@cyclone88 oh man, that was nuts. If they turn on Pence, one of Trump's most loyal cucks, who is safe? These are people who attempted to kidnap a Governor, I wouldn't put anything past them at this point. They should all be charged in the conspiracy, like a RICO case. See how Rudy likes being on the other side of that.
They turned on Pence because Trump told them to - "Pence doesn't have the courage to do what's right."
@cyclone88 oh I know, it’s just frightening how quickly they turned on him, and to the ugly degree they did so.
@cyclone88 oh man, that was nuts. If they turn on Pence, one of Trump's most loyal cucks, who is safe? These are people who attempted to kidnap a Governor, I wouldn't put anything past them at this point. They should all be charged in the conspiracy, like a RICO case. See how Rudy likes being on the other side of that.
Pence has been Trump's greatest cheerleader for 4 years. He's given accolades to Terrorist Don regularly. This from the "religious / moral" guy that Pence attempts to portray. In the end, even Pence couldn't go along, as he knew he was being asked to do things he had no authority to do.
As for Rudy - Either this week or next his pardon will be delivered along with one for idiot, Don Jr. and the rest of the clan family, or is it Klan family?
Pardon or not, the New York State Supreme Court will most likely disbar Guiliani for his role in promoting what he knew was an unconstitutional attempt to disrupt the business of the legislative branch - a ceremonial counting of the votes and lying that Pence's role was anything other than as presiding officer. By the time the votes get to Congress, all state and court challenges to their validity have been exhausted.
First Trump divided America. Now, he has divided the Republican Party. I can't see him or any of his family members or sycophants running as a Republican in the next Presidential election. At best, they'll run in some rogue third/alternate party. As we (I) know, third parties are never taken seriously by the press or the public at large - no matter what their meaning or intent is. At best, he'll succeed in furthering the divide among Republicans - which will be good news for the Democrats. Regardless, I hope this means the end of the Trump regime.
This was one of the more disturbing MAGA actions I've read of.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-carved-manatees-back/
In mid-January 2021, Florida wildlife officials announced that they were investigating the illegal mutilation of a threatened Florida manatee after it was discovered that the word “Trump” was carved into the mammal’s back.
This was one of the more disturbing MAGA actions I've read of.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-carved-manatees-back/
In mid-January 2021, Florida wildlife officials announced that they were investigating the illegal mutilation of a threatened Florida manatee after it was discovered that the word “Trump” was carved into the mammal’s back.
I saw that. I am an animal lover, and actions like this disgust me. What a callous thing to do to such a docile creature.
Unfortunately, the bar association is just a professional membership organization that sponsors events, speakers, and continuing education. I doubt he cares. It's the Appellate Division of the New York Supreme Court who has the power to disbar him & keep him from ever practicing law again.
In the rest of the world, they are considered threatened. Not here - they were downgraded from the endangered species list. They're among the gentlest of sea creatures, slow moving, solitary, and known as "sea cows" for their quiet disposition.
Disgusting.
My only surprise is that there weren't more law enforcement amassed at the Capitol to prevent what we all knew was coming. A couple dozen congressional police and a few hundred National Guard troops not even close to the Capitol?
Should have been a LARGE law enforcement presence all over the Capital given the rhetoric and rallies witnessed for a couple of days now. That said, as other posters have said, Trump and his enablers own this mess.
Several agencies, including the FBI, warned of a "warlike mob". Several times the national Guard was requested, but Capitol Security turned them down. Virginia and Maryland offered state troopers, they were turned down. plenty of warning from the experts but the Capitol security said they would be secure.
That alone is probably worthy of several hundred different conspiracy theories. Why did the Capitol Police hold open doors and let protestors go through?
Others are about Antifa members. Russian agents in the crowd, A paid mob, A false flag covering the stealing of the Ga election (same day vote counts were finalizing.)
One good one is the Anti-Trump guy in the middle of the crowd (John Sullivan, founder of "Insurgence USA") , videotaping the entire thing, even the shooting by a Capitol Police officer. Know what he advertised that day? He called for Antifa members to show up at the rally. Check out his video and see how he is urging on the protestors to do violence.
