Yet most illegals still arrive via plane and overstay their visa. Should be build a ceiling?
That's a good one. Maybe use tracking devices.
Who are these scared little p*ssies that need a wall to feel better?
I feel pretty good now. I could feel pretty good if there was no border wall at all. I choose to care about this issue, just as I choose to care about any issue, because I think it is the right thing for the country.
The point of a wall or any physical barrier vs drones or sensors or any technology that gets used is a wall hopefully prevents entry. The technology can monitor them and alert us where they are and when they enter the country, but then we have to apprehend them and process them. By making crossing more difficult the end goal is that less people enter, fail in their attempts and less people try and come due to increased difficulty in coming.
Solutions follow:
indictment
impeachment
vote the clown out of office if he runs again
other solutions?
I, having faith in the judicial system, hope for indictment. Beyond that, there must be people far savvier than I in how to effect change addressing the issue. NOW. I don't think victims can wait until 2020.
I'm of an era when demonstrations & letters/phone calls (now emails/tweets) to elected representatives were effective. With all the communication technology available, I can't believe there isn't a way to get those w/clout in Washington to quit whispering privately & publicly denounce Trump. Can McConnell not see that he could be perceived as a hero if he grew a pair rather than acting as though he works for the prez? His job is to put passed legislation on the table & let the prez really take the fall in the form of veto & then go back & over-ride the veto. Instead, his position is that he's not going to even bring anything that could be vetoed to a vote.
The constitution is stronger than a single person. Congress doesn't work FOR the prez; it serves as a check on the resident of the WH.
I'm not sure how much those with clout in Washington listen to common people & voters. Once they get there, they seem to operate in a party vacuum. Look at the many protests in the last year such a marches for women, protests against Judge K., gun rallies after the school in Florida, etc. Legislators are numb to reality other than the ballot box.
Mitch is from Kentucky, a safe red sate. He can keep his seat until he chooses to leave. As far as his leadership position - he has abdicated the responsibility of his position probably out of frustration or fear of Trump & the 30 something % base. It appears Mitch is content to sit things out, give lip service, let Trump take the lead, and let the chips fall as they will. That is pathetic, but until the light bulb goes off with Mitch and others in the GOP that they fear ballot box fallout by being on the losing side of an issue, perceptions, and public relations nothing will change. This is Trump's party, and the real GOP is on sabbatical.
I'm not sure how much those with clout in Washington listen to common people & voters. Once they get there, they seem to operate in a party vacuum. Look at the many protests in the last year such a marches for women, protests against Judge K., gun rallies after the school in Florida, etc. Legislators are numb to reality other than the ballot box.
Mitch is from Kentucky, a safe red sate. He can keep his seat until he chooses to leave. As far as his leadership position - he has abdicated the responsibility of his position probably out of frustration or fear of Trump & the 30 something % base. It appears Mitch is content to sit things out, give lip service, let Trump take the lead, and let the chips fall as they will. That is pathetic, but until the light bulb goes off with Mitch and others in the GOP that they fear ballot box fallout by being on the losing side of an issue, perceptions, and public relations nothing will change. This is Trump's party, and the real GOP is on sabbatical.
Martin, I fear your assessment is accurate. Not only do leaders not care, but those of us non-politicians have become indifferent to anything beyond our own self-interest. Alternatively, we do care, but the failures of expression of dissatisfaction outside the ballot box you pointed out have deterred us from even trying. Those Parkland students who so sincerely believed in the power of their stories to influence change certainly learned that DC is nothing but deaf ears. Nobody really cares that attending school can get you killed. We've been immune to that since Columbine.
It IS pathetic that the GOP & our government have been hijacked by this nebulous "Trump base." I'm just gob-smacked that smug shrill ratings jockeys like Coulter seem to be running the country.
Legislators are numb to reality other than the ballot box.
Interesting comment in that "Reality" in Gubmint IS the Ballot box. We, have the power, we can change everything, but you must participate through Voting....
Look at the many protests in the last year such a marches for women, protests against Judge K., gun rallies after the school in Florida
How many of these people Voted?
