Why are the Democrats not tearfully and passionately calling for stricter knife regulations/background checks, closing the knife show loopholes, etc.?? 😉

So who were the ones complaining? Where you get the info Fox news or asshole trump?

This situation demonstrates that keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people saves lives. Lives would have been lost had this guy managed to get a gun. This reinforces the attempt by some to restrict access to guns for people who are suspected terrorists.

Check the news about Ohio State student using a car and a knife to attack people.
He was put down by a campus police officer.

Guess what several prominent democrats chimed in about. They decried the deplorable "gun violence" on the Ohio State Campus.

REALLY!!!!!

I have a very good friend who goes to OSU, and you can read the chain of events from most news sources. None of what you say is accurate.

Initially the campus put out an alert that there was a shooter on campus, so the campus went into lock down mode. Either there was mixed information or campus security was being overly cautious in order to avoid a VA Tech situation where 32 people were gunned down and killed.

Hours later, it was revealed that the only shots fired were by an officer, who took out a lone man with a car and a knife.

No one wants to take everyone's guns away, this is a myth. But it was a very good thing this kid did not have a gun - he sent 7 people to the hospital from his car and a knife, but they are all expected to quickly recover. It was very good a trained police officer had a gun and not some wannabe-Vigilante.

See how far we've come in the Whipping Post, nary a mention of the bad guy's religion - I'm sorry alleged religion.

And no mention of his intent, I'm sorry - alleged intent.

Those who initiate the hostility towards an entire group of people, are the exact root of our problem. Only a fool does not realize that.

This situation demonstrates that keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people saves lives. Lives would have been lost had this guy managed to get a gun. This reinforces the attempt by some to restrict access to guns for people who are suspected terrorists.

________________________________________________________________________________________

If you say this Islamic Extremist Terrorist was a "suspected terrorists" why did Obama let him into the U.S. to freely roam around on the taxpayer's dime?

If you say this Islamic Extremist Terrorist was a "suspected terrorists" why did Obama let him into the U.S. to freely roam around on the taxpayer's dime?

How did you make this up? Records state that his family of 8 emigrated from Somalia via Pakistan a few years ago. Catholic Charities in Dallas provided financial assistance before their move to Ohio. There is no history or ties to any terrorist groups, they were never suspected of any affiliations. Everything indicates he acted alone. I wouldn't call an 18-year old kid with a knife a "sleeper terrorist plot".

My OSU friend told me he saw a lot of anti-Muslim and anti-Semitic Trump-inspired White Power hate speech on campus immediately after the election. Fear just generates more fear.

Fear just generates more fear.

Yeah, whenever I am afraid because of the fear generated by others, I usually respond by attacking innocent people with a knife.

Fear just generates more fear.

Yeah, whenever I am afraid because of the fear generated by others, I usually respond by attacking innocent people with a knife.

Don't we all? I think the poor little fella's actions are totally justified.

Fear just generates more fear.

Yeah, whenever I am afraid because of the fear generated by others, I usually respond by attacking innocent people with a knife.

Don't we all? I think the poor little fella's actions are totally justified.

Me as well, totally justified. I mean after Catholic Charities in Dallas provided financial assistance, life had to have been worse than it was in Somalia.

Fear just generates more fear.

Yeah, whenever I am afraid because of the fear generated by others, I usually respond by attacking innocent people with a knife.

Well, no one is confusing him with you. The kid deserved to get shot by a cop, he attacked people.

Those who initiate the hostility towards an entire group of people, are the exact root of our problem. Only a fool does not realize that.

Therefore, had we displayed a more hospitable attitude, an incident like 9-11 could have been prevented?

If students at OSU were allowed to carry, then there could have just been one dead terrorist and NO students going to the hospital.

Those who initiate the hostility towards an entire group of people, are the exact root of our problem. Only a fool does not realize that.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

That would be Al Qaeda, ISIS and their kind.

If students at OSU were allowed to carry, then there could have just been one dead terrorist and NO students going to the hospital.

Oh Lord, that is a frightening prospect. As a former college instructor and (long ago) student, the prospect of tens of thousands of 19 year-olds carrying guns around campus and into classrooms is horrifying.

