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so when is the Fillmore West Archive to be released.

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steved
(@steved)
Posts: 469
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So... how about that Allman Brothers Band. I hear their pretty good.


 
Posted : August 21, 2019 1:00 pm
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 21, 2019 1:14 pm
DOVETAIL
(@dovetail)
Posts: 342
Reputable Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]

Gosh, don't wanna sound disingenuous or unreasonable here----especially in light of previous discussions on the topic in this very thread---but would it not be the responsibility of the producers of this package to thoroughly research those details In pre-production, before manufacturing?! I am having the most difficult time understanding why the curators would not apply a rigor to their efforts comparable to that which the band applied to its music. And please don't hint or come right out and say such effort is not worth the time and/or money in proportion to the potential sales:by that logic, this package should be budget-priced!?!?!


 
Posted : August 21, 2019 2:52 pm
matt05
(@matt05)
Posts: 1017
Noble Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]

thanks. i guess we'll know soon enough


 
Posted : August 21, 2019 2:57 pm
DOVETAIL
(@dovetail)
Posts: 342
Reputable Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]

thanks. i guess we'll know soon enough

Not unless the packaging and/or content is altered!?!?!


 
Posted : August 21, 2019 3:25 pm
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Posts: 9538
Illustrious Member
 

I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that I am in fact TOO serious a fan to participate in a straightforward dialogue and exchange of information here. So, I have nothing to say on the packaging except that it virtually screams cheapness the likes of which this band has complained of during their entire career. We should all strive to be the happy warrior that is Alan Paul.

What is it that is wrong with the packaging that the band has complained about? Never heard that. They all seem fine to me (Except Brothers of the Road and Reach for the Sky).


Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.

 
Posted : August 22, 2019 3:16 am
DOVETAIL
(@dovetail)
Posts: 342
Reputable Member
 

I have come to the unfortunate conclusion that I am in fact TOO serious a fan to participate in a straightforward dialogue and exchange of information here. So, I have nothing to say on the packaging except that it virtually screams cheapness the likes of which this band has complained of during their entire career. We should all strive to be the happy warrior that is Alan Paul.

What is it that is wrong with the packaging that the band has complained about? Never heard that. They all seem fine to me (Except Brothers of the Road and Reach for the Sky).

Was not referring to cheapness of packaging but of business arrangements over the years from Phil Walden to Arista years then on to the Sony label: a long-established precedent still in place!?!?


 
Posted : August 22, 2019 5:43 am
WarEagleRK
(@wareaglerk)
Posts: 1297
Noble Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]

This band has been mismanaged at multiple levels for decades. However if they can't get dates right on something like this, then zero effort is being put into quality control.

This bad should have a much greater legacy than it does, but nobody has seemingly ever tried to actually do any next level promotion or brand building.

At the very least if they are going to do these legacy releases they need at least one guy like David Lemeaux with the Dead who can cultivate it.


 
Posted : August 22, 2019 6:14 pm
WarEagleRK
(@wareaglerk)
Posts: 1297
Noble Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

CAREFUL!?!?!?!....Opening THAT can of worms might simultaneously crack some of the fragile eggshell minds around here!?!?!

Seems a mirror might apply here as you seem fairly fragile with some of these types of responses. Not knocking you but you have had some pretty defensive responses here as well.


 
Posted : August 22, 2019 6:17 pm
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

I have been able to listen to more of the full tracks online in the last couple of days, although not all of it yet. I don't feel like it is a rip-off or anything near it. The only people who might be disappointed would be someone who expected it to sound like At Fillmore East . It wasn't my impression from any of the announcement info that it was claimed to be sonic perfection.

It sounds good, but there is a little unevenness across the whole thing and a couple of tape splices(?) where it drops out - that's life. If someone only wants them to put out old stuff that can be cleaned up to the point where it sounds perfect, they probably are going to be bored. One has to assume that perfectly recorded and preserved early stuff may not exist and is the reason the archival stuff has been so limited, for instance, in comparison with the Dead who seem to have a never ending reservoir of shows from which to dump fancy new release packages. We'll have to wait to see if there are packaging issues like the apparently mislabeled dates.

The vast majority of people on here are going to be thrilled to hear it. I am digging it. I ordered the CDs from the Big House online store when it was first announced, I'm glad to be supporting the museum through my purchase as well. No worries...

what should the dates of this release actually be?

The CDs are labeled 01/29/71, 01/30/71, and 01/31/71 in the photo on the Big House Museum online store. The question is that they played each night 01/28 through 01/31, so if the first disc is actually the 01/28 show, then either one or two of the discs is mislabeled. One night (either 01/29 or 01/30) got supposedly moved to Winterland Arena, so if the dates are correct, the venue is wrong on one of the discs.

so at this moment no one knows what is not labeled correctly?

