I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.
Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.
Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.
I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.
Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.
I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.
In MN, 1st degree is life v. 25 years for 3rd. When I read the original charge, it seemed appropriate. The inclusion of lesser charges like manslaughter is risky, too, because it gives the jury an option if the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Bumping up the charge was probably a PR move to look serious. People watch too much TV & think 1st degree is magically more serious; it just may not apply
I know I've been going on about the 3 other ex-cops but it's been a week. Get them into custody.
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.
Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.
Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.
I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.
Not necessarily, the 4 cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted
Just hoping the Thursday funeral will serve to calm things down & not be a powderkeg
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.
Any indication of whether the outsiders are white supremacists making their rounds or Antifa? I've learned just saying "outside" has some people immediately blaming Antifa - "those radical left." I feel like I'm back in time hearing about the SDS/weathermen again.
In MN, 1st degree is life v. 25 years for 3rd. When I read the original charge, it seemed appropriate. The inclusion of lesser charges like manslaughter is risky, too, because it gives the jury an option if the prosecution can't prove beyond a reasonable doubt. Bumping up the charge was probably a PR move to look serious. People watch too much TV & think 1st degree is magically more serious; it just may not apply
It has to do with intent, 3rd degree murder in MN is categorized as murder "without intent". First degree requires intent to kill, and recent reports suggest Chauvin knew Floyd since they both worked security at the same night club.
Even if they didn't know each other, purposefully crushing a man's neck for minutes after he has gone unconscious looks intentional to me. Here is a breakdown of the entire incident:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/31/us/george-floyd-investigation.html
We had riots & destruction in my city last couple nights. The chief of police said he has credible evidence and intel that much of this is being instigated by outsiders. They are looking to go after these people.
Any indication of whether the outsiders are white supremacists making their rounds or Antifa? I've learned just saying "outside" has some people immediately blaming Antifa - "those radical left." I feel like I'm back in time hearing about the SDS/weathermen again.
No indication on detail of outsiders. I worked with the chief many years ago when he was in Information Systems long before he changed careers. He always was a stand up guy. One of the most decent & capable people I've worked with.
Maybe you want to direct your question to Trump because he's already made up his mind. Has he even mentioned white supremacists?
By Jessica Suerth | CNN
As protests over George Floyd’s death spread across the country, officials have blamed the violent nature of some demonstrations on members of a controversial group known as Antifa.
President Donald Trump on Sunday said the United States would designate Antifa a terrorist organization, though the federal government has no legal authority to label a wholly domestic group the way it designates foreign terrorist organizations.
Speaking at the Kennedy Space Center on Saturday, Trump said the recent “violence and vandalism” seen across the country “is being led by Antifa and other radical left-wing groups who are terrorizing the innocent, destroying jobs, hurting businesses and burning down buildings.”
The President did not provide any evidence for his assertion.
I honestly believe that reeling in the other 3 - then, upgrading the charge on the original to Murder I might go along way towards quelling the unrest.
Totally agree. Upgrading the charge & transferring Chauvin's prosecution to the MN AG is the 1st step - despite taking 7 dates. Having those 3 at large this long is unsettling. It would demonstrate not that government is just talking, but they're taking the case seriously & acting swiftly to ensure those 3 will not "walk" for their part in the murder.
Agree on charges being brought against the 3 additional cops.
I have seen several legal analysts indicate that upgrading Chauvin's charges from 3 to 1 may make a conviction harder based upon intent. It may make people feel better based on charging, but the goal is to put him away. One legal analyst indicated that once in the big house murder is murder. Not sure about the number of years difference in one charge vs another, but Chauvin is toast.
Not necessarily, the 4 cops who beat up Rodney King were acquitted
Just hoping the Thursday funeral will serve to calm things down & not be a powderkeg
I'd be shocked if you see a repeeat of Rodney King or many of the other similar cases. Chauvin & friends will go down. If not, what you have seen in the last week will look like the minor leagues.
I truly believe the culture will change from the events of the last few months & with a new President who will not egg on cops & violence. Look at Trump's words over the last 3 years & in the last week.
No calming press conference as of yet from this prez. However today he blames the governors. As usual, blaming is his greatest attribute as "a leader".
Let me ask you a question. The people (Regardless of race or color) who've taken to the streets to loot, pillage and burn under the banner of "revolt" do you believe them to be Liberals or Conservatives?
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.
This is spot on, I agree.
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.
This is spot on, I agree.
Agree also. Plus a very large number of the people who are not looting, but out in the streets to protest have probably never voted and pay very little attention to what the political parties are about. They have grown up knowing they are screwed no matter who is in power. When you are the poorest of the poor, you stay poor. It's really hard to get out. This applies to people living in inner city ghettos and hillbilly trailer parks. Politicians and elections are way down on their list of worries. They are not liberal or conservative... they are just vulnerable and powerless in a lot of ways.