Thank God the only person with a gun was the cop, a trained professional peace officer, and the assailant didn't have one. No fatalities among the victims and the assailant is dead, quickly dispatched. You'd rather have a bunch of kids in a shoot out on the quad, stray bullets flying into classrooms?

If students at OSU were allowed to carry, then there could have just been one dead terrorist and NO students going to the hospital.

Yeah, great idea. Let's arm a bunch of unsupervised drunk teenagers with guns. I don't see a problem there at all.

Therefore, had we displayed a more hospitable attitude, an incident like 9-11 could have been prevented?

This is such a bizzarre post, I don't even know where to begin. How in the hell do you do deduce this from what I posted?

If students at OSU were allowed to carry, then there could have just been one dead terrorist and NO students going to the hospital.

Oh Lord, that is a frightening prospect. As a former college instructor and (long ago) student, the prospect of tens of thousands of 19 year-olds carrying guns around campus and into classrooms is horrifying.

Thank God the only person with a gun was the cop, a trained professional peace officer, and the assailant didn't have one. No fatalities among the victims and the assailant is dead, quickly dispatched. You'd rather have a bunch of kids in a shoot out on the quad, stray bullets flying into classrooms?

Frightening and horrifying to who? It’s not horrifying to me, or millions of other gun owners in this country. I’m glad to see some colleges are starting to allow students and faculty to carry on campus, and I hope this is a growing trend. So what you are saying is that tens of thousands of 19 year-olds should be denied their right to self-defense because the prospect of them legally carrying a gun scares you? Oh, brother. I’m sure you don’t mind if that same 19 year old carries a gun into combat in a foreign land to protect you, but God forbid he carry one back home to protect himself.

What if the assailant had a gun and the nearest cop was 10 minutes away? So you’d rather have a massacre on the quad than a kid(s) with a carry permit defending himself and others. I prefer the headline that reads “student with handgun stops attack” as opposed to “17 students massacred awaiting cops to arrive”. But that’s just me. If there had been just one armed student, then there may have been NO injured students. To me that is a better outcome than 7 injured students. None injured is better than 7 injured. Simple math/logic.

There is no need to live in fear of guns. If you live in a state that allows concealed carry, then you are already among people everyday who carry guns and you do not even know it. The guy in line behind you at the grocery store…the soccer mom dropping her kids off at practice…normal/nice folks going about their daily routines just like you. The wild west shootouts and vigilante fantasies only exist in the minds of the anti-gunners who want people to be afraid of guns.

If students at OSU were allowed to carry, then there could have just been one dead terrorist and NO students going to the hospital.

Yeah, great idea. Let's arm a bunch of unsupervised drunk teenagers with guns. I don't see a problem there at all.

Sorry…I didn’t realize that all the victims of the attack were drunk…I must have missed that piece of very relevant information in the news report. And in most (if not all) states that allow concealed carry, even if a person has a permit to carry, he/she cannot carry while intoxicated. Kinda like owning/driving a car. Just because I have a license to drive my car, that doesn’t mean I can legally drive it when I’m intoxicated. And just because I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, that doesn’t mean I can carry it when I’m drinking. So is it safe to assume that you don’t have a problem with a non-intoxicated teenage victim who is being violently attacked/raped on a college campus defending himself/herself with a gun that is legally owned and for which he/she has a permit to carry?

Frightening and horrifying to who? It’s not horrifying to me, or millions of other gun owners in this country. I’m glad to see some colleges are starting to allow students and faculty to carry on campus, and I hope this is a growing trend. So what you are saying is that tens of thousands of 19 year-olds should be denied their right to self-defense because the prospect of them legally carrying a gun scares you? Oh, brother. I’m sure you don’t mind if that same 19 year old carries a gun into combat in a foreign land to protect you, but God forbid he carry one back home to protect himself.

I said to who - to ME, as an instructor. Owning a gun is a right. Carrying it around in public is not a right in most places. Citizens have a right to defend themselves within reason - butterfly knives, for instance, are typically illegal.

A campus is not a war or combat zone, it is a school and a workplace, and students are not trained in marksmanship upon acceptance. There is a reason some high schools have metal detectors, or should guns be allowed there as well? Take your gun grocery shopping if it makes you feel better, that's great, but they have no place in classrooms and a campus. You might feel safe with a gun on your hip, but many other people don't know you or if you are crazy and won't feel safe. This assailant didn't or couldn't get a gun, and that is why his victims are alive. A trained police officer justifiably shot him, and that is why there weren't more victims. Case closed.

