Who's going to design the new American flag?
Melania.
I hope that turns out better than her cyber bullying initiative.
Decided not to do the "modern example" since it might (might hell, would) cause some decidedly vile remarks thrown my way about comparing blacks to*********.
I was enjoying the thread and hoping to hear you continue. I wouldn't censor your knowledge of history because a few people might find it objectionable.
Appreciate the thought BMack9911.
Still, there are some here that can't understand that if you don't take, or refuse, possession of something willed to you, you don't own it.
So here is a modern example:
You are willed a dump truck by a well meaning relative. You don't want it, or need it. You tell the executor you don't want it. The executor finds some one who will take possession of the truck.
Now, did you ever own the truck?
CSA President1 aka Jefferson Davis's statue in the KY capitol rotunda was removed this morning. A special meeting was held Friday to vote to remove the 12' 5 ton statue that has been an issue for years, but the killing of Briona Taylor in Louisville as well as the protests following the killing of George Floyd caused the governor to act quickly.
An empty bottle of Glenmore Kentucky straight bourbon was found in the base of the monument. Other "artifacts" include a note inside the bottle as well as a newspaper from the day of placement.
Interesting how years of court battles, preservation rulings, & stalled debates are quickly usurped by the danger that protesters are going to do the work themselves or current politicians are made to look out-of-touch & racist if these monuments aren't removed ASAP.
I wonder why there was a statue of Jefferson Davis in the Kentucky Capitol. While Kentucky was a slave state, it was also a Union state and was never in the C.S A.
Which kinda counteracts the theme "The war was fought to free slaves."
I wonder why there was a statue of Jefferson Davis in the Kentucky Capitol. While Kentucky was a slave state, it was also a Union state and was never in the C.S A.
Davis was born in Fairview KY. The statue was placed in the Rotunda in 1936 by the UDC to "reaffirm white supremacy amid threats of lynchings and segregation that were prevalent at the time," according to the Historic Properties Advisory Committee. Although he requested to be buried in his native Kentucky, his widow accepted Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond VA's offer to bury him along w/28 Confederate generals.
I wonder why there was a statue of Jefferson Davis in the Kentucky Capitol. While Kentucky was a slave state, it was also a Union state and was never in the C.S A.
Davis was born in Fairview KY. The statue was placed in the Rotunda in 1936 by the UDC to "reaffirm white supremacy amid threats of lynchings and segregation that were prevalent at the time," according to the Historic Properties Advisory Committee. Although he requested to be buried in his native Kentucky, his widow accepted Hollywood Cemetery in Richmond VA's offer to bury him along w/28 Confederate generals.
I had forgotten he was born there since he spent most of hid life around Mississippi and Louisiana.
What I remember about his burials was that his wife didn't want him buried on their plantation due to frequent flooding, he was first buried in Metier at New Orleans.
She later took petitions from places that wanted him buried there, and Macon was one of those places.
Interesting note for those who care: Davis was captured on one of the family farms close to where I was born.
I had forgotten he was born there since he spent most of hid life around Mississippi and Louisiana.
Interesting note for those who care: Davis was captured on one of the family farms close to where I was born.
It's interesting that he was captured near where you were born. Although he went to Congress from Mississippi, he seemed to have wanderlust both before & after the war - ranging from Montreal, Liverpool, Memphis to Cuba & lots of places in between. He expressed in writing several times that he wanted to be buried on his family's plantation near Vicksburg, but as you say, it was out of the question due to flooding (& estate litigation). His second choice was KY - either Louisville or next to a church that he'd dedicated built on the site of his birthplace. Apparently, he was ruined financially & his widow would only accept charity through a trust that preferred Richmond given its status as capitol of the Confederacy. So, his body was moved from Metarie LA to Richmond. Interesting that he was pardoned for treason by Pres Andrew Johnson but didn't have his US citizenship restored until 1978 through an act of Congress signed by Carter.
Did you ever watch a History series called "Curse of Civil War Gold"?
The episode where they searched a field close to where Davis was captured (actually across the road from there)
belongs to one of my 3rd or 4th cousins, my Dad and I did a lot of Quail hunting there.
I've wanted so many times to e-mail the show and tell them the legend of the gold never leaving Macon, but hidden in a cave close to the river.
Did you ever watch a History series called "Curse of Civil War Gold"?
The episode where they searched a field close to where Davis was captured (actually across the road from there)
belongs to one of my 3rd or 4th cousins, my Dad and I did a lot of Quail hunting there.
I've wanted so many times to e-mail the show and tell them the legend of the gold never leaving Macon, but hidden in a cave close to the river.
I'll add it to my Covid Viewing list. Thanks.
Definitely write the producer/director if there's more to the story.
