He praises Putin & himself by association because he know Putin "very, very well." Never mind, all former Presidents Carter, Clinton, Bush, & Obama have condemned the invasion.
Trump is so delusional, narcissistic, & just plain crazy, I wouldn't be surprised if an Ukrainian-American shot him. In the meantime, I wish he'd be put in jail for some crime - anything - w/no access to spread his toxicity. I get why the NY ADA dropped the real estate case - most likely, Trump didn't do anything that every single other real estate developer in NYC & every single financial institution expects to see on a developer's financial statements - property values to suit the purpose of the moment. But surely, he'd done something criminal enough to put him behind bars. Beyond that, he needs a 72-hour hold in a psych hospital. He IS a danger to himself & others (his many acolytes & followers) now when he's undermining the US position on a war. I can't think of any other time in history when a former US President ignored US policy & praised the aggressor.
It's unprecedented, but unfortunately not surprising. Trump's narcissism and love affair with powerful men was always a huge liability in foreign politics, now he's wading close to treason (again). He has no idea how dangerous the game he's playing is to this country and so many others.
What's even more frightening is his cult is still along for the ride. The same people who'd cut off their arm rather than be associated with socialism are nodding to Trump's praise of a Russian dictator. Let that sink in. If you hop on Fox News, you'd think Biden invited Russia in, even though Trump has been Team Putin for years. I haven't heard one person say what should have been done differently domestically, it's just an opportunity to point the finger at Biden and create discord. The rhetoric simply destabilizes.
Never mind Trump - he's not the story. The invasion is really sad and incredibly concerning. Will this aggression stand? I can't imagine Putin going into a neighboring NATO country.
I'm going to pose this question again. What would it take for an American citizen to bring the Mrs Universe pageant to Russia. Who would he have to pay or what would he have to do and for how long. We all know Russia is a mafia state...so what did Trump have to pay or do to get access and a pageant? Why would he not have it here in the US.
Putin wants to bring back the USSR as he knew it. Another delusional grasp at the past. He probably signed his own end with this...it'll just take some time...
It's unprecedented, but unfortunately not surprising. Trump's narcissism and love affair with powerful men was always a huge liability in foreign politics, now he's wading close to treason (again). He has no idea how dangerous the game he's playing is to this country and so many others.
What's even more frightening is his cult is still along for the ride. The same people who'd cut off their arm rather than be associated with socialism are nodding to Trump's praise of a Russian dictator. Let that sink in. If you hop on Fox News, you'd think Biden invited Russia in, even though Trump has been Team Putin for years. I haven't heard one person say what should have been done differently domestically, it's just an opportunity to point the finger at Biden and create discord. The rhetoric simply destabilizes.
Never mind Trump - he's not the story. The invasion is really sad and incredibly concerning. Will this aggression stand? I can't imagine Putin going into a neighboring NATO country.
Sorry, but I can't discount Trump's influence on 2022 voters. He thinks Putin's a genius; his followers think Putin's a genius.
What are you talking about? Trump & later Trump/NBC owned Miss Universe, Miss USA, Miss Teen USA until 2014 or so. They're enormous money losers except for TV ad revenue. Mrs. America is a coalition of state pageants w/an annual (sort of) pageant at a hotel in Las Vegas.
We're talking war & you're talking about beauty pageants.
Sorry, but I can't discount Trump's influence on 2022 voters. He thinks Putin's a genius; his followers think Putin's a genius.
For sure, yeah. Did you think I did discount it?
What are you talking about? Trump & later Trump/NBC owned Miss Universe, Miss USA, Miss Teen USA until 2014 or so. They're enormous money losers except for TV ad revenue. Mrs. America is a coalotion of state pageants w/an annual (sort of) pageant at a hotel in Las Vegas.
We're talking war & you're talking about beauty pageants.
No I'm talking about what Trump had to do to get that pageant into Russia...was part of the deal to help him both win an election to destroy NATO and work to bring the US into an authoritarian state in line with Russia's interests?
Nothing. Marmel owned Mrs. America not Trump. At the time (2015), Trump was in litigation w/Univision over Spanish TV rights to Miss Universe because of his negative comments re undocumented immigrants at the beginning of his presidential campaign - the settlement was Trump had to buy NBC out; 3 days later Trump himself got out by selling to IMG. He hasn't been involved in pageants since 2015.
