And here's another liberal gem while I am at it. I love the Pro-Abortion chant "My body, my choice"....Does this apply to the wearing of masks?
no, it doesn't apply to masks. Masks protect other people.
If you are by yourself on a trail or in the street, fine.
But if you are in a store, breathing on items etc, you are affecting other people.
Personal freedom implies that your choices aren't harming others.
And yet another huge chunk of the Union written off in a one-liner
Just California and New York, Lived in California most of my and finally got out. Taxes and laws for everything, both of these states are the home of the mantra, "Well, we have to do something because doing something certainly looks better than doing nothing". Too much Government, too many people and taxes on everything but the air you breath.
Gavin Newsom and Eric Garcetti are f'n delusional morons. And I have voted Democrat all my life. But no more.
Different poster, but I agree with his decision and assessment. Both of these gents are the epitome of confusing "leadership" with the feeling that their fingerprints have to be on everything. Imagine arresting windsurfers while releasing criminals from jail because of overcrowding. "Let's put ocean goers into the same cells that were just inhabited by a criminal"....Genius.
California and New York, no thank you.
And here's another liberal gem while I am at it. I love the Pro-Abortion chant "My body, my choice"....Does this apply to the wearing of masks?
You could infect and possibly kill someone or several people with your careless attitude, how does this relate to abortion?.
Dude I have lost all respect for you with your comment of "I hope you lose everything"..Take a hike
Dude I have no respect for YOU, for your support trump and his agenda of destroying this country, I hope YOU suffer for your choices.
You remain a real class act.
Personal freedom implies that your choices aren't harming others.
Interesting choice of words there: "Implies" as in "Strongly suggests".
May I suggest that you come up with absolutely irrefutable scientific proof that NOT wearing a mask "harms others" before I give up any of my rights that may only suppress or eliminate your fears.
Personal freedom implies that your choices aren't harming others.
Interesting choice of words there: "Implies" as in "Strongly suggests".
May I suggest that you come up with absolutely irrefutable scientific proof that NOT wearing a mask "harms others" before I give up any of my rights that may only suppress or eliminate your fears.
I was just reading my copy of the Constitution, and for the life of me I couldn't find anywhere any mention of having the right to not have to wear a mask. Can you please direct me to where I can find that right in the Constitution?
Personal freedom implies that your choices aren't harming others.
Interesting choice of words there: "Implies" as in "Strongly suggests".
May I suggest that you come up with absolutely irrefutable scientific proof that NOT wearing a mask "harms others" before I give up any of my rights that may only suppress or eliminate your fears.
Vince, I agree with you damn near all the time but, as I may have said earlier, not here.
Let me ask you this, and mind you, I'm not concerned all that much, just mildly curious, after all, you do you and I'll do me...
Are you not wearing a mask BC it's your right not to, a, b, there's no proof it works aside from alleviating fear and paranoia, c, the whole mess is overblown by the media. .or some other reason?
In all this time, what, 8, 10 weeks? I haven't asked one person why they don't wear one. You may have answered definitively prior but I missed it.
Thanks 
Personal freedom implies that your choices aren't harming others.
Interesting choice of words there: "Implies" as in "Strongly suggests".
May I suggest that you come up with absolutely irrefutable scientific proof that NOT wearing a mask "harms others" before I give up any of my rights that may only suppress or eliminate your fears.
Vince, I agree with you damn near all the time but, as I may have said earlier, not here.
Let me ask you this, and mind you, I'm not concerned all that much, just mildly curious, after all, you do you and I'll do me...
Are you not wearing a mask BC it's your right not to, a, b, there's no proof it works aside from alleviating fear and paranoia, c, the whole mess is overblown by the media. .or some other reason?
In all this time, what, 8, 10 weeks? I haven't asked one person why they don't wear one. You may have answered definitively prior but I missed it.
Thanks
No worries and your answer is right there "there's no proof it works aside from alleviating fear and paranoia,... the whole mess is overblown by the media". Both of these. If the only effect from wearing a mask is "alleviating fear" then the media has won and we've all lost. Everyday is Halloween! But, I will add, I certainly respect the social distancing requests and practice that....
There's a lot of noise in this thread. We have 2 really good sources of information on this site (cyclone & stormyrider). Their jobs & specilizations are certainly closer subject matter experts than the rest of the "specialists" on this topic. I'll defer to these 2 posters. Thanks to the 2 of you for your input and clarifications.
