As much as I hate to say it, and I never thought I would, I think Joe Biden should drop out of the race. I'm a staunch Democrat and about as anti-Trump as anyone. You can say "the debate was just one night", "Biden had an off night". Fine. But in the week since the debate, I have watched Biden call Zelensky, Putin and call Kamala Harris, Trump. I've seen enough. When you consider that Biden will be 85 by the time his next term would end.......well, that's a scary concept. Personally I would be 100% behind Kamala Harris. I think she's every bit smart enough and tough enough to do the job. I hope the obvious prejudice out there against a female holding the highest office in the land would not impede her. But whoever they choose.........this decision needs to be made VERY soon. The Democratic Convention begins August 19, barely over a month from now. The thought of Trump back in power scares the living HELL out of me.........
The biggest concern for me is not that Joe had a bad debate or a single bad night - but how many bad days he might have over the next 4 years. Yeah, he could hand the keys over to Kamala immediately following the inauguration. But does HE have a better chance than Harris at beating Trump? The entire Democrat Party has led us into a precarious situation here.
I've been reading lately about James Stockdale. Some of you may remember the Admiral for being the first man in - last man out in Vietnam. Others might remember his performance in the Vice Presidential debate (Perot) - which really made Biden look alright in his deer-in-the-headlights moment. As with Joe - James got tagged and remembered for a single bad night out. Sadly - for good or bad - politicians rarely recover from moments like these.
Joe's (Kamala's/Democrat's) best hope just might be party politics. Remember when Donny said he could shoot somebody in the face and get away with it - because his supporters wouldn't give a flyin' monkey's poop? Well, the ANYBODY BUT TRUMP crowd (including yours truly) are willing to vote for anything with a pulse that ain't Donald Trump. From a more mature perspective - we vote for the policies and agenda over the candidate. I hope we do.
The biggest concern for me is not that Joe had a bad debate or a single bad night - but how many bad days he might have over the next 4 years.
This. The debates aren't about issues, they're about appearance. It's a dog and pony show. A weak performance was one of the worst things that could have happened to Biden's campaign because debating Trump's lies and record is child's play.
Maybe Biden can finish strong, but the debate wasn't an isolated incident and we have all seen how quickly a person can fade in only 4 years. That is what is going to be on voters' minds and provide fodder for campaign ads for the next 4 months. If the DNC doesn't change course before the convention, it'll be Biden on the ticket. I said before, Biden was the right candidate for 2020, but I always worried about 2024, and now here we are. I thought maybe the party would have started to spot light some of its younger members or, at the very least, not send Kamala Harris to Siberia. I never understood why the administration didn't spotlight her more in anticipation of something like this.
Another Trump administration would be a disaster, and most of what he wants to do is out of shear spite. The GOP has been kidnapped by extremists - there's a long list of infractions that, on their own, would have forced any other candidate out of the race in disgrace (remember Gary Hart? John Edwards? Al Franken?) but Trump's supporters rationalize everything up to and including minor treason. Even a shaky Biden is infinitely more capable than Trump. Biden's administration has been mostly successful and stable, which is a mercy after 4 years of chaos.
I have no say in the matter until November, so I'm just trying not to worry about it too much.
@porkchopbob Trump was just shot in Butler, Pennsylvania. I was watching NBC Nightly News with Lester Holt when they switched to the rally. Sounded like 6 or more shots and Trump was taken away with blood on the right side of his face. But he is still alive and apparently was shot in his right ear.
I've been worried with so much hatred and division between Biden and Trump supporters that someone crazy would do this to one or the other.
robertdee/porkchopbob, any updates? - seems like conflicting information out there
@stephen Yes shooter was 20 year old Thomas Matthew Crooks. Crooks was on the roof of a building outside the rally perimeter. He was shot to death by the Secret Service.
One man in the Trump audience was killed and two others in the Trump crowd were shot and are in critical condition.