Utahn inside US Capitol describes chaotic scene | KUTV
conservativeangle.com/anti-trump--blm-transgender-protestor-with-unlicensed-pistol-and-high-capacity-magazine-arrested-near-capitolstepfather-hes-not-a-maga-personfather--bla/
Trump even told the "peaceful protestors" to "stay peaceful", and later to "go home".
Just like any group there were ones who were just nothing more than members of fringe groups, some were unduly effected by the mob mentality, some actually believed the conspiracy theories,
There have been several invasions and terrorist events at the Capitol building, as recent as November17, 1983.
4 historic attacks at the U.S. Capitol | CBC News
I read the KUTV story Jerry. A video link I think you tried to provide did not work.
These types of events seem to attract all the usual suspects don't they. It's where the action is. Being in the capitol is an offense in and of it's self that Sullivan or anyone should be charged for. The next question is what other charges might these individuals face...as in who was engaging in the violence? Trump's supporters, some of them, like to say they are the party of law and order...and a good number of them are. But then of course we have the far right extremists, the militant types who do not respect law and order, they want their law and order and I would assume those were the ones who were actively fighting with police and the ones who were believed to be on scene for nefarious reasons.
So it isn't the same thing to say that a left wing activist was there among the crowd as it is to say that this left wing activist was there to engage in violence and destruction.
But on one point you have established, there were individuals of different walks of life together that day. People who would likely want to fight and kill each other on any other given day. I doubt that Sullivan was the only one of his ilk to be there. But to my eyes, from what I have seen and read, I'd label most of what I think I can label being done by right wing Trump supporters. Granted, some of the people watching on video doing this stuff, you just can't tell who they are. That is what investigations are for.
Confederate flags in the halls of congress during the riot have CNN, MSNBC and former Obama administration officials very upset and they want Trump's scalp over this and it is proof positive for them that Trump's supporters are racist white supremacy people and Trump is one of them. But here in my area the people I know who voted for Trump did so because they feared socialism, open borders, high taxes, rights choking over regulations and they ( my age group/mid 70's) thought Obama was a Muslim and were offended by gay marriage and allowing men who thought they were actually a woman trapped in a man's body relieve themselves in the lady's room. That the threats to take their cars, airplanes, hamburgers, the coal and gasoline industry away from them were real. So another thing they liked about Trump was his promise to put only conservative judges on the courts. These old people don't appear to be racist to me and many like me dont even own a gun and would never fly or display a Confederate flag or Nazi flag.
I'm a moderate Democrat who vote for Obama. I did vote for Reagan once when he ran against Jimmy Carter. Personally I'm very uncomfortable with people at both sides of this. I tried to march last summer in a Black Lives Matter march in my hometown in the wake of George Floyd's death and as we approached downtown headed to the police station I looked behind me and was stunned at 7 or 8 anti Capitalism and pro Socialism signs. I suddenly realised I was with a bunch of communists or something so I dropped out. The destruction of police stations, historical statues, looting of stores, burning of McDonald's that soon followed was WRONG and illegal! Not at all what Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King or John F. Kennedy would HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH!!!!!! And what happened at Charlottesville with neonazi people with torches chanting about Jews. People waving Confederate traitor flags in the capital and trying to challenge the election results by violence IS WRONG AND ANTI AMERICAN. We can't allow a mob to invade our Capitol waving Confederate flags OR illegally vandalize even statues of Robert E. Lee not to mention George Washington and Christopher Columbus IS WRONG AND AGAINST THE LAW!!!!
You challenge elections in the courts and if a community wants certain statues removed you lobby your local government officials and or file suite in court.
NEVER TAKE THE LAW IN YOUR OWN HANDS OR PARTICIPATE IN MOB RULE. We are a nation of laws and we should be decent and respectful of all people no matter of race, creed, politics or religion.
This country is so divided and has become so violent. The Capitol invasion was wrong and absolutely scary. But so was all the violence in Portland. All these people, on both, sides need to be prosecuted.