Decided not to do the "modern example" since it might (might hell, would) cause some decidedly vile remarks thrown my way about comparing blacks to*********.
I was enjoying the thread and hoping to hear you continue. I wouldn't censor your knowledge of history because a few people might find it objectionable.
Appreciate the thought BMack9911.
Still, there are some here that can't understand that if you don't take, or refuse, possession of something willed to you, you don't own it.
So here is a modern example:
You are willed a dump truck by a well meaning relative. You don't want it, or need it. You tell the executor you don't want it. The executor finds some one who will take possession of the truck.
Now, did you ever own the truck?
WEAK! If an executor finds a new owner for you, it was indeed yours on paper. Whether you wanted it or not it was willed to you, it was yours.
You're really grasping at straws anyway with that argument but what of the slaves included in the estate Mr. Lee was the executor of? Why did Mr. Lee petition to keep them as slaves rather than setting them free?
That modern example doesn't make you racist, if someone wanted to call you out on that they would point out that you think its ok to use the N word because Al Sharpton said it.....that and you go a diatribe of whitewashed history anytime the Confederate monument subject comes up.
BrerRabbit. There is a big statue of Dr. King in my hometown. There are buttons one can push and hear excerpts from sermons.
It is at one end of the Martin Luther King, Jr. Pedestrian Bridge. The bridge isn't very wide but it use to carry traffic over 5 or 6 railroad tracks one way and was built in 1891 as the Henry Street bridge for Patrick Henry. The street that now stops where the bridge begins is still called Henry Street. There is also Jefferson St, Franklin Rd, Washington Ave and King George Ave. These names date back to the 1800's for these streets.
cyclone88. Yes Jewish men started the motion picture industry. All 4 Warner Brothers, Samuel Goldwyn, Marques Lowe, Louie B. Mayer, Harry Cohn ( Columbia Pictures), Adolph Zucker ( Paramount) etc were all Jews.
As a teen I work in the local theaters in my hometown changing signs, movie posters and ushering and the 4 I was with were owned by Elmore Hines who was Jewish and a great guy. He was a baseball player when he was young. He also had pool halls, a bowling alley and 2 cigar stores with soda fountains and drugs.
cyclone88. Yes Jewish men started the motion picture industry. All 4 Warner Brothers, Samuel Goldwyn, Marques Lowe, Louie B. Mayer, Harry Cohn ( Columbia Pictures), Adolph Zucker ( Paramount) etc were all Jews.
Just thought you'd find the book interesting. The major industries on the East Coast were dominated by WASPs. The combination of sunny California & the brand new field of making movies led to what was referred to as a Jewish Empire in the early 20th century.
No confederate pulldowns in Atlanta despite the killing of Rayshard Brooks. On Friday, however, a DeKalb County (which includes some part of Atlanta) judge ordered the removal of its Confederate obelisk by no later than 6/26. Seems public safety is the winning argument for circumventing various ordinances, preservation status, & other obstacles to get rid of these monuments.
The city commissioned a report about how to deal w/monuments & street names in 2017 after Charlottesville. Streets have been renamed. Many of the statues are already in cemeteries w/Confederate soldiers which was deemed acceptable. No action has been taken on Jim Crow & Civil Rights era monuments.
Some moron set the National Civil War Naval Museum in Columbus, Ga. on fire destroying a sh*tload of history.
Where is the line drawn as to where history is deemed offensive?
Some moron set the National Civil War Naval Museum in Columbus, Ga. on fire destroying a sh*tload of history.
Well that's just dumb and ignorant of him. Statues and public displays are how we honor those we revere. Museums are how we preserve our history, warts and all.
Meanwhile, Santa Fe military cosplayers incite a dumpster fire.
Where is the line drawn as to where history is deemed offensive?
Brother BIGV, don’t insinuate that the criminal’s line is the same as anyone else’s, otherwise it will give those libs ammunition to use against us. We can’t let our guard down and make stupid mistakes like this. Just follow my lead brother.
Thanks Boynton Brother!....
I'll be sure to let the Administrators know you have returned!
Some moron set the National Civil War Naval Museum in Columbus, Ga. on fire destroying a sh*tload of history. Where is the line drawn as to where history is deemed offensive?
Can't answer that question, but for all we know it was the name Columbus that triggered the arson.
There was a time when even elementary students knew that museums preserved & protected the art & artifacts of a culture. It was a safe place where scholars & curious citizens came to enjoy or learn or expand their points of view. I don't think people recognize that now. People see a buzz word - Confederate - & charge ahead w/o consideration or deliberation.
This thread focuses on statues of no intrinsic value that were deliberately placed in high visibility locations to remind blacks of their subservient position to white men. Evidence provided by those who erected them note that there is nothing honorable about them; their purpose is purely intimidation.
