And GOP Congreeman Louie Gohmert, another anti masker was just daignosed as positive.

Are there cases where people wore masks religiously and tested positive?

I am guessing there are.

And GOP Congreeman Louie Gohmert, another anti masker was just daignosed as positive.

Are there cases where people wore masks religiously and tested positive?

I am guessing there are.

Yes, some health care providers who were repeatedly exposed still contracted it. But some people wear seat belts and still die in car wrecks. Some people wear condoms and still get STDs or pregnant. Figure it out, it's really simple.

yes
the risk of contracting the disease is related to duration of exposure and intensity of exposure, ie someone coughing in your face vs just breathing.

The HCW I'm aware of were wearing masks with prolonged exposure, ie in a procedure for more than 1 hour. The patient was not wearing a mask.

Since then hospitals have been requiring everyone to wear masks (at least in New England). All patients wear masks during procedures. That wasn't the case when this first started.

Wearing masks helps the other person as much as you.

edit to add - since the local hospitals are requiring everyone to wear masks, perform testing before procedures, and increase use of N95 in high risk settings, transmission to HCW is near zero

[Edited on 7/30/2020 by stormyrider]

Figure it out, it's really simple.

You still have not answered the question posed.

Yes or No. "Do most States have restrictions in place in regard to groups of people gathering"?

Figure it out, it's really simple.

You still have not answered the question posed.

Yes or No. "Do most States have restrictions in place in regard to groups of people gathering"?

Because I don't care about your stupid question.

If you have a point, go ahead and make it. If you have a question, look up the answer for yourself.

Figure it out, it's really simple.

You still have not answered the question posed.

Yes or No. "Do most States have restrictions in place in regard to groups of people gathering"?

Because I don't care about your stupid question.

If you have a point, go ahead and make it. If you have a question, look up the answer for yourself.

Oh, I have and I am going to venture a guess that you have as well. See all 50 states have some sort of regulation in place concerning large "gatherings". For some it's capacity, others it's a limit on the amount of people who can be in one space or area at one time.

Would a peaceful protest be considered a "Gathering"? For example, in Minnesota, Democratic Gov. Tim Walz allowed "outdoor gatherings" of up to 25 people. Is this not the same state that asked for Federal assistance after "peaceful protesters", rioters and looters were responsible for over 500 Million dollars in damage?..Was all of this done by "peaceful protesters" who had assembled in gatherings of 25 or less? The estimate is that as many as 20 Million have participated in these "Peaceful gatherings" resulting in almost 10,000 arrests and costs that may exceed astronomical totals. Funny how most of this took place in blue states and also proceeded to require the deployment of 4,000 National Guardsmen.

Tip of the iceberg. No, tell us all one more time how "Peaceful Protests" were not as responsible for the increase of cases of Covid19. Tell us again how a Political Rally is just as bad. Explain why these "Gatherings" were not stopped. And then, you can explain the importance of wearing a mask while shopping at Wal-Mart.

Why would anyone want to respond to your continued beating of a dead horse - people have responded numerous times and you still don't want to get it.

There is a difference between being outside and moving and wearing a mask (like most of the protests I have seen) and being inside close together without masks screaming for the orange man to successfully drink water. If you can't see the difference, you are just being obtuse.

My friend got his test results back 2.5 days after his test. Negative. Hard to believe, he has so many symptoms of covid...and considering where he recently was (Myrtle Beach)...but I guess negative is negative.

My wife and I went out to eat tonight at one of our favorite spots. There were 5 of 6 outside tables open. It was only our second time going out to eat since Coronavirus started. She liked it quite a bit...she doesn't get out much other than to our kids houses to do the typical close-nit family stuff. I atleast get over to the shop on a regular basis.

Our governor wants to implement a 10pm last call for bars to try and curb gathering and potential spread in those locations. He can't just do it on his own so we'll have to see how that approval goes through.

We are adding 23 cases a day in my county, still below our spring peak. Statewide we are adding 1300+ cases a day, that is double what our 14 and 21 day rolling averages were in the spring.

Ohio does have a gathering limitation of 10 people, but it has exceptions that effectively make it useless (weddings, funerals, church service, protests)...if you allow all of those things...what is the point of having a 10 person gathering limitation? State fairs are closed down except for junior fairs with no general population admittance.