We don't have any idea right now due to all the descrepancies.

1. Discs and Tshirts dates are different
2. During the original Sirius broadcast Haynes wife, Stefani Scamardo, was the DJ and she claimed the Fillmore West run started on the 27th which is contrary to the concert poster start date of the 28th.
3. She also said the broadcast was from the 29th and was the third show so this implies the first show was the 27th which she commented they had not found a tape for.
4. Before "Don't Keep Me Wondering?" in the broadcast Duane says they enjoyed the first three nights and they would enjoy this one or something to that effect. So I am wondering if this tape is from the following night which would be the 30th if the first date was the 28th.

Maybe one of the hardcore collectors here will compare their personal tapes to the official release and sort it out but for now the mystery continues.

[Edited on 8/21/2019 by Bill_Graham]

This band has been mismanaged at multiple levels for decades. However if they can't get dates right on something like this, then zero effort is being put into quality control.

This bad should have a much greater legacy than it does, but nobody has seemingly ever tried to actually do any next level promotion or brand building.

At the very least if they are going to do these legacy releases they need at least one guy like David Lemeaux with the Dead who can cultivate it.

And I never disputed what you or others here are saying War. I am not defending the lack of quality control or effort in getting the dates correct. My only point was it is not that big of a deal for me as I am happy to to get the music. As an avid bootleg vinyl and CD collector since the early 70's I have gotten used to wrong attribution of dates and locations as this can be common with bootlegs. Would I prefer knowing the correct info? Sure, but I am not going to let that ruin my enjoyment of a new Duane era live recording. Everyone's priorities are different so YMMV.

I also see the business side of the coin as well. If the ABB management know they will sell this new release anyway even with the sloppy attribution maybe they don't see the return on investment to put in the extra cost and effort?

Again not defending the lack of effort but just speculating.

I am guessing someone will figure out the truth eventually so in the meantime I will just enjoy the music.

[Edited on 8/23/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 3:17 am
Lee
 Lee
(@lee)
Posts: 9538
Illustrious Member
 

Nice post Bill. I agree. I have some shows that some people have sent me and are dated and I've wondered a few times if the dates were correct.

I'm a particular person myself but personally, I wouldn't let a date get in the way of enjoying the music. Especially anything with Duane.


Everything in Moderation. Including Moderation.

 
Posted : August 23, 2019 3:36 am
matt05
(@matt05)
Posts: 1017
Noble Member
 

as far as the dates/venue things goes. it's possible no one can 100% verify the information so they are using what was written on the boxes of reels. other artists have done this too with official releases. just use what was logged because no one can verify the information.

as far as the bands legacy? I think they have released a ton of great stuff considering the most wanted material by the band is from a lineup that was together like 3 years. march 1969-late 1971. who knows how much of that lineup was recorded because until 1971 they weren't a hugely popular band. counting this boxset we have

-2 live boxsets from 1971
-Ludlow garage
-5 archive series releases and 3 feature the duane/betts era
-the bears choice 1970 stuff
-the Atlanta pops festival
-the a&r radio show
-the live show on the deluxe brothers and sisters
-wipe the windows
-3 cd's and 1 dvd release on the betts/warren era
-1 cd of the betts/Derek era
-the cd and dvd of the 2003 beacon run
-the fox box
-the 40th anniversary dvd
-the cream of the crop 2003 release

plus a few various live tracks sprinkled across releases.

they did deluxe releases of the bands most popular 1970's releases

outside of that how much duane era stuff do they have left to release?


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 5:18 am
WarEagleRK
(@wareaglerk)
Posts: 1297
Noble Member
 

As great as most of those releases are, I'm not talking about random releases through out the years as a legacy. However even with that there are a lot of starts and stops with those. A lot of the problem is the lack of band ownership of the masters. They are spread out over several labels and several owners making for an inconsistent approach to these releases. Likely the deluxe versions of the original albums with the bonus tracks and discs are just because the labels wanted to make money and do deluxe versions of the releases they own like what happens with a lot of classic albums. The band/management probably had little to no say in it happening. Glad it happened though.

By legacy and branding I mean more of how the band is viewed by the general public.

With far too many people the Allman Brothers band is just "Southern Rock" and "Ramblin' Man". They are just a band from the past. Equal (maybe lesser) footing with Skynyrd.

To people like us who follow and listen closely they are far more than just that. This band has never had the legacy/reputation that a band this talented deserves.

There was never any organization to the support and promotion of the band, and because of that they fell behind other bands who aren't near as worthy. They never properly branded or merchandised themselves. It cost them millions and cost them from getting the exposure to this great music that it deserves. I'm not talking selling out, I'm just talking a little bit of legwork.

They couldn't even have someone in the organization bother to document the final tour/show. That would have a simple thing to do that would have been well received.

