@cyclone88 Well Trump's lawyers have just proved this is nothing more than absolute and deep seated HATE for Donald Trump. And they played clips of Democrat after Democrat saying the same crazy things that Trump said.
Joe Biden: " Get out there and fight like hell and take this country back" " I'd like to take Donald Trump out back and beat the hell out of him"
Videos of Nancy Pelosi and Hilary Clinton saying Trump stole the 2016 election and cheated and is not a legitimate president. Clinton said " The 2016 election WAS STOLEN FROM ME and Donald Trump knows he is not a legitimate president".
Maxine Waters in several videos inciting violence against Trump supporters and once saying " I'm going to take Trump out tonight ".
Chuck Schumer on video threatening a member of the Supreme Court Justice Kavanaugh.
And dozens more. Are you watching?
I'm a moderate Democrat. Not a Trump man. But I believe in fairness. This country is so far apart now than at anytime since the civil war.
Trump's lawyers just one this thing for him. Doubt one Republican will vote to convict now.
It's over so let's move on to more pressing matters facing this country. I'm sick of Trump continuing to be the focus of the Democratic party.
So, did any violence result from any of those Democrats rhetoric? Did it result in a mob trying to overtake Congress?
And no, what happened in Portland and other places last summer were not the same. I don't remember any Democrats calling for burning, looting, or violence. If they did, then they should be removed. I seem to remember Democrats supporting peaceful protests and condemning violence. If it was only peaceful protests of Trump supporters on January 6th, we wouldn't have this impeachment. They are in no way similar.
The major, major, MAJOR differences in the comments of the mentioned Democrats was that they were made either in television interviews or in small "civil" gatherings - while NOT being President of the United States. Trump chose to perpetrate actual LIES and bovine excrement about a "stolen election" to an angry and fomented audience that he DIRECTED to march onto the grounds of the United States capitol. Members of this mob (and that is really what it was) were visibly clad in para-military garb and according to some, had actually been summoned to be there by Trump, himself. Cut to video of Trump - historically summoning his followers to "beat the crap outta that guy and I guarantee to pay the legal fees ..." and other similar actualities during his campaign and tenure. Major differences in tone and context.
More troubling was Trump's decision to remain quiet while all of this was playing out - not personally summoning the National Guard HIMSELF (than you, Pence!).
But this is the modern day Teflon Don. He'll wade out of this septic ditch without a fly on him.
Well guys the Republicans will not vote to convict especially after seeing clips of so many Dems saying the same stuff Trump said about fighting like hell, get in these Republicans faces in a restaurant or a gas station and tell them they are not welcome here and to get out. Hillary saying the election was stolen from her and Trump is not legitimate. John Lewis saying Trump is not legitimate and cheated to STEAL the election from Hillary. Joe Biden saying on the campaign trail he would love to take Trump out back and beat the hell out of him. Corey Booker saying sometimes he wants to punch Trump in the face. And on and on. They are not going to convict and Trump will not be barred from running again so it's time to move on.
If there is legal exposure for Trump, then he will be indicted but that is not up to Congress. There needs to be legal exposure to all the thugs who attacked the Capital and perhaps Trump too.
The Dems need to stop the Trump thing before they shoot themselves in the foot. They have been calling him illegitimate and should be impeached since the first day Trump took office. Move on to Covid and healthcare and jobs. The Republicans are already claiming Biden's energy policy is going to cost 27 million good paying jobs, crash the economies of Wyoming, New Mexico, Texas and raise the price of gasoline to 4 dollars a gallon. If we get all that by this time next year the Republicans will win the house and Senate in 2022. 4 dollar a gallon gas will piss off the working class. I hope the Biden administration will not get heavy handed with fossil fuels and get voted out of office and maybe give it to Trump in 2024.
An A list of Hollywood stars are demanding in a letter to Biden he CANCEL AND SHUT DOWN all pipelines and stop the export of fossil fuels. How in hades can he do that when he promised the oil workers in several states he would not ban fracking?? I can frack for gas and oil but I can't ship it to markets?? Hollywood KNOWS Biden promised NOT to ban fracking. They need to shut up. They can afford 4 dollar gas. Most working class can not and it will hurt Biden. Biden already has a labor union mad at him. A union that supported him but he axed Keystone XL and the president of the union now has a lot of angry members looking at him.
