Seems like we need a thread for all the conflicting information about what happened on Jan 6 and who is responsible...
discuss..
They had no problem with the "peaceful protestors" across the country before January 6, why do they have their panties in a wad now?
Who's "they"?
Actually, most didn't have a problem with peaceful protestors across the country. Every day there were peaceful protests against discrimintation in cities across the country, and it was their right.
Most people did have a problem with destruction of private property and vandals during protests, which was pretty abhorrent. Many people were arrested and charged. Many people who wanted to discredit the peaceful protests, and their anti-racist message, focused on this.
But of course none of those protests come close to a mob storming the nation's capitol, breaking in to congressional offices, stealing records, attacking police officers that resulted casualties. It was a pretty shameful, unique event in our country's history that defies comparison. Well, except a few racist pro-Trump people still tried to compare it to something else, but we know better.
@jerry and the other protests were not trying to overthrow the government and lawfully elected President.
The violence at the "other" protest is not to be condoned but you are not comparing apples to apples.
Oh yes, there were many actual protesters that were peaceful and had nothing to do with the destruction of property, burning cars, both police and personal, looting, causing physical violence on those who didn't fall into their view of the world, much as many of those who were at the Capitol building last January 6th.
Myself, I don't think they were trying to overthrow the government, but they were trying to disrupt the verification of the Electoral College votes and it got out of hand with the mob mentality that came about.
As far as overthrowing the government, don't you think destroying and burning police stations and public buildings is an attempt to overthrow local government?
Why didn't the Capitol Police try to disband the groups with CS gas or other non lethal methods when they tried to get into the Capitol?
I do agree with you that it shouldn't have happened in the way it did, but the media (THEY) have made everyone in the area into a criminal, or an accomplice of what happened. They (the media) want you to believe that every person close to the Capitol was involved.
A representative group should have been allowed in to voice their protests (remember the ones yelling "He's not my president." during Trumps verification) and I think it wouldn't have turned out like it did.
https://www.wkbn.com/news/local-news/local-man-charged-in-capitol-riot-dies/
A guy from my general area here, Matthew Perna, he was at January 6th and committed suicide last week. It's made national news. In one of the few times I happened to check Tucker Carlson's show lately, they happened to be talking about it, showing so much sorrow and questioning what would push the government to kill this individual (he committed suicide but the insinuation and the family's position is that his death is due to wrongful indictment and prosecution). I'm not familiar with many details of Perna's case or specifics. I did immediately question if Carlson or his guest at the time ever showed such care and concern for others who have committed suicide after January 6th, like any of the Capitol Police officers?
Several Democrats refused to attend Trump's inauguration claiming Trump was not legitimate. That some how Trump, apparently aided by the Russians, cheated and STOLE the election from Hillary.
To this end the Democrats demanded the government spend millions of dollars of tax payer money for a thorough investigation which became the Robert Muller investigation.
It wouldn't surprise me if January 6th was whipped up by Trump as pay back to the Democrats. Today there are millions of people who insist Joe Biden isn't legit. And yes those who burned down Target, WalMart, Walgreens, McDonalds stores and looted countless flat screen TVs, expensive cloths and jewelry etc are CRIMINALS!! Those that ripped down statues and spray painted Federal Government property ARE CRIMINALS!! I saw a young man on TV running out of a battered WalMart with a big flat screen TV and a reporter yelled " Why are you stealing that expensive television?". " Because George Floyd was killed by a white police officer!!!" I don't see the connection. One horrible crime does not give anyone the right to break the law. And Defund the police is stupid and dangerous. When I call 911 I want an armed officer, not a councilor.
January 6th was absolutely criminal and probably treason. That is not how Americans should behave either. I heard Trump claim the election was a fraud just after election day. He got more votes than he did when he defeated Hillary Clinton. I though okay you have a point and they claimed you cheated in 2016. Hire lawyers and investigators. But his own Attorney General and others looked into it and there just wasn't enough fraud to change the results. That is when he should have graciously threw in the towel. But apparently his Alaska size ego wouldn't allow that.