One area where America will indeed be reopening w/a bang
.....lawyers
reason, current headline

“First Wave Of Covid-19 Lawsuits Filed By Families Against Companies In Worker Deaths” (WSJrnl)

current death count, 151,000, expected to hit 250,000 by fall
....during a campaign - yes it will be a stormy two post-Labor Day months

Leading up to Election Day & God only know what that will bring, besides a recount

America as we know it is fast-disappearing my friends
That’s my apolitical observation/proclamation/Hijack for the day:o 😛

Oh, about the masks in recent posts
Bernie Sanders wants to raise funds for free masks for all

Oh, about the masks in recent posts
Bernie Sanders wants to raise funds for free masks for all

Make those free masks in the USA and I'll support that initiative and proudly pay for it with my tax dollars.

One of my wife's friends saw a woman in a store without a mask. She politely went up to her and said "ma'am, if you would like a mask I have an extra one" which was met with a "F--- You!". Some people really don't like masks.

Oh, about the masks in recent posts
Bernie Sanders wants to raise funds for free masks for all

Make those free masks in the USA and I'll support that initiative and proudly pay for it with my tax dollars.

One of my wife's friends saw a woman in a store without a mask. She politely went up to her and said "ma'am, if you would like a mask I have an extra one" which was met with a "F--- You!". Some people really don't like masks.

Masks are a touchy thing with people. Being in NY I understand how bad it can get. Someone I work with is Covid positive [past infection], she got it in Miami. She is not in every day, but when she is I mask all day. Other times in the office maybe I let it slide till last week when my bosses grandson was playing with a friend two little boys 6 yrs old, the other kid got really sick that night with a 102 fever, covid positive. My office is shared with someone who works with Covid patients on his other job. We both stay masked when he is in the office suite. It is all around, and Covid can kill you.

Wash hands, wear a mask. When I see someone not masked I tell them I am a health care worker, one of our nurses works in a covid unit, please for your own safety, please wear a mask and do social distancing.

The disease is real.

[Edited on 7/31/2020 by gina]

Oh, about the masks in recent posts
Bernie Sanders wants to raise funds for free masks for all

Make those free masks in the USA and I'll support that initiative and proudly pay for it with my tax dollars.

One of my wife's friends saw a woman in a store without a mask. She politely went up to her and said "ma'am, if you would like a mask I have an extra one" which was met with a "F--- You!". Some people really don't like masks.

Nebish, I stopped at Walmart today and the outside greeter, a BIG, Tall, guy, made sure that those who came by without a mask were offered one for free, while pointing at the "Mask Required" sign.
Nobody walked past him without a mask.

It is all around, and Covid can kill you. The disease is real.

A lot like cancer, you contract it w/out knowing, then the next thing you know, too late

....”God bless you” has given way to bad looks & people quickly moving away - b/c of a sneeze
I understand, it’s the new normal

Pneumonia, bronchitis, chest colds, strep throat, laryngitis, stuffy nose.....you really felt bad w/that stuff - covid & cancer don’t give you that chance

[Edited on 7/31/2020 by Stephen]

 

Masks are a touchy thing with people. Being in NY I understand how bad it can get.

The etiquette columnist in today's NYT answered questions about how to politely ask those around us to wear masks. Before responding, he did a test run. 3 different places & genders/ages. He's a well-dressed lawyer in his 50s & was careful to be polite (he writes a column on manners). Struck out all 3 times - a market, dog run where people are close, & post office line. His advice - don't bother. People can't or won't understand that wearing a mask protects US from THEM. They don't care if they make someone sick. Selfish doesn't respond to polite.

I've been to restaurants, stores, synagogue, & a hair stylist where people w/o masks are denied entry by a security guard. Seems like a better solution than expecting a $7/hr cashier to enforce the policy & get grief from a hostile customer or calling the police only to escalate the situation.

I have a friend who works at Walmart. They do have signage about mask requirements (on top of many states already having them) and they do have workers offering masks at the entrance, but Walmart employees are instructed to avoid conflict or any potential physical confrontation at all costs and a shopper denying a mask will be allowed to enter the store despite company and state policy to the contrary. Some stores might have third party security, which I think is probably uncommon at most locations, but for sure Walmart staff will not block people from entering the store without a mask.

