Haha!....You are the last one to call anyone else a hypocrite..."Intense bias"?......please. My argument has and will continue to be the incredible lack of judgement put forth by the individuals who choose to gather in large groups in public ares during a pandemic when the rest of us have had our abilities to live our lives limited by viewpoints from "Experts".
No, you've only complained about ONE group that you happen to disagree with. I have pointed out that they ALL present further spread risk. For some bizarre reason, you choose not to see that so you can keep whining about protests every chance you get. That's your hypocrisy, buddy. Just about everyone is concerned with mass gatherings, EXCEPT you.
but do not ever expect me to listen to this dribble about how one groups rights to assemble supersede another
Nope. The right to protest is protected, and often people do things other people don't like in protest. Whining that entertainment should resume just because there are protests as baseball fails to contain the virus proves DOCV still doens't understand how this virus works or how concerts and sports work. You just want to complain - BLM protests, masks, closed schools - typical self-contradictory complaining without any actual solutions.
Haha!....You are the last one to call anyone else a hypocrite..."Intense bias"?......please. My argument has and will continue to be the incredible lack of judgement put forth by the individuals who choose to gather in large groups in public ares during a pandemic when the rest of us have had our abilities to live our lives limited by viewpoints from "Experts".
No, you've only complained about ONE group that you happen to disagree with. I have pointed out that they ALL present further spread risk. For some bizarre reason, you choose not to see that so you can keep whining about protests every chance you get. That's your hypocrisy, buddy. Just about everyone is concerned with mass gatherings, EXCEPT you.
but do not ever expect me to listen to this dribble about how one groups rights to assemble supersede another
Nope. The right to protest is protected, and often people do things other people don't like in protest. Whining that entertainment should resume just because there are protests as baseball fails to contain the virus proves DOCV still doens't understand how this virus works or how concerts and sports work. You just want to complain - BLM protests, masks, closed schools - typical self-contradictory complaining without any actual solutions.
For the last time, I have no issue with the Constitutionally protected right to protest, None. My concern is for all of the other activities that are being limited that involve the same basic behaviors, gathering in groups, for whatever reason. The same municipality that decided it was a good idea to BAN going to a park and in the same breath backed that decision with the power of arrest FOR THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC....allows THOUSANDS to congregate in the streets under the pretense of a peaceful protest that on way too many occasions has turned into a violent media covered event.
If you can not see the hypocrisy there.....
For the last time, I have no issue with the Constitutionally protected right to protest, None. My concern is for all of the other activities that are being limited that involve the same basic behaviors, gathering in groups, for whatever reason. The same municipality that decided it was a good idea to BAN going to a park and in the same breath backed that decision with the power of arrest FOR THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC....allows THOUSANDS to congregate in the streets under the pretense of a peaceful protest that on way too many occasions has turned into a violent media covered event.
Oh, so now it's not the protestors, it's the municipalities you take issue with? Jeez, V, which is it? These aren't even the same municipalities involved. Initial responses were different everywhere, just as you championed. And protests weren't organized by Live Nation, they were done by force of will people pissed off that cops murdered some people. If you have no problem with the right to protest, then you should understand that they aren't the same as a baseball game, or a concert, or refusing a police officer's order. That you are still complaining about this when states have re-opened (there's live music and college baseball down the street from me) and cases continue to rise speaks volumes.
For the last time, I have no issue with the Constitutionally protected right to protest, None. My concern is for all of the other activities that are being limited that involve the same basic behaviors, gathering in groups, for whatever reason. The same municipality that decided it was a good idea to BAN going to a park and in the same breath backed that decision with the power of arrest FOR THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC....allows THOUSANDS to congregate in the streets under the pretense of a peaceful protest that on way too many occasions has turned into a violent media covered event.
Oh, so now it's not the protestors, it's the municipalities you take issue with? Jeez, V, which is it? These aren't even the same municipalities involved. Initial responses were different everywhere, just as you championed. And protests weren't organized by Live Nation, they were done by force of will people pissed off that cops murdered some people. If you have no problem with the right to protest, then you should understand that they aren't the same as a baseball game, or a concert, or refusing a police officer's order. That you are still complaining about this when states have re-opened (there's live music and college baseball down the street from me) and cases continue to rise speaks volumes.
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue. The Corona virus is HIGHLY contagious, can we agree on that?
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
last time I checked, the Constitution doesn't guarantee the right to go to a ball game, or concert
or not wear a mask for that matter.
It does guarantee the right for peaceful protests
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue.