When Trump ran, NONE of the Republicans running for the nomination themselves and most of the party was squarely against Trump and found him to be self centered and dangerous. A divider and not possessing the temperament to be President.
Why did Trump decide to run for President? Apparently because President Obama ridiculed and embarrassed him to his face at the yearly dinner in Washington for the press.
Why did Obama do that? Because Trump pressured Obama to PROVE he was born in the United States! The President of the United States eventually had to show his birth certificate to the press and the world his birth certificate because of Donald J. Trump!! Enough to make anyone mad.
Now several Democrats are working hard to prove Trump is a criminal and should be the first X President to end up in jail.
This back and forth has been going on for about 8 years and it's dividing the country further and further.
President Biden is lost in this job. Things keep getting worse and worse. He or Harris aren't up to the job and Trump is a egotistical loon who likely would have been re-elected if Covid hadn't struck and his mismanagement of it hurt him with the independents. There are not enough loyal Democrats or Republicans for a Dem or GOP candidate to win without getting the larger share of independents. Independents will vote Democrat in one election and Republican in another.
We need a Democrat like Bill Clinton or Lyndon Johnson or a Republican like Richard Nixon ( if he would behave. Nixon was way smarter than Biden and Trump. Nixon, who said the best politician in his lifetime was LBJ) or a George H.W. Bush.
If we have Russia invading a NATO country or China invading it's little neighbor we are then just inches from World War Three. The U. S., Russia and China have enough power to destroy the entire world!!
Oh and while I'm flapping my 75 year old cracked lips trying to put up with the smell of Icy hot on my aching legs, gas just hit $4 dollars a gallon here. This will wipe out the Democrats in the midterms. Most people vote their pocket book. Not enough people out there who think much about abortion rights, gay and transgender rights, border walls or climate change to sway an election on way or the other. But high gas prices and high everything else most people have to buy is a killer for the people in office right now.
I guess we need to stop using Russian oil but it will leave little doubt a Democrat in Boston would have a struggle to win in the midterms:)! $5 dollar a gallon gas!?
So far Biden isn't ready to stop the 200,000 barrels we use everyday from Russia. I thought the U S. was now the largest producer of oil in the world. That is what Trump use to say or was that another lie?
I thought the U S. was now the largest producer of oil in the world. That is what Trump use to say or was that another lie?
Not a lie.
https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=709&t=6
I do not think Biden is lost, Harris might be.
It continues to amaze me how many votes Trump got in 2020. People vote for lots of different reasons...over 74 million, 46.8% of voters voted for Donald Trump. It is rather amazing. If another election would've been conducted on January 7th 2021 I wonder how many would've changed their minds? Some day this country is going to truly run off the rails.
@nebish Yes even after stating President Obama was not born in America and Senator Ted Cruz's father fired some of the shots at President Kennedy he still won. Trump was able to convince lots of conservative Republicans he was one of them and he wasn't and convinced the Christian right he was one of them and he wasn't. He did follow through by appointing conservative judges to the Supreme Court which pleased them but if Trump is a conservative Christian then maybe Obama is a Muslim:)
Biden seems confused and low energy to me. I remember Trump kept complaining Hillary Clinton was too low energy to be President then she collapsed at the 9/11 observance in lower Manhattan on national television. But Adam Schiff and other leading Democrats have been working hard since Trump was in 2016 to expose him as a fraud and con-man and a crook and unfit to be President. They failed twice to get Trump removed from office but man they are getting closer to charging Trump with several crimes. If they can get Trump arrested and convicted as a felon, then he can't run for office again. But it could start a civil war but there aren't enough people now who are that loyal to Trump are they? I know a few guys who think the country is so fractured now and the liberal left and the conservative right are so divided and so far apart now that the country will likely split with the blue states and red states forming their own country.