Yeah, you said Trump wasn't the story. I started the thread about Trump's toxic comments that will filter down to his supporters & affect their position. Germany & France have done more to mitigate damage than the US might be able to w/Trump bloviating away.
Nothing. Marmel owned Mrs. America not Trump. At the time (2015), Trump was in litigation w/Univision over Spanish TV rights to Miss Universe because of his negative comments re undocumented immigrants at the beginning of his presidential campaign - the settlement was Trump had to buy NBC out; 3 days later Trump himself got out by selling to IMG. He hasn't been involved in pageants since 2015.
In 2013 the ms universe pageant was held in Moscow. Who did Trump meet with to bring it there
who did he have to pay
what did he have to agree to
i’m thinking you didn’t know ms universe was in Russia in 2013
i’m not talking about the ms America or the business entity
Here's an NPR article about this
Yeah, you said Trump wasn't the story. I started the thread about Trump's toxic comments that will filter down to his supporters & affect their position. Germany & France have done more to mitigate damage than the US might be able to w/Trump bloviating away.
Sorry but a European country invading another one to depose its government for the first time in decades is the lede here, not a former head of state's thoughtless response. It's not good, but my point is that Trump is not the headline in this story, not relative to what is happening.
You're correct. I misread your post as Mrs. America instead of Miss Universe. Mrs. America (owned by an American) was invited to "Russia" - actually Ukraine in 2015 - which I thought was your point. Trump's being doing business w/Russia for decades - it's how he gets financing. Oligarchs don't need Trump; he needs them because no other American or European Bank (aside from Deutsch Bank) would lend him money. He is so indebted to them, he does everything the oligarchs ask. And, in banking circles, it's not really an ask; it's an offer he can't refuse. Apologies for the confusion.
Well, I guess you should create another thread :).
I was so angry when I heard what that despicable idiot said, I focused on that because it affects HIS still loyal voters. As of yesterday, there was something like 25% of Americans who didn't think it affected the US & 20% who didn't know what happened. That will translate to votes & a US response.
This is exactly what happened when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. No one believed he would do it & he did. No one thought Hitler would invade the UK except Churchill. Had Churchill not acted (along w/civilians w/boats), the German Halt Order wouldn't have been made. The US has become so divided - all because they believe that imbecile - they'll do anything he says (see Jan. 6).
You're correct. I misread your post as Mrs. America instead of Miss Universe. Mrs. America (owned by an American) was invited to "Russia" - actually Ukraine in 2015 - which I thought was your point. Trump's being doing business w/Russia for decades - it's how he gets financing. Oligarchs don't need Trump; he needs them because no other American or European Bank (aside from Deutsch Bank) would lend him money. He is so indebted to them, he does everything the oligarchs ask. And, in banking circles, it's not really an ask; it's an offer he can't refuse. Apologies for the confusion.
No problem. Trump has had a fascination with Russia for a long time. My point was because Russia is a mafia state then what agreements were made for an American citizen to bring that pageant to Moscow? and why there when he's an American citizen? Why not his home town of NYC the hub of the world?
I'm not pointing at the pageant. I'm pointing at what it takes for an American to run any kind of event in Russia? What really was his purpose?
Well, I guess you should create another thread :).
I was so angry when I heard what that despicable idiot said, I focused on that because it affects HIS still loyal voters. As of yesterday, there was something like 25% of Americans who didn't think it affected the US & 20% who didn't know what happened. That will translate to votes & a US response.
This is exactly what happened when Hitler invaded Poland in 1939. No one believed he would do it & he did. No one thought Hitler would invade the UK except Churchill. Had Churchill not acted (along w/civilians w/boats), the German Halt Order wouldn't have been made. The US has become so divided - all because they believe that imbecile - they'll do anything he says (see Jan. 6).
Gotcha, yeah, I wrote as much so I wasn't sure what you were "sorry" about 😉
Like I said, it's despicable the way some are politicizing this as a misstep on Biden's part when Putin is the aggressor and whom we should be unified against. Cultists like Stefanik shouldn't be using this as an opportunity to promote the midterm elections. This is bigger than that.
American businesses, investors, & companies do business all the time w/Russia - Boeing, Big Pharma, Ford, GM, Pepsi, & GE & retailers have brick/mortar stores.
As for why Trump goes, he has been deep in debt to Russia for 3 decades. He does whatever they say.