Legislators are numb to reality other than the ballot box.
Interesting comment in that "Reality" in Gubmint IS the Ballot box. We, have the power, we can change everything, but you must participate through Voting....
Look at the many protests in the last year such a marches for women, protests against Judge K., gun rallies after the school in Florida
How many of these people Voted?
How many of these people voted? We'll never know the statistical count. What we can conclude is that either directly or indirectly they voted or had impact upon others voting, as the GOP lost 40 or so HOR seats. Trump said at many rallies that he was on the ballot. The disgust aimed at him was pretty much self fulfilling. The record number of midterm turnout in many states would indicate that this was more than just a normal cycle of expected results.
Momentum should remain consistent into the next election for senate, house, prez, and if Trump is on the ballot...well...you can fill in the blanks.
By making crossing more difficult the end goal is that less people enter, fail in their attempts and less people try and come due to increased difficulty in coming.
Understood. But $5billion to manage those who overstay their visas would probably have a much greater affect on that goal. Border crossers are a small percentage and typically work labor jobs that contribute to farming and small construction company owners. But we won’t hear from the sheep about how those business owners will get hurt from this emotional knee jerk reaction to his Obama Derangement Syndrome. Target the ones that don’t contribute, not the tough as nails ones that are willing to do anything for American small businesses. Trump’s idiotic plan will prevent those that we need from coming, and turn a blind eye to those that don’t contribute in any way.
Emotionally damaged souls that follow Trump don’t think of these things because they hate their lives and need a boogeyman to blame for it. Give Trump the $5billion for immigration if it means this much to the guy, but put it towards something that targets the right individuals, not some idiotic wall that keeps out the best workers.
Ya gotta luv Stern - onetime friend of the Orange Prez. Best line - "“I never saw him this orange or with those rings around his eyes”. See article below:
Howard Stern says Trump's border wall won't solve immigration problems: It’s just something ‘morons can get behind’
Suzy Byrne 1 hour 56 minutes ago
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Howard Stern had a lot to say about Donald Trump and his border wall. (Photo: Getty Images)
While Howard Stern “can’t find anything more boring” than having a political discussion, he broke his rule Wednesday to discuss Donald Trump’s immigration and border security address that was broadcast the night before.
The men go way back, and you may recall their conversations about “piece of a**” Ivanka on Stern’s show, so the King of All Media had many notes on Trump’s primetime performance — skip the teleprompter, work on the “heavy breathing” and stop with the spray tan (“I never saw him this orange or with those rings around his eyes”). But while Stern said he expected Trump’s speech to be “full of sh**,” it topped expectations.
After saying “there’s no crisis” at the U.S.-Mexico borders, Stern went on to talk about Trump’s proposed border wall — which is behind the ongoing partial government shutdown — saying it won’t solve any of the country’s immigration problems. He brushed it off as being just a campaign tactic that “morons can get behind.”
“The wall’s a problem because it’s a waste of money, even Donald knows that,” Stern said. “You gotta know Donald a bit to understand what’s going on here. The wall’s a simplistic answer to our problems with immigration. It’s something that, you know, morons can get behind because they’re like, ‘Oh, yeah, if you build a wall no one can get over it.’ But it’s not that simple.”
Stern said Trump’s demands of $5.7 billion in funding for the wall — a wall he originally said Mexico would pay for — wouldn’t even cover the cost of the proposed wall.
“You’re talking about building a massive wall across this country on the southern border,” Stern continued. “It’s a tremendous amount of property and a tremendous amount of area to cover. You’re not going to get a whole wall for $5 billion. If you really want a wall, it’s probably going to cost you some trillions of dollars.”
He said Trump isn’t being “straight up” with Americans. Stern said he should have come on and said, “‘F*** this, I’m not going to bullsh** you guys. I want $20 billion.”