Biden is correct in not getting into a shooting war with Russia. They have thousands of atomic bombs! In October 1961 they exploded the most power nuclear bomb EVER detonated. We shouldn't press Putin too far as he may just nuke us.
Somebody should have painted the ABB logo on that mushroom cloud.
I thought they did the gigaton blast underground.
@jerry No the US also exploded nuclear weapons in the air and under the sea.
Here is more on the most powerful nuclear bomb EVER exploded. The Tsar Boma exploded above the Artic Circle by Russia.
Yes the Allman Brothers Band logo!! Everytime I saw them play is was.... A BLAST!!
@jerry No the US also exploded nuclear weapons in the air and under the sea.
Yes the Allman Brothers Band logo!! Everytime I saw them play is was.... A Blast!
I know that. I've seen the videos of people standing on rooftops in Las Vegas watching the tests.
Vacation packages were made around the test explosion dates.
I also remember from when i was going through my introduction to military intelligence that the Russians had exploded, in a deep, played out mine in Siberia, a one Gigaton, that's 1,000 megatons, thermonuclear device. Look on Google Earth and see if you can find a really big hole where a mountain used to be.
Teller, one of those who developed the H bomb, laid out plans for a 100 Gigaton device, had decided that just a couple would wipe out all life on Earth, and pushed for a 10 Gigaton device.
Fortunately, all plans were shelved, or at least that was what we were told.
They had no problem with the "peaceful protestors" across the country before January 6, why do they have their panties in a wad now?
Because there have been riots against police throughout our history, and across the world's history. We've all seen it a million times in our lives. But for an American sitting President to make a conscious attempt to turn his followers into a violent mob against our own Capitol, it's a first. That should answer your question.
but they were trying to disrupt the verification of the Electoral College votes and it got out of hand with the mob mentality that came about.
It came about by a man who knew he had enormous power over his followers, and used violent hostile rhetoric that morning, knowing he was taking advantage of them...knowing they'd land in jail, and he didn't care.
As far as overthrowing the government, don't you think destroying and burning police stations and public buildings is an attempt to overthrow local government?
It's to fight back against the tyranny of local government, but nobody thought there were going to take anything over.
I do agree with you that it shouldn't have happened in the way it did, but the media (THEY) have made everyone in the area into a criminal, or an accomplice of what happened. They (the media) want you to believe that every person close to the Capitol was involved.
I don't see it that way. They are shaming them for being there, but never heard them criminalize anyone except those that entered the building.
A representative group should have been allowed in to voice their protests (remember the ones yelling "He's not my president." during Trumps verification) and I think it wouldn't have turned out like it did.
Nobody stopped any group from filing for the proper protest permits, which means they WERE allowed. Some protestors were civil, others were far from it. It's different from the George Floyd protests because a trusted leader didn't urge them to set those fires. We had a traitor to the American people in office and he intentionally ruined his followers' lives, while the liberals who opposed him came out on top.
in addition-
the "protesters" were threatening to kill Pence and Pelosi
Several GOP members, including McCarthy, said at the time they were afraid for their lives (they have since stepped way back from that)
In his speech, Giuliani called for - and I quote directly, "trial by combat"
It bears repeating that the "protesters" goal was to stop the peaceful transfer of power. That transfer, in addition to the US having a President who is a "chief executive", not a monarch, ruler, or dictator, are the principles that this country was founded upon. It seems as if Trump and his followers have either forgotten that fact or perhaps never understood it.
Honestly the fact we have to argue about what happened that day is just a sad statement on how 1/2 of the country is just fine having the most ignorant amongst us as a leader.
I watch it in real time that day. We have a groups of people that live in some fantasy about what happened that day and the gaslighting is laughable
I agree. That some people continue to try to rationalize the actions of that day is almost as disappointing as the incident itself. What more did these people need to see before they realize it might not be the hill they want to die on? Many of the rioters who have reached plea deals have apologized, not all because it gets them out of jail, but because they realized their actions were way over the line in the wrong.
