Not as simple as asking if this will work, but anyone think this can work?
One can hope, bring our troops home!
Let them do what they've done for thousands of years, kill each other. They do a fine job of that without our help/ intervening.
Laterz
Let them do what they've done for thousands of years, kill each other. They do a fine job of that without our help/ intervening.
Agreed, not our fight.
Body bags loaded onto USAF planes in OkInawa filled with heroin, South Vietnam the safest exit point.
Some of the largest poppy fields located in Afghanistan, go straight to the source.i
If we continue having drones that assassinate people, it will not work.
Also If the Afghan National Army needs continuous air support then they are not ready as a stand alone army.
If we do not arm the common citizens allowing them to protect their homes, lives, wives, children and property, no it will not work - warlords will fight for jurisdiction and civil war will break out.
There is much work that needs to be done there, some Afghans want a more moderate society with more freedoms, who can ensure they get and keep that? The ANA is no match for the experienced fighters from the Taliban and other groups.
For peace, people need to have prosperity, they need micro businesses, and what about those who are out in the field doing armed jihad all day, what will they do?
Infastructure is lacking in many areas, who will pay to build these things?
So I'm skeptical it can work. If we can keep a residual special operations force there to conduct what has become US counter terrorism...that can work I think. But the whole Taliban vs the rest of the Afghans.
Different people in these countries are going to fight, for some it is all they know. Wish we could just completely stay the hell out of it, but there are national security risks in play.
This is always the problem in these things, how the hell do you leave once you are there?
It will never be a perfect situation Nebish. Here are the key points to the peace plan.
https://www.rferl.org/a/best-shot-at-peace-explaining-the-tenuous-u-s--taliban-deal/30447725.html
Pompeo is reportedly going to Qatar to sign the deal.
[Edited on 2/28/2020 by gina]
Yes the treaty signing is going to happen. Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Army General Mark Milley will be in Kabul to announce it tommorrow. Meanwhile the treaty will be signed in Doha, and witnessed by representatives from 27 countries. Afghan President Abdul Ghani selected 7 representatives he is sending. Even Russia is sending Putin's special envoy for Afghanistan Zamir Kabulov to witness it.
So what's in it for the Taliban that make them want to sign this? Release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners. Yes, per Sayed Akbar Agha, a former Taliban commander. An intra-Afghan dialogue will begin with the Afghan government and the Taliban so that peace can begin in the country.
https://www.avapress.com/en/news/204399/peace-deal-to-be-signed-next-week-taliban-sources
https://www.avapress.com/en/news/204405/kabulov-to-attend-signing-ceremony-of-us-taliban-deal
Trump is right this is truly historic, and good for the common Afghans and the Taliban who had war thrust upon them in 2001, when they had nothing to do with 9-11-01, NOR did they hide Osama. Osama was given Tora Bora by an Arab who owned it after the Soviet War. Per Osama's son who wrote a book with Osama's first wife, Mullah Omar asked Osama to leave after all the bombing we did to that country and he agreed but asked for 1-2 years to do that, since he had more than 150 people with him that would need to be relocated. Being a man of valor, honor Omar would not give Osama up since he sought refuge in the country and then we just kept shooting at everyone and mercilessly bombing that country. The US even mistakenly sent a hellfire drone missile in January 2002 on a car the military thought was occupied by Osama, when Osama had went over the border to Pakistan in December. It was Mullah Omar's car, he got out to visit a family member's house, he was not even in the house for 5 minutes and the drone hit, killing his wife and newborn son. Did he scream Death to America? No. He handled it with dignity, but after that jihad would not stop until foreign forces leave the country. There is no other way for peace in that land. We need to take our drones, our troops and leave their lands.
They are a sovereign nation. We want our sovereignty respected we need to show them the same regard.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/29/us-taliban-sign-peace-agreement-afghanistan-war
Troop levels will be cut to 8,600 over the next 135 days and five bases will be closed. If both sides keep to their commitments, all US military forces could leave Afghanistan by spring 2021, although Washington is thought to want to keep intelligence operatives on the ground fighting Isis and al-Qaida.
