quote:I never thought I would see the day that Republicans especially would be ok with this.
quote:You are right, the USA has been guilty of meddling in other countries elections.
quote:
quote: Not sure how much Putin spent to meddle in the election, but it has paid off beyond his wildest dreams.
What have they done to capitalize on it? Paid off...in the sense they are getting something out of it so now they can do something or act in some way that they haven't before. What has that been, or are they just bidding their time? Where is their ROI?
Valid questions, Neb.
I have never seen so much angst directed at one individual. He sure brings it on himself, but anything Trump elicits a reaction that far eclipses anything directed at Bush 43 or even Obama.
Again I ask - just how was this election thrown in the favor of Trump? I have voted predominately Republican since I was 18, and I didn't vote for this clown.
The biggest thing is the fact that Bernie supporters were so turned off by the information that was leaked about the DNC is that they didn't support Clinton. I do not think anyone has tried to equate that to a number of votes that were potentially lost, but that is the angle...people that might've otherwise supported the Democrat nominee were influenced by the Russian campaign into not doing so.
It very well could've played some role in the outcome, but I think that most fair thinking people would acknowledge there are and were a host of issues that contributed to the results of 2016. Russian interference gets all the attentions, because, well, it is rather a big deal, but that does lose focus on the other causes of why we are where we are.
The questions about what actually Russia is getting, I mean I hear and believe people when they say "Russians have weakened US-NATO alliances", "Russians have further driven a wedge in our society's political differences" (as if it wasn't bad enough already) - those things are true, I just wonder ultimately from their point of view what does that lead to? Flexing more muscle abroad in other geo-political matters? And so what if they do really? More invasions of former Soviet countries? Must an engaged US be the only deterrent to their bad behavior, what role must the rest of the world play in corralling them? Trump has 2 more years in office (if he goes full term), so just when are they going to get their great "pay off" and what does it really mean for them when we will have another President in 2021?
Let's start with the bipartisan sanctions imposed by congress that Trump never put into effect, add sharing intelligence Israeli intelligence with Russia when they asked him not to. And then take a look of the long list of gifts Trump has given Putin in this article.
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/422580-the-gift-of-the-magi-trumps-presents-for-putin
Let's start with the bipartisan sanctions imposed by congress that Trump never put into effect, add sharing intelligence Israeli intelligence with Russia when they asked him not to. And then take a look of the long list of gifts Trump has given Putin in this article.
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/422580-the-gift-of-the-magi-trump s-presents-for-putin
No one single payoff, they are wearing us down, working their way into our business. It is a protracted game, this didn't start with Trimp - at present we are able to see it operating, because of the obvious connections between this admin and Russia. Huge payoffs in the Ukraine. Huge. Clinton vs Trump was basically the Ukrainian civil war for the Russians. Who will contol the pipelines to Europe from Eurasia, all that. It is way bigger than our little political circus.
OK, fair points raised you two. Some things do add up, but still, I mean come on...the Kuril Islands, that is one of the things the hill article leads with. Good, I'm glad that the US can never have troops there. I mean you never want to say never, but fewer places we can deploy troops around the globe the better. Controlling pipelines in Europe? Seriously? This is something we need to care about?
Look, I may've missed the mark on Russia isn't getting anything out of this administration's blind eye or out right favors.
Here is what bothers me and I think will draw us all together, what are we getting out of this? If Russia is happy with this or that or the other thing, fine - whatever, Russia can have more influence (and headaches) in the middle east. But, by us ceding that to them, where are we gaining? Does anyone find it strange that the North Koreans would pull the trigger on their missile launch shortly after Kim's trip to Russia? If Russia was on our side then I would think they can levy influence over a country like NK (much like China can when they want). But Russia isn't on our side, just every now and then they come through on something that is important to us and we turn away on something that is important to them. That is the sell, right? That Trump has some kind of ability to work with Russia to get them to do things we want. Well, I'm waiting, just like all of you to see where and when that is going to happen. Maybe it never happens. And Russia gets all their small victories on things that are important to them and we get nothing. I don't care about what they get, I care about what we don't get that we should get, or want to get. That is where the failure is in my eyes. It's fine and dandy for some of these adversary countries to have more latitude with their agendas, but only if we are netting something in the process. That is not happening. So I suppose we could say we all agree on the bottom line which end of the day bottom line is what matters most.
Seems to be the Liberal/Leftist/Democratic mantra, no matter what the hatred of the President "trumps" all else.
Pretty sad and if the left hopes to gain the WH in 2020 there better be more to your platform than embarrassment.
Considering the literal mantra for the 2016 Republican Convention was "anyone but her", and it actually worked, you either have a short memory or are being pretty hypocritical. And considering there are Republicans out there who have denounced or questioned Trump's actions and behavior, it's not just a "mantra" these days.
Are you talking about the ABC (Anybody But Clinton) saying? Wasn't that on the same level as the ABB (Anybody But Bush) phrased used on this website quite frequently in 2012?
I was an ABC voter, and I'm independent. I just could not in good consciousness vote for her.
Blessed be the ignorant! How was I to know this quivering turd was the devil's gimp??? Absolutely horrifying..............wishing Peace........and shaking my mutherphucking head..........joe