What would BigV do if asked to wear a mask to enter a business?

I have a friend who works at Walmart. They do have signage about mask requirements (on top of many states already having them) and they do have workers offering masks at the entrance, but Walmart employees are instructed to avoid conflict or any potential physical confrontation at all costs and a shopper denying a mask will be allowed to enter the store despite company and state policy to the contrary. Some stores might have third party security, which I think is probably uncommon at most locations, but for sure Walmart staff will not block people from entering the store without a mask.

What would BigV do if asked to wear a mask to enter a business?

If I want to shop there, I put on a mask. Pretty simple, arguing or making a scene at/with a private business goes against the grain for me. Pick and choose your battles. I will say this, as long as I can social distance outside, I don't wear a mask.

If I want to shop there, I put on a mask. Pretty simple, arguing or making a scene at/with a private business goes against the grain for me. Pick and choose your battles. I will say this, as long as I can social distance outside, I don't wear a mask.

Which is exactly what everyone should be doing!

Tip of the iceberg. No, tell us all one more time how "Peaceful Protests" were not as responsible for the increase of cases of Covid19. Tell us again how a Political Rally is just as bad. Explain why these "Gatherings" were not stopped. And then, you can explain the importance of wearing a mask while shopping at Wal-Mart.

I have actually posted several articles that use data and tracking to determine what is causing the rise in cases in some states. I will stick with their findings rather than your incredibly biased conjecture. No one has argued the protesting didn't cause some COVID spread. However, you are the only one who repeatedly ignores all of the other factors as states attempted to re-open this Summer. Here in south Florida people are out, the state has essentially reopened except for schools and bars, mask mandates are being often ignored, and cases are soaring. In most places, protests have waned significantly in the past months, yet cases increase. But you hate the protestors, even those who did so peacefully and safely, so this is your reality. So we get it. Herman Cain was killed by protestors. You are starting to sound like the blackey of anti-protestors, a broken record. Your unsupported theory doesn't need to repeatedly bleed into every single thread. Can we at least talk baseball without your anti-protestor snark?

But you hate the protestors, even those who did so peacefully and safely, so this is your reality.

I do not hate anyone. By judgement only, I feel protesting in huge crowds during the time of a pandemic when people are screaming about masks is very, very selfish behavior.

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Germs within spittle - do not know or care exactly what type of function that they're being spewed and exchanged at. They do not differentiate between rallys, protests, ballgames or bars and restaurants - PERIOD.

I'm not trying to agree or disagree with anybody on this - except perhaps, SCIENTISTS.

Distance + masks = basic, human freakin' common sense.

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Because protesting is protected by the Constitution, watching a ball game in person is not. Protesting is being done in public places, they aren't going through the same gate to enter and using the same bathroom facilities. There aren't concession exchanging hands. There isn't liability for major corporations. They aren't the same thing.

Masks are a touchy thing with people. Being in NY I understand how bad it can get.

The etiquette columnist in today's NYT answered questions about how to politely ask those around us to wear masks. Before responding, he did a test run. 3 different places & genders/ages. He's a well-dressed lawyer in his 50s & was careful to be polite (he writes a column on manners). Struck out all 3 times - a market, dog run where people are close, & post office line. His advice - don't bother. People can't or won't understand that wearing a mask protects US from THEM. They don't care if they make someone sick. Selfish doesn't respond to polite.

I've been to restaurants, stores, synagogue, & a hair stylist where people w/o masks are denied entry by a security guard. Seems like a better solution than expecting a $7/hr cashier to enforce the policy & get grief from a hostile customer or calling the police only to escalate the situation.

I've said before that if you are someplace and a person keeps getting too close to you, ask them to back away. If they start fussing, get in your face, and threaten you, pull out your can of disinfectant spray and make a verbal contract with them. Come too close and you get sprayed, stay back and you don't get sprayed. Simple enough?

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Because protesting is protected by the Constitution, watching a ball game in person is not. Protesting is being done in public places, they aren't going through the same gate to enter and using the same bathroom facilities. There aren't concession exchanging hands. There isn't liability for major corporations. They aren't the same thing.