It comes down to semantics & basic decorum. Yes, the story is Putin. My anger was directed at Trump - a former US prez - who is praising Putin as a "genius." (I don't know what he's said about Biden if anything). Condemnation from 4 of 5 living US prez shows the world & US voters this is bad. Unanimity would've been best. FDR's predecessors were all deceased so Hoover or Coolidge couldn't tout Hitler as a genius w/an eye toward helping the Republican nominee v. FDR's next election. For the life of me, I don't know why crimes of insurrection, treason, sedition, or even perjury can't be brought against Trump w/no bail so he can talk all he wants but in a cell where no one hears him.
Trump broke the mold on what it was to be President of the United States, how about everyone else breaks a mold too? Stop reporting what the guy says, who cares!? He was the President -he is not now. Can't remember when I cared what a Bush or Clinton or Obama said about current policy, because they don't control policy now. Matters a lot more what the current President says...something like "No one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening" seems to mean more than what a former President says about a foreign leader.
What does it mean for future elections? Voters will have to figure out what it means to them or if it even means anything come election time.
Russia wants Ukraine, they are going to get it. What is anyone going to do about it? China wants Taiwan, will they get it, what should anyone do about it?
The leaders of these nations have their own ambitions and dreams. Do I want these things to happen? No. But they happen.
Trump likes Putin better than Biden, this comes as no surprise.
@nebish I totally agree that Trump shouldn't be the lede in the story of unprovoked European invasions. It's an historic moment of great consequence and he doesn't know what he's talking about. But he is still talking, people are still reporting it, and there are people who are still eager to listen.
To be fair, no one cared what former Presidents said in the past because they declined to comment on current Presidents. Trump opened up a Padnora's Box as President, he does whatever, and now each side will claim the current guy is "unfit" after every little spat.
Now there are a lot of people who can't think for themselves and look to Trump to tell them, and he's happy to. He doesn't shut up. It's not great for this country, or others. It's a very big ship to turn around. Even once Trump dies, people will study his playbook of passive aggression and straw men arguments. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
His continued presence me pretty sure the CIA didn't kill JFK.
On your last statement, yes, as much of a liability as Trump was or is, somebody somehow would off him in the conspiracy realm.
I get that now Putin and Russian media can use that genius and savvy quote to control their own narratives - and to that point, maybe that is where the biggest impact lies. Sheep in the US who don't think for themselves, I don't think it really matters does it really? People are free to believe what they want, we can't control what people believe and I don't think about trying or caring either.
Russian civilians as far as I can tell and obviously Ukrainian civilians don't want this war. A former American President kissing the Russian President's ass is really going to have that much sway with their population? A certain percentage of the left and right population in this country is already gone one way or the other, don't really think it matters what Trump says anymore.
Really, it's predictable what Trump will say. Let's say next shoe to drop is China vs Taiwan.
"It's genius really what President Xi is doing, but listen, listen to me, when we where there, this would never happen. Never happen. I know Xi very well, very well, listen - what they are doing, of course they would do it, because I'm not there. No. Xi and I are very good friends, but not so good friends this would happen. Excuse me. Listen, he is a great leader, but no - Taiwan and China if I were there, no. Now, of course. It's brilliant"
Like I read it in the news right from Trump's mouth.
Killing Trump would make him a martyr to his disciples - that 40-45% of voters who believe him or give them an excuse for their own racist, misogynist, conspiracy agendas.
When former US presidents speak collectively, it sends a message to the world diplomatic community if no one else. It matters. Now, Trump is Russian propaganda.
Trump didn't break the mold; he just threw tantrums. No reason for the rest of the reasonable world & basic principles of democracy to be tossed away.
I'm out.
Funny thing (or scary) is I wasn't surprised at all. It's the former president after all.
Let the USA and Europe keep buying energy from Russia or continue access to international banking. That will show Putin who he is messing with. Can't close that revenue stream for all of our corrupt politicians in DC. (LOL)
Trump is gone folks. Who gives a crap what he says? Was it honest? Was he trolling? Doesn't matter, another person is in office and setting policy.
@nebish I'm never really surprised by what Trump says, honestly I've been able to ignore it and not hear any of it for the past year. It's been nice. I am still surprised by the number of people who do still care what he says.
Putin has had his way with a number of US administrations and regional or global alliances have yet to deter him...Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine... One could call him savvy if they want in light of all of that, he can be called a lot of different things.