So use yours if you have it, and try to understand that a concert is not the same as a protest. Protesting in public spaces is not the same as a limited liability corporation organizing a show at a venue that is subject to local health ordinances and insurance. No one is saying protestors didn't take a big risk cause some spread, just as MLB and the NBA have. But they don't have a Constitutional right to put fans in the stands.
There is live music at some restaurants and some socially distant concerts are being planned at drive-ins across the country. There are attempts to do these activities that everyone wants to do in a safe way. Different industries are affected in different ways, the virus isn't fair. You are welcome to go protest that, just wear a mask, please.
[Edited on 8/3/2020 by porkchopbob]
For the last time, I have no issue with the Constitutionally protected right to protest, None. My concern is for all of the other activities that are being limited that involve the same basic behaviors, gathering in groups, for whatever reason. The same municipality that decided it was a good idea to BAN going to a park and in the same breath backed that decision with the power of arrest FOR THE HEALTH OF THE PUBLIC....allows THOUSANDS to congregate in the streets under the pretense of a peaceful protest that on way too many occasions has turned into a violent media covered event.
Oh, so now it's not the protestors, it's the municipalities you take issue with? Jeez, V, which is it? These aren't even the same municipalities involved. Initial responses were different everywhere, just as you championed. And protests weren't organized by Live Nation, they were done by force of will people pissed off that cops murdered some people. If you have no problem with the right to protest, then you should understand that they aren't the same as a baseball game, or a concert, or refusing a police officer's order. That you are still complaining about this when states have re-opened (there's live music and college baseball down the street from me) and cases continue to rise speaks volumes.
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue. The Corona virus is HIGHLY contagious, can we agree on that?
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
I'm still not convinced that at least some of the surge is not due to the protests. That said, a concert or sporting event (or an indoor presidential rally) puts you inside sitting next to the same people for 3+ hours breathing whatever they are exhaling. Nobody is moving around. You are next to whoever you're next to. Same situation with a church. At an outdoor protest, at least people are moving around and in most cases have some social distance between them. Chances are you're not next to the same person for 3 hours. Do I consider the protests risky? Yes. As risky as a sporting event or concert? No
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue.
So use yours if you have it, and try to understand that a concert is not the same as a protest.
Dude
Protesting in public spaces is not the same as a limited liability corporation organizing a show at a venue that is subject to local health ordinances and insurance. No one is saying protestors didn't take a big risk cause some spread, just as MLB and the NBA have. But they don't have a Constitutional right to put fans in the stands.
Thanks Professor and I will ask this very simple question one more time which I predict you will not choose to answer:
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
just wear a mask, please.
There it is, the left's cure all for the pandemic and if you don't wear one, you are the major reason this virus is "lingering"
just wear a mask, please.
There it is, the left's cure all for the pandemic and if you don't wear one, you are the major reason this virus is "lingering"
Super nope. Medicine and science are not partisan, and masks have never been referred to as a cure. But they help, it's a road to getting past this, otherwise every nurse and doctor would have contracted COVID-19 moths ago. Stop making up your own narratives based on your own prejudices. You can't whine about COVID-19 spread AND disregard the simple recommendations - face coverings to combat airborne viruses is not some bold new theory.
I will ask this very simple question one more time which I predict you will not choose to answer:
Geez dude I did answer your question. But a reminder, this is not a trial. If you have a point to make, summon your mystical powers of snark quotes and voice it.
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue.
So use yours if you have it, and try to understand that a concert is not the same as a protest.
Dude
Protesting in public spaces is not the same as a limited liability corporation organizing a show at a venue that is subject to local health ordinances and insurance. No one is saying protestors didn't take a big risk cause some spread, just as MLB and the NBA have. But they don't have a Constitutional right to put fans in the stands.
Thanks Professor and I will ask this very simple question one more time which I predict you will not choose to answer:
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
just wear a mask, please.
There it is, the left's cure all for the pandemic and if you don't wear one, you are the major reason this virus is "lingering"
If we had 95 percent compliance with masks, we would not be leading the world in infection and death. Like Herman Cain, you are part of the problem.
Pretty tough question...huh?
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue.
So use yours if you have it, and try to understand that a concert is not the same as a protest.
Dude
Protesting in public spaces is not the same as a limited liability corporation organizing a show at a venue that is subject to local health ordinances and insurance. No one is saying protestors didn't take a big risk cause some spread, just as MLB and the NBA have. But they don't have a Constitutional right to put fans in the stands.
Thanks Professor and I will ask this very simple question one more time which I predict you will not choose to answer:
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
just wear a mask, please.