Save your fight for the vaccines that are being rushed through and wll be forced upon us without adequate testing. Then you may well find me in your corner, assuming your stand on rights includes vaccination. The vaccine stuff is going to be some serious controversy - this mask business is nothing compared to what is coming.
I'm actually concerned also.
Because of the rush, are dangers going to be overlooked in the to push this thing out and mass vaccinate everyone? It's going to have to come out in stages, so the first ones to get it will provide some further evidence of it's safety and effectiveness.
I really don't like to take medicine for anything, 9 times out of 10 I just deal with whatever. I got a flu shot one year and got sick twice that winter. Maybe not related, but I've never had another flu shot since.
I would want to get this vaccine, but really, I want to see how it goes first. I totally share your thoughts BrerRabbit.
There's a lot of noise in this thread. We have 2 really good sources of information on this site (cyclone & stormyrider). Their jobs & specilizations are certainly closer subject matter experts than the rest of the "specialists" on this topic. I'll defer to these 2 posters. Thanks to the 2 of you for your input and clarifications.
The entire time I was reading the last 2 pages of this thread, I kept thinking "stormyrider has explained the importance of masks earlier so why on earth are people demanding scientific facts?" Of course, I realize that the scientific fact has to come from a source acceptable to the questioner & then the provider of the source has to be interrogated as though they were defending a PhD dissertation, but I don't think we're going to get a more solid source than a practicing cardiologist.
Thanks, Martin, for your confidence, but we all have opinions. I participate in threads I find interesting or in which I might be able to clarify something or start topics that interest me (I'm fairly certain I'm the only one who really cared about impeachment - the process not the outcome). I have expertise in a couple of areas & point it out when it's relevant, but don't expect anyone to defer to me. I look forward to stormyrider's posts on many topics & appreciate his willingness to explain medicalese in basic language.
Most of us have expertise in something - a lot of us ABB followers from the 1970s have been working for a long time - so I weigh their comments more heavily than others. I also just skip comments from lazy noisemakers who can't be bothered to look up the most basic things & I appreciate the jokes in an attempt to lighten up or deflect the nasty place the thread is headed.
Mostly, I post my opinions. On the topic of masks, for the life of me, I don't know what the downside of wearing one around people not living in our households is. Presumably, the goal for all of us is to survive COVID19, make our way out into the world (although there's not much open yet in NYC), & eventually be rid of this infectious disease. If wearing a mask is useful, why not do it?
Thanks Martin for your posts about the market/economy & amazing musical knowledge. I defer to you, but I don't understand why anyone thinks GA was taking the lead in jump-starting the national economy by opening tattoo parlors, beach shops, & patio restaurants at 50% capacity. I can't imagine why anyone other than seasonal business owners would go to the expense of opening when their laid off employees are getting unemployment benefits (some at even higher rates than their former salaries) & rent is forgiven through July 31 when they have no guarantee patrons are ready to return. That's a whole thread!!!
There's a lot of noise in this thread. We have 2 really good sources of information on this site (cyclone & stormyrider). Their jobs & specilizations are certainly closer subject matter experts than the rest of the "specialists" on this topic. I'll defer to these 2 posters. Thanks to the 2 of you for your input and clarifications.
What...no gina?
Seriously though, with all respect to those two (much deserved), whose posts I pay attention to, I defer to my PCP and cardiologist. I mean, who doesn't?
In the end, wearing one or not is a choice.
INteresting. Will see where it goes.
INteresting. Will see where it goes.
yes
Florida and Texas have clearly increased since re-opening.and this, from the article
In a sign, perhaps, of things to come, churches in both Texas and Georgia that briefly reopened for in-person worship services have had to close again as the virus spread in their pews. Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston closed after five leaders tested positive last weekend, following the death of one priest who had been diagnosed with pneumonia. In Ringgold, Ga., Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle started in-person services again in late April but stopped on May 11 after learning that members of several families had contracted the virus. And on Tuesday the CDC released a report about an outbreak in March at a rural Arkansas church: Of the 92 people who attended the church between March 6 and March 11, 35 tested positive and three died, the report said. Investigators found that 26 other contacts of these churchgoers later tested positive and one died.