Honestly, I think most of those who loot and burn are neither. I think those who loot are opportunist criminals who find the protests as a chance to take advantage of police being overwhelmed. I think the vast majority of those burning buildings are anarchist who hate everybody and would like to destroy all government, regardless of who is in charge. I doubt either of these groups put any thought into politics, and I highly doubt that most have ever voted in their entire life.
This is spot on, I agree.
X2. Every word.
Minneapolis has history of these cops getting away with murder literally and figuratively but that doesn't matter to the pigs and their supporters. The Chief of the Police Union up there has started to stir the pot even more labeling Floyd as a "violent criminal".
He is one of those types that favors mass incarceration and systemic oppression over rehabilitation.
https://www.insider.com/president-minneapolis-police-union-wore-white-power-patch-lawsuit-2020-5
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.
He "ain't wastin' time no more"...after being sent to the bunker in the White House for his own safety 2 out of the last four days and after discussion with General Milley and Mark Esper he announced he will stop the rioting. If the Governors and Mayors cannot do it, he will deploy the military and do it for them.
Each night things are worse in every city. He has to do this.
Https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-he-will-use-military-to-put-down-riots-235749948.html
It is so bad on Florida, Polk County Police Chief Grady Judd tells citizens to shoot the people trying to break in their homes.
"If you try to break into their houses to steal, to set fires,I'm highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So leave the community alone. "
NYC disaster. Protest tonight starts at 10 pm. We are supposed to be on lockdown meaning people are home and stay there by 8 pm. The Mayors daughter was out there over the weekend and was arrested. So he is not enforcing anything. The Governor has to deal with the coronavirus. It is just bad.
I have a report from Rome, NY and Utica NY, the Walmarts closed because someone threatened to shoot people in the stores and or parking lots. Rome has the air force base.
The NYC protesters want to come out to Long Island also. I'm not into martial law. All these other places look at what has happened. The anarchists have hijacked national empathy for their own agenda. Riots are not a form of peaceful assembly or a way to change anything.
[Edited on 6/2/2020 by gina]
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.
He "ain't wastin' time no more"...after being sent to the bunker in the White House for his own safety 2 out of the last four days and after discussion with General Milley and Mark Esper he announced he will stop the rioting. If the Governors and Mayors cannot do it, he will deploy the military and do it for them.
Each night things are worse in every city. He has to do this.
Https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-he-will-use-military-to-put-down-riots-235749948.html
It is so bad on Florida, Polk County Police Chief Grady Judd tells citizens to shoot the people trying to break in their homes.
"If you try to break into their houses to steal, to set fires,I'm highly recommending they blow you back out of the house with their guns. So leave the community alone. "
NYC disaster. Protest tonight starts at 10 pm. We are supposed to be on lockdown meaning people are home and stay there by 8 pm. The Mayors daughter was out there over the weekend and was arrested. So he is not enforcing anything. The Governor has to deal with the coronavirus. It is just bad.
Leave it to you to condone trump's illegal actions.
I have seen so much horror over the last week. People being brutalized by cops while in demonstrations, reporters being deliberately targeted. What is the resolution to these things?
The cops shoot reporters, anarchists antagonize cops, innocent people are getting hurt, fires everywhere.
How can this be resolved?
I don't want to see Jade Helm on Americas streets.
Says that by 2014 $787,000 per year was spent providing battlefield weaponry to police departments. - Glen Ford
US Senator Brian Schatz of Hawaii is introducing a bill as an amendment to the NDAA to discontinue the program that transfers military weapons to local police departments because they do not "train and supervise for restraint and de-escalation and some officers are just plain racist and violent".
All these years questioning why police departments are militarizing their forces...isn't this the prime example why they have done it? This is the exact moment they have obtained that stuff for. Glad they have it.
This is exactly right, for the last 60 yrs, who has planned, plotted and executed activities designed to bring about the fall and collapse of the U.S. government??? It's not the impoverished minorities, I can tell You that!!! Why it's our idolized fighters for justice, our heroes like Randy Weaver and the Aryan Brotherhood??......joe
Oh come on. yeah...the earth liberation front...WTO protests in Seattle 20 years ago...the Occupy movement was hijacked in a similar way that BLM is seeing now. We've already had one mention of the SDS/Weather Underground.
Sure, there are the Timothy McViegh's the Randy Weavers out there.
Anyone who focuses on one side of the extremist spectrum while ignoring the other has an agenda. Be that members here or in the White House.
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.
Would you actually prefer he gave an address?
You wouldn't agree with his words or proposed actions, so then isn't the better alternative is he doesn't address the nation?
Sure, a normal President would do what normal Presidents do. When Trump talks he normally makes things worse...so I suspect you would be happier if he keeps fiddling.