There it is, the left's cure all for the pandemic and if you don't wear one, you are the major reason this virus is "lingering"
If we had 95 percent compliance with masks, we would not be leading the world in infection and death. Like Herman Cain, you are part of the problem.
And the scientists reinforce that daily, but those that know more than the scientists want to do end runs around that and talk about the great testing we've had. You can also throw the anti maskers in the same barrel.
Constitutional rights rock. Common sense is another issue.
So use yours if you have it, and try to understand that a concert is not the same as a protest.
Dude
Protesting in public spaces is not the same as a limited liability corporation organizing a show at a venue that is subject to local health ordinances and insurance. No one is saying protestors didn't take a big risk cause some spread, just as MLB and the NBA have. But they don't have a Constitutional right to put fans in the stands.
Thanks Professor and I will ask this very simple question one more time which I predict you will not choose to answer:
(1) Lots and lots of people at an outdoor protest in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks...
(2) Lots and lots of people at a concert in close proximity and let say for the sake of discussion 70% are wearing masks....
Which event does the virus prefer?
just wear a mask, please.
There it is, the left's cure all for the pandemic and if you don't wear one, you are the major reason this virus is "lingering"
If we had 95 percent compliance with masks, we would not be leading the world in infection and death. Like Herman Cain, you are part of the problem.
And the scientists reinforce that daily, but those that know more than the scientists want to do end runs around that and talk about the great testing we've had. You can also throw the anti maskers in the same barrel.
And Dr. Fauci just suggested Eye goggles could be helpful, now why would he make that public?..."Could be"...Mmmmm is this the next step science might say is needed?...Would you do it?...What might be around the corner?...Ear muffs?
And Dr. Fauci just suggested Eye goggles could be helpful, now why would he make that public?..."Could be"...Mmmmm is this the next step science might say is needed?...Would you do it?...What might be around the corner?...Ear muffs?
Why? He was actually asked, he didn't offer this up (you'd like him, he answers questions). He said "you know, it might", since it's another layer of protection to possible exposure. Something medical health professionals have been using when they can.
Keep sensationalizing and mocking every little sound bite! Nice how you respect Herman Cain's (MS Comp Sci, Purdue) medical recommendations over Dr Fauci's (MD, Cornell). Can't argue with that logic!
And Dr. Fauci just suggested Eye goggles could be helpful, now why would he make that public?..."Could be"...Mmmmm is this the next step science might say is needed?...Would you do it?...What might be around the corner?...Ear muffs?
Why? He was actually asked, he didn't offer this up (you'd like him, he answers questions). He said "you know, it might"
Actually his quote included the word "should"..
"If you have goggles or an eye shield, you should use it”
How long before we see people wearing them and others chastising those who don't?
Actually his quote included the word "should"..
"If you have goggles or an eye shield, you should use it”
Yes, IF you have it. He is not telling you to get one IF you DON'T have one. Not sure what your issue is here.
"Theoretically you should protect all of the mucosal surfaces, so if you have goggles or an eye shield, you should use it.
"It’s not universally recommended, but if you really want to be complete, you should probably use it if you can," he continued.
But one reason that this hasn’t been pushed for the general public yet, he suggested, is because, “it’s so easy for people to just make a cloth mask”
IF you're easily triggered and don't understand how airborne viruses work, you might take issue with this. Feel free to get a 2nd opinion from Herman Cain.
And Dr. Fauci just suggested Eye goggles could be helpful, now why would he make that public?..."Could be"...Mmmmm is this the next step science might say is needed?...Would you do it?...What might be around the corner?...Ear muffs?
Why? He was actually asked, he didn't offer this up (you'd like him, he answers questions). He said "you know, it might", since it's another layer of protection to possible exposure. Something medical health professionals have been using when they can.
Keep sensationalizing and mocking every little sound bite! Nice how you respect Herman Cain's (MS Comp Sci, Purdue) medical recommendations over Dr Fauci's (MD, Cornell). Can't argue with that logic!
Unfortunately having academic degrees and even translating that to a successful professional career take a backseat to practicality and common sense. Those concepts don't necessairly go hand in hand. I thought Cain was a likeable individual, but in the end, the decisons he made were not good to him. This is a sad but avoidable situation.
Unfortunately having academic degrees and even translating that to a successful professional career take a backseat to practicality and common sense.
Example: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
IF you're easily triggered and don't understand how airborne viruses work, you might take issue with this. Feel free to get a 2nd opinion from Herman Cain.
Better idea, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've lived through it? Or, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've tested positive, but have ZERO symptoms? Let's talk about the Nationwide Death toll that now sits at 0.0005%
Your pick.