The deal also promises work on a prisoner exchange ahead of Afghan talks due to start on 10 March, with the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners in return for the insurgents freeing 1,000 government soldiers.
Brer, the war should not go on forever. The Afghans need to determine their own destiny. I am aware that drone strikes were occurring even within the last two weeks. 10,000 civilians were killed in the past year. You may be right that our govt. has other priorities and things on their mind right now. There are 750,000 troops that have went to the middle east, and the build up has been going on since last summer in Anbar province in Iraq. We all know the BIG war between Israel v Iran, Russia, China and the entire Muslim world can happen at anytime. The US wants Pakistan as a strategic partner to be able to use their airbases if/when that war breaks out, but if we were still killing Afghans, they would not be so quick to allow us to do that. The lessons from the US colonization of America should not be forgotten, the Apache and Sioux nations were overcome.
I think there will be sectarian factions vying for power and even trying to sabotage the peace process but a process is a process, it is not perfect from it's inception or along the way. I still think the common people need second amendment type rights to bear arms to prevent any one group from taking them over. The Taliban were only able to take over the country because there was no law or order, and they were blessed. 15 students with 30 rifles set out to take back their country, Mullah Omar even put on the Cloak of the Prophet of Islam before they headed out to do this. They had supernatural, spiritual assistance throughout their fights. Their faith is stronger than their adversaries. God gave them a country, took it away to see how they would react and if they would lose their faith, they did not. He has some of them who are blessed and highly favored in Qatar, if the Saudi regime ever fails, I think God will grant them custody over Makkah, and when the final jihad happens on this earth, some of them will be hiding Jesus and going with him to Jerusalem to oust the anti-Christ from the Temple. There are prophecies that in the last days the oil fields of Saudi will be on fire and the smoke so thick, people will have to migrate.
Prophecies happen, they take a lot of time to happen, but they do. God only changes what he does with a people when they change themselves and reach out to him. When they align themselves with his will, he gives them victories, the challenges remain, evolve, but jihad will continue till Judgement Day. The greatest jihad being with the internal struggles a person faces within themselves and their lower desires.
For now this is a very hopeful day.
". . .although Washington is thought to want to keep intelligence operatives on the ground fighting Isis and al-Qaida.. . ."
Read: "Maintaining protection of US national interests in Central Asia."
I can't argue with anyone who questions the motives of US foreign policy, because...there are a lot of motives and national interest is rather ambiguous.
As real as any other motives or potential objectives that may be out there, I do think that counterterrorism is as big as any. That is the new war on terror - the US military is everywhere and I can't see that changing.
Too much money to be made for everyone to come home. The troops coming home is a win for us, but the Afghan peoples are the losers in the long run. Regime has a definition in the dictionary, the U.S government has a totally different one.
I should've provided the link to that graphic:
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/articles/2018-01-12/us-counterterrorism-forces-are-active-in-many-more-places-than-you-know
Not sure of the history of US Military presence in France post-war.
Message from the Amir (Leader) of the Taliban on the Signing of the Peace Agreement 2-29-20
In the name of Allah, the most merciful, the most compassionate,
Allah is the greatest, praise be to Allah in abundance and glory be to Allah at the beginning and the end of the day.
Praise be to Allah, he fulfilled his promises, helped his slave, strengthened his forces and he alone defeated the Ahzab (confederates) and peace and blessings be upon the one whom has no Prophet after him and on his descendants and companions who spread his religion.
On the 7th of October 2001 after the allied forces led by America transgressed against our homeland, the Islamic Emirate representing the Afghan nation, with the divine help of Allah, subhanahu wa t’aala, finally reached an agreement about the termination of occupation of Afghanistan following nearly nineteen years of jihad and struggle.
This victory is the collective victory of the entire Muslim and Mujahid nation of our fellow brothers and sisters who presented extraordinary sacrifices of life and wealth for nearly two decades. The accord about complete withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan and never intervening in its affairs in the future is undoubtedly a great achievement.