Trump was lucky. One bullet graze his head on the right side and cut his right ear. Trump was removed from the stage with blood running down his right cheek by the Secret Service.
Some social media outlets are claiming the Biden/Harris administration is responsible.
But just as many even today believe President Kennedy was assassinated by President Johnson and the CIA, that is nutty to me.
I predict it will be another lone nut operating independently.
First of all, I am saddened that Trump got shot. I value human life - I hate human suffering at any level and I don't want anybody to get shot/murdered/killed/assassinated - period.
Trump's non-stop rhetoric has caused me to be concerned. My initial fear was over the actions of his (fringe?) followers. The actions and events that transpired on January 6, 2021 brought my fears to fruition. My concern and fear for Donald Trump has been that a fringe element from the other side might take it upon his/herself to permanently quieten the former President.
If you watch the video you'll see that Trump turned his head about 4 degrees to his left just before the bullet hit his right ear. It makes me wonder if that sniper had his (Trump's) head in the crosshairs as he pulled the trigger. Trump just came within centimeters of being JFK. Maybe he and the Republican Party will give consideration to firearm restrictions and limits? When pigs fly!
I never voiced my fears over an attempt on Trump's life. I don't know if the Secret Service frequents the HTN site or not, but I don't want them considering me a "person of interest"! My fear now is over a retaliatory attempt on Biden by one of Trump's minions.
I always misquote the Hunter S. Thompson line from "Fear and Loathing". Something like, "there was no turning back - we were in Bat Country!". And that's where the political climate of the past 12 years has led us: deep in the heart of Batshit Crazyland.
Sick, sick stuff.
robertdee, yeah that’s the way it looks - like it was just that lone creep
using a rifle too - how could anyone tote a rifle around at a political rally - they shot him dead but it was still too late
one man dead, 2 critical, a close call for Trump - it’s terrible
when will civility ever prevail over heated hateful rhetoric in politics
it’s been said here on the boards that some media publish/broadcast things Specifically To Enrage, Not Inform
this imho could well-be a byproduct/outcome of that
Staunch Democrat that I am, I condemn this cruel and idiotic act of violence. Think about it.........Biden could be next. My first question is...........HOW in HELL did a guy in camouflage, toting a rifle, position himself outside the rally, un-encumbered by Secret Service???
That being said, Biden crawled his way back into my support just a bit on Friday. I watched his speech at a rally in Michigan. It was powerful, and he touched on many, many great points, including the dangers that Trump poses to America. I just wish he could do that well at a podium up against a verbally abusive redheaded jerk. Hopefully the second debate will go better. Still..........Rusty made a great point......"how many bad days he might have over the next 4 years." Exactly what scares me.
There it is - w/malice toward none, another Trump term “scares the hell out of me” says one poster, while another 4 years of Biden “is exactly what scares me” b/c of his age, as mentioned above
remark, no need for fright imho - the two candidates, both fine Americans, are overripe but not dangerous imho
the possibility of a retaliatory revenge shooting on Biden by Trump minions has been mentioned - let us pray as Americans on this Sunday morning that cooler heads prevail
….great to hear about Biden’s tremendous speech
🇺🇸⚾️🚴🇺🇸
... using a rifle too - how could anyone tote a rifle around at a political rally -...
You know - OPEN CARRY laws - a rallying cry of Conservative Republicans everywhere!
In Florida they have open carry, open container and stand your ground laws. You can walk around $hitfaced with a gun and shoot anybody who gives you a hard time about it! 😉
CNN published the transcript of what was said at the podium by Secret Service and by Trump immediately following the assassination attempt. Not to make too much light too soon - but Trump seemed to be more concerned with the whereabouts of his shoes than in the fact that he had just been sniped upon. Was he wearing those $400 Gold Trump High tops?
https://www.cnn.com/2024/07/14/politics/what-was-said-on-stage-after-trump-was-shot/index.html
Damn - that’s insane Rusty - the crime rate there must be off the charts bro (have no idea) - AOK to walk around packed & loaded w/bullets & booze
but yes, all Americans deplore this shooting & gun violence, political & otherwise
We don't know enough about the shooter to know what motivated the attempt. He was 20, that's young, impressionable. Presidential assassins don't have a great mental health track record.