INteresting. Will see where it goes.
yes
Florida and Texas have clearly increased since re-opening.and this, from the article
In a sign, perhaps, of things to come, churches in both Texas and Georgia that briefly reopened for in-person worship services have had to close again as the virus spread in their pews. Holy Ghost Catholic Church in Houston closed after five leaders tested positive last weekend, following the death of one priest who had been diagnosed with pneumonia. In Ringgold, Ga., Catoosa Baptist Tabernacle started in-person services again in late April but stopped on May 11 after learning that members of several families had contracted the virus. And on Tuesday the CDC released a report about an outbreak in March at a rural Arkansas church: Of the 92 people who attended the church between March 6 and March 11, 35 tested positive and three died, the report said. Investigators found that 26 other contacts of these churchgoers later tested positive and one died.
And that paragraph certainly seems like cause & effect.
according to a database maintained by the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, Georgia’s rolling seven-day average of new daily cases — an important metric that helps to balance out daily fluctuations in reporting — has fallen for three weeks in a row.
Those figures are undisputed — despite a clumsy effort by state officials to present the data in a way that made them look even better. And they are a lot better than the experience in two other states that are moving to end lockdowns, Florida and Texas.
For the seven-day period ending on May 4, Georgia’s daily average stood at 746 cases.
By May 11, the average had fallen 12.6 percent to 652 daily cases.
By May 18, it had dropped to 612 cases, a further decline of 6.1 percent.
At the same time, Georgia’s seven-day average of COVID-19 hospitalizations fell from 1,432 on May 4, to 1,239 on May 11, to 1,049 on May 18 — a three-week decline of 26.7 percent.
I wondered about Georgia manipulating data and PattyG posted about it. But AJC is keeping their own numbers that shows decline.
Driving home tonight, I have never, never seen the parking lot so packed at our TJ Max. I’m like ‘holy shit what is going on at TJ Max?’ My wife says there was a story on the news about a line as long as a football field of people waiting to get in.
Our mall parking lot had decent amount of cars, except Penny’s is closed. Most restaurants also had decent amount of cars. I can’t say busy because I’ve seen busy, but a couple dozen cars at big restaurants.
I was surprised to see how busy these places appear to be. Youngstown area Ohio.
My son is an EMT and on Tuesday returned froma three week deployment in NYC.
His company has already told staff to expect to deploy to the South and Midwest this summer as they expect the hospitals to be overwhelmed after opening up before the guidelines were met.
The 805 started opening up today - Phase 2. We'll see. Right now, I'll just stick to going to the supermarkets along with a few restaurants for take out. Might take my truck to the car wash.
Just hope everyone out and about is safe and not stupid. The operative word is "hope"... 🙁
Last week on 5/14 I incorrectly said that Ohio was only conducting on average 4546 test per day. I was averaging all cells instead of just a 7 day average. So for 5/14 that number of average tests per day was 8185 and as of 5/21 it is 9400 7 day average. Ohio has doubled the number of tests daily since May 1st.
Our cases remain plateaued off of their respective highs.
On our rolling 7 day average the highest daily increase average was 562 on May 15th, our previous high was 623 on May 9th and earlier 920 April 21st. Today it is 548.
Our rolling 14 day average case increase high was 606 on May 12th, our previous high was 688 May 1st. Today it is 555.
21 day high 662 on May 8th. Today that 3 week average in daily case increases is 573.
After persistent hospitalizations between 1000-1100, the last week have seen daily hospitalized patients in the upper 800 to lower 900 range. Our number of patients in ICU one month ago was 524, today that figure is 362 with consistent and steady decline.
My county is averaging about 15 new cases a day, half of what we were averaging at the start of this month. We had been averaging about 1-2 new patients admitted to our hospitals, that average has ticked up to about 2-2.5 now. 2-4 Mahoning County resisidents are lost each day, we've lost a total of 163 lives. Our population is about 229,000 residents. We are 4th in the state for deaths and 7th for cases. 69% of the county's total deaths are from nursing homes.
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’
Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”
He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”
“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”
Dr Birx.
Birx announces ‘dramatic decline’ in coronavirus cases across the states
The state of Vermont has 2 covid patients in the hospital now. But still on partial lockdown. Insanity.
https://www.healthvermont.gov/response/coronavirus-covid-19/current-activity-vermont
The 805 started opening up today - Phase 2. We'll see. Right now, I'll just stick to going to the supermarkets along with a few restaurants for take out. Might take my truck to the car wash.
Just hope everyone out and about is safe and not stupid. The operative word is "hope"... 🙁
Went today to a market in Hawkinsville (about 35 miles from here) to replenish the meat supply. They require masks to enter, provide gloves to those who don't have them, and allow only 10 customers in the store at one time. All employees wear masks and gloves.