The Islamic Emirate extends its heartfelt felicitation to all strata of society specifically to the Mujahideen and the families of the martyrs, the imprisoned, wounded, maimed, displaced and the nation as a whole on the occasion of this tremendous accomplishment and considers this great victory a product of divine help of Allah, the heroics of the Mujahideen and the sincerity, efforts, struggles, sacrifices of this nation.
Following this great achievement, I wish to turn the attentions of the Mujahideen and the entire nation to these points concerning the forthcoming state of affairs.
This accord with the United States about the termination of occupation that shall deliver our people from subjugation is a significant milestone and a special beneficence, help and reward from Allah (subhannahu wa t’aala), therefore, we must not label this accomplishment the work of a particular individual or group but consider it a reward from Allah and the product of the sacrifices of the entire mujahid nation. The agreement between the Islamic Emirate and the United States drafted in compliance with Islamic principles and conforming with international standards is a pledge that must be honored by all mujahideen and Afghans. No official or individual of the Islamic Emirate nor anyone from the general public must violate these terms and everyone must deem it an obligation because Islam does not have any room for treachery or deceit and classified such an act as a great sin. However, if the other party does oppose or violate this agreement then the entire nation must maintain robust defense capabilities.
The believing Afghan nation specifically the Mujahideen must thank Allah (subhannahu wa t’aala) for the achievements gained and must commit themselves to even further taqwa (fear of Allah), truthfulness and sincerity while refraining from arrogance, pride, superiority and meritorious behavior because such things are in conflict within the spirit of jihad and victory.
Successful negotiations with the United States prove that solutions can be found for all seemingly complex issues. The success of these negotiations relays a message from the Islamic Emirate to all internal actors that we are ready for a rational and just solution. Come, let us find a solution to our problems in light of the religious ad national values of our people and let the Kabul administration end its opposition towards this nation.
The Islamic Emirate believes in maintaining positive bilateral relations with the world and especially with the regional countries and is committed to the principle of good neighborly relations with its neighbors.
We assure our oppressed people that all male and female compatriots shall be given their due rights under the shade of a just and true Islamic government.
Anyone who partook in hostilities against the Islamic Emirate or anyone with reservations about the Islamic Emirate is forgiven and pardoned for all past actions and we seek for them Islamic brotherhood, national unity and a prosperous life.
The Islamic Emirate shall work towards providing quality (religious and scientific) education, employment, trade opportunities, development and growth in all public sectors because this is the basic right of all Afghans and a fundamental need for our national progress, prosperity and well-being.
The mujahideen of the Islamic Emirate must further solidify, organize and bolster their ranks so that they can attain their objective of establishing a Islamic government and bringing prosperity to their fellow brethren, following the end of occupation while simultaneously preventing further unfortunate events, protecting Islamic government, maintaining combat readiness against all potential threats to peace and security and being at the service of the people.
The Islamic Emirate calls on all the strata of our faithful nation, the noble scholars, tribal elders, students and the general public to preserve their unity and cooperation in finding solutions to our domestic issues just as they worked diligently with their mujahideen brothers in ending the occupation so that this phase also attains success and Afghanistan is blessed with peace and a just Islamic government.
To end, I express my gratitude to the State of Qatar and its honorable Emir, Sheikh Tamim bin Hamad al Thani, for facilitating these negotiations and earnestly aiding this process. I also thank and extend best wishes to the States of Pakistan, Uzbekistan, China, Iran, Russia, Indonesia, Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, the United Arab Emirates and all others that have helped in this process.
Leader of the Islamic Emirate
Amir ul Mumineen, Sheikh ul Hadith
Mawlawi Hibatullah Akhundzada
COMMENTS:
They are optimistic but nor boastful or arrogant. Those characteristics are in them, that is their sabeeluna (their way).
They are thankful, hopeful but also recognize the need to be prepared, vigilant and ready IF the agreement is violated as they say "islam has no room for treachery, deceit, it is a great sin". They are acting in good confidence with the best manners, if the US reciprocates, then YES peace is possible.
Thank you President Trump for giving them the chance. 