This isn't the media's fault to criticizing Trump, he's a controversial candidate who put himself in the public eye. This is the fault of one guy who made an awful decision, for reasons we don't yet know. We can disagree with awful people, but their ideas don't go away just because they do.
I feel terrible for the people in the crowd.
It’s just what I mean porkchopbob - a young impressionable mind who believed all the garbage of Trump as an evil/illegal psychopath, pathological liar etc…..
became delusional & decided in his own bent mind that he had to act based on that as a responsible American
wouldnt surprise me in the slightest but agree that we’ll probably never know either
As Rusty said, sick, sick stuff
It’s just what I mean porkchopbob - a young impressionable mind who believed all the garbage of Trump as an evil/illegal psychopath, pathological liar etc…..
became delusional & decided in his own bent mind that he had to act based on that as a responsible American
wouldnt surprise me in the slightest but agree that we’ll probably never know either
That's just conjecture at the moment. Even if that's the case, it's irresponsible to guess before we know. And I'm sure we will know, no 20 year-old lives in a vacuum. Regardless, it doesn't magically mean Trump isn't a pathological liar or committed illegal acts.
But just like a lot of middle-aged impressionable people stormed the capitol a few years ago leading to several deaths, people are still responsible for their own actions.
I think the whole country needs to sit down and watch Network again.
@porkchopbob: "it doesn't magically mean Trump isn't a pathological liar or committed illegal acts." Let me second that statement about 100 times.......
@porkchopbob: "it doesn't magically mean Trump isn't a pathological liar or committed illegal acts." Let me second that statement about 100 times.......
Let me add another 1,000 to that.
"Is that a real poncho or is that a Sears poncho?"
Never said I knew for sure, just that we’ll probly never know
that was posted by way of speculation, or conjecture as you pointed out, in response to the young impressionable mind comment, As A Possible Response to the day in day out attacks on Trump somehow twisting his mind into madness
“irresponsible to guess b4 we know” - horseshit - nothing but a friendly comment - there’s more irresponsibility than you could imagine right now by way of guessing what happened - it’s called discussion
BUT YOU’RE RIGHT, that notion I speculated on could be pure unadulterated horseshit too
luckily Trump escaped basically unscathed - he remains pond slime to his enemies & the beat goes on ……
... luckily Trump escaped basically unscathed
Luckiest man in the universe at that point. An RCH from becoming headless. Worrying about his shoes .... surprised he didn't request fresh underpants.
It’s horrific - as you said b4, how on earth have politics/civility deteriorated to this point
-
bro should it switch-back to topic “time for Joe to go”
i41 think the president should step down - he can do that honorably if Mrs asks him to, if he’s confident VP Harris will capably continue their work, & she indicates eagerness to give it a shot if the public mood/polls etc show that it’d be a worthwhile effort - but as robslob said, it has to happen SOON
Pres Biden should understand that it’d be for the good of the country, & his party too - he could still have his hand in it behind the scenes - imo he’d gain respect by stepping down
speculating he’ll come to that call - Jill imo must start the process & point him in that direction
current conjecture seems to be about 50/50 (run/retire)
It’s horrific - as you said b4, how on earth have politics/civility deteriorated to this point
It's a mystery isn't it? First white supremacist Trump supporters come out of the wood work to violently march on Charlottesville. Then angry white people storm the capitol after fiery Trump speeches after he lied about the election. And now some unhinged kid shoots at him after a Summer of loud, angry rhetoric.
I just don't know what could incite this kind of public rage? Feels like everyone's blood has been boiling since, like, 2015 or so. Weird.