It was as plain as day, they provided their own rope so there is very little grey area for people who conspired to arm themselves and break into the Capitol with the intent to disrupt our government. But then again, there are people who have their feet dug in so deep they would sooner side with Russia than with their own countrymen.
but they were trying to disrupt the verification of the Electoral College votes and it got out of hand with the mob mentality that came about.
It came about by a man who knew he had enormous power over his followers, and used violent hostile rhetoric that morning, knowing he was taking advantage of them...knowing they'd land in jail, and he didn't care.
As far as overthrowing the government, don't you think destroying and burning police stations and public buildings is an attempt to overthrow local government?
It's to fight back against the tyranny of local government, but nobody thought there were going to take anything over.
I do agree with you that it shouldn't have happened in the way it did, but the media (THEY) have made everyone in the area into a criminal, or an accomplice of what happened. They (the media) want you to believe that every person close to the Capitol was involved.
I don't see it that way. They are shaming them for being there, but never heard them criminalize anyone except those that entered the building.
A representative group should have been allowed in to voice their protests (remember the ones yelling "He's not my president." during Trumps verification) and I think it wouldn't have turned out like it did.
Nobody stopped any group from filing for the proper protest permits, which means they WERE allowed. Some protestors were civil, others were far from it. It's different from the George Floyd protests because a trusted leader didn't urge them to set those fires. We had a traitor to the American people in office and he intentionally ruined his followers' lives, while the liberals who opposed him came out on top.
I feel that you and I will never agree on the subject, but I respect your views, and beliefs, of what happened.
But here are a few comments I have to make on yours.
What tyranny of the local government were the protesters fighting back against? Seems to me that many of the "protesters" had nothing to do with anything local. Case in point was those in Atlanta that didn't even live in Georgia that caused a majority of damage. Locals, in general, followed the curfews and protest limits (barricades) set up by police. There were a lot of "protesters" that hid from the police after the curfew, in areas they were not supposed to be in. Some had items (hammers, bricks, bats, and other items that can cause damage) on them or close by. I watched this live on Channel 2 Atlanta who reported that many were not "hometown" folks.
The protesters were not allowed in the Capitol building, according to the protest limits. BUT, I feel that if they had allowed a representative group in to voice their opinions, that events would have turned out differently. Again, I remember the crazy female screaming "He's not my president." at the certification for Trump. Was she inside? The videos I saw certainly show she was.
The media has caused people to lose their jobs because they were anywhere close to the Capitol. Folks on vacation and stopping to see the Capitol don't need to be shamed for being there. If you had been outside the fence would feel OK with the media continuously showing your face as being at the protests?
Like I said there are folks who will never see eye to eye about what happened, and that's OK. We just need to get rid of the divisiveness and start working together, get facts, not the party kool-aid or the slant the media wants to give.
The protesters were not allowed in the Capitol building, according to the protest limits. BUT, I feel that if they had allowed a representative group in to voice their opinions, that events would have turned out differently. Again, I remember the crazy female screaming "He's not my president." at the certification for Trump. Was she inside? The videos I saw certainly show she was.
The media has caused people to lose their jobs because they were anywhere close to the Capitol. Folks on vacation and stopping to see the Capitol don't need to be shamed for being there. If you had been outside the fence would feel OK with the media continuously showing your face as being at the protests?
Like I said there are folks who will never see eye to eye about what happened, and that's OK. We just need to get rid of the divisiveness and start working together, get facts, not the party kool-aid or the slant the media wants to give.
The three people who shouted during Trump's certification had tickets to the gallery, were arrested and removed for their disruption. Again, there were three of them and they passed through security and didn't assault anyone. Meanwhile, Donald Trump invited a huge mob back to the Capitol who forcefully broke in and assaulted police. So not the same.