While Stern admitted that he’s “all about keeping fing illegal aliens out because it’s fing not fair — it’s not fair to people who apply legally,” he added, “At the same point, you can’t be hypocritical and be hiring illegal aliens over at Mar-a-Lago,” referring to undocumented immigrants working at Trump’s golf resort in New Jersey.
Stern also talked about how drugs were coming “into our ports,” versus just from over the southern border. But he pointed out that Trump’s shutdown over not getting his wall is making security in the country even weaker.
“Right now we don’t even have air traffic controllers being paid,” Stern pointed out. “Talk about a lack of security. If I’m a terrorist, I’m coming in now. I bet you they’re flooding in while this government shutdown is going on.”
Donald Trump and Melania next to Howard Stern and Beth at a New York Knicks game in 2005. (Photo: Getty Images)
“Even Donald’s not into this wall. It’s just he’s embarrassed because he can’t get it, and Rush Limbaugh shamed him,” he said, adding, “The whole concept of the wall got him elected, a lot of people could wrap their brain around it. But the wall ain’t going to solve sh**. And it’s going to cost a fortune. Come on, it’s nonsense. It’s just nonsense.”
Stern said that Trump doesn’t consult him anymore though. “I got it figured out, but nobody talks to me. Donald doesn’t call me anymore because I didn’t vote for him.”
And lest you think Stern was only critical of Trump, he also also criticized Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer’s on-camera rebuttal to Trump’s address. Stern said they looked like “vampires” on-screen and “need media training.” He called their use of a teleprompter “a drag,” saying, “Just talk from the heart.” He said he hoped they watch their performance back and are “mortified” over it.
Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
Nocando - Trump taking orders from Coulter, Hannity, Ingraham, & pill popper Rush.
Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
Nocando - Trump taking orders from Coulter, Hannity, Ingraham, & pill popper Rush.
They'll fall in line. Especially Hannity. Whatever Trump does,, Hannity is all in, and the Trump fans wlll follow.
Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
Brilliant!!!!
Facts and the truth have never stopped him before from doing anything. Why not, indeed.
Say it, Donald, say your policies have made the country more prosperous, secure, bigger, better, & happier than it's ever been. You made it happen because you know more about everything than all the experts & take a delayed Christmas vacation to Florida.
Emotionally damaged souls that follow Trump don’t think of these things because they hate their lives and need a boogeyman to blame for it.
Too funny!.... The same to be said for the 10 or so clones here who repeatedly use every thread to spew their utter hatred for the President, we get it, you despise the man. The vitriol laid out here is double the level of pathetic that we witnessed by those who loathed President Obama and his policies. There are "emotionally damaged souls" on both sides of the fence who have equal disdain for their lives.......
What a guy he is. He's basically telling the people of real emergencies & disasters in Puerto Rico & California to go "f" yourselves so he can build his wall for his fabricated emergency that he promised Mexico would pay for.
That's today. Tomorrow will bring another chaotic issue by Putin's little bitch. Everyday it's something new with that clown.
Clown - or carny barker - he may be, but it's disgraceful that we - whatever political affiliation we may have - are not rising up against this man who is literally ruining the lives of human beings. He's passing out candy while federal workers & disaster victims suffer.
How is Trump ruining people's lives? He has been available to work on any deal/compromise bill/legislation that can be brought to him. His only sticking point is he must get funding for the wall/fence for the purpose of border security not because he wants to say he is right or kept his promise to do it.
Yes 880,000 are not getting paid, they have real problems, and I think the states and local communities could try to come up with something to help them with their bills during this terrible time, but that is only one part of the problem.
What about border security? Do we just back down and do nothing so the govt. shutdown can end and then the democratic led Congress tries to proceed with impeachment hearings?
Pelosi says it is "immoral" to build the wall.
How is it immoral to stop illegals from entering our country?
She should not advocate the caravan of 'dreamers' try to break the law and come in illegally, that is obstructing justice and interfering with interstate commerce since they cross state lines and go everyplace once they get here. She took an oath entering Congress to uphold the laws of this nation and then advocates illegals continue to come and calls Trump immoral.