[Edited on 3/1/2020 by gina]
3-2-20 Monday
There have been reports that the Taliban are going to resume "operations". They say "the 7 day reduction in violence has ended and "our operations will continue as normal. Per the agreement our mujahideen will not attack foreign forces but our operations will continue against the Kabul administration forces".
What's going on?
The Afghan government has refused (thus far) to release the 5,000 prisoners they are holding in Kabul. The Taliban have 1,000 prisoners they want to swap, and this was part of the Agreement with the United States. The Kabul Administration is part of the allied, coalition forces that the United States supports.
The Taliban re-iterate one of their points from the beginning, "there can be no intra-Afghan dialogue without an exchange of prisoners".
Afghan President Ghani said "he expected the reduction in violence will continue with a goal to reach full cease fire"
The US says: "The US is committed to start immediately to work wilth all relevant sides on a plan to expeditiously release combat and political prisoners as a confidence building measure with the coordination and approval of all relevant sides".
The prisoner exchange PER THE AGREEMENT is scheduled for MARCH 10th.
The problem is The Afghan government never agreed to release the prisoners in the first place.
Sediqi Seddiqui, spokesman for President Ghani said the Afghan government "has not made any commitment to release 5,000 prisoners BEFORE the start of any potential negotiation." They also said "the Taliban need to address significant issues including the need for a cease-fire."
"We hope that the Taliban will comply with their commitments made in agreement with the US signed 29 February which are cutting ties with Al Qaida and other terrorists and sit down with the Afghan government for a negotiation leading to a political settlement".
The Taliban responded:
"We are fully ready for the intra-Afghan talks but we are waiting for the release of our 5,000 prisoners. If our 5,000 prisoners - 100 or 200 more or less does not matter - do not get released there will be no intra-Afghan talks.”
The also explained that many of the prisoners are old and not in great health. There is no reason to keep them behind bars. They are not in the condition to be laying out on a battlefield for 12 hours as some of the fighters do.
https://twitter.com/SediqSediqqi/status/1234448488240467968
Spokesman for Afghan President Ashraf Ghani
REMARKS:
There are specific time frames and dates within the agreement for both sides to comply with. The prisoner exchange is supposed to take place on MARCH 10th, the sticking point right now is the Kabul Administration denying that they agreed to release their 5,000 prisoners. Since the Taliban refused to speak with them on anything they were not aware of this. Everyone thought the negotiators worked out these things since it is in the agreement that was signed. IF/WHEN the prisoners are released if there is a move to re-take Afghanistan by the Taliban, then it would be considered that they violated the agreement and one would expect US forces to come back to stop an insurgency. Everyone understands this, so it seems like the point is just getting Ghani on board and facilitating release of the prisoners. Since forces will still be there even when the first group withdraws this does not seem to be something Kabul should worry about. The only problem(s) that could come up would be during the intra-Afghan talks about what an Islamic government should look like, be composed of, and any revisions to the governance of the country.
[Edited on 3/2/2020 by gina]
WHAT THE PEACE AGREEMENT SAYS:
Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan between the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban and the United States of America February 29, 2020
A comprehensive peace agreement is made of four parts:
1. Guarantees and enforcement mechanisms that will prevent the use of the soil of Afghanistan by any group or individual against the security of the United States and its allies.
2. Guarantees, enforcement mechanisms, and announcement of a timeline for the withdrawal of all foreign forces from Afghanistan.
3. After the announcement of guarantees for a complete withdrawal of foreign forces and timeline in the presence of international witnesses, and guarantees and the announcement in the presence of international witnesses that Afghan soil will not be used against the security of the United States and its allies, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will start intra-Afghan negotiations with Afghan sides on March 10, 2020, which corresponds to Rajab 15, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 20, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar.
4. A permanent and comprehensive ceasefire will be an item on the agenda of the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations. The participants of intra-Afghan negotiations will discuss the date and modalities of a permanent and comprehensive ceasefire, including joint implementation mechanisms, which will be announced along with the completion and agreement over the future political roadmap of Afghanistan.