[Edited on 12/2/2016 by porkchopbob]

Therefore, had we displayed a more hospitable attitude, an incident like 9-11 could have been prevented?

This is such a bizzarre post, I don't even know where to begin. How in the hell do you do deduce this from what I posted?

Easily. Lets not blame the terrorists, it's the way that Muslims have been mistreated. Right? In other words, we have it coming?

This situation demonstrates that keeping guns out of the hands of the wrong people saves lives. Lives would have been lost had this guy managed to get a gun. This reinforces the attempt by some to restrict access to guns for people who are suspected terrorists.

What made him a suspected terrorist before this attack? How would restricting access to guns for suspected terrorists have impacted this dead scum bag had he tried to get one?

I mean I do not think that suspected terrorists should have legal access to guns either. I understand both side of the argument however.

I'd just like to know how you think he was a suspected terrorist before Monday? Must've been his religion or ethnicity then huh? Did you just do what I think you did?

Easily. Lets not blame the terrorists, it's the way that Muslims have been mistreated. Right? In other words, we have it coming?

It's interesting that your mind went here. You have quite the imagination. You are insinuating that my position is that the US conveyed anti-Muslim sentiments prior to 9/11, which is therefore the root of the problem, and 9/11 was a justified solution. I was 22 when 9/11 happened, so although I didn't follow current events in college as much as I do now, I don't remember there being any anti-Muslim messages. Therefore I don't believe that's why 9/11 happened. In your 9/11 analogy, it was Bin Laden who held contempt for an entire group of people and vowed to destroy us. He was the root of the problem, and I'm proud of the Obama administration for getting rid of the cancer that he was - giving the green light was risky, and it showed tremendous leadership to give it. Trump wrote a book about how one must never be afraid to take risks in order to be successful. Well, Obama took a big risk and it paid off in dividends. The right will blame him for creating ISIS, but luckily the right also knows Trump will easily defeat them. Now how you link that to Jerry blaming Democrats over gun control is way beyond my comprehension.

Sorry…I didn’t realize that all the victims of the attack were drunk…I must have missed that piece of very relevant information in the news report. And in most (if not all) states that allow concealed carry, even if a person has a permit to carry, he/she cannot carry while intoxicated. Kinda like owning/driving a car. Just because I have a license to drive my car, that doesn’t mean I can legally drive it when I’m intoxicated. And just because I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon, that doesn’t mean I can carry it when I’m drinking. So is it safe to assume that you don’t have a problem with a non-intoxicated teenage victim who is being violently attacked/raped on a college campus defending himself/herself with a gun that is legally owned and for which he/she has a permit to carry?

No, that would be stupid to assume that. You said if it was legal for students to carry, there could be one dead terrorist and no injured students. My point, is a more likely scenario is that drunk college students will injure or kill more students over time than this terrorist did, who didn't kill any. And how do you not see the irony, that the terrorist who didn't use a gun didn't kill anyone. How do you not see that? This story helps the pro-gun control crowd big time.

Frightening and horrifying to who? It’s not horrifying to me, or millions of other gun owners in this country. I’m glad to see some colleges are starting to allow students and faculty to carry on campus, and I hope this is a growing trend. So what you are saying is that tens of thousands of 19 year-olds should be denied their right to self-defense because the prospect of them legally carrying a gun scares you? Oh, brother. I’m sure you don’t mind if that same 19 year old carries a gun into combat in a foreign land to protect you, but God forbid he carry one back home to protect himself.

What if the assailant had a gun and the nearest cop was 10 minutes away? So you’d rather have a massacre on the quad than a kid(s) with a carry permit defending himself and others. I prefer the headline that reads “student with handgun stops attack” as opposed to “17 students massacred awaiting cops to arrive”. But that’s just me. If there had been just one armed student, then there may have been NO injured students. To me that is a better outcome than 7 injured students. None injured is better than 7 injured. Simple math/logic.

There is no need to live in fear of guns. If you live in a state that allows concealed carry, then you are already among people everyday who carry guns and you do not even know it. The guy in line behind you at the grocery store…the soccer mom dropping her kids off at practice…normal/nice folks going about their daily routines just like you. The wild west shootouts and vigilante fantasies only exist in the minds of the anti-gunners who want people to be afraid of guns.