So, corona/covid germs cannot live in designated protest areas? Is this what I'm hearing?

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Because protesting is protected by the Constitution, watching a ball game in person is not. Protesting is being done in public places, they aren't going through the same gate to enter and using the same bathroom facilities. There aren't concession exchanging hands. There isn't liability for major corporations. They aren't the same thing.

So, corona/covid germs cannot live in designated protest areas? Is this what I'm hearing?

Uh, no, the virus obviously can be anywhere people are present. But just because people exercised their Constitutional rights to protest in spite of a pandemic (and have been met with force when out of hand) doesn't automatically open the door for live entertainment. It's a Venn diagram - similar in some ways, but still different.

[Edited on 7/31/2020 by porkchopbob]

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Because protesting is protected by the Constitution, watching a ball game in person is not. Protesting is being done in public places, they aren't going through the same gate to enter and using the same bathroom facilities. There aren't concession exchanging hands. There isn't liability for major corporations. They aren't the same thing.

So, corona/covid germs cannot live in designated protest areas? Is this what I'm hearing?

Uh, no, the virus obviously can be anywhere people are present. But just because people exercised their Constitutional rights to protest n spite of a ipandemic (and have been met with force when out of hand) doesn't automatically open the door for live entertainment. It's a Venn diagram - similar in some ways, but still different.

See this is the issue I have with your argument and will continue to raise my objection.

Either this Virus is a killer, or it is NOT. You can NOT have it both ways. You can NOT quote the Constitution for THIS but not for that...That is not how it works. Either you are for stopping this virus, all the time everywhere, or you are not. If it is a killer, there are no exceptions.

In spite of a pandemic

OMG

If people can protest "safely"...Why can we not attend sporting events and concerts ..."Safely"?

Because protesting is protected by the Constitution, watching a ball game in person is not. Protesting is being done in public places, they aren't going through the same gate to enter and using the same bathroom facilities. There aren't concession exchanging hands. There isn't liability for major corporations. They aren't the same thing.

So, corona/covid germs cannot live in designated protest areas? Is this what I'm hearing?

Uh, no, the virus obviously can be anywhere people are present. But just because people exercised their Constitutional rights to protest in spite of a pandemic (and have been met with force when out of hand) doesn't automatically open the door for live entertainment. It's a Venn diagram - similar in some ways, but still different.

Constitutional Rights is now your defense for "Peaceful Protesting"?...... Do you remember the thread about the woman being arrested for taking her kids to the playground? Did she have a constitutional right to go to a playground?... I certainly did. What was your argument there?... It was stupid?..You argued common sense and safety, remember that? Here are some gems from you...

Exactly, clearly a stunt intended to bait. Is playing in parks while people suffer and die really the hill you want to die on, BIGV? Sure, there's a disparity in the degree to which some areas are affected, but that's merely a luxury of time.

Is marching in the streets while people suffer and die really the hill you want to die on?

The issue is places where people congregate - bars, churches, parks, stadiums, theaters, etc. California had a lock down after they got hit hard with COVID cases before they even knew it. Other areas less densely populated are trying to be preventative so they don't have to be as aggressive in their response. It's really not that much to ask that you stay away from a park. Most people aren't taking their kids out of the house if they don't have to, these rules are often made for the dumbest or least responsible (like anti-vacc'ers). Because if everyone ignored them and went to the beach or the park, then you have an issue. Also, it protects park employees.

The issue is places where people congregate ... It's really not that much to ask that you stay away from a protest

Nope, it's not partisan nor is it about interfering with rights, you've missed the entire point. It's about how some people think rules don't apply to them. If everyone went to the park (or beach, or theater) because they wanted to, you'd have an increased chance of spreading a deadly virus. For most people, that is super obvious, but some people do whatever they want to do regardless if it's safe or smart or because they are just a dick, so we have to write the rule down for them (like the Republican Gov or Idaho did in this case). That's where laws come from, even the basic ones like "don't kill". Seems obvious, right? But it's a law. Look it up.

Does the above apply to "peaceful protesting"?

If everyone went to the park (or beach, or theater) because they wanted to, you'd have an increased chance of spreading a deadly virus.