The four parts above are interrelated and each will be implemented in accordance with its own agreed timeline and agreed terms. Agreement on the first two parts paves the way for the last two parts.
Following is the text of the agreement for the implementation of parts one and two of the above. Both sides agree that these two parts are interconnected. The obligations of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban in this agreement apply in areas under their control until the formation of the new post-settlement Afghan Islamic government as determined by the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations.
PART ONE
The United States is committed to withdraw from Afghanistan all military forces of the United States, its allies, and Coalition partners, including all non-diplomatic civilian personnel, private security contractors, trainers, advisors, and supporting services personnel within fourteen (14) months following announcement of this agreement, and will take the following measures in this regard:
A. The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will take the following measures in the first one hundred thirty-five (135) days:
1) They will reduce the number of U.S. forces in Afghanistan to eight thousand six hundred (8,600) and proportionally bring reduction in the number of its allies and Coalition forces.
2) The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will withdraw all their forces from five (5) military bases.
B. With the commitment and action on the obligations of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban in Part Two of this agreement, the United States, its allies, and the Coalition will execute the following:
1) The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will complete withdrawal of all remaining forces from Afghanistan within the remaining nine and a half (9.5) months.
2) The United States, its allies, and the Coalition will withdraw all their forces from remaining bases.
C. The United States is committed to start immediately to work with all relevant sides on a plan to expeditiously release combat and political prisoners as a confidence building measure with the coordination and approval of all relevant sides. Up to five thousand (5,000) prisoners of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban and up to one thousand (1,000) prisoners of the other side will be released by March 10, 2020, the first day of intra-Afghan negotiations, which corresponds to Rajab 15, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 20, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar. The relevant sides have the goal of releasing all the remaining prisoners over the course of the subsequent three months. The United States commits to completing this goal. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban commits that its released prisoners will be committed to the responsibilities mentioned in this agreement so that they will not pose a threat to the security of the United States and its allies.
D. With the start of intra-Afghan negotiations, the United States will initiate an administrative review of current U.S. sanctions and the rewards list against members of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban with the goal of removing these sanctions by August 27, 2020, which corresponds to Muharram 8, 1442 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Saunbola 6, 1399 on the Hijri Solar calendar.
E. With the start of intra-Afghan negotiations, the United States will start diplomatic engagement with other members of the United Nations Security Council and Afghanistan to remove members of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban from the sanctions list with the aim of achieving this objective by May 29, 2020, which corresponds to Shawwal 6, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Jawza 9, 1399 on the Hijri Solar calendar.
F. The United States and its allies will refrain from the threat or the use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Afghanistan or intervening in its domestic affairs.
PART TWO
In conjunction with the announcement of this agreement, the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will take the following steps to prevent any group or individual, including al-Qa'ida, from using the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies:
1. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will not allow any of its members, other individuals or groups, including al-Qa'ida, to use the soil of Afghanistan to threaten the security of the United States and its allies.
2. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will send a clear message that those who pose a threat to the security of the United States and its allies have no place in Afghanistan, and will instruct members of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban not to cooperate with groups or individuals threatening the security of the United States and its allies.
3. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will prevent any group or individual in Afghanistan from threatening the security of the United States and its allies, and will prevent them from recruiting, training, and fundraising and will not host them in accordance with the commitments in this agreement.
4. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban is committed to deal with those seeking asylum or residence in Afghanistan according to international migration law and the commitments of this agreement, so that such persons do not pose a threat to the security of the United States and its allies.
5. The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban will not provide visas, passports, travel permits, or other legal documents to those who pose a threat to the security of the United States and its allies to enter Afghanistan.
PART THREE
1. The United States will request the recognition and endorsement of the United Nations Security Council for this agreement.
2. The United States and the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan which is not recognized by the United States as a state and is known as the Taliban seek positive relations with each other and expect that the relations between the United States and the new post-settlement Afghan Islamic government as determined by the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations will be positive.
3. The United States will seek economic cooperation for reconstruction with the new post-settlement Afghan Islamic government as determined by the intra-Afghan dialogue and negotiations, and will not intervene in its internal affairs.