And Chuck Shumer is her Candyman, egging her on, encouraging her unrealistic outlook.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by gina]
Does anybody here think that we DO NOT need a border wall for border security?
We DO NOT need a wall for border security.
How do we stop people from illegally crossing the border along all the miles of unmanned, unfenced, unprotected land?
"W's 2006 Secure Fence Act authorized a barrier across the border. Less than a year later, Congress recognized that technology could more securely, efficiently, and effectively serve the purpose of a physical barrier over varying topography & the Act was amended: no specific building material, no specific type of barrier (physical v electronic v TBD).
In sum, 17 years ago, Republicans acknowledged that requiring a physical barrier made of a specific material was an outdated concept & enacted legislation that said so. "
Thank you. Goob and Gina, please read the above quotation, and then sign to indicate that you did read it and did understand it.
I keep seeing strawman arguments here:
"Democrats are against border security."
No, they are against a wildly expensive WALL. There really are other kinds of border security.
"Democrats used to want a big concrete wall, but suddenly now they are just being anti-Trump."
No, they never wanted a big concrete wall, but they have always wanted border security.
I read it. "Congress recognized that technology could more securely, efficiently, and effectively serve the purpose of a physical barrier over varying topography & the Act was amended: no specific building material, no specific type of barrier (physical v electronic v TBD)."
What did Congress come up with? What were their ideas that were NOT implemented?
Were armed drones part of the concept?
Or satellite or heat sensor technology that can let planes know that people are in a certain area and then the blackhawk choppers can come and use whatever methodology they deem appropriate to stop the interlopers?
Or should we just send Joe Arpaio and his border buddies in their pick-ups to dissuade potential border breachers?
What technology/means can be used to deal with the problem WITHOUT a wall/fence?
Yes 880,000 are not getting paid, they have real problems, and I think the states and local communities could try to come up with something to help them with their bills during this terrible time, but that is only one part of the problem.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by gina]
Why should states and local communities pay for a self-inflicted and failed promise Trump made that Mexico would pay for the Trump wall, and now he sees that's not happening. All who drink from his cup have been bamboozled. How does it taste, Gina?
Drump said he'd own the shutdown...so your beef is with him. Why don't you contact the White House & let them know that he let you down.
He's dug quite a hole for himself and can't find a way out.
Chuck and Nsncy have been in Congress over 50 years. What have they done about the issue. Nothing. YOU should be ashsmed.
I've always noticed and even commented here a time or two, that most of the conservative's here in Good 'Ol Red Indiana, seem to be overly stimulated by fear, overreact to threats and just generally seem terrified of things? Now we have scientific and fact based evidence to explain why this phenomenon exists........Peace.........joe
There are "emotionally damaged souls" on both sides of the fence who have equal disdain for their lives.......
No kidding. I posted about Trump Derangement Syndrome just a day or two ago. What is your point Mr. Defensive?
Here is the part I don't get. Illegal crossings are down already - way down, and have been going down for over a decade. There are over 1 million fewer illegals living in the US today than in 2007. So why is this a crisis right now? Why doesn't Trump just declare victory that is policies have been working, take credit, and move on? Trend lines haven't kept him from taking credit for the economy, so why isn't he just declaring victory for the drop in illegal immigration and moving on?
You are right, that illegal alien apprehensions are down from their historic peak. However, it is also true that the trend line is increasing now. Apprehensions bottomed to under 20,000 per month in the spring of 2017; since then the numbers have been steadily climbing as high as 3x.
In this chart you can see the recent history trend lines and also where FY2019 has started:
Ironically, CBP website is not updated due to the shutdown, but DHS has the December apprehensions/ inadmissibles for FY2019 were 60,782 marking the third straight month exceeding 60,000. Inadmissibles are those turned away at ports of entry, which average about 10,000 a month. This makes the captures between ports roughly 50,000 each month so far this FY, and that makes the third straight month of apprehensions over 50k.
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/01/09/dhs-releases-southwest-border-enforcement-statistics
So illegal crossing apprehensions are climbing, and you will also see in the DHS link that family unit apprehensions for the first three months of FY19 are up 280% over the same time frame of FY2018.