I don't know the answer for media members being targeted by police.
They should probably embed some teams behind the police lines like they do overseas to keep them safe. Anyone on the other side in an area the police are trying to move on and clear need to get out the way. I've seen cameramen directly in front of police lines when they are trying to advance, get out of the damn way!
Just goes to show...you can't hardly trust anything coming from anyone.
Last night in Atlanta news crews from all the stations were out in force and broadcasting live from where the protests were taking place.
a little after 9 PM, the main force of protesters left the areas and the stations were broadcasting about how the protests had gone (reasonably peaceful except for a few incidents).
Then the fun began. some "protesters" came out carrying jugs of water and milk, fully masked, some in gas masks, and gloved.
channel 46 broadcast continuous coverage on one group that the reporter described as "playing chicken with the national Guard troops". they would advance and hide, responded directions to disperse with taunts, made any attempt to antagonize the police and troops.
The police advanced on the ATVs and more dispersed, and some decided to keep at their game.
some were arrested as the police and troops rounded up and cleared the area.
Andrew Young came on, I think, WSB and talked about how outsiders were the problem and named white supremacists as the main agitators. Funny as that those you could see their skin color weren't white.
I do agree that outsiders are the main problem, not locals. The locals, except for a few, went home before the curfew fell in place,
Antifa, could be part of the problem, but so could any other group of anarchists or just a bunch of folks gone cabin crazy and decided that this would be a good time to get back at "whoever" the flavor of the month is.
Protest is fine. It's part of why this country was founded. When protest turns to looting, burning, assault on others, and general mayhem like the threats on Walmart shoppers shown in a post above, then it does become domestic terrorism.
Leave it to you to condone trump's illegal actions.
Illegal actions? Or his reckless suggestions? There is a difference technically.
Last night in Atlanta news crews from all the stations were out in force and broadcasting live from where the protests were taking place.
a little after 9 PM, the main force of protesters left the areas and the stations were broadcasting about how the protests had gone (reasonably peaceful except for a few incidents).
Then the fun began. some "protesters" came out carrying jugs of water and milk, fully masked, some in gas masks, and gloved.
channel 46 broadcast continuous coverage on one group that the reporter described as "playing chicken with the national Guard troops". they would advance and hide, responded directions to disperse with taunts, made any attempt to antagonize the police and troops.
The police advanced on the ATVs and more dispersed, and some decided to keep at their game.
some were arrested as the police and troops rounded up and cleared the area.
Andrew Young came on, I think, WSB and talked about how outsiders were the problem and named white supremacists as the main agitators. Funny as that those you could see their skin color weren't white.I do agree that outsiders are the main problem, not locals. The locals, except for a few, went home before the curfew fell in place,
Antifa, could be part of the problem, but so could any other group of anarchists or just a bunch of folks gone cabin crazy and decided that this would be a good time to get back at "whoever" the flavor of the month is.Protest is fine. It's part of why this country was founded. When protest turns to looting, burning, assault on others, and general mayhem like the threats on Walmart shoppers shown in a post above, then it does become domestic terrorism.
Much of the white supremacist speculation comes from online threats.
So much happening and we see so little. But from what I have seen the trouble makers are either black or white hipster looking types. I'm not going to draw any conclusions from that except that a white nationalist stereotype they do not fit. At the same time I am going to completely accept that every and any bad actor in the US ready and willing to instigate civil unrest is playing a role in this.
Bottom line, anyone, regardless of group affiliation, race or sex, if they are breaking the law they need apprehended and charged with applicable crimes. but the police and guard can only be so many places and do so much. Maybe the protesters need to better police themselves. Maybe some of these agitators should get some spray paint in their faces. Maybe some of these arsonists should get trapped in the buildings they are burning. Maybe some of these brick throwers should have their knees taken out.
This is exactly right, for the last 60 yrs, who has planned, plotted and executed activities designed to bring about the fall and collapse of the U.S. government??? It's not the impoverished minorities, I can tell You that!!! Why it's our idolized fighters for justice, our heroes like Randy Weaver and the Aryan Brotherhood??......joe
Oh come on. yeah...the earth liberation front...WTO protests in Seattle 20 years ago...the Occupy movement was hijacked in a similar way that BLM is seeing now. We've already had one mention of the SDS/Weather Underground.
Sure, there are the Timothy McViegh's the Randy Weavers out there.
Anyone who focuses on one side of the extremist spectrum while ignoring the other has an agenda. Be that members here or in the White House.
