had anyone close to you murdered or I can't imagine you supporting this insanity.
Nothing will change. Not yesterday, today, tomorrow or ever.
I knew that if you posted you would say exactly that.
So then, why bother talking/posting about it? Why waste your time, why waste my time, why everyone else waste time? Why do we come to the internet to read and comment about issues?
Interesting that of all the responses, my simple one upsets you the most. Why?
It doesn't upset me at all. It was just so predictable. Maybe you are short on time or just at the point that you think it is pointless to go into a forum and talk about stuff. It's fine. But I recall so many topics where that is your post. The "nothing will change".
And it just makes me wonder, if that is your position why are we even wasting time trying to talk about it? If nothing will change why don't we just stop even bringing stuff up?
Nothing will change. Not yesterday, today, tomorrow or ever.
I knew that if you posted you would say exactly that.
So then, why bother talking/posting about it? Why waste your time, why waste my time, why everyone else waste time? Why do we come to the internet to read and comment about issues?
Interesting that of all the responses, my simple one upsets you the most. Why?
It doesn't upset me at all. It was just so predictable. Maybe you are short on time or just at the point that you think it is pointless to go into a forum and talk about stuff. It's fine. But I recall so many topics where that is your post. The "nothing will change".
And it just makes me wonder, if that is your position why are we even wasting time trying to talk about it? If nothing will change why don't we just stop even bringing stuff up?
On this topic, guns and gun control, nothing will ever change. Ever.
The last time the FBI even tried to count, there's more guns in our country than people. Impossible for the government to take them all away.
Death by shooting, whether it's one person or two or twenty or thirty, has become an accepted risk in our society. People are obviously more than willing to live with it, and living with that risk in order to retain the right to own a gun is one that again, plenty of people are willing to live with.
In order to "do something" about mental illness, we as a country would have to come to terms with the fact that mental health issues are an issue to begin with. That's not happening anytime soon, because it's simply too easy to go get a pill for whatever your issue is.
I'm not blowing off the topic by saying nothing will change on guns, because it hasn't yet and never will. I don't like guns and don't own one, but if you want to have a howitzer in your driveway I don't care. I don't have the "typical" liberal opinion on this. I truly believe that the notion of any type of gun restriction, legislation or any other type of regulatory effort is nothing but a waste of time. I live in a deeply red state with basically no gun restrictions. Guess I'll just live with it. My opinion on it does not matter.
I think what I'm hearing from people around me is more and more ordinary, not necessarily engaged, people are starting to question the process of buying and owning and the types of guns. Plenty have been calling for it for some time, but now there is more of it from other people. We all know there are so many weapons available that illegal access is going to remain an option for people who can't obtain a gun legally. But having a more tightly regulated process is growing among people that otherwise don't have opinions on legal or political topics. Maybe that trickles up to the candidates. There are some gun supporting Democrats and some less gun friendly Republicans.
I think what I'm hearing from people around me is more and more ordinary, not necessarily engaged, people are starting to question the process of buying and owning and the types of guns. Plenty have been calling for it for some time, but now there is more of it from other people. We all know there are so many weapons available that illegal access is going to remain an option for people who can't obtain a gun legally. But having a more tightly regulated process is growing among people that otherwise don't have opinions on legal or political topics. Maybe that trickles up to the candidates. There are some gun supporting Democrats and some less gun friendly Republicans.
Haven't the reactions, though, become pretty tightly connected with mass shooting events, and those reactions all have the same short shelf life? This shooting will not be a story a week or so from now. Everyone will move on.
It is so sad that these event do become the new normal. I don't know if we get hardened to it or what it is.
It is so sad that these event do become the new normal. I don't know if we get hardened to it or what it is.
That's exactly what is happening.
Why would you propose that? Are you crazy?
All I know is that there are a bunch of mentally ill, irresponsible millenials out there with social disorders who can’t use a broom let alone a firearm, but they are Americans first. And if one of these types wants an AR-15, then by golly, they deserve one just as much as a you or I. Just because the cops and our military conduct extensive training for use of these weapons, doesn’t mean Tyler who just graduated from high school can’t have one too. 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment. Sounds like you are suggesting we should strip away the god given rights of Tyler.
Why would you propose that? Are you crazy?