Some of those statutes - like the ones in Atlanta - are already in cemeteries for Confederate soldiers and/or have plans to be removed to museums where they'll serve an educational purpose.
Apparently, the most valuable pieces in the naval collection weren't affected. There's a reward for information leading to the arsonist who caused damage to the outbuilding of the museum & 2 ships.
A statue of an abolitionist was defaced and jerked down too. Some of these people just want to burn and destroy anything. Why burn down the Wendy's in Atlanta were Mr. Brooks was shot and killed by Atlanta police? Now 36 people don't have a job because their restaurant was destroyed. Atlanta Police is trying to identify the arsonists and arrest them. The people destroying these statues need to be arrested too. In Virginia the Governor is having them removed by professionals safely. A protester was seriously injured by a statue being toppled. They are heavy.
Check Wikipedia to see how many things are named for Robert E. Lee in this country. I was astonished. In Virginia there is Washington and Lee University. Named for George Washington originally and Lee's name was added in the 1800's.
Columbus, Georgia going to change its name? Columbus, Ohio?, Columbia, South Carolina?, Washington, District of Columbia?, British Columbia?, Columbia River?, Columbia Pictures?, Columbia University?, CBS Columbia Broadcasting System.
NONE of these will be changed. Columbus Circle in Manhattan and the big statue of Christopher Columbus in the middle isn't going anywhere!!! New York mayor Bill de Blasio was open to removing it and changing the name of the circle which was erected by New York Italians in 1892 on the 400th anniversary of Columbus's voyage. But city Italians hit the ceiling. De Blasio was uninvited to their annual Manhattan parade and informed they would no longer support him. De Blasio and Governor Cuomo agreed Columbus is going nowhere in New York City. The Italian's won't stand for it. De Blasio was prodded to remove Columbus by some Latian American people but the Italian people yelled louder and that was that. Columbus Circle isn't going anywhere. Columbus was financed by Spain but was an Italian as you know.
"Once you carve it in stone, it is written forever"
- Constantine the Great
Well, I made that up. But you get the point.
Some of these people just want to burn and destroy anything. Why burn down the Wendy's in Atlanta were Mr. Brooks was shot and killed by Atlanta police? Now 36 people don't have a job because their restaurant was destroyed.
I understand the frustration re the monuments, but it is dangerous. As one person in England said - "enough debate; time for action." When 4 monuments were beheaded in Portsmouth VA last weekend, a falling piece of the monument hit a bystander who is in critical condition in the hospital w/a head injury. The next day, the mayor of the neighboring city Norfolk had crews out at 7 am removing their monument. Statutes in both Louisville & DeKalb were/are being removed ASAP for public safety reasons.
Some of these statues are enormous which is why I include height & weight where it's available. The one in Dallas was 65 feet tall!!!!!
There are more than 700 of these statues throughout the US w/only 3 states w/none - OR, AK, MT. I'm only posting about Confederate monuments because they're immediately relevant now. They were erected specifically to intimidate blacks.
Columbus is a whole other matter I don't know enough about to even mention although I understand there have been incidents involving statues to him & other western "conquerors" in southwestern states. I think it's a mistake to lump Confederate & Columbus together.
[Edited on 6/17/2020 by cyclone88]
WEAK! If an executor finds a new owner for you, it was indeed yours on paper. Whether you wanted it or not it was willed to you, it was yours.
NOPE, did that in caps so you would see it.
Have you never heard of disclaiming an inheritance? If not, look it up.
Some of these people just want to burn and destroy anything. Why burn down the Wendy's in Atlanta were Mr. Brooks was shot and killed by Atlanta police? Now 36 people don't have a job because their restaurant was destroyed.
I understand the frustration re the monuments, but it is dangerous. As one person in England said - "enough debate; time for action." When 4 monuments were beheaded in Portsmouth VA last weekend, a falling piece of the monument hit a bystander who is in critical condition in the hospital w/a head injury. The next day, the mayor of the neighboring city Norfolk had crews out at 7 am removing their monument. Statutes in both Louisville & DeKalb were/are being removed ASAP for public safety reasons.
Some of these statues are enormous which is why I include height & weight where it's available. The one in Dallas was 65 feet tall!!!!!
There are more than 700 of these statues throughout the US w/only 3 states w/none - OR, AK, MT. I'm only posting about Confederate monuments because they're immediately relevant now. They were erected specifically to intimidate blacks.
Columbus is a whole other matter I don't know enough about to even mention although I understand there have been incidents involving statues to him & other western "conquerors" in southwestern states. I think it's a mistake to lump Confederate & Columbus together.
[Edited on 6/17/2020 by cyclone88]
Maybe the ones that haven't been destroyed can be moved to Mar A Lago. Seems like a good fit.