Well, I might be behind the times neb, but i am sure You know what i meant, how about the famous Michigan Malitia or the real fine folks seen at Charlottesville? Those type folks are more frightening to me than some folks who are seeking the justice they deserve. Look man, real racism is bad!!!!, it means more than calling someone a bad name, it means not giving a person a job, it means a banker not giving a person a home loan, it may mean not being able to live where You want to, it's all rigged for the systematic oppression of a certain group of our population......joe
In Ga. that could be a solution. Get the actual protesters to self police for trouble makers.
Since Ga is an open carry state, those who wish to high jack the protest could end up with a damaged kneecap.
The actual protester could claim self defense of himself and others.
Could work.
I don't know...comparing the Michigan militia, I've seen armed black persons in Minnesota and honestly I was damn happy to see them. One video showed some guys outside a building with a sign on the door saying 'black owned' and about 4-5 dudes outside armed to the teeth with somebody filming talking some gansta talk. Good for them. Seen other armed black protesters.
I don't have any problem with white people or black people with guns be it they obtain and carry them legally.
The Michigan protesters were within their right to have the guns, but my opinion is it was counterproductive. The people in Minneapolis...the people everywhere really, these business owners getting beaten...wish every city and state allowed their citizens to protect themselves. Easy targets are the ones not allowed to legally defend themselves.
White nationalists in Charlottesville and everywhere should be labeled a domestic terrorist group. So should the same people that show up to these protests...same people anti-war, occupy movement, the 20-30 something skinny white guys and gals in their hipster clothes be they anarchists, anti-government types, anti-white, anti-black, anti-police. Take it out further...anti-abortion...anti-gay...extreme environmental activists...all of them. We'd be so much better without all these people. Can't limit their free speech. But we can arrest them whenever and wherever they unlawfully act out.
Last night in Atlanta news crews from all the stations were out in force and broadcasting live from where the protests were taking place.
a little after 9 PM, the main force of protesters left the areas and the stations were broadcasting about how the protests had gone (reasonably peaceful except for a few incidents).
Then the fun began. some "protesters" came out carrying jugs of water and milk, fully masked, some in gas masks, and gloved.
channel 46 broadcast continuous coverage on one group that the reporter described as "playing chicken with the national Guard troops". they would advance and hide, responded directions to disperse with taunts, made any attempt to antagonize the police and troops.
The police advanced on the ATVs and more dispersed, and some decided to keep at their game.
some were arrested as the police and troops rounded up and cleared the area.
Andrew Young came on, I think, WSB and talked about how outsiders were the problem and named white supremacists as the main agitators. Funny as that those you could see their skin color weren't white.I do agree that outsiders are the main problem, not locals. The locals, except for a few, went home before the curfew fell in place,
Antifa, could be part of the problem, but so could any other group of anarchists or just a bunch of folks gone cabin crazy and decided that this would be a good time to get back at "whoever" the flavor of the month is.Protest is fine. It's part of why this country was founded. When protest turns to looting, burning, assault on others, and general mayhem like the threats on Walmart shoppers shown in a post above, then it does become domestic terrorism.
Well I don't like the term 'domestic terrorist'. But the people provoking violence, looting, riots are something. I saw footage from Philadelphia, whites have taken bats and went to try to stop some of the rioters/looters. On Twitter at phillyriots.
Some people want to make it a Whites vs. Blacks issue. Racism may have played a role in George Floyd's death, violence doesn't change that.
1. The problem of his death rests with the Minnesota police department. Changes in their handbook of permissible techniques for subdual and arrest need to happen. It currently allows knee to the neck. So does Philadelphia. Nationwide that could be changed as well as the chokehold procedures.
2. These changes need to happen on statewide and county levels.
3. The local head of Black Lives Matter Hawk Newsome has a law degree. Rather than these mob protests he could work on the statewide and national levels to effect changes to the laws and procedures instead of being out in the streets with a bullhorn leading protests that become violent.
The focus of change should be fairness for all no matter what color but the movement only focuses on blacks. What about something more inclusive like human lives matter? Justice for all because other people get abused also.
[Edited on 6/2/2020 by gina]
Some BLM protesters are taking the all lives matter approach, but they say black lives are threatened.
All lives matters mantra was an attempt by some to either minimize the BLM movement intentionally or to say that genuinely that all lives matter, why single out a specific race - these people miss the point of BLM and what minorities have to live with.
I like seeing BLM take up that line that all lives matter and then they can emphasize the urgency of what they are talking about related to the black community.
Trump fiddles while the U.S. burns.
Would you actually prefer he gave an address?
You wouldn't agree with his words or proposed actions, so then isn't the better alternative is he doesn't address the nation?
Sure, a normal President would do what normal Presidents do. When Trump talks he normally makes things worse...so I suspect you would be happier if he keeps fiddling.
Times like these call for carefully chosen words. That's not the MO of the current occupant of the WH. I agree, anything he says is just going to throw gasoline on the fire. Better that he hide in his bunker and stay quiet.