And please, try to show some growth and expand your vocabulary a bit beyond these leftist, Laughable, P.C. terms like "Triggered"...
Bet you can't
Unfortunately having academic degrees and even translating that to a successful professional career take a backseat to practicality and common sense.
Example: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Oh geez, get some new material. Though it was just a matter of time before you ran out of your usual circular whining and wedged her into this thread. First you defend Herman Cain because he has a degree and now you disregard AOC in spite of her degree? Can you post once without hypocrisy? Bet you can't.
Better idea, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've lived through it? Or, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've tested positive, but have ZERO symptoms? Let's talk about the Nationwide Death toll that now sits at 0.0005%
Your pick.
And please, try to show some growth and expand your vocabulary a bit beyond these leftist, Laughable, P.C. terms like "Triggered"...
Bet you can't
Now you're triggered by the word "trigger". Then stop taking issue with by every clip the FOX News tells you to be upset about. You're the only blindly partisan warrior here.
The US death toll is 158K people. That's a lot of PEOPLE who suffered and died. Some survivors still feel the after effects. You can make that a percentage if it dehumanizes it for you, but the fact is other countries kept their mortality rates lower and their economy stronger during all of this thanks to a centralized plan of action. The US has been rudderless through this, with the exception of Fauci and Birx, and all you can do is mock what he says with your own baseless conjecture. So continue to think you know better than a first year med student, complain without offering alternative solutions except "I want to go to concerts". You continue to be part of he problem.
Unfortunately having academic degrees and even translating that to a successful professional career take a backseat to practicality and common sense.
Example: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Oh geez, get some new material. Though it was just a matter of time before you ran out of your usual circular whining and wedged her into this thread. First you defend Herman Cain because he has a degree and now you disregard AOC in spite of her degree? Can you post once without hypocrisy? Bet you can't.
Better idea, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've lived through it? Or, lets ask the MILLIONS upon MILLIONS who've tested positive, but have ZERO symptoms? Let's talk about the Nationwide Death toll that now sits at 0.0005%
Your pick.
And please, try to show some growth and expand your vocabulary a bit beyond these leftist, Laughable, P.C. terms like "Triggered"...
Bet you can't
Now you're triggered by the word "trigger". Then stop taking issue with by every clip the FOX News tells you to be upset about. You're the only blindly partisan warrior here.
The US death toll is 158K people. That's a lot of PEOPLE who suffered and died. Some survivors still feel the after effects. You can make that a percentage if it dehumanizes it for you, but the fact is other countries kept their mortality rates lower and their economy stronger during all of this thanks to a centralized plan of action. The US has been rudderless through this, with the exception of Fauci and Birx, and all you can do is mock what he says with your own baseless conjecture. So continue to think you know better than a first year med student, complain without offering alternative solutions except "I want to go to concerts". You continue to be part of he problem.
X2
Another point - AOC wasn't foolish enought to attend a Trump Rally like others did who didn't wear masks. She also lives to experience another day of what life offers.
Another point - AOC wasn't foolish enought to attend a Trump Rally like others did who didn't wear masks. She also lives to experience another day of what life offers.
She also respectfully tore Ted Yoho a new one for publicly calling her a name in the Capitol and refusing to apologize. But people who can't handle her opposing opinion choose to discredit her intelligence instead of engaging her ideas.
To get back to the topic & away from semantics, where exactly is the US on re-opening?
Trump has now turned on Birx for saying that the virus is widespread & in rural areas - calling her "pathetic" in a tweet. He says we're doing better than other countries even though those other countries plateaued before re-opening. The US has never plateaued.
So, is the plan for municipalities to decide on their own w/o CDC official numbers that hospitals are now reporting to Trump? Do governors even talk to Trump/Pence anymore? Small businesses have closed never to re-open after their government assistance expired, mostly affecting women & minority business owners. Teachers are refusing to return to buildings but are willing to teach online. MLB can't get in games w/o players getting Covid19. Has Trump's ignoring the pandemic caused us to just patch together whatever our municipalities determine w/no unifying plan?
Another point - AOC wasn't foolish enought to attend a Trump Rally like others did who didn't wear masks. She also lives to experience another day of what life offers.
She also respectfully tore Ted Yoho a new one for publicly calling her a name in the Capitol and refusing to apologize. But people who can't handle her opposing opinion choose to discredit her intelligence instead of engaging her ideas.
And isn't "opposing opinion" the mantra of what we hear complained about daily on this site?
Has Trump's ignoring the pandemic caused us to just patch together whatever our municipalities determine w/no unifying plan?
There is no other choice. This unfortuantely is the default position. Without a top down approach, this is what happens. Look at the the difference in the European approach vs the Trump approach. Then look at the results.
