I wonder how this situation would have been handled by the Founding Fathers. They were faced with extreme polarization of two sides as well. It would be interesting to see how they would have resolved the problem of a rogue executive.
They were snobs. They put impeachment in the hands of the most exclusive division of government - the Senate. They expected the Senate to be gentlemen who subscribed to codes of honor (good god, they still had duels), knew 1st hand what powerful monarchs were like, and were intellectuals. Almost all of them were lawyers & knew precisely why the constitution was worded as it was. [In fact, until the last decades most senators WERE lawyers (75%) - not that they're smarter than anyone else, but they know con law.] And, for good measure, they weren't likely to have any rogue executives electing affable guys like washington & drafting constitutional creators like jefferson when no one else would step up. An ungentlemanly businessman wouldn't have been considered for the presidency & in fact, Hoover was the 1st in 1928. In the event someone went rogue, the mere charge that he acted dishonorably would have him impeached & removed ASAP.
Has the NYTs decided what the Blockbuster revelation will be next Tuesday before the final vote?
. . . Blockbuster . . .
The only Blockbuster I know of as a proper noun is Blockbuster Video. Blockbuster went out of business quite a while ago - matter of fact the last remaining Blockbuster is right here in Central Oregon, it has become a retro tourist attraction for millenials. I doubt they have much to reveal to the New York Times.
Maybe the Senate should go out of business like Blockbuster. That body no longer represents the "people" and abdicated its dutiful responsibilities to the Executive Branch. The Senate showed that that there are really only two branches - the Executive & the Judicial. If we blink, the Judicial may be gone too. That's what happens in autocratic societies.
Starting Monday, each senator will be allowed 10 minutes to make a statement. Some may very well say "I believe the facts presented by the House Managers, the prez did it & tried to cover it up, but I don't think he should be removed from office."
this is what they all will say even with witnesses, is my point. they accept the charges by Democrats, but disagree that he should be removed; therefore, no need for witnesses. i do see why there is value to getting it on legal record, but it appears that the outcome would be exactly the same. i just don't see how or why witness testimony is relevant when the defense is admitting and accepting everything already.
I think you have a valid point. However, more witness testimony that supports the allegations against Trump may sway a few independents or even previous Trump supporters to vote against him this coming November.
But yes, Mitch McConnell and the spineless Republican Senators made up their mind that they'd exonerate Trump the second the House completed the Impeachment. The actual trial was in the bag immediately. I only hope the public remembers this travesty when they enter the voting booth.
Looks like any President will now be allowed to do whatever he wants as long as his party controls the Senate. 🙁
Party over national interest.
I love this argument and point of view, the Democrats have accusations and "proof" lol, so therefore to disagree with us....
Looks like any President will now be allowed to do whatever he wants as long as his party controls the Senate. 🙁
Party over national interest.
I love this argument and point of view, the Democrats have accusations and "proof" lol, so therefore to disagree with us....
Don't forget witness testimony....From several people. A rather important thing to ignore in any trial.
If they were able to obtain it, I suspect there's documents, emails, texts, etc. to corroborate the witness testimony but little Caligula and his merry band of henchman (including the Senate majority leader) refused to allow such potential evidence to be provided to both the House and Senate....
Presume away that there's no real proof, but given the length dear leader has gone to suppress testimony and documentation from his inner circle, it seems pretty certain to me and many others that there certainly is...and probably a lot of it.
If they were able to obtain it
I suspect there's documents, emails, texts, etc.
Presume away that there's no real proof
it seems pretty certain to me
and probably
"if'
"I suspect"
"presumption of 'real' proof"
"pretty certain"
"probably"
"Pretty tough to argue with these points as they've been presented"
I "hope" you are not an Attorney
Indications as of now point toward the same outcome as Clinton’s outcome 21 years ago almost to the day - acquittal - but there’s still time for more political football before next week’s Senate vote - that’s all it is - a political process
- if it’s indeed acquittal, the Democrats can then focus on Plan B, the election, as a means for removal
This is where I think Hillary Clinton could make a big-splash announcement of her entrance into the race
She went through the whole impeachment process w/Bill, she knows how the game is played, she almost beat Trump the 1st time, there’s no real Dem candidate of note right now, many still like the idea of a woman president, & her advisers might just be saying - “we could be the front runner almost right out of the gate”
But who knows
This is where I think Hillary Clinton could make a big-splash announcement of her entrance into the race
I've been saying this all along. She is truly the gift that keeps on giving....
Have another s'more, roast another marshmallow, tell another scary campfire story about THE BOOGEYWOMAN.
She is not coming back, relax.