If EVERYONE WENT TO THE PARK?..or a protest

you'd have an increased chance of spreading a deadly virus

Does this "deadly Virus" steer clear of protests?

UPDATE: I made a quick run to the market the other day and a guy waiting outside the door says too me, "there's a line to get in because of the fake virus." Nice luxury to have, disbelieving reality completely, considering all of the death and pain this virus has caused. So yeah, some rules are aimed directly at the stupids.

Wow, look at that!...You have admitted that this virus is a KILLER, (TWICE) unless you are "protesting peacefully"

Wow you really want to go to the park, huh?

How is this different than "want" to march in the streets?..One WOMAN vs, THOUSANDS

The fact that we don't know for certain that you can't get it more than once only furthers the case for more strict social distancing. If anything, the death tolls and number of reported cases are probably lower than the truth since some people are asymptomatic, or got before people were really aware they were in danger of being exposed to COVID. Experts are using a lot of evidence and data, based on similar previous viruses. But if you want to insist that the world is flat until you walk around it yourself, be my guest.

I wonder what the "experts" think the result of protesting has been? Dr Fauci stated that "Gatherings of big groups of people is not a good idea"

If a public park is closed by order of the Governor, you don't have the right to go into the park.

You can close a park and arrest a woman, but tens of thousands can march....Were they stupid?

Nope, it's that I already covered this - it is in regards to being in close proximity to other people. You just don't understand the intended purpose of some of the restrictions, and that they don't all have to be relative to each other - some of it is dependent on resources, priority, and ability to enforce. Not everything must be comparable. I thought it was ridiculous that golf courses were open here, but I'm not going to go throw a tantrum because it contradicts my desire to go for a hike.

But interfere with your desire to gather in the streets... (But it's OK. most wore masks, right)

The social distancing has actually been effective in almost all regions.

Social distancing was practiced at "most of these "peaceful protests"?...I mean the experts are preaching this right?

And the reference to "rights" is because some rights are limited when safety is a concern

Why wasn't protesting limited?

Hypocrisy at its finest, straight from the horses mouth

V, take a pill. You are blinded by your BLM bias, it's clear. And you choose to ignore half of what I ever say and presume more (you are the KING of straw men) in order to repeat your dumb "BUT PROTESTS" rhetoric. You refuse to read evidence and articles that refute what you insist on believing. The way you mischaracterize facts makes it clear you're bending the situation to fit you massive bias. No one is going to try to change your mind, we get it.

Constitutional Rights is now your defense for "Peaceful Protesting"?...... Do you remember the thread about the woman being arrested for taking her kids to the playground? Did she have a constitutional right to go to a playground?...

Jeez, this again? Ok. She DID NOT have the right. Show me where you have a Constitutional right to a public swing set. That park was closed and she refused the order of a cop (I thought you supported the cops? Oh right, only when it's convenient for you). Protestors were massive groups that were still met with force when possible or necessary. Also, as you repeatedly said regarding enforcement across the nation - not all situations are the same. But now you want it to be the same - your repeated anti-protest tantrums are the biggest hypocrisy. You disagree with what they are protesting, but not the anti-mask protestors or armed white folks protesting in capitols. Way to cherry pick there, buddy!

Is marching in the streets while people suffer and die really the hill you want to die on?

Do you mean while black people suffer and die at the hands of racist cops? There can be TWO issues going on at the same time that unfortunately contradict each other. The world isn't relative. But also I've repeatedly said the protests don't help keeping COVID from spreading. Your whole dumb argument is based on a bizarre presumption that you repeat so often you think it's true. Stop doing that.

The issue is places where people congregate ... It's really not that much to ask that you stay away from a protest

Yeah, you can ask and hope people would. But also people can protest, especially if they are safe about it. Doesn't really matter when states have reopened. People are eating at restaurants and hanging out at the beach.

Wow, look at that!...You have admitted that this virus is a KILLER, (TWICE) unless you are "protesting peacefully"

That is not at all what was said, but it's telling how over-simplified your interpretation is. Protesting peacefully is still a risk people decided to take. But you can only handle one issue at a time.

Why wasn't protesting limited?