All I know is that there are a bunch of mentally ill, irresponsible millenials out there with social disorders who can’t use a broom let alone a firearm, but they are Americans first. And if one of these types wants an AR-15, then by golly, they deserve one just as much as a you or I. Just because the cops and our military conduct extensive training for use of these weapons, doesn’t mean Tyler who just graduated from high school can’t have one too. 2nd amendment is the 2nd amendment. Sounds like you are suggesting we should strip away the god given rights of Tyler.
Who in the heck is Tyler? Doesn't matter. Much More Important I really never thought you and I would agree on ANYTHING. But... perhaps we could. No Guns for millennials? I could get get on board with that!
Not to embarrass you or anything but you spelled millennials wrong. Don't feel bad I had to look it up. I know you and others are fond of pointing these things out to some of us under achieving right wingers.
Ok, mule how about an opinion and solution idea from you? You demanded that from me, I posted some ideas you thought were dumb, but I offered an opinion and solution without bashing anyone.
Your turn.
Enforcing the laws already on the books would dramatically reduce gun violence.
Just imaging how many black people would be alive today in Chicago if the Democrats who run that city and are responsible for public safety actually enforced the law.
Look deeply into it. You will see that the straw purchase of guns is rarely prosecuted there.
People who can't take care of their own affairs have no business carrying firearms. People receiving social security for mental health issues have no business owning firearms. People on the terrorist watchlist should not be able to purchase firearms. These are common sense. I have no idea why gun rights activists can't get behind these common sense restrictions. Obviously you haven't had anyone close to you murdered or I can't imagine you supporting this insanity.
To receive Social Security for mental health issues, you have to be ADJUDGED MENTALLY INCOMPETENT.
Those who have are prohibited from purchasing or even having firearms present.
What is your definition of "can't take care of their own affairs"?
Don't just keep repeating the same thing you are told to, learn what is real.
Yes, I have had family members murdered, one for as little as a pack of cigarettes. One of my cousins was shot in the head in the mid 60's and carried a 38 slug in his head until he died in 2001.
The real insanity here is that YOU BELIEVE THAT PEOPLE SHOULD BE DENIED THEIR RIGHTS WITHOUT DUE PROCESS.
Ok, mule how about an opinion and solution idea from you? You demanded that from me, I posted some ideas you thought were dumb, but I offered an opinion and solution without bashing anyone.
Your turn.
Enforcing the laws already on the books would dramatically reduce gun violence.
Just imaging how many black people would be alive today in Chicago if the Democrats who run that city and are responsible for public safety actually enforced the law.
Look deeply into it. You will see that the straw purchase of guns is rarely prosecuted there.
f
Just imagine how many people in that Texas church might be alive if the Republican governor had any laws at all about guns. He whined that California had passed Texas in gun sales.
Ok, mule how about an opinion and solution idea from you? You demanded that from me, I posted some ideas you thought were dumb, but I offered an opinion and solution without bashing anyone.
Your turn.
Enforcing the laws already on the books would dramatically reduce gun violence.
Just imaging how many black people would be alive today in Chicago if the Democrats who run that city and are responsible for public safety actually enforced the law.
Look deeply into it. You will see that the straw purchase of guns is rarely prosecuted there.f
Just imagine how many people in that Texas church might be alive if the Republican governor had any laws at all about guns. He whined that California had passed Texas in gun sales.
Just imagine if the laws on the books had been enforced in the first place. He would have never gotten a gun. That is the point. Enforcing current laws makes all the difference in the world. What good are more laws if they are not being enforced. You should probably read that twice.
Truth. If enough people ignore a law it becomes useless if enforcement can't keep after it. It is tacit revolution. The traffic thread got me thinking on this: Speeding is a crime. A dangerous crime with dire consequences. We all do it. It costs us more in taxpayer money from ER to cops and cleanup and so on than mass murder, but we all accept it and do it anyway. For some strange reason we all collude to be criminals in certain areas. Sometimes it is positive, as in the victory over marijuana oppression out west. That took decades of lawbreaking to achieve.
Law isn't going to fix this. This is about alienation, a society of isolated individuals that don't pay attention to each other, lack of community. The best place to start is with dialogue like this, people need to pay attention in their own circles and fix the loose cannons before they blow.