Trump's Supreme Court basically gives him a pass on a litany of charges, he dodges assassination by inches and then the Classified Documents Case gets dropped. I'm starting to hear the theme music from "the Omen" (Ave Satani) whenever I see him in public.
he pissed on protocol, crapped on the Constitution, went behind people’s backs & in their faces flipping them off while criminally handpicking his own Supreme Court
remark, again I claim ignorance, simply did not know the Supreme Court consisted of Trump minions -
the SCOTUS graphic posted last week spoke to this also - as you said, it’s Trump’s Supreme Court
no ex Pres has ever held more sway than DJ Trump
proof, his cronies on the court brazenly dropped charges & let em walk when (his enemies say) Trump committed crimes against America withholding classified documents
these don’t have anything to do w/the shooting incident, however, it’s a mecca in Milwaukee nonetheless as the GOP convenes Trump-eting its ticket to ad-Vance American values/interests etc - the Mecca is where Kareem, Oscar & Bucks played back in the day
but it’s the present day now & as the band strikes up the familiar strains of HDAHAgain, Americans can drop labels for a week to unify in support of Republicans during their convention - just like next month for Democrats in Chicago
🇺🇸then support-respectfully as a grateful united citizenry, the victor in November🇺🇸 - this is the America we’ve had b4 & we should always strive to attain it in the patriotic spirit of unity - I realize the naive ignorance of that, But I Still Believe It
sentencing day Sept 18 in federal court for felony conviction, so hope yet for those fearful of Donald & wanting him DQ’d into incarceration & extinction
ups to Pres Biden, he speaks for everyone in wanting peaceful unity in the wake of the shooting, & beyond
Now Joe has COVID. I think it may be time to give it up, Joe. My personal pick is Kamala Harris. I think she's smart enough, tough enough, and experienced enough to get it done! My gut feeling now, especially after the COVID diagnosis, is that Biden is going to lose this election.
@robslob I like Kamala, I would be all in on her. I really don't know what's going to happen. I think a case of COVID will be forgotten in a few weeks, unless his health is really affected by it.
The RNC speakers have been a parade of spineless Trump cucks, including Vance whose beliefs are even further to the right than Trump's arbitrary positions for the day. Apparently Matt Goetz was really excited when he heard JV Dance was making an appearance 😉
The Trump-Vance ticket should be an easy one to pick apart for an incumbent candidate who has brought stability and growth. But yet, here we are. The DNC better make a united decision soon, Biden can't afford any more missteps. There's just too much at stake.
Sorry, but a UNIFIED Republican party (all those LIARS who smeared their guy ... right up until nomination) beats a fractured Democrat team in 2024. The longer Joe drags his feet in denial (not the African river) the worse this will be. The Dem's are gonna have some issues to address during the 4 year off-season. They need to start ENERGIZING their party ... 4 years ago!
I hated typing this more than you hated reading it.
Since Rusty brought up the liars at The Republican Convention: Nikki Haley officially endorsed Trump. CNN on Tuesday played video of some of her remarks during her Presidential campaign: Trump is "toxic", "unhinged", "unfit to be President" among other things. I HOPE that Biden and Harris are going to use some of this same video, real soon.
@robslob Yeah the principles of RNC speakers are pretty fluid aren't they? Just like the people saying God saved Trump - a crook and all around heel - from the bullet, but not the firefighting dad guy in crowd. Mysterious ways, right? The effort they go to rationalize this easily explainable shitshow is unreal. They had Hulk Hogan on last night, a guy who made a living entertaining people with fake beefs and conflicts, and the irony is completely lost on them.
I'm still surprised Trump didn't just pick Mike Pence as VP running mate again. Did something happen? 🤔
@porkchopbob I'm sure that the Evangelical Right are feeling proud and righteous that God spared their candidate by sacrificing a hard working husband and father instead.
