How many people died where hydroxychloroquine was used in a study for prophylaxis? How do you know so boldly it doesn't work for prophylaxis use?

I am providing evidence we don't yet know the effectiveness of this drug for that use because studies are ongoing.

If you make such a bold definitive statement please be prepared to back it up...or else it will grow tiresome for you.

President Trump disclosed that he was taking hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) with zinc to protect himself against COVID-19—with the approval of his physicians. Although some in the media may find this startling or concerning, the Association of American Physicians & Surgeons (AAPS) states that thousands and probably millions of people worldwide are doing likewise.

In the U.S., however, patients and physicians who wish to use this long-approved drug, taken safely by 100 million patients over 70 years, are running into barriers set up by the FDA, governors, and state bureaucracies. Among the reports brought to the attention of AAPS is that of a family physician who cannot obtain HCQ for his nursing-home patients.

“It is perfectly legal for physicians to prescribe an approved drug for a newly discovered indication, and very frequently done,” states AAPS. “It is unprecedented for licensure boards to threaten pharmacists who dispense or physicians who prescribe ‘off-label.’”

“Basic science research from 15 years ago provides solid reason to expect that HCQ could be effective early in COVID-19, preventing hospitalization and death, and clinical experience from the U.S. and around the globe bears this out,” states AAPS. “It is not likely to work well in seriously sick patients, the only ones who can get it under the FDA’s emergency use authorization (EUA).”

In late April, the FDA issued a new special warning about potential heart problems from use of HCQ in COVID-19—which advises patients with other conditions to continue taking it because benefits exceed the risks.

“The benefit of potentially preventing thousands of hospitalizations and deaths vastly exceeds the risks of HCQ, which has an outstanding safety record,” states AAPS. “And if President Trump’s doctor can prescribe it, why can’t yours?”

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) has represented physicians of all specialties in all states since 1943. The AAPS motto is omnia pro aegroto, meaning everything for the patient.

Turkish company develops hydroxychloroquine drug
Hydroxychloroquine is being used by doctors to treat COVID-19 symptoms

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/turkey/turkish-company-develops-hydroxychloroquine-drug/1834022

French doctors renew bid to clear HCQ to treat Covid-19 ahead of lockdown exit

http://www.rfi.fr/en/france/20200505-french-doctors-renew-push-to-clear-malaria-drug-hydroxychloroquine-to-secure-covid-19-lockdown-exit

So I think Trump is a moron but I have included the 3 articles above to ask how did this drug discussion become all about Trump? Amd to show I don't have any agenda here beyond asking that question here is an article why New York doctors have moved away from using it.

from the article linked below.

It wasn’t just Trump: Governor Andrew Cuomo also expressed optimism about hydroxychloroquine’s potential. But studies, including one that looked at 600 patients in the New York City area, were inconclusive.

“Basically it was not seen as a positive. Not seen as a negative. And didn’t really have much of an effect on the recovery rate,” Cuomo said of the results during a CNN town hall on April 23.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/05/07/hospitals-in-nyc-abandon-hydroxychloroquine-treatment-touted-by-trump-

The drug has been around for decades. It is not going to kill Trump.

My buddies wife was put on it for lupus, caused a serious Cardiac Arythmia in her?.........joe

I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a shit if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]

I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a shit if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]

I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.

It's becoming more and more obvious that this whole thing is an elaborate hoex by Trump to sell Hydrochloiriqine.

I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a shit if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]

I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.

agree - the conversation has been taken to the wrong place. imo that's partlu Trumps fault, but partly all of us and the media.
and yes, I'm sure there are well intentioned docs who are prescibing it. I'm not being critical of them per se.
There was a huge rush on the drug when this first hit the news. Everyone wanted it, so people like crazyjoe's wife who have been on it and needed it couldn't get it.
The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.

The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.

That doesn't seem fair. They are going to make Trump declare bankruptcy again.