Truth. If enough people ignore a law it becomes useless if enforcement can't keep after it. It is tacit revolution. The traffic thread got me thinking on this: Speeding is a crime. A dangerous crime with dire consequences. We all do it. It costs us more in taxpayer money from ER to cops and cleanup and so on than mass murder, but we all accept it and do it anyway. For some strange reason we all collude to be criminals in certain areas. Sometimes it is positive, as in the victory over marijuana oppression out west. That took decades of lawbreaking to achieve.
Law isn't going to fix this. This is about alienation, a society of isolated individuals that don't pay attention to each other, lack of community. The best place to start is with dialogue like this, people need to pay attention in their own circles and fix the loose cannons before they blow.
There is just no way in the world I can disagree with any of that.
MAGA 😮
Not to embarrass you or anything
LOL!
Law isn't going to fix this. This is about alienation, a society of isolated individuals that don't pay attention to each other, lack of community. The best place to start is with dialogue like this, people need to pay attention in their own circles and fix the loose cannons before they blow.
Truth
1 - There is no reason in the world for any civilian to own an automatic weapon. Period; case closed.
2 - It is a mental health and a gun issue. Did someone who was court-martialed and imprisoned for battery against his wife and child obtain weapons legally?
3 - From both a gun and an immigration standpoint: Yes, this guy was eventually dishonorably discharged. But if the US military can't vette someone how can we trust our government to vette either of the above?
Regarding:
1) Yes there is a reason. Home invasion, protection of life, property because sometimes it is not just one thug that breaks into someone's home. If there are two or more a shotgun and rifle are more cumbersome to manage taking them out, if it is just one person, shoot him in the gut with your shotgun and you are safe. He will die. If there are two or three, you can only incapacitate one at a time, and you may not have the time to delay the others unless you have a handgun.
2) Mental health/gun issues: agreed anyone arrested regardless of conviction for drunk driving, or other offenses where they may plead guilty to lesser charges should not get a gun. Domestic violence is a crime committed by someone who is a bully, wants to dominate someone else. Bullies should not have guns. Anyone convicted of a crime should not get a gun. If they are convicted it means they had faulty judgment and/or little or no regard for the rights of others. That is a big flaw, and a person like that cannot have a weapon.
Former military - If they are dishonorably discharged or have PTSD they should not have a weapon.
Developmentally disabled people - no weapon. The military have their own rules that they follow in vetting people. There needs to be perhaps another database that coordinates all military personnel and lists any conditions they have when they are being released and that needs to be accessible to the gun stores and law enforcement. Maybe we need a GUN department in the govt. and they go thru all these agencies, and get the information and then the gun stores get a yea or nay from them. If they can simply the tax code they should be able to simply this.
It is not all that difficult, if someone is a eff-up, they should not have a weapon.
Alcoholics, no weapon,
ptsd vets, no weapon,
developmentally disabled, no weapon or access to one, it is not cute, it is not a family sharing experience to see how well junior can shoot, junior should not have access to mommy or daddy's weapons. They do not have the mental capacity to comprehend when or who to shoot, or probably the skill to do it without hurting others who are not the intended targets. They get angry, confused, well angry/confused people cannot be using weapons.
Convicts, no weapon upon release from jail, domestic violence abusers, no weapon.
Visa Waiver people in this country to study - no weapon.
If they are not a US citizen - no weapon.
Would that solve some of the problems?
[Edited on 11/16/2017 by gina]
[Edited on 11/16/2017 by gina]
angry/confused people cannot be using weapons
That pretty much rules out most folks.
angry/confused people cannot be using weapons
That pretty much rules out most folks.
So how do you make sure the law the abiding citizens can have the weapons that they are entitled to under the Constitution to protect themselves and their families and prevent angry/confused people from getting a weapon?
lol - good deadpan. Thought you were serious for a sec.
I just want to know why the right to own a gun is more important than the lives of those killed by gun violence. Where are the pro-lifers on this issue or does that only matter during pregnancy?
I just want to know why the right to own a gun is more important than the lives of those killed by gun violence. Where are the pro-lifers on this issue or does that only matter during pregnancy?
Typical far-left misrepresentation and convoluting of two separate issues.
Americans have a Constitutional right to own and use weapons to protect themselves.
No one has a right to kill a baby.
I did not say "he make these issues more complicated and difficult to follow".
Those are your words.
My post pointed out that the gun issue has nothing to do with the killing babies issue.
That is only difficult to follow if your political agenda so controls you that you cannot analyze two separate matters.
[Edited on 11/17/2017 by Muleman1994]