You mean a fantasy like a college student filing the necessary paperwork to get a license to carry, who happens to be in the immediate area of a terrorist attack, who pulls the gun from his holster, aims, shoots, fires, and hits the terrorist target before he can hurt his fellow classmates, who then cheer him as he blows the smoke from the barrel, spins it around his finger and slams it down back into the holster. Girls flock to his side.

True, guns don't kill people. People kill people. Which is why we need to make sure we keep them out of the wrong hands. Criminal minds, the mentally unstable, and irresponsible and inexperienced adults should be banned from buying until they can prove otherwise. Again, my point is that college students are the furthest from responsible and experienced. Why on earth would you encourage young kids who are on their own unsupervised for the first time in their lives, and maybe you've heard before that college students like to drink and party. I dont' know, just kinda seems a bit foolish.

As for serving in the military and being in college, it sounds like you want more government regulation to enforce private institutions to change their policies.

@ BoytonBrother and porkchopbob -

Rather than responding to each of you individually, it’s easier to just do one response. Your comments about college students having guns can basically be boiled down to these “concerns“ (or some variation of):
- Lack of marksmanship/competency
- Possibility of using a gun while intoxicated
- Lack of supervision/experience/maturity
- Only trained professionals (i.e. cops and other agents of the State) should have guns

But these so called concerns could be applied to anyone (not just college students) and any self-defense scenario…so your beef is not really with college students carrying guns to defend themselves. Your beef is really with any private citizen taking personal responsibility for the protection of his life, family and property. You’re just anti-gun, pro-government. Period. I’m sorry, but I just do not get this irrational and excessive fear of guns that some folks in this country have.

But nevertheless I will take a stab at answering your concerns…

Lack of marksmanship/competency:
Concealed carry permit holders are required to take a class, in which they must exhibit competency (drawing the gun from a holster, aiming and firing, etc.) and self-defense levels of marksmanship in front of a certified instructor (typically a LEO). And realize that we are not talking about 300 yard sniper accuracy here. I believe LEO statistics show that most self-defense shots are taken at about 10 feet or less. In the situation under discussion, what level of marksmanship would it require to hit a full sized male at arms length (remember this was an assailant with a knife)? I guarantee I could take any average 19 year old off the street and within 10 minutes have him/her capable of hitting a target of a size equivalent to an adult male at arms length. And keep in mind that most folks obtain a concealed carry permit because they already own and like guns, enjoy shooting them, they are experienced at using them, etc. Otherwise why would they want to carry a gun in the first place? This concern is unfounded.

Possibility of using a gun while intoxicated:
Carrying a gun while intoxicated is already illegal for anyone of any age, even for folks who have a concealed carry permit. The permit does not authorize people to be stupid or irresponsible. And I believe OSU allows students to have guns on campus as long as they keep them locked in their cars. So what’s to stop Joe Fraternity from grabbing his gun from his car after having a few beers at the keg party? I was in college for 6 years. Believe me, I know what goes on there. I was an intoxicated 19 year old on many, many occasions. I also owned guns and was involved in recreational shooting and hunting. But even at that age I knew to never, ever mix guns and alcohol. Oddly enough I survived all those years of college w/o ever going on a drunken shooting spree. Amazing, and difficult to believe I’m sure. But anyway…this concern really applies to ALL gun owners, not just college students. I know plenty of adults who abuse alcohol. Also, taking this logic to its ultimate and inevitable conclusion…we should not allow college students to own cars either…right? I guarantee you more college students are killed by drunk drivers (themselves or others) than are killed by guns. Are you really concerned about the safety of college students or just pushing an anti-gun agenda? So this concern is also unfounded. In addition, it applies to ALL gun owners, not just college students - and therefore it’s really an argument against guns in general, not just campus carry. And it proves too much, unless of course you think 19 year olds shouldn’t be allowed to have cars on campus. (And actually…as a side note…I think most states require permit holders to be 21. Mine does. And I’m not necessarily saying that all college students should be allowed to carry, but only those who have met the necessary requirements to obtain the permit. If they are competent enough and legally allowed to carry everywhere else, why does that competency/legal right magically and arbitrarily disappear just because he/she steps across some line onto a public college campus? It’s perfectly fine for 21 year old Joe College to carry his .45 in the store or bar 5 feet away from the campus boundary, but God forbid he actually carry it on campus. Really??? The logic of that is laughable.)