To get back to the topic & away from semantics, where exactly is the US on re-opening?
Well said, cyclone. The whole thing has been bungled here. Letting everyone choose their own adventure, from county-to-county, ignores how the virus and people travel. There needed to be a centralized plan rather than the contradictory feed we got from a President who didn't think it was his responsibility. Obviously a President isn't going to know the science, but there needed to be a unified message. Other than CA, the US never really locked down, and the attempts to alleviate the financial burden have been a joke, leaving small businesses out to dry. It's all half measures. All we can do is wear masks, be safe, and hope the numbers go down.
The financial fallout is going to be huge and I don't think we've felt it yet since some businesses have been able to linger. Urban commercial areas that were blighted just 10 years ago are back to empty store fronts. Banks that quickly moved in to closed mom & pop shops when the rent increased a decade ago have shuttered their doors in huge numbers. If banks can't pay the rent, who can? There's going to have to be some major financial assistance to recovery.
Has Trump's ignoring the pandemic caused us to just patch together whatever our municipalities determine w/no unifying plan?
There is no other choice. This unfortuantely is the default position. Without a top down approach, this is what happens. Look at the the difference in the European approach vs the Trump approach. Then look at the results.
The weakest of the herd will drag us down. So long as there is a state that can't get its house in order, there will be flare ups.
Unfortunately having academic degrees and even translating that to a successful professional career take a backseat to practicality and common sense.
Example: Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Oh geez, get some new material. Though it was just a matter of time before you ran out of your usual circular whining and wedged her into this thread. First you defend Herman Cain because he has a degree and now you disregard AOC in spite of her degree? Can you post once without hypocrisy? Bet you can't.
Read the quote again pertaining to degrees and common sense. You feel that has everything to do with Dr.Cain's actions involving his having attended Trump's rally. Fair enough, I disagree, but fair enough. I feel that quote is relevant to AOC' s day to day life. No hypocrisy at all, just a different application of the same quote. Once again placing on full display your inability to accept that there are opinions out there that differ from yours.
Read the quote again pertaining to degrees and common sense. You feel that has everything to do with Dr.Cain's actions involving his having attended Trump's rally. Fair enough, I disagree, but fair enough. I feel that quote is relevant to AOC' s day to day life. No hypocrisy at all, just a different application of the same quote. Once again placing on full display your inability to accept that there are opinions out there that differ from yours.
First, a Master's of Science (MS) in Computer Science doesn't make Herman Cain a Doctor. It's a Master's degree. He was awarded an honorary Doctorate in Comp Sci from Purdue, which also does not make him a "Dr".
I don't understand what you think I "feel" about Herman Cain's "actions involving his having attended" - what does that even mean? I don't think his degrees have anything to do with his decision to attend the rally without a mask, you brought that up.
I can accept your opinions just fine, but whatever you think of AOC's "daily life" is not an opinion. It's a petty cheap shot that is irrelevant here and contradicts your stated views on higher ed. Keep saying everyone with whom you disagree is "unable" to accept other opinions rather than defending your opinion if it's easier for you.
[Edited on 8/4/2020 by porkchopbob]
The “you can’t handle another opinion” thing is just pure projection at this point.
The financial fallout is going to be huge and I don't think we've felt it yet since some businesses have been able to linger. Urban commercial areas that were blighted just 10 years ago are back to empty store fronts. Banks that quickly moved in to closed mom & pop shops when the rent increased a decade ago have shuttered their doors in huge numbers. If banks can't pay the rent, who can? There's going to have to be some major financial assistance to recovery.
Absolutely. This is one thing that Trump foresees - real estate worldwide is going to tank big time & the lenders, paper holders, and investment banks are going to take massive hits. It's one thing when the 3 largest tenants in NYC pay the penalty & have early terminations of their leases because they've discovered it's more efficient & cost effective to have employees working remotely. That's just one side - contraction in office space.
Landlords & homeowners are used to thinking it's a seller's market. Not so fast. If people aren't working, they're not going to afford rent/mortgages. Already, there are trends from cities to the ex-urbs for those who still have jobs but work remotely.
Retail was already dying & now, w/the closing of the small businesses that were tenants of shopping centers, stand-alones, and even major malls are officially shuttering them. Think of the small real estate investors as well as the biggest mall owners who suddenly have empty property w/no prospects. How do you re-use/adapt a mall at such a high rate that it's going to cover the mortgage?
When Trump says "back to work," he doesn't mean it. He means "back in the office" & shove the kids in school so the parents can occupy office space. Get them traveling to stay in hotels.