For a poster who claimed a few hours ago he was done with this thread that's quite the diatribe there, Robert.....Time to stop believing the garbage the right wing media complex keeps screaming in your ear.
Trust me when i tell you gasoline isn't going away, it won't be $4 a gallon anytime soon, and the economies of New Mexico, Texas, Wyoming, etc. won't implode.
Oh and by the way, despite what you may have heard, Biden and the Dems. are well on their way to addressing the Covid mess Trumpster left them with as well as shoring up health care in general. Despite Trump's and Mitch's best effort at taking said healthcare away from 22 million people, the Affordable Care Act, for all its flaws, is here to stay. And so is that socialist Medicare program you've enjoyed for nearly a decade....
And brace yourself for this one, Biden and the Dems. are doing all sorts of things to improve the lives of average Americans all while they're distracting you with this impeachment nonsense.....The bastards! How dare they NOT devote their entire platform to enriching the .01% and lining their own pockets....Son of bitches socialists!!!!
@chain I'm 74 ( just got my second Covid shot yesterday) and the other guys my age I know are keeping up with this more than me. According to a couple of them the Governors of Texas, New Mexico and Wyoming and several states Attorneys General are taking Biden to court to get the Keystone XL pipeline reversed and save the thousands of great paying jobs lost because of Biden's executive order.
And pausing new oil and gas leases for 60 days for review and probably NEVER granting new oil and gas leases on federal lands will ruin the economy in se eral states such as New Mexico and Wyoming where the majority of state revenue comes from these leases. Schools, hospitals and the general economy will collapse from the loss of this revenue.
I'm telling you if Biden and the Democrats go too far left they will lose everything in 2022 and 2024.
Maybe a lot of young people want socialism but not people over 50 and certainly not people in the Cuban neighborhoods in Miami. Indeed they KNOW what life under socialism is like. It SUCKS!!
One of my closest friends is in Ireland living now. They have government run socialized medicine. Yes everyone gets coverage but you wait months sometimes to get a hip replacement or gallstones removed. You don't call your doctors office, you have to deal with government bureaucracy, red tape and websites with all these hoops to jump through.
But according to Biden HE IS NOT A SOCIALIST. Biden said the socialist candidate ( Sanders?) lost!
I hope you are right. If we get 4 dollar gas over the next 4 years Biden will loose in 2024.
If Sanders had won I was going to hold my nose and vote for Trump. But it was Biden so I was relieved. I hope a socialist never wins the White House or socialism ever controls the congress. Socialism is bad.*
* Not talking about social programs such as social security. Talking about government socialism taking over parts of the economy such as healthcare, pharmaceuticals, energy, banking, transportation etc.
Okay this time I'm done. Actually I don't enjoy arguing with my friends about politics, religion, evolution, age of the earth, etc. Its so taxing.
To continue to beat a dying horse - yes, there was a time in THIS country where firing squads were prescribed for traitors and treasoners. I don't believe that a president has ever been punished further than a slap on the wrist ... for anything. Impeachment ... what does that even mean? Can't be president again? Does an impeached president lose his/her pension or post-presidential rights and privileges? Cancel-cultured and not allowed to appear in sneaker advertisements?
All this got me to thinking about history. For shits and grins, I Googled "beheaded kings". Ended up with the story of Charles I.
Charles I - England's beheaded King. Pissed off his subjects by marrying a French Princess ... something like this. When the loyals got their knickers in a wad, he responded by dissolving Parliament - and I ain't talkin' about Bootsy Collin's band. Oliver Cromwell didn't like this - got the ball rolling and Charlie lost his head.
Charles I's decisions and ideas to do an end-run around laws remind me of some of Trump's spectacular, ego-driven behavior. Charlie paid a price ... Donny will likely walk away relatively unscathed. That heavily-sprayed orange comb-over will certainly stay on his shoulders. Did I digress?