I have a little knowledge here in that when I am not posting on message boards, my day job is a cardiologist.

Chloroquine can cause changes in the EKG that can lead to lethal arrhythmias. People taking it should have ekgs monitored on a semi regular basis. If they are taking 2 drugs that cause the same thing, for example azithromycin, the drug that was initially used with chloroquin, then the risks are higher. Other drugs or other conditions can increase the risk.

Is it a dangerous drug? In the grand scheme of things, when given properly, no. Certain situations are riskier than others and more caution is required.

Have people died from it? yes

Should Trump be taking it? Studies are being done to see what the benefit of it is. Right now, it shouldn't be given for covid 19 unless the patient is part of a clinical trial.

Personally, I don't give a shit if he is taking it. I don't think he, or anyone, should be espousing it publicly because we just don't know. That's not a political statement (discolsure - I hate him) but we just can't state one way or the other if there is a benefit. The initial report was promising, later data less so. There have been MANY times where initial data looked good, but when put to the proper test it didn't pan out. We don't know. It's not benign.

[Edited on 5/20/2020 by stormyrider]

I get all that and agree ( heck we can even take Trump's name out entirely ) that no President should be advocating for a particular drug in this way. Do you agree though that it is unfortunate that this drug is now largely being discussed only though a filter of Trimp says blah blah? There are clearly doctors who are not crazy quacks who do still think this is useful in early treatment of covid patients.

agree - the conversation has been taken to the wrong place. imo that's partlu Trumps fault, but partly all of us and the media.
and yes, I'm sure there are well intentioned docs who are prescibing it. I'm not being critical of them per se.
There was a huge rush on the drug when this first hit the news. Everyone wanted it, so people like crazyjoe's wife who have been on it and needed it couldn't get it.
The Gov of NH actually prohibited docs from prescribing it to new patients who weren't in a trial.

Thank you for professional perspective. My contention is that no one would know about the drug except lupus & malaria pts were it not for Trump & his TV Dr Oz flogging it based on Trump's "good feeling."

My day job for the past 20 years as legal counsel includes supervising drug trials at 4 Manhattan hospitals, 2 in the Bronx, selected DOD hospitals & sitting on the IRBs for human research trials. I know what stops trials, I know what gets shredded, & I know what #s get "massaged." So, I'm more cynical & blunt that a physician.

In this case, the best that can be said about it is exactly what you said - "it's not benign."

After Dr. Bright was fired for not throwing $ at the drug & the 1st halted trial due to cardiac complications/deaths in April, it (& Dr. Oz) disappeared from Fox news. Other more promising drugs were given more research money & attention.The public heard nothing more until Trump announced he was taking it - after his exposure to COVID19 through his valet - & Dr. Bright's whistleblower testimony on the same day.

I was stunned that a man who has 3 categories of COVID19 risk - age, obesity, cardiac arrhythmia - would be prescribed the drug. His doctor - who may or may not be a cardiologist - released the statement that he & Trump had the customary risk/benefit analysis discussion.

As POTUS, Trump will be closely monitored. No one is concerned he'll die from the drug. What I believe to be the more likely outcome is that Trump's arrhythmia will worsen & he'll quietly stop taking the drug. As you said, we know that it shouldn't be given to people for COVID19 outside of a hospital or clinical trial.

I despise Trump going back to his alleged heydays in the 1980s in NYC. However, I don't think the US should have both a Prez & a VP sick w/COVID19. I've never understood why the two weren't separated from Day 1, why masks weren't mandatory in the WH, & why Pence's promise to wear a mask lasted 2 days. Both seem cavalier even after exposure.

The topic of this thread is whether Trump is really taking the drug or is it puffery. I found it alarming that the POTUS w/all his risk factors would take an at best "not benign" & at worst, potentially lethal drug knowing full well that what he does is copied by his MAGA supporters. He knows how influential he is to his supporters & the shortage of the drug for lupus pts is an example of that.