Lack of supervision/experience/maturity:
See above. Unfounded, applies to ALL gun owners (not just campus carry), and proves too much (unless you want to prohibit cars, knives and a host of other “dangerous/deadly/bad” things on campus).

Only trained professionals (i.e. cops and other agents of the State) should have guns:
Yeah, because they are all mature/moral individuals who never shoot any one by accident, never use unjustified lethal force, never get intoxicated and are all expert marksmen…right? Please. Care to put your local neighborhood cop (or campus security guy) up against some of the permit holders down at the local shooting range? And remember...The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes. The average response time of a .357 magnum is about 1400 feet per second. Which would you rather stake your life on (or your wife's or children's lives on)?

It would be interesting to see some real data. Some colleges/states do allow students to carry on campus so there may be some data out there. I’d be willing to bet that in the real world in which we live, the number of wild west shootouts among drunken frat boys with concealed carry permits is far less (or most likely even non-existent) when compared to the incidents where a student with a permit used the gun for good to repel a would be attacker.

At the end of the day…it’s not really about the safety of college students…it’s really just that some folks have irrational fears about all those scary people carrying guns, loathe the idea of concealed carry altogether and love depriving other people of their rights.

I will leave you with my favorite definition of "gun control", and one that perfectly describes all those who favor victim disarmament.

Gun Control: The theory that a woman (or a 19 year old college student) found dead in an alley, raped and strangled with her panty hose, is somehow morally superior to a woman explaining to police how her attacker got that fatal bullet wound.

*I added the part in parentheses.

Cheers.

[Edited on 12/2/2016 by Redfish7]

Redfish, I'm not sure why you are assuming college kids are drunk all of the time, I never said anything related to that, which appears to be most of your point. There are 60,000 students at OSU, and many of whom live off of campus and do own a gun for all I know. Great for them. Don't bring it to school. Many of the kids in the dorms probably used guns as teens back home. Guns per se are not the issue.

The issue is it is a school and a work place. It is not a public space, it is patrolled by campus police, who do not need to be worried about firearms surrounding them. Here's a twist on your scenario where the cops are 10 minutes away - what if they arrive and can't identify which person with a gun is the assailant? They shoot both. The more guns out, the more bullets, and not every bullet hits their mark.

It is not an irrational fear - I have worked in academic offices where there were legit concerns of the mental health of a student. I have worked at a school that had metal detectors because guns were a potential issue. I have worked at a school where there was a threat of gun violence. More guns doesn't help any of those situations. Never mind that no college would get insured.

But where does it end? Do students bring their guns to class or do they drop them in a locker with security at the door? Can they have them in the dorm next to their bong? Teens have to get classes to drive, but car wrecks are the leading cause of teenage deaths.

And how about the work place - does the Dean's Secretary have to carry a gun? Brittany from HR?

Your gun control theory doesn't hold much water. Brock Turner wouldn't have been shot by his intoxicated rape victim. However, Trayvon Martin is dead because he tried to fight off a guy playing vigilante.

You have a right to own a gun, and in some places carry one, but an arms race on campus of all places isn't the answer.

Redfish, I'm not sure why you are assuming college kids are drunk all of the time, I never said anything related to that, which appears to be most of your point. There are 60,000 students at OSU, and many of whom live off of campus and do own a gun for all I know. Great for them. Don't bring it to school. Many of the kids in the dorms probably used guns as teens back home. Guns per se are not the issue.

The issue is it is a school and a work place. It is not a public space, it is patrolled by campus police, who do not need to be worried about firearms surrounding them. Here's a twist on your scenario where the cops are 10 minutes away - what if they arrive and can't identify which person with a gun is the assailant? They shoot both. The more guns out, the more bullets, and not every bullet hits their mark.

It is not an irrational fear - I have worked in academic offices where there were legit concerns of the mental health of a student. I have worked at a school that had metal detectors because guns were a potential issue. I have worked at a school where there was a threat of gun violence. More guns doesn't help any of those situations. Never mind that no college would get insured.