I've pointed out before that Trump's ... level of participation in events that led to human carnage were at about the same level as another famous Charles - who, while never committing murder personally, did inspire his own sheep to carry out now historic and infamous levels of carnage at the Tate-Labianca mansion. That Charles lived rent-free for the rest of his life. I've also pointed to the fact that Hollywood moms who sought higher level education for their offspring got more for their crimes than Donny boy will ever see. Yeah, I know - this is not about punishment. Leaves me wondering exactly what is the point of all this?
That Cromwell dude? Posthumously convicted of treason, himself. They dug his corpse up and hanged him. Killed him twice, as if such a thing were possible. Warren Zevon couldn't have contrived something like this ... he tried ("he dug up her grave and made a cage with her bones - "excitable boy" they all said ..."
Up too early this morning ... switching to de-caf now.
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/king-charles-i-executed-for-treason
Great pre-decaf parallel between 2 Charles.
The point of all this? To establish that future presidents can't gather an armed mob & point them in the direction of the Capitol to overturn the business of Congress in accepting election results, abdicate the presidential duty to uphold the constitution, and actually refuse to defend the legislators from bodily harm - all because for the 1st time in his life he L-O-S-T (or so he claims; he actually loses a lot).
Should there ever be another president tempted to cancel say, the Supreme Court because he didn't like their opinion, he'd be tossed out of the WH & out of public office.
My question is would these GOP senators vote to convict if the mob had actually hanged Pence w/Trump on the phone cheering them on?
... My question is what would have happened had the mob had actually hanged Pence w/Trump on the phone cheering them on?
I'm really, really glad that it did not go that far. But there's a part of me that wonders if Trump would've received anything more than a "frowned upon" for such an extreme. God, he might have even gotten "un-friended" on Facebook or something! 😉
I think Facebook cancelled his account or at least twitter did. Those companies have more guts than McConnell who announced his decision to acquit - due to the jurisdictional issue the Senate voted on at the beginning of the trial so it could proceed. Another guy who doesn't like being told no.
So far, only a headline: SENATE VOTES TO ACQUIT TRUMP
Now, can we get that vaccine roll-out working again?
Speaking strictly from a moral standpoint, there is a difference between "acquitted" and "not guilty". 😉
... My question is what would have happened had the mob had actually hanged Pence w/Trump on the phone cheering them on?
I'm really, really glad that it did not go that far. But there's a part of me that wonders if Trump would've received anything more than a "frowned upon" for such an extreme. God, he might have even gotten "un-friended" on Facebook or something! 😉
We are talking full on cult here. He was free to do anything and he would never have been convicted. Trump continues to destroy the GOP even after leaving office. If actual criminal charges are brought against him and prosecutors can weed out the cult, he could have been convicted. In a real trial the jury isn't allowed to advise the defense attorneys.
We are talking full on cult here. He was free to do anything and he would never have been convicted. Trump continues to destroy the GOP even after leaving office. If actual criminal charges are brought against him and prosecutors can weed out the cult, he could have been convicted. In a real trial the jury isn't allowed to advise the defense attorneys.
He's not just destroyed the GOP, he's made a mockery of democracy & opened the door wide for domestic & international terrorists.
In a "real" trial, the victims wouldn't be the jury.
Predictable outcome. Not even one GOP mind was changed. Well, that's done.
The question remains for me is does McConnell get a deposit in an off-shore bank account for every Trump vote he delivered over the 4 years or are his house & car wired w/explosives that only Trump can set off?
When McConnell says that, "Trump is to blame (for the insurgence)" - but votes to acquit him - that's a clear indication that he's NOT voting his conscience. This is all about politics. Is anybody here stunned?
We are talking full on cult here. He was free to do anything and he would never have been convicted. Trump continues to destroy the GOP even after leaving office. If actual criminal charges are brought against him and prosecutors can weed out the cult, he could have been convicted. In a real trial the jury isn't allowed to advise the defense attorneys.
He's not just destroyed the GOP, he's made a mockery of democracy & opened the door wide for domestic & international terrorists.
In a "real" trial, the victims wouldn't be the jury.
Trump is now emboldened more so than after the first impeachment. There's nothing he can't do that the GOP Senators will do anything about. Nothing is in his way politically to stop him. Legally - that's a different matter.