Signed in Doha, Qatar on February 29, 2020, which corresponds to Rajab 5, 1441 on the Hijri Lunar calendar and Hoot 10, 1398 on the Hijri Solar calendar, in duplicate, in Pashto, Dari, and English languages, each text being equally authentic.
Hey Mister Taliban tally me banana
Shiite come and I wanna make a bomb
It might be unraveling already.
Yes there are some difficulties and the Taliban have resumed 'operations' against the Kabul administration whom they do not think is a legitamite government.
1. There are a couple of things, the Peace Agreement said the prisoner exchanges would take place on March 10th, March t0th is not here yet, so there is no need to get trigger happy now.
2. Secondly, the Quran says that God allows bad leaders and people must accept that the leaders will be moved at HIS dispensation, they are not supposed to take matters into their hands to hurry up the leaving of a leader they do not like.
Ayman al-Zawhiri did a long, really good explanation of secular law vs. sharia law. Where does Afghanistan fall? It has had short lived, dysfunctional governance for a long time due to the long wars. Former President Karzai said during the last election that the Taliban could run any candidates they wanted to in the elections, Omar himself could run if he wanted to as could any Afghan citizen. The Taliban chose not to participate in the elections nor run any candidates, but they took it a step further telling the people they were NOT allowed to vote and if they could them, they cought those who voted could have their finger cut off. The polling stations in an effort to thwart people voting more than once would ink someone's finger after they voted.
Hamas became a political force in Gaza, as did Hezbollah in Lebanon. To change the government, the Taliban need to get candidates into the sectors and change from within. They prefer a more anarchist approach but that will not work. The US will not leave the country to allow this to occur.
There are a bunch of emboldened Afghans now, including https://afghansforpeace.com/
who say they were not contacted or included in negotiations and they want an Afghan owned, Afghan led, Afghan maintained peace including the voices of all the people, particularly the women. They complainted "Afghan women are not asking anyone to grant us our rights. Our rights are clearly enshrined in our country's Constitution, our national laws, and Sharia law, or message to Mr. Haqqani and other Taliban negotiators is simple, "our rights are guaranteed and we have a right to sit at any table you do".
Well now, they are a force to be reckoned with.
Perhaps the best solution is like Pakistan's. Tribal areas are ruled by laws consistent with strict interpretations of Islam, such as Waziristan. The Taliban have 9 or 11 provinces which they control and can invoke village values there, but the major cities may not be under their control unless they get into Parliament etc. and are represented there able to bring forth their views and get legislation passed.
You have sons of the older mujahideen who want to bring forth their ideas, including former Commander Ahmad Shah Masood (whom Al Qaida assassinated). He does not want the old world ways of governance.
An intra-Afghan dialogue and accord is essential to peace in the country, but if the Taliban think that they only need 5,000 fighters released and some more to be able to re-take the country, that is not going to happen. The US is heavily invested in that not happening.
The dialogue needs to begin, the points of difference need to be discussed and solutions and conccessions on both sides need to occur for peace to happen.
[Edited on 3/5/2020 by gina]
Regarding corrupt leaders.
It is NOT permissable to use force to oust a corrupt leader.
https://quraansunnah.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/corrupt-leaders-according-to-quran-and-sunnah/
f an Imam (leader) or Amir (ruler) becomes corrupt he should first be given a call to Islam (submission) in private, or possibly in public if his evil deeds were done in public. If he does not turn away from his evil deeds, he should be overthrown or removed from position. However, in the process of removing him from position, he should not be physically fought, such as waging war with weapons. This is because the ruler is still muslim, and the muslims are not to attack or kill another muslim. If, however, the Muslim leader or ruler completely abandons his salat, he nullifies his Islam and can be fought if necessary. (However, to prove this, it would take an Islamic court or similar situation in which the person could defend themselves against all accusations).
https://www.siasat.pk/forums/threads/corrupt-leaders-according-to-quran-and-sunnah.282912/
Therefore, if the ruler does not apply the Sharia properly, this is sinful but it does not justify a violent rebellion against them. Rather, the proper way to enjoin good and forbid evil regarding the rulers is through non-violent preaching, advising, and if necessary, acts of civil disobedience.