It was in many places. Is there a point here? Other than that you don't like BLM protests? This is an interesting window into your biased mind, but none of it really holds any water. It's just sarcasm based on ignorance.

You're frustrated and upset, it can be confusing. Not every issue is the same (as you once pointed out when it was convenient for you). But you can't just whine "but what about the protests" to everything people say - it's not an argument. You have no point here, sarcasm and rhetorical questions might make sense to you, but they are not an argument. You're just complaining that there are protests, without seeing them in any context and ignoring half the facts. You continue to sound like you don't know what you are talking about and repeatedly use straw men in order to continue your tantrums. It's tired, and most protests have been over for a while while restaurants and public places have been open, which you're fine (again, very hypocritical). Move on, find another boogey man, get a new axe to grind, get your facts straight. You just sound like an old man shaking his fist at a cloud.

Either this Virus is a killer, or it is NOT. You can NOT have it both ways. You can NOT quote the Constitution for THIS but not for that...That is not how it works. Either you are for stopping this virus, all the time everywhere, or you are not. If it is a killer, there are no exceptions.

Nope, not quite.

COVID-19 can kill and has done so. But the Constitution still exists. I may not agree with people exercising their rights, be it BLM protesters or your mom in Montana or the anti-maskers or the yokels at the OH capitol, but they all chose to do so at the risk of being arrested. Some were arrested, in some cases there were too many and attempting to arrest everyone would be impossible or make the situation even worse. Not every situation is the same.

Your problem here is you are confusing what is legal with opinion. You're asking for absolutism towards BLM protests, when rules and recommendations were wildly different from state to state, or even city to city, as were the responses. You're characterizing them all as the same. Meanwhile, you disagree with BLM, but you support your mom in Montana at the playground - do just white people get to protest?

Your other issue is that you insist am driving protestors to the front lines for some bizarre reason, even though I have repeated to you that I'd prefer people stayed home because of COVID-19. However, if people want to protest - anti-maskers, BLM, your mom in Montana - they can leave the house and walk the streets to voice their opinion and risk a fine or even arrest. Only a few states had mass lock downs, you could still leave the house and walk outside.

Your other problem is you have such tunnel vision that you don't object to anything else that can cause the spread of the virus. You only object to BLM protests because of your intense bias against them. You don't object to any other protests or types of gatherings, which are happening more and more casually across the nation. That is your hypocrisy.

You only object to BLM protests because of your intense bias against them. You don't object to any other protests or types of gatherings, which are happening more and more casually across the nation. That is your hypocrisy.

Haha!....You are the last one to call anyone else a hypocrite..."Intense bias"?......please. My argument has and will continue to be the incredible lack of judgement put forth by the individuals who choose to gather in large groups in public ares during a pandemic when the rest of us have had our abilities to live our lives limited by viewpoints from "Experts". No one is questioning their right to do so, just the insanity behind thinking it's OK for this group of individuals and not that one. Rationalize this all you want, 'till your hearts content, but do not ever expect me to listen to this dribble about how one groups rights to assemble supersede another..... "Peaceful Protests" that have on way too many occasions morphed into violence are defended under the context of constitutional rights, while being told that other gatherings place people in danger of contacting and spreading the "Killer virus", is the epitome of hypocrisy.

I can see both sides to the argument.
Why are people allowed to be in large groups to protest, but we can't go to church, have a family reunion, go to an outdoor concert, and many other things we actually want to do.
There is the right to protest. If you've been on these forums for a while you know how I am about the Constitution.
There is also the right of people to not have a crowd of possibly infections protesters in their area.

If there continue to be large protests, hold them in an outdoor setting away from a populated area. Say a 100 acre field outside of a populated area. There are enough closed Walmarts, KMarts, and now some abandoned malls with huge parking lots where the protests could be held, as long as it's kept to that location.
There would have to be the rules of social distancing and mask wearing in the permit.
Media coverage could be actually better with the fixed location, and amenities such as port-a-potties, water stations, medical emergency facilities, food donation sites, and other basic needs could be set up.
If a large protest is forced into a populated area, the participants could face charges of not following the permit guidelines.

We have had small protests in towns as small as Byron. Everyone wore a mask, kept a distance from each other, and spoke through a portable sound system. They marched through town in the middle of the street, away from the bystanders.