Regarding the total numbers of illegals living in the US, you are correct in that according to Pew, the number has dropped from 1 million to maybe even as high has 2 million lower than 2007.
Although, there have been others suggesting the illegal alien population in the US considerably higher, such as an MIT-Yale study resulting in 16 to 29 million with 22.1 being their average - double the commonly referenced 11 million from polling data. Moral of the story, it is difficult to estimate the total number and there could be many more than is typically assumed.
I would submit that this has always been a crisis. And the reality is, it always will be a crisis.
By making crossing more difficult the end goal is that less people enter, fail in their attempts and less people try and come due to increased difficulty in coming.
Understood. But $5billion to manage those who overstay their visas would probably have a much greater affect on that goal. Border crossers are a small percentage and typically work labor jobs that contribute to farming and small construction company owners. But we won’t hear from the sheep about how those business owners will get hurt from this emotional knee jerk reaction to his Obama Derangement Syndrome. Target the ones that don’t contribute, not the tough as nails ones that are willing to do anything for American small businesses. Trump’s idiotic plan will prevent those that we need from coming, and turn a blind eye to those that don’t contribute in any way.
Emotionally damaged souls that follow Trump don’t think of these things because they hate their lives and need a boogeyman to blame for it. Give Trump the $5billion for immigration if it means this much to the guy, but put it towards something that targets the right individuals, not some idiotic wall that keeps out the best workers.
I would be ok with directing focus and efforts to VISA overstays instead of the wall. I would be ok with directing and focusing efforts to "round up" employers who have hired illegal workers instead of the wall.
Illegal immigration should not be any kind of solution to the needs and wants of farms or business.
You can talk about sheep and damaged souls or people with derangement syndrome, but that is all nonsense. Just because we are not in a position of authority and decision making and just because we type out our feelings on an unrelated internet message board doesn't mean we can't acknowledge that sometimes, people that disagree with us have good points and suggestions and raise our objections and assertions in a constructive manner.
The trolls just bring us all down, but we can ignore and rise above that and maintain constructive discourse - if we want to.
The trolls just bring us all down, but we can ignore and rise above that and maintain constructive discourse - if we want to.
We certainly can. We could ignore them rather than respond. There's no engaging w/trolls. If they're asked to clarify a point, they either run or respond w/more off-topic gibberish. It's futile, although apparently some of us find it amusing to play w/trolls.
We even have trolls on the very thread designed to ask us to be civil. That makes zero sense. Why disrupt an administrative request from Rowland?
There are "emotionally damaged souls" on both sides of the fence who have equal disdain for their lives.......
No kidding. I posted about Trump Derangement Syndrome just a day or two ago. What is your point Mr. Defensive?
My point Mr. Leftist?....is that fictitious labels like "derangement Syndrome" are not strictly limited to one Party or person.....
My point Mr. Leftist?....
Notice how I focus on your specific defensive post, but you attack the political affiliation. Deplorable bigot.
is that fictitious labels like "derangement Syndrome" are not strictly limited to one Party or person....
No kidding, I just posted this the other day. Thanks genius.
My point Mr. Leftist?....
Notice how I focus on your specific defensive post, but you attack the political affiliation. Deplorable bigot.
is that fictitious labels like "derangement Syndrome" are not strictly limited to one Party or person....
No kidding, I just posted this the other day. Thanks genius.
I'm guessing this is the high point of your day!
lol
Yes 880,000 are not getting paid, they have real problems, and I think the states and local communities could try to come up with something to help them with their bills during this terrible time, but that is only one part of the problem.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by gina]Why should states and local communities pay for a self-inflicted and failed promise Trump made that Mexico would pay for the Trump wall, and now he sees that's not happening. All who drink from his cup have been bamboozled. How does it taste, Gina?
Drump said he'd own the shutdown...so your beef is with him. Why don't you contact the White House & let them know that he let you down.
He's dug quite a hole for himself and can't find a way out.