Like Don Jr said on Jan 6. "This is Donald Trump's Republican Party". I hope all who voted for him & all the House and Senate Members who are chicken$hit can sleep at night. Mitch & McCarthy fear the man. They are driven by political ambition and the perks that their jobs provide. Doing the right things, democracy, and the Constitution are not even a thought with these a'holes.
As to the sycophants like Cruz & Rubio both of whom were eviscerated and made to be little boys by Trump yet both became cheerleaders, we know both have aspirations to run as president again. Jeez - what happens if Trump decides to run again. All the loyalty they bestowed, all the sellout votes they took on behalf of Trump will go out the window. Trump will go after them again as well as their families just as he did leading up to 2016. And they will deserve every bit of what Trump dishes out. Anyone who has aspirations of running in the next prez cycle will have to rebuke Trump - Cotton, Cruz, Rubio, etc. What a movie that'll be.
There are rumblings that Ivanka might run for Senate vs Little Marco. How do we think that plays out if she runs? What role does Donald Trump play in support - think he speaks favorably of Marco?
Jan 6 was a sad sad day for the USA. People lost their lives in carrying out Trump's wishes. Today was also a terrible day for for the USA. No President in the history of the USA has ever done the things that Trump did and walked away w/out retribution. Facts & evidence mean nothing anymore. Remember as Trump said to McCarthy, the insurrections cared more about the election outcome than McCarthy. How pathetic. And insurrections are patriots in Trump's mind, and the Senate validated that today.
Donald Trump is a threat to the future of the GOPQ. That is bad enough, but screw the GOPQ. They dug their own hole. Let them live in it. What is worse is that he has been & is a threat to the USA.
Heard all but the first few minutes of McConnell's speech after the vote today. He assigned blame and sounded like somebody who would've voted to convict, but says it's not constitutional - or does he just want it both ways? Sure as was said after Rand Paul's constitutional motion, that the Senate does not determine constitutionality. So what is a Senator to do...cast a vote that they think violates the constitution or back the constitution and let the person responsible for the situation that erupted on January 6th off the hook? If their duty is to uphold the constitution then I guess they only have one way to vote?
I don't know. Charge the guy criminally for everything he did where applicable, to me, that is what would really matter. These are just politicians doing political things.
McConnell has to be in deep w/Trump. He hasn't spoken to him since the election, publicly said Trump lost, facilitated the transition w/Pence to Biden, & said Trump's responsible but votes to acquit when the senate already voted the trial was constitutional. He couldn't be more obvious. Money or mortal fear; he is not acting independently.
To anyone who keeps saying charge Trump criminally, the constitutional provision for a president's crimes is impeachment. He was impeached, tried, & acquitted. The End.
Just who does anyone think is going to charge & arrest Trump now? He's already been tried. Double jeopardy ring any bells?
This will be in the media for the Sun chats & hopefully, that's the last we'll hear about Trump for a very long time unless he's actually charged for his various sexual assaults in NY, NJ, & FL or federal tax fraud.
CNN has previously reported that federal investigators could look at everyone involved in the unrest at the US Capitol, including the role Trump played in inciting the crowd, according to the acting US attorney in Washington.Asked directly by a reporter in January if investigators were looking at the role Trump played at the rally, acting US Attorney Michael Sherwin had said, "We're looking at all actors here and anyone that had a role and, if the evidence fits the elements of the crime, they're going to be charged."
Is an impeachment trial considered the same thing as a criminal trial for double jeopardy? I could be completely wrong, but there is no real punishment with the impeachment conviction. Removal from office? He's already gone. Making him ineligible for ever holding public office again? Who knows if he would ever seek it, you can't take his word for anything. That would be like telling a 75 year old CEO they can't be on a board or executive management again after they already retired.
We all just want him to go away. Atleast off the front pages. Time to move on with life without Trump, whatever happens to him now legally is for the courts.
... Just who does anyone think is going to charge & arrest Trump now? He's already been tried. Double jeopardy ring any bells? ...
Okay then, what about a CIVIL trial? You know - like that OJ guy? Can families of those who were killed in violence of the insurgence, as well as those who received psychological damages (like the entire American population!) sue Trump for damages?