Worth saving. Thanks
"if'
"I suspect"
"presumption of 'real' proof"
"pretty certain"
"probably""Pretty tough to argue with these points as they've been presented"
I "hope" you are not an Attorney
Is that you?...Not what I expected at all.
i believe this is acting out exactly as the Founding Fathers intended - they just never imagined that the people of the United States would ever allow themselves to be brainwashed by an evil dictator. that's the only mistake the Founding Fathers made.
but this is exactly how it's supposed to work. this is democracy because it's what the people are voting for and continue to support in masses. trials have been held. due process is happening, and juries are deciding "not guilty". if the majority of the country was in fear and wanted Trump gone, then the Senate would have him behind bars already.
but the entire point of the United States and the Constitution is to build what the majority of the people vote for (the electorate v. popular vote is different story), and right now the majority supports Trump's vision and expanded powers. because the people are voting for it, because the Senators believe they will lose their jobs if they convict, it becomes perfectly legal, regardless of what's in the Constitution - because the Constitution can be amended with enough votes and support, which they have.
to manage a rogue evil President in the White House, they created the 8-year term limit. that's the last, final, only resort we have. it's the only thing left to protect. if we lose this, then we've seen the fall of the United States, and we'll all remember who the people were that wanted to destroy the free democracy the Fathers created.
The Founders had nothing to do w/term limits. Washington decided not to serve more than 2 terms & it became a practice followed until Roosevelt ran for 3rd & 4th terms. Congress didn't pass a 2 term limit amendment until 1947 and it wasn't ratified until 1950-51.
They also weren't as concerned w/what the people wanted as they were w/structure. [And "the people" didn't include women and African-Americans.] They never envisioned a senate that wasn't an elite body of honorable men who would toss a power-mad egomaniac out w/a unanimous vote.
They DID envision a Trump-like figure as Hamilton described in 1792 & was Schiff's opening quote in the trial:
"When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the ability of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanor—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the nonsense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"
Their expectation was that the Senate would have the ballz to toss him.
i believe this is acting out exactly as the Founding Fathers intended - they just never imagined that the people of the United States would ever allow themselves to be brainwashed by an evil dictator. that's the only mistake the Founding Fathers made.
but this is exactly how it's supposed to work. this is democracy because it's what the people are voting for and continue to support in masses. trials have been held. due process is happening, and juries are deciding "not guilty". if the majority of the country was in fear and wanted Trump gone, then the Senate would have him behind bars already.
but the entire point of the United States and the Constitution is to build what the majority of the people vote for (the electorate v. popular vote is different story), and right now the majority supports Trump's vision and expanded powers. because the people are voting for it, because the Senators believe they will lose their jobs if they convict, it becomes perfectly legal, regardless of what's in the Constitution - because the Constitution can be amended with enough votes and support, which they have.
to manage a rogue evil President in the White House, they created the 8-year term limit. that's the last, final, only resort we have. it's the only thing left to protect. if we lose this, then we've seen the fall of the United States, and we'll all remember who the people were that wanted to destroy the free democracy the Fathers created.
The Founders had nothing to do w/term limits. Washington decided not to serve more than 2 terms & it became a practice followed until Roosevelt ran for 3rd & 4th terms. Congress didn't pass a 2 term limit amendment until 1947 and it wasn't ratified until 1950-51.
They also weren't as concerned w/what the people wanted as they were w/structure. [And "the people" didn't include women and African-Americans.] They never envisioned a senate that wasn't an elite body of honorable men who would toss a power-mad egomaniac out w/a unanimous vote.
They DID envision a Trump-like figure as Hamilton described in 1792 & was Schiff's opening quote in the trial:
"When a man unprincipled in private life desperate in his fortune, bold in his temper, possessed of considerable talents, having the ability of military habits—despotic in his ordinary demeanor—known to have scoffed in private at the principles of liberty—when such a man is seen to mount the hobby horse of popularity—to join in the cry of danger to liberty—to take every opportunity of embarrassing the General Government & bringing it under suspicion—to flatter and fall in with all the nonsense of the zealots of the day—It may justly be suspected that his object is to throw things into confusion that he may 'ride the storm and direct the whirlwind.'"
Their expectation was that the Senate would have the ballz to toss him.
This even makes me feel more like those Senators were threatened by the *tRump base.
[Edited on 2/2/2020 by Skydog32103]
Sometimes I feel some of the posters actually live in a "van down by the river" and go to the local library to get on the internet.
[Edited on 2/2/2020 by Skydog32103]
Sometimes I feel some of the posters actually live in a "van down by the river" and go to the local library to get on the internet.