And trust me. President Obama and Joe Biden disagree with defunding the police. As Obama recently said and was quickly trashed by people in his own party that " If we defund the police then if someone is breaking in on my mother in law....who is she suppose to call?"
Defund the police is insane. You don't want to live in a city with a neutered weak police department. Better trained? Yes. Weed out the bad ones? Yes Just as any business should.
When a police officer interacts with you be respectful and never be hateful and absolutely never try to fight or resist. If necessary like him take you to jail then hire an attorney and if you've been treated unfairly or illegally, then sue the jurisdiction. Never challenged a police officer. And 99% of the time no one gets hurt.
Interesting article on how the pendulum can swing in a region and a person very quickly. No surprise that economics drives a lot of peoples' politics, but kind of frightening how quickly one person can rally people using their economic and social fears. A sobering reminder that this is not a drill.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-radicalization-of-kevin-greeson
@porkchopbob I only scanned the article, but I must say this. The guy mentioned in the article is probably clinically "bi-polar". One of the friends that I've referred to among my "conservative relations" has, over the years been everything from a real hippy to a Hari Krishna devout to an actual communist, halfway back to a bleeding heart liberal and then morphing most recently into an ultra-conservative. Some people go where the wind takes them. Truthfully, I find these types to be a little scary.
@rusty perhaps, but I hesitate to diagnose based on an article, and I wouldn't dismiss peoples' shifting beliefs on mental illness.
Some people are simply impressionable. Many believe that a President is going to fix all of their problems and are upset when that doesn't happen in four years.
Interesting article on how the pendulum can swing in a region and a person very quickly. No surprise that economics drives a lot of peoples' politics, but kind of frightening how quickly one person can rally people using their economic and social fears. A sobering reminder that this is not a drill.
https://www.propublica.org/article/the-radicalization-of-kevin-greesonwh
This is where I think people's compete ignorance of basic civics comes into play (I know I've said that repeatedly), but if a person knows that the 1/6 vote count is ceremonial w/the VP acting as emcee, then they'd know there was nothing Pence could've done & Trump was wrong in telling them Pence could.
That aside, evangelicals are now - after they've got their anti-abortion judges - examining their role in the insurrection. Ed Stetzer, head of the Billy Graham Center, called for a reckoning of the mostly white evangelicals in an npr interview:
"Part of this reckoning is: How did we get here? How were we so easily fooled by conspiracy theories? We need to make clear who we are. And our allegiance is to King Jesus, not to what boasting political leader might come next."
These are people who voted, protested, and broke the law for an immoral corrupt man who is 180 degrees from what their core beliefs are. Stetzer, at least, admits they sold out.
Also, people are influenced by their peers. Some change political, social, religious views according to who're they're dating at a time. Americans just aren't that bound by well-thought-out political beliefs.
Americans just are that bound by well-thought-out political beliefs.
@cyclone88 Part of it is that the differences aren't really that far apart, but the networks and candidates would have you believe otherwise. Incredulous is more entertaining than reasonable disagreement. Relatively speaking, the changes in policy were almost superficial from Clinton>W>Obama, but come election time the Parties want you to believe it's Hatfield vs. McCoys.
Indeed...Another way they portray division is with the generic Blue/Red state concept. The truth is nearly every state is Purple with concentrations of blue and red voters within each state...Some lean toward one or the other but it’s not so simple to portray them strictly as Blue or Red...The story is more nuanced than that.
That sentence was supposed to read Americans aren't bound by....
Anyway, you're right. The average person isn't deeply affected by who is in power except in situations like war & 9/11. Part of that is career bureaucrats who keep things humming along & it doesn't really matter who is at the top of the organizational chart - e.g., intelligence analysts do their jobs & report high threats according to protocol. It's the politicians & wanna be pols who would have us believe there are deep divides - the 45th president being the exception of course.
One of the many deplorable things this administration did was attack, intimidate, and in some cases remove life long dedicated civil servants who work hard for the public regardless of what party controls various branches of gov’t.
Professionals who have worked for numerous presidents and administrations who have sacrificed greatly were unceremoniously removed from their posts by a vindictive piece of sh@t president who didn’t like hearing the truth.