But where does it end? Do students bring their guns to class or do they drop them in a locker with security at the door? Can they have them in the dorm next to their bong? Teens have to get classes to drive, but car wrecks are the leading cause of teenage deaths.

And how about the work place - does the Dean's Secretary have to carry a gun? Brittany from HR?

Your gun control theory doesn't hold much water. Brock Turner wouldn't have been shot by his intoxicated rape victim. However, Trayvon Martin is dead because he tried to fight off a guy playing vigilante.

You have a right to own a gun, and in some places carry one, but an arms race on campus of all places isn't the answer.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

"an arms race on campus of all places isn't the answer"

So what is your solution?

Redfish, I'm not sure why you are assuming college kids are drunk all of the time, I never said anything related to that, which appears to be most of your point. There are 60,000 students at OSU, and many of whom live off of campus and do own a gun for all I know. Great for them. Don't bring it to school. Many of the kids in the dorms probably used guns as teens back home. Guns per se are not the issue.

The issue is it is a school and a work place. It is not a public space, it is patrolled by campus police, who do not need to be worried about firearms surrounding them. Here's a twist on your scenario where the cops are 10 minutes away - what if they arrive and can't identify which person with a gun is the assailant? They shoot both. The more guns out, the more bullets, and not every bullet hits their mark.

It is not an irrational fear - I have worked in academic offices where there were legit concerns of the mental health of a student. I have worked at a school that had metal detectors because guns were a potential issue. I have worked at a school where there was a threat of gun violence. More guns doesn't help any of those situations. Never mind that no college would get insured.

But where does it end? Do students bring their guns to class or do they drop them in a locker with security at the door? Can they have them in the dorm next to their bong? Teens have to get classes to drive, but car wrecks are the leading cause of teenage deaths.

And how about the work place - does the Dean's Secretary have to carry a gun? Brittany from HR?

Your gun control theory doesn't hold much water. Brock Turner wouldn't have been shot by his intoxicated rape victim. However, Trayvon Martin is dead because he tried to fight off a guy playing vigilante.

You have a right to own a gun, and in some places carry one, but an arms race on campus of all places isn't the answer.

The stuff about college kids being drunk was in response to BoytonBrother. He's the one that brought that up.

Your argument about the cops mistakenly shooting the good guy proves too much. The exact same thing could happen to me in my home...right? So if applied consistently, your argument is actually an argument against ANY private citizen using a firearm to defend himself ANYWHERE at ANYTIME, even in his own home, because he/she would run the risk of being mis-identified as the bad guy and subsequently shot by the cops. You not only have negated my right to carry on campus, you have abolished my right to self-defense entirely. So to be intellectually honest and logically consistent you'll have to come up with something else, or either just have the balls to admit that you really don't like the idea of private citizens having the right to defend themselves with guns at all, anywhere.

And I never said the dean or Brittany in HR would be required to carry a gun...so just stop with your silly straw man arguments.

A couple of questions for you:

1) Assume Joe College Student has a legally owned gun, is skilled enough to handle it safely in a self-defense scenario, and has a permit to carry it concealed. There is a line. On the right side of the line is the OSU campus, on the left side is not the OSU campus. Please explain what happens to Joe as he passes over this line which causes his right to self-defense, and his competency with his gun to magically disappear? (We have already established his competency with the firearm so that he poses no more threat to his fellow students than an armed security guard would.)

2) I don't know if you have a family. If you don't, imagine that you do. An armed assailant breaks into your home and is violently attacking and raping your wife. He has a gun. What do you do? You and your kids are enjoying a movie when a "lone gunmen/active shooter" walks in hell bent on shooting up the place...he's pointing the gun at your son. What do you do? Call 911? Good luck with that. It's ironic that the first thing anti-gunners do when the s**t hits the fan is call someone with a gun to come to their aid and save them. When seconds count, the cops are 20 minutes away. And you're either dead or standing there with your d**k in your hand while your wife gets violently raped and beaten to a pulp. I actually know an anti-gunner who stated that he would rather stand there and doing nothing than shoot the rapist with a gun. I lost all respect for that man at that time. You have a moral responsibility to protect your loved ones. What would you do in those situations? (I'm assuming you don't own a gun).

[Edited on 12/3/2016 by Redfish7]