Says the man who's bathes himself in the conspiracy theory world...Go design a new tinfoil hat...Did you know there's a guy in AZ that got arrested for making threats against Adam Schiff and don't you remember the guy who's sitting in jail for sending bombs to politicians?? The AZ guy got drunk and was watching FOX news when he decided to make the call. But I guess briebart and Alex Jones didn't tell you about those incidents. In fact during the trial Adam Schiff made the same reference to the GOP sitting there
[Edited on 2/2/2020 by Skydog32103]
Sometimes I feel some of the posters actually live in a "van down by the river" and go to the local library to get on the internet.
Says the man who's bathes himself in the conspiracy theory world...Go design a new tinfoil hat...Did you know there's a guy in AZ that got arrested for making threats against Adam Schiff and don't you remember the guy who's sitting in jail for sending bombs to politicians?? The AZ guy got drunk and was watching FOX news when he decided to make the call. But I guess briebart and Alex Jones didn't tell you about those incidents. In fact during the trial Adam Schiff made the same reference to the GOP sitting there
Hey Goldtop, just exactly what does that have to do with my post?
The whole country watched as the democrats placed a party "win" or "victory" over the American people's agenda, spending millions of dollars and 6 months of investigation, grinding to a halt any bills like infrastructure, Dangerous socialist ideas are rising to the top of this party. This is too serious to be considered comedy in my opinion. These reckless socialist ideas need to be stomped under the boot of the USA and we need to maintain a thriving democracy. This version of the democratic party will answer for these sins in November.
These reckless socialist ideas need to be stomped under the boot of the USA and we need to maintain a thriving democracy. This version of the democratic party will answer for these sins in November.
you speak the same way as Al-Queda and ISIS.
You need to study history and the news a little bit better. Your statement makes no sense what so ever.
Of course it would possibly have some basis if you are an Al Queda or Isis operative here to sow dissent and misinformation.
Ya all should have a good listen and maybe you'll find your way back from the absurd
I'm going to miss green shirt guy..... Last angry ranting democrat turn out the lights on the DJTrump impeachment. Why is nancy pelosi thinking impeachment is so bad for DJT ? WJC is the best democratic prez in the last 40 years who was impeached and found guilty. Nancy Pelosis impeachment play is a hollow victory in the big picture.
If Trump were emotionally healthy, he would have just shut up and use actions to show his resolve to move forward with the country's agendas. However being the narcissistic psychopath that he is, he can't just say nothing or say something that would bring the country together again.
Note for the day from John Kelly
John Kelly: ''So if you only watch Fox News, because it's reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
John Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff and ex-DHS secretary, says the press is not "the enemy of the people," and that migrants crossing the southern border are overwhelmingly good people who are looking for jobs.
[Edited on 2/13/2020 by goldtop]
This just in...NEWS FLASH from NIGS (Normal Information Gathering Service)
All corporate media is propaganda, brainwashing the Lemmings that tune in to get spoon-red their psudeo-intellectual nuggets -o-spin that a consensus of federally funded scientists agree increases polarization via uniform process of thought and action. The vibration in the various forms of broadcasted signals has an encompassing effect on those in high dense population areas, The same phenomenon occurs in rural areas as well, but attracts itself to an opposite connotation.
Note for the day from John Kelly
John Kelly: ''So if you only watch Fox News, because it's reinforcing what you believe, you are not an informed citizen."
John Kelly, Trump's former chief of staff and ex-DHS secretary, says the press is not "the enemy of the people," and that migrants crossing the southern border are overwhelmingly good people who are looking for jobs.
[Edited on 2/13/2020 by goldtop]
Why should we listen to anyone who has worked for Trump such as John Kelly, General Mattis, the Colonel with a Purple Heart - Vindman, Rex Tillerson, prosecutors who resigned at DOJ over Trump & Barr's unethical behavior, and countless others who have left this admin? They all are unpatriotic and didn't play ball with the emperor. None of them are the great patriotic American / Russian lover that Trump is and none of them know how to achieve anything or do their jobs like Trump. Long live the MAGA King.
[Edited on 2/13/2020 by MartinD28]
either google erased this acronym from its existence, or this is something inappropriate for a public forum.
Your sense of humor is as useless as your self imposed moral policing of a crime that never took place.
So does DIC mean Democratic Iowa Caucus or is it inappropriate for a public forum. Cause somebody with an agenda driven mentality thinks it "means" penis?
what media isn't corporate? all local news is owned by cbs, abc, nbc, fox, etc., but they aren't propaganda. the local affiliates tend to deliver non-biased factual reporting. where do you get your information on current events? how do you stay informed?