[Edited on 6/17/2020 by cyclone88]
Maybe the ones that haven't been destroyed can be moved to Mar A Lago. Seems like a good fit.
To MartinD28, I see no problem if the monuments are moved to private property with the property owners, or local organizations, responsible for the upkeep.
Why did Mr. Lee petition to keep them as slaves rather than setting them free?
Crickets. I guess you missed that part since it wasn’t all caps, but please continue to give us all your justifications of why you get all crotchety every time a monument to White Supremacy falls. I get it, your family didn’t own slaves, the Civil War wasn’t about slavery for all enlisted party’s it was perceived self preservation, but to continue to deny that for the elites of the South there was any one issue more important than continuing the practice of chattel slavery falls into the category of whitewashed history.
Once Lincoln remarked after hearing a southern politition speak to a group of men about the benefits of slavery. "My dear man. If slavery affords such benefits, then submit to being a slave yourself then report to us".
Revelation 3:20 " I am at the door knocking. If anyone opens, I will go in and dine with them and they with me".
Some scholars doubt Jesus even existed as a historical character. Many more reject many New Testament claims about him. I don't know whether they are right or wrong. But whoever wrote these words attributed to Jesus 2,000 years ago ignored secterian concerns and racial or sexual superiority. It is agreed the words were originally written in Greek. In the Greek the word translated "anyone" or some translations "man" means MANKIND. Male, female, red, yellow, black or white.
Thus the character Jesus, made up or historical, human or divine, knocks on my door, your door in this story wanting to dine with us and be our friend no matter male, female, or what color or race. 2,000 years later how many have that kind of heart? Maybe Jaimoe would be one.
Governor Cuomo and Mayor de Blasio said yesterday COLUMBUS CIRCLE AND THE STATUE OF CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS WILL NOT BE REMOVED!!!!!! The circle and statue have been in Manhattan since 1892, the 400th anniversary of Columbus' first voyage by ITALIANS living in New York City.
I don’t know blackey - the statue in front of city hall in his namesake city of Columbus, (the capitol of) Ohio is coming down tomorrow & going into storage
Wonder if pressure from the PC crowd, coupled w/political expediency, will cause an about-face by the mayor & governor
[Edited on 6/18/2020 by Stephen]
I don’t know blackey - the statue in front of city hall in his namesake city of Columbus, (the capitol of) Ohio is coming down tomorrow & going into storage
Wonder if pressure from the PC crowd, coupled w/political expediency, will cause an about-face by the mayor & governor
Hey Stephen. BrerRabbit has started a Columbus thread so as not to commingle current Confederate protests and Columbus debates & activism. He's quite knowledgeable on the topic.
NONE of these will be changed. Columbus Circle in Manhattan and the big statue of Christopher Columbus in the middle isn't going anywhere!!! New York mayor Bill de Blasio was open to removing it and changing the name of the circle which was erected by New York Italians in 1892 on the 400th anniversary of Columbus's voyage. But city Italians hit the ceiling. De Blasio was uninvited to their annual Manhattan parade and informed they would no longer support him. De Blasio and Governor Cuomo agreed Columbus is going nowhere in New York City. The Italian's won't stand for it. De Blasio was prodded to remove Columbus by some Latian American people but the Italian people yelled louder and that was that. Columbus Circle isn't going anywhere. Columbus was financed by Spain but was an Italian as you know.
Hey blackey. BrerRabbit just started a thread on Columbus. He's much more equipped to discuss it. All I know is that I pass the one at Columbus Circle on a daily basis & it's been a contentious issue for at least 30 years.
2 Confederate statues were removed yesterday from Houston's city parks ahead of the Juneteenth celebrations. Both will be put in storage although there's a bizarre suggestion that one be put in Houston's Museum of African American Culture over the objection of the state NAACP Director.
The University of Mississippi got approval today to remove its Confederate statue from its entrance to the university's cemetery at some as yet to be determined date. It was erected in 1906 & dedicated by a political candidate for governor wearing a Confederate uniform. In 1906. Gubernatorial candidate in a Confederate uniform.
In both Houston & Oxford, the reasons for removing the statues was public safety.
[Edited on 6/19/2020 by cyclone88]
Seems like a good place to stop.
The Robert E Lee statue which the governor planned to remove is now being litigated in 3 cases - homeowners along the avenue are worried about losing the prestigious Monument Avenue luster & more importantly, favorable tax treatment. Concrete barriers have been installed around the statue but this morning, an armed man at the monument was taken into custody.
By the end of Juneteenth night, a statue in DC had been toppled as well as one outside the Raleigh capitol building.
There's definitely support that the monuments now are a threat to public safety. Thanks for indulging my interest.