The things with the adversarial nations, do not do business with them! None, period. Don't buy their exports. The US should not be buying Chinese goods or Russian energy just as we shouldn't be buying oil from other counties that are hostile or not aligned with US policy. And Europe should not, should never have been buying Russian energy. You only make your enemies stronger and yourself weaker by doing so - the exact opposite of genius, but our governments continually let us down time and time and time again, so here we are.
Putin has had his way with a number of US administrations and regional or global alliances have yet to deter him...Georgia, Crimea, Ukraine... One could call him savvy if they want in light of all of that, he can be called a lot of different things.
The things with the adversarial nations, do not do business with them! None, period. Don't buy their exports. The US should not be buying Chinese goods or Russian energy just as we shouldn't be buying oil from other counties that are hostile or not aligned with US policy. And Europe should not, should never have been buying Russian energy. You only make your enemies stronger and yourself weaker by doing so - the exact opposite of genius, but our governments continually let us down time and time and time again, so here we are.
Easy to say nebish but you have to get energy from somewhere and unfortunately it is the bad actors like Russia, Middle Eastern countries, Venezuela etc that own the majority of the energy and strategic mineral reserves so there are not many choices.
Some countries in Europe are progressive about green energy while in the US the Republicans are fighting green energy initiatives and are owned by big oil.
Regarding buying Chinese made goods the genie is out of the bottle as America is addicted to cheap goods and many are not be willing to take the pain having to go without or pay more for products. Just my opinion YMMV.
Easy to say nebish but you have to get energy from somewhere and unfortunately it is the bad actors like Russia, Middle Eastern countries, Venezuela etc that own the majority of the energy and strategic mineral reserves so there are not many choices.
Some countries in Europe are progressive about green energy while in the US the Republicans are fighting green energy initiatives and are owned by big oil.
Regarding buying Chinese made goods the genie is out of the bottle as America is addicted to cheap goods and many are not be willing to take the pain having to go without or pay more for products. Just my opinion YMMV.
Iran exports oil, the Unites States does not buy Iranian oil. Cut out the nations the US does not want to import oil from and offset it with increased domestic production, more imports from friendlier nations, or decreased consumption. That would be wise policy.
As for cheap goods, China is not the only source for cheap goods, there is a whole list of countries that can produce low cost products that are not named China. Shifting the supply chain to a basket of countries rather than over-reliance on an adversary would be wise policy.
Less money flowing to bad actors and bad nations...simple? Common sense I think.
If only it was so simple. Iranian oil imports to the US were a spit in the ocean so it was easy to replace. You know who we get the most oil from? Russia
21% of our oil/gas comes from Russia. Not so easy to just replace from other sources.
As far as replacing China for others products again it is not as simple as buying from others countries if the products are not made there.
People in the US are already bitching about prices and blaming Biden so do you think the majority are willing to make the sacrifice and pay higher prices to do the right thing?
Common sense doesn't equal reality
If only it was so simple. Iranian oil imports to the US were a spit in the ocean so it was easy to replace. You know who we get the most oil from? Russia
21% of our oil/gas comes from Russia. Not so easy to just replace from other sources.
As far as replacing China for others products again it is not as simple as buying from others countries if the products are not made there.
People in the US are already bitching about prices and blaming Biden so do you think the majority are willing to make the sacrifice and pay higher prices to do the right thing?
Common sense doesn't equal reality
The Forbes story and the 21% figure is refined petroleum and gasoline. The US actually imports very little gasoline compared to what we consume and export. For instance, the Forbes story tells us that the US exported 6x the refined gas and petrolium products than we imported from Russia. So then, it actually is quite simple...export less and cut out Russian imports of refined products and use the fewer exports to satisfy what we were importing from Russia.
"Nearly all of the gasoline sold in the United States is produced in the United States." - From the US Energy Information Administration. We do not need Russian gasoline and refined products!
Do you know who we get the most oil from? It is not Russia. Not even close. It is Canada. Over 4million brls per day in 2020. Canada dwarfs the imports of the other top countries, no other country is more than 1 million brls per day, Mexico was #2 and essentially Russia and Saudi Arabia are tied.
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/pet_move_impcus_a2_nus_ep00_im0_mbblpd_a.htm
In 2000 we barely imported any oil at all from Russia, 20 years later they are the #3 or #4 source. If they were not a player then, they do not have to be a player now. There are other sources, including our own sources.