At this point I don't think it is about campaign promises. if he gets his wall, sure when 2020 comes around he can say that is one of his accomplishments, but the greater issue remains border security, though the Democrats wants to dig their heels in and say, no we won't give you the wall because you want it. They know we need border security but have not countered his wall concept with any other ideas to secure the border, maybe because they know we need it.
As to who pays for it, if he cannot get Mexico to pay for it, then logically we as a nation must find another way to get it done otherwise the impasse continues, federal workers continue to not be paid and things will get worse and very ugly, that outcome benefits nobody.
Yes 880,000 are not getting paid, they have real problems, and I think the states and local communities could try to come up with something to help them with their bills during this terrible time, but that is only one part of the problem.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by gina]Why should states and local communities pay for a self-inflicted and failed promise Trump made that Mexico would pay for the Trump wall, and now he sees that's not happening. All who drink from his cup have been bamboozled. How does it taste, Gina?
Drump said he'd own the shutdown...so your beef is with him. Why don't you contact the White House & let them know that he let you down.
He's dug quite a hole for himself and can't find a way out.
At this point I don't think it is about campaign promises. if he gets his wall, sure when 2020 comes around he can say that is one of his accomplishments, but the greater issue remains border security, though the Democrats wants to dig their heels in and say, no we won't give you the wall because you want it. They know we need border security but have not countered his wall concept with any other ideas to secure the border, maybe because they know we need it.
As to who pays for it, if he cannot get Mexico to pay for it, then logically we as a nation must find another way to get it done otherwise the impasse continues, federal workers continue to not be paid and things will get worse and very ugly, that outcome benefits nobody.
Wrong! It is about his campaign promise. He had millions of people in a state of delusion by campaigning on a promise of Mexico paying for a wall. How foolish of anyone to have believed such a non-starter. If his words mean nothing & are devoid of reality, then why is the default the American taxpayer to cover for his failure?
You are incorrect that "logically we as a nation must find another way to get it done". Trump created this fiction. He needs to figure a way out of the hole he dug w/out taking the country down with him. Any foolish people that want to go down his rabbit hole with him are welcome to follow him into fantasy land.
The Dems and the American people have spoken in the midterms & rejected his immigration policies and rhetoric. He campaigned during the midterms on immigration fears while the Dems made health care #1 issue. In the midterms, he was defeated resoundingly. The message has been delivered. He has backed himself into a corner and sees no way of getting himself out. The Dems are all for border security in practical ways; not just his ever changing wall - concrete to steel, etc. If you want to give him a contribution for his wall, feel free.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by MartinD28]
Yes it was a campaign promise, but we all know things change and evolve. If he cannot get Mexico to fund it 100% should he give up on the idea of building a wall?
You are correct that there are differences in the priorities of the Democrats and the Republicans, and that is another problem stalling resolution.
Another poll, conducted by NPR, PBS and Marist from November to December, found that 63% of Republicans believed building the wall was an "immediate priority".
Health care is a big problem, nobody disputes that, but right now he, as President wants to focus on border security and the wall. Since he is the man in the big chair, doesn't he get to call the shots and decide what is most important, he is after all the President, which is the one in charge of leading the nation.
Here are some interesting things from his old book and how they can pertain to the wall.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46822452
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by gina]
Since he is the man in the big chair, doesn't he get to call the shots and decide what is most important, he is after all the President, which is the one in charge of leading the nation.
No, the Constitution defines three equal branches of government. It is a system of checks and balances. The president doesn't always get what he wants. Our founding fathers were wise not to give absolute power to the president.
Since he is the man in the big chair, doesn't he get to call the shots and decide what is most important, he is after all the President, which is the one in charge of leading the nation.
No, the Constitution defines three equal branches of government. It is a system of checks and balances. The president doesn't always get what he wants. Our founding fathers were wise not to give absolute power to the president.
That's the scariest thing about Trump and some of his supporters....They, like him, seem oblivious and, frankly, ignorant as to how the American republic works.
[Edited on 1/12/2019 by Chain]