My entire post was humor-izing what a lot of people believe
There is a difference between reporting a car crash killed three, the high school quarterback threw 3 TD passes, or the price of wheat is down this week and the agenda driven policies of their parent companies, the types of products advertised to the base audience, much less the type of human interest stories covered at t the local level is based on agenda of the parent company.
You don't need to own a TV or use Twitter/Facebook to get info. Actual journalism still exists and it isn,t found on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and that ilk. The internet is the worse place to get info from it you are lazy. It is the best place to look if you have the patience to see past the bias, the agenda, and the propaganda.
You can watch what you want, believe what you want, I can 't control that or want to. When an individual can admit that learning is possible from somsthing/someone they disagree with, they no longer follow the precept of being told what truth is or what truth isn't. A liberating thing!
what media isn't corporate? all local news is owned by cbs, abc, nbc, fox, etc., but they aren't propaganda. the local affiliates tend to deliver non-biased factual reporting. where do you get your information on current events? how do you stay informed?
My entire post was humor-izing what a lot of people believe
There is a difference between reporting a car crash killed three, the high school quarterback threw 3 TD passes, or the price of wheat is down this week and the agenda driven policies of their parent companies, the types of products advertised to the base audience, much less the type of human interest stories covered at t the local level is based on agenda of the parent company.You don't need to own a TV or use Twitter/Facebook to get info. Actual journalism still exists and it isn,t found on Fox, CNN, MSNBC and that ilk. The internet is the worse place to get info from it you are lazy. It is the best place to look if you have the patience to see past the bias, the agenda, and the propaganda.
You can watch what you want, believe what you want, I can 't control that or want to. When an individual can admit that learning is possible from somsthing/someone they disagree with, they no longer follow the precept of being told what truth is or what truth isn't. A liberating thing!
On all the cable news stations you have a cross of journalists and pundits. You can get honest information from any of them if you listen at the right time and know that most of the shows are opinion shows but they also bring in politicians and others with knowledge and they ask them questions. It's up to you to decide who's blowing smoke up your azz and who isn't...they all aren't...some actually have something to say if you're willing to listen.
It seems to be a stretch to say that they all are lying...Some people actually have some dignity on each of those stations and there are those that don't. The prime time FOX pundits are especially far right and the ones from MSNBC and CNN are more far left. They each bring on those who tell a story. It's up to each of us to filter out the static.
But all you really have to do is look at what *tRump is doing and decide if you can handle that or not...all of other crap is static. Just watch what he does...me I'm not good with any of it and there isn't anything on any of those stations that could change my mind I'm just watching *tRump phuck our entire country up while the senate stands by and does nothing but "Hope he learned a lesson" People... we are the laughing stock of the world when we use to lead...If you can't see that I have no help for you. If this is what you wanted I feel sorry for you
Goldtop:
A media outlet gets caught lying outright or is lying by omission, my ability to trust their credibility is gone. First off, what is the motive for not being truthful? It has to more than just making money. There are part-truths in any agenda, some are cool accepting that, I am not. Making a decision based on any kind of deceptive practice is foolish. If you need to make your choices based on the opinions of people on TV, I feel sorry for you.
Goldtop:
A media outlet gets caught lying outright or is lying by omission, my ability to trust their credibility is gone. First off, what is the motive for not being truthful? It has to more than just making money. There are part-truths in any agenda, some are cool accepting that, I am not. Making a decision based on any kind of deceptive practice is foolish. If you need to make your choices based on the opinions of people on TV, I feel sorry for you.
But all you really have to do is look at what *tRump is doing and decide if you can handle that or not...all of other crap is static. Just watch what he does...me I'm not good with any of it and there isn't anything on any of those stations that could change my mind I'm just watching *tRump phuck our entire country up while the senate stands by and does nothing but "Hope he learned a lesson" People... we are the laughing stock of the world when we use to lead...If you can't see that I have no help for you. If this is what you wanted I feel sorry for you
I guess you didn't read this part
[Edited on 2/14/2020 by goldtop]
A media outlet gets caught lying outright or is lying by omission, my ability to trust their credibility is gone. First off, what is the motive for not being truthful? It has to more than just making money. There are part-truths in any agenda, some are cool accepting that, I am not. Making a decision based on any kind of deceptive practice is foolish. If you need to make your choices based on the opinions of people on TV, I feel sorry for you.
which outlets do you use to stay informed?
I have a cousin that claims all the same things and told me to watch BBC so I did...they were saying the exact same things as the cable news stations, as does the local stations when they start talking about *tRump...same things discussed different people. The fact that people think everyone is lying to them tells me they believe only the absurd thoughts they conjure up in their own heads. To say that they all lie is a self lie. It saying those people have no self respect and no dignity and I'm the only one who tells the truth...a self lie