This is the concept: Everyone in the US who commits a crime is indicted & charged in a state court for state crimes & federal court for federal crimes UNLESS the person who commits the crime happens to be POTUS; POTUS is impeached by the HR & tried by the Senate.
The defendant is tried according to the state or federal statute for the crime & according to the rules of procedure for the state or federal crime.
POTUS is tried according to the constitutional article regarding impeachment & according to the rules created by the Senate for that particular trial.
That's it. There's one set of rules for everyone in the US & another for POTUS.
Is an impeachment trial considered the same thing as a criminal trial for double jeopardy? I could be completely wrong, but there is no real punishment with the impeachment conviction. Removal from office? He's already gone. Making him ineligible for ever holding public office again? Who knows if he would ever seek it, you can't take his word for anything. That would be like telling a 75 year old CEO they can't be on a board or executive management again after they already retired.We all just want him to go away. Atleast off the front pages. Time to move on with life without Trump, whatever happens to him now legally is for the courts.
You have it exactly right. The rules for POTUS aren't same as the rest of us. The purpose of impeachment is not punishment but to get him out of office & never able to hold it again because he's so treacherous & dangerous to democracy & the governance of America.
The CEO analogy is a good one. I've been saying this since 1/6 - Trump will be 78 in 4 years, he's broke & will be living off the generosity of his uber rich friends or whatever he can steal from fake PACs. I was wrong about him being elected & may be wrong again, but I don't think the US will be clamoring for him to run again & he may be in jail for other crimes. A vote to convict would've cost the GOP senators almost nothing - it's both laughable & frightening that they're terrified to cross him. I'd think the vote should've been 100 to 0 by the jurors who were also victims of his mob w/their lives in danger.
NOTE TO SELF:
1. Invent Time Machine
2. Go back to days of my youth
3. Get one of those gigs (POTUS, for example) where impeachment is the only possible punishment
4. Go HAWG-FREAKIN' WILD!
@cyclone88 " ... Trump will be 78 in four years ...."
You're right - waaaay too old to be President! Oh, wait a sec ...
There are so many parallels between the OJ & Trump trials I feel like I relived OJ's. The outcome was predetermined. His Dream Team could've been a lone public defender & he would've been acquitted. He was sued for wrongful death in a civil trial & the jury found in favor of the victim's families. He, too, had no money by that time and the Goldman family has collected pennies if anything from the $30mm award.
No one was killed or injured by Trump.
There are so many parallels between the OJ & Trump trials I feel like I relived OJ's. The outcome was predetermined. His Dream Team could've been a lone public defender & he would've been acquitted. He was sued for wrongful death in a civil trial & the jury found in favor of the victim's families. He, too, had no money by that time and the Goldman family has collected pennies if anything from the $30mm award.
No one was killed or injured by Trump.
That's where the Manson analogy comes in.
Okay then, what about a CIVIL trial? You know - like that OJ guy? Can families of those who were killed in violence of the insurgence, as well as those who received psychological damages (like the entire American population!) sue Trump for damages?
Well, rusty, you are clairvoyant. A black representative Bennie G. Thompson from Mississippi has filed a civil suit in federal court in DC against Trump, Guiliani, Oath Keepers (a non-profit corp.), & Proud Boys International (who knew they were international?) under the 1871 "Ku Klux Klan Act" designed to prevent public officials from conducting their business by violence, conspiracies, & intimidation. Thompson, Trump, & Guiliani are all named as persons rather than by their occupations. Thompson is seeking a judgment declaring the acts illegal, ordering them never to do it again, plus unspecified monetary damages & attorney fees.
This isn't quite what you mentioned - a personal injury/wrongful death suit - but it's a federal suit against Trump under what seems like a parallel situation - KKK violence after the Civil War that disrupted various government proceedings. I've never heard of this statute, but that means nothing - it could be famous to Civil Rights attorneys. A statement announced the NAACP is "helping" Thompson present the suit.
If the suit doesn't get tossed, it might expose other criminal activity at least from the militia groups. Because I don't want to hear about Trump again, I'm not following this. My legal interest is outweighed by my complete lack of interest in the former president.
@cyclone88 Anything that'll cost Trump $money in legal fees! Might not amount to much more than urinating up a waterfall, but I'll be pulling for the plaintiff!