The media hasn't caused anyone to lose their jobs. Everyone who entered the Capitol that day did so illegally, whether they broke a door or a window or not. They filmed themselves, their faces were posted by the FBI, even on their twitter feed, in an effort to identify them. The media may have reported it, but any employer could have easily found out where their employee went on "vacation" and committed a felony without picking up the paper or turning on the news.
This wasn't a case of a few protestors breaking store windows, this was a mob of people who conspired to enter the Capitol by force. Attempting to rationalize it is turning a blind eye to an abhorrent incident. These people committed an awful offense and broadcast themselves doing it. There's little to sympathize with, they made their own bed. People can agree with these peoples' politics, and still have the wisdom to condemn their methods and actions, which are indefensible.
The BLM protests and Jan 6 were totally different
There were in fact, many peaceful protesters at BLM.
There were also a lot of people who were violent. The violence was condemned. Cops through tear gas and shot rubber bullets at crowds, whether they were causing damage or not.
They didn't try to stop congress or any government authority from doing their job.
They were not endorsed by any major politician. I certainly won't defend anyone who was violent - I witnessed a peaceful demonstration in my town as I was driving home.
The Jan 6 protesters were endorsed and egged on by Trump and his henchmen. They threatened the lives of Congressmen, Senators, and the VP. They interrupted a joint session of Congress in progress.
There is no reason why any of them should have been let in. Everyone knew what they wanted, they could have voiced their opinions outside the capital without breaking in, causing damage, and injuring / killing capital police. That is what peaceful demonstration is all about.
Apples and Oranges
And I still feel that if a representative group was let in that events would have been different.
Who is trying to rationalize the jan 6 protesters forcing their way into the Capitol?
"The media may have reported it, but any employer could have easily found out where their employee went on "vacation" and committed a felony without picking up the paper or turning on the news." Huh? Isn't the paper and the news part of the media?
I've been trying to find the reports of people who were fired, because the media placed them at the Capitol during the time, but weren't part of the protest. The links are non existent now. I wonder why?
How about going back and reading my post on March 6.
And I still feel that if a representative group was let in that events would have been different.
To what purpose? If they were protesting, they could do so peacefully outside the barricades. Their representatives were literally on the House floor certifying the election. All they did was prove they shouldn't be let in, that they were terrorists and shouldn't be negotiated with.
Who is trying to rationalize the jan 6 protesters forcing their way into the Capitol?
You seem to be rationalizing and excusing their behavior by blaming the media.
"The media may have reported it, but any employer could have easily found out where their employee went on "vacation" and committed a felony without picking up the paper or turning on the news." Huh? Isn't the paper and the news part of the media?
I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I wrote any employer could have found out about their employee WITHOUT a newspaper or turning on the nightly news, i.e., without the aid of the media. Not sure what you didn't understand.
I've been trying to find the reports of people who were fired, because the media placed them at the Capitol during the time, but weren't part of the protest. The links are non existent now. I wonder why?
Again, the FBI released images these people broadcast themselves. In some cases family members turned them in to authorities, not to the media. Stop blaming the media, these people made their own bed in public fashion. This is an example of you attempting to excuse their actions.
@porkchopbob Isn't it amazing how the media is always the problem in their minds...not the fact they support stupidity and double down when called out for it.
What tyranny of the local government were the protesters fighting back against? Seems to me that many of the "protesters" had nothing to do with anything local. Case in point was those in Atlanta that didn't even live in Georgia that caused a majority of damage. Locals, in general, followed the curfews and protest limits (barricades) set up by police. There were a lot of "protesters" that hid from the police after the curfew, in areas they were not supposed to be in. Some had items (hammers, bricks, bats, and other items that can cause damage) on them or close by. I watched this live on Channel 2 Atlanta who reported that many were not "hometown" folks.
You asked why we had our panties in a wad over 1/6, and not the George Floyd riots. African Americans have been screaming at the top of their lungs since the 60s (and earlier), in every city, about police brutality - hence the protests in multiple cities.