You get a personal sales rep at the door and he/she handles the transactions from start to walking it to the register.
I feel that as businesses open up again, that's the policy they should enforce.
Rusty--If you know how to get to Hawkinsville, go to M&T Meats. My wife declared we are no longer going out to get steaks.
Lets hope your meats were not infected by covid19 infected workers.
Always the optimist.
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’
Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”
He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”
“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”
If you wait long enough these people will state opinions all over the map and contradict themselves, even Fauci.
We are all only human. Nobody really knows.
Nobody really knows.
This has been my stated belief from day one
Dr. Anthony Fauci says staying closed for too long could cause ‘irreparable damage’
Stay-at-home orders intended to curb the spread of the coronavirus could end up causing “irreparable damage” if imposed for too long, White House health advisor Dr. Anthony Fauci said.
“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” he told CNBC.“I don’t want people to think that any of us feel that staying locked down for a prolonged period of time is the way to go,” Fauci said during an interview with CNBC’s Meg Tirrell on “Halftime Report.”
He said the U.S. had to institute severe measures because Covid-19 cases were exploding then. “But now is the time, depending upon where you are and what your situation is, to begin to seriously look at reopening the economy, reopening the country to try to get back to some degree of normal.”
untry to try to get back to some degree of normal.”However, Fauci also cautioned states against reducing social distancing measures too quickly, adding they must take “very significant precautions.”
“In general, I think most of the country is doing it in a prudent way,” he said. “There are obviously some situations where people might be jumping over that. I just say please proceed with caution if you’re going to do that.”
If you wait long enough these people will state opinions all over the map and contradict themselves, even Fauci.
We are all only human. Nobody really knows.
What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?
So, nobody may know, but in the end, the math doesn't care and life either goes on or doesn't. And a pandemic will continue to cause destruction regardless of how many people go pray in churches or do shots in a bar.
What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?
It does make one wonder what state could possibly "guarantee" a full house - no social distancing - for the RNC in late August should Trump decide NC is moving too slowly or the NC governor doesn't relax seating capacity based on the health & safety information he examines. FL, TX, & GA are all mentioned as possible replacements suggesting their governors will turn a blind eye to whatever spikes may appear in the next few months. The price of breaking a contract w/the City of Charlotte, of course, is nothing to a pres using Other People's Money or no consideration for legal obligations.
What we do know is that cases & deaths continue to go up. That should tell us something. And in some of the states that have opened up in some form, the trends have reversed and are heading back up. Do people really wonder why?
It does make one wonder what state could possibly "guarantee" a full house - no social distancing - for the RNC in late August should Trump decide NC is moving too slowly or the NC governor doesn't relax seating capacity based on the health & safety information he examines. FL, TX, & GA are all mentioned as possible replacements suggesting their governors will turn a blind eye to whatever spikes may appear in the next few months. The price of breaking a contract w/the City of Charlotte, of course, is nothing to a pres using Other People's Money or no consideration for legal obligations.
I think there's a lot of bluster behind Dr. Trump's threat. Think about this - how many delegates would really feel good and feel safe hanging out for several days in a 20,000 seat or whatever size arena and doing a bunch of side partying with fellow delegates? You wonder if they think the dangers will...puff one day it'll be gone as the good doctor says, and it'll coincide with his crowning as the GOP candidate?
How many of you would want to attend a political event like this? No different at a big venue like MSG or a large outside shed.
I think there's a lot of bluster behind Dr. Trump's threat. Think about this - how many delegates would really feel good and feel safe hanging out for several days in a 20,000 seat or whatever size arena and doing a bunch of side partying with fellow delegates? You wonder if they think the dangers will...puff one day it'll be gone as the good doctor says, and it'll coincide with his crowning as the GOP candidate?
Yes, a lot of bluster & bullying, but his disciples don't really buy that COVID19 exists or that social distancing makes a difference. The same people that are marching on state capitols shoulder to shoulder & ignoring mask & distancing policies in the newly re-opened states might love cheering him on in a crowded venue. Trump's invincible & so are they or so they believe. Once again, it's Trump's obsession w/numbers. He doesn't want to look out into a 50% capacity arena (or worse have TV camera shots of one); he wants 110% so he can have a crowd even larger than his inauguration (not physically possible except in his mind).
How many of you would want to attend a political event like this? No different at a big venue like MSG or a large outside shed.
Not yet. But that would be MY choice.