Ahmad ibn Hanbal said:
Changing evil with ones hand is not done with swords or weapons.
Source: Jami Ulum wal-Hikam
In the same way, Allah commanded Moses and Aaron, upon them be peace, to speak mildly to Pharaoh, even though Pharaoh was a great tyrant and not a Muslim.
Allah said:
Speak to him with gentle speech that perhaps he may be reminded or fear Allah.
Surah Ta Ha 20:44
If this is how Allah commanded them to speak to a great tyrant who was not a Muslim, then a Muslim ruler is even more deserving of better treatment. It may become necessary to be more vocal and forceful if the ruler is a stubborn oppressor. Speaking the truth to him in this case becomes a form of jihad.
Abu Saeed Al-Khudri reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
Verily, among the greatest of struggles is a word of justice in front of a tyrant.
Source: Sunan At-Tirmidhi 2174, Grade: Hasan
If the ruler commands the Muslims to commit sins, they should disobey him and not fulfill his command, but this should be done without violence. In other words, a Muslim should behave with civil disobedience.
Ali reported: The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said:
There is no obedience to the leader involving disobedience to Allah. Verily, obedience is only for good conduct.
Source: Sahih Bukhari 6830, Grade: Sahih
Therefore, a Muslim should attempt to reform the ruler and enjoin good without resorting to violence. Violence and terrorism leads to the fracturing of Muslim society, which is even worse than the oppression of the rulers. Instead, Muslims must be patient and wise in the face of such injustice, and they should pray for Allah to guide the rulers to right conduct.
Hadith – Sahih Muslim 4569, Narrated Umm Salamah, r.a.
The Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said: In the near future there will be Amirs (rulers) and you will like their good deeds and dislike their bad deeds. One who sees through their bad deeds (and tries to prevent their repetition by his hand or through his speech), is absolved from blame, but one who hates their bad deeds (in the heart of his heart, being unable to prevent their recurrence by his hand or his tongue), is (also) safe (so far as God”s wrath is concerned). But one who approves of their bad deeds and imitates them is spiritually ruined. People asked (the Prophet): Shouldn’t we fight against them? He replied: No, as long as they say their prayers.
REMARKS: There is no anarchy in Islam.
We learned nothing from Vietnam.
The Taliban are just bidding their time. Once our troops are gone the current Afghan govt is doomed.
That being said we had to abandon that dumpster fire at some point. Much like Vietnam it was an unwineable situation. It was time to cut bait.
[Edited on 3/6/2020 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 3/6/2020 by Bill_Graham]
The Taliban are a bunch of ignorant dickheads. Should have wasted every last one of them when we had the chance.
Well, that could've happened, but the means in which that happens is kinda frowned on now.
The Taliban are a bunch of ignorant dickheads. Should have wasted every last one of them when we had the chance.
Well the US did lend it's military support to ISIS while fighting against the Taliban, there, do you feel better now?
Afghanistan is a burial ground for dying empires, USA included. The primary reason we are over there (which the USA does not advertise) is to keep the Taliban away from Pakistans nuclear arsenal. Everything else is a distant second.
Afghan President Ghani has put forth a prisoner release plan to begin in four days, 100 prisoners per day released over 15 days as negotiations with the Taliban begin. Then 500 every two weeks till 5,000 are released. The prisoners must sign an agreement saying they will not return to the battlefield.
The prisoners must sign an agreement saying they will not return to the battlefield.
that's nice, their signature on paper goes how far when they decide to carry out an attack?
I want it to work, but it sounds crazy to think just because they sign a piece of paper that it means they will not engage in any violent acts.
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Don't forget giving them some $, as a signing bonus!
The prisoners must sign an agreement saying they will not return to the battlefield.
that's nice, their signature on paper goes how far when they decide to carry out an attack?
Well then...........we'll, we'll........just take them to court.
That'll learn 'em