The protesters were not allowed in the Capitol building, according to the protest limits. BUT, I feel that if they had allowed a representative group in to voice their opinions, that events would have turned out differently. Again, I remember the crazy female screaming "He's not my president." at the certification for Trump. Was she inside? The videos I saw certainly show she was.
I don't think many people will believe the crowd would have been civil had one person been let in. Nor do I think the crazy female kept an angry mob of Hillary supporters from storming inside threatening to kill the Speaker of the House.
Like I said there are folks who will never see eye to eye about what happened, and that's OK. We just need to get rid of the divisiveness and start working together, get facts, not the party kool-aid or the slant the media wants to give.
Obama never used divisive rhetoric, even as Fox News was trying as hard as they can to divide. Then came along a guy who said he wasn't American and demanded his birth certificate, and has been the leader of the Republican party ever since.
The thread asks for other ideas about 1/6, therefore, my apologies for not helping that happen. Let me start over. And this is the burning question/topic that I have about 1/6. Forget those who attended. Most days I don't blame them for any of it. They were sent there, knowing they'd be sacrificial lambs. They were told to turn on their country - the crooked federal judges, the crooked FBI, the crooked CIA, the crooked Democrats, the crooked election, while Russia is praised throughout.
Maybe Jerry's right - I do think it's time we stopped blaming those who attended, and start blaming the person who had a choice to fuel it or stop it, and we all saw what he chose. Had they been allowed to have one rep inside, it would have ended up differently - sure, I can admit that. But Jerry, should we not be redirecting that to say "Had Reagan, Bush Sr, or Bush Jr been President, none of them would have distrusted our democracy, and the whole event wouldn't have happened"?
If the Republican party would denounce him as a cancer that took advantage of people and makes the party weaker, then I see them winning in a landslide in 2024.
I do agree the primary fault sits with those who created and perpetuated the falsehoods that the election was somehow stolen and sent people marching towards the Capitol - Trump, Giuliani, the House members who objected, etc, should be held to a higher standard. Unfortunately it is difficult to prosecute someone for the idea they put in someone else's head, nor what they do with that idea.
Those members of the House who objected were their representatives, no need to give further credence to the lies - it wasn't Congress' place to placate an angry mob born out of misinformation. And while not everyone who stepped through the broken doors and windows had zip ties and firearms, they still need to be held accountable. Many have reached plea deals, accepted the consequences of their own actions. That's a start.
Anyone else find it disconcerting that the wife of a SCOTUS justice was among the behind-the-scenes leaders of events leading to Jan 6 & was particularly angry that Pence didn't seem likely to co-operate? Her trail of texts to Mark Meadows is quite emphatic about her position & The Big Steal. She didn't storm the Capitol but she did attend the rally that preceded it. If she was actively involved in planning the insurrection, she should be prosecuted.
I'm not a fan of Justice Thomas but he's not responsible for anything his wife does. Calls for his removal are inappropriate. He just has to recuse himself if any matters related to Jan 6 make it to SCOTUS.
Yes, I for one find it very troubling. But not at all surprising given her record and history with right wing politics. For instance her “consulting” fees she earned by supposedly advising a number of right wing groups starting in the late 90’s. One such entity that filed briefs with the courts during the Bush/Gore election controversy that ultimately was ruled on by the Supreme Court. A case Thomas obviously voted on. For Bush I might add.
This latest dust up does make me wonder why Thomas didn’t recuse himself from the recent ruling by the Supreme Court that Trump must release his official presidential documents and communications to the Jan. 6th commission. Thomas voted in the minority that trump didn’t need to...
What’s also interesting is that unlike the other federal courts and the justices that serve on them, the Supreme Court is a self regulating body when it comes to certain reporting requirements. Help me out here Cyclone and others, but I believe outside sources of income are only reported if the individual justice chooses to. Nothing requires them to do so.