If they had half of the support/management that a band like the Dead or AC/DC have


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 6:05 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

Nice post Bill. I agree. I have some shows that some people have sent me and are dated and I've wondered a few times if the dates were correct.

I'm a particular person myself but personally, I wouldn't let a date get in the way of enjoying the music. Especially anything with Duane.

Agree Lee, I don't begrudge anyone being disappointed that the dates are confused but I found it bizarre to be called a sycophant by another poster just because I am excited for this new release, that I am not getting worked up over the dating controversy and criticizing the band management.

In the end not knowing the correct dates will not impact my enjoyment of the music. And like I said I would be surprised if some of the more knowledgeable fans on this forum don't sort out the proper dates of the shows eventually


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 6:06 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

as far as the dates/venue things goes. it's possible no one can 100% verify the information so they are using what was written on the boxes of reels. other artists have done this too with official releases. just use what was logged because no one can verify the information.

as far as the bands legacy? I think they have released a ton of great stuff considering the most wanted material by the band is from a lineup that was together like 3 years. march 1969-late 1971. who knows how much of that lineup was recorded because until 1971 they weren't a hugely popular band. counting this boxset we have

-2 live boxsets from 1971
-Ludlow garage
-5 archive series releases and 3 feature the duane/betts era
-the bears choice 1970 stuff
-the Atlanta pops festival
-the a&r radio show
-the live show on the deluxe brothers and sisters
-wipe the windows
-3 cd's and 1 dvd release on the betts/warren era
-1 cd of the betts/Derek era
-the cd and dvd of the 2003 beacon run
-the fox box
-the 40th anniversary dvd
-the cream of the crop 2003 release

plus a few various live tracks sprinkled across releases.

they did deluxe releases of the bands most popular 1970's releases

outside of that how much duane era stuff do they have left to release?

Great post Matt! Fans of other bands, like Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith, would kill to have the amount of archive material we have gotten over the years so I do applaud the organization for releasing it.

As far as what is left, Butch claimed in an old interview that they have some Duane era Warehouse tapes he was hoping to get released and Kirk West confirmed they have more Duane era tapes then have been released in the Summer 2002 Issue 35 of Hittin the Note mag so hopefully we will see more archive releases.

Kirk West: The tapes start in 1970, we don't have any from 1969, but we have tapes from 70, 71 plus some killer stuff from 72, 73, and 75. We've got some wonderful material from the six or seven year period, real prime cuts. Now our friend Larry ( Brantley) has come up with some more great tapes. About a year ago he cleaned out another closet and found half a dozen tapes, and four of them are from 71 shows. Master tapes all of them, and we rounded up a bunch of mid 70's stuff. We have tapes (70/71) that are a couple of weeks apart.

[Edited on 8/23/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 6:26 am
WarEagleRK
(@wareaglerk)
Posts: 1297
Noble Member
 

All of my comments about the branding/promoting of the band aside, I can't wait to hear this.


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 6:31 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

As great as most of those releases are, I'm not talking about random releases through out the years as a legacy. However even with that there are a lot of starts and stops with those. A lot of the problem is the lack of band ownership of the masters. They are spread out over several labels and several owners making for an inconsistent approach to these releases. Likely the deluxe versions of the original albums with the bonus tracks and discs are just because the labels wanted to make money and do deluxe versions of the releases they own like what happens with a lot of classic albums. The band/management probably had little to no say in it happening. Glad it happened though.

By legacy and branding I mean more of how the band is viewed by the general public.

With far too many people the Allman Brothers band is just "Southern Rock" and "Ramblin' Man". They are just a band from the past. Equal (maybe lesser) footing with Skynyrd.

To people like us who follow and listen closely they are far more than just that. This band has never had the legacy/reputation that a band this talented deserves.

There was never any organization to the support and promotion of the band, and because of that they fell behind other bands who aren't near as worthy. They never properly branded or merchandised themselves. It cost them millions and cost them from getting the exposure to this great music that it deserves. I'm not talking selling out, I'm just talking a little bit of legwork.

They couldn't even have someone in the organization bother to document the final tour/show. That would have a simple thing to do that would have been well received.

If they had half of the support/management that a band like the Dead or AC/DC have

Unfortunately, the band did not have someone like the Dead had with Bear and Betty Cantor recording their shows back in the day. From reading the interviews the shows the band did tape were for them to listen to and they were taken by band members or lost through ages.

Great story about the Betty boards.

https://relix.com/articles/detail/whats_become_of_the_bettys/

The story goes ABB sound man Callahan had a number of ABB board tapes that were stolen when his place was broken into so wondering if they will ever surface.

I do understand the frustration over the lack of organization and diligence regarding the business side but that also needs the band member stakeholders to give a s**t. Other than Butch (RIP) it seems Gregg had little interest in this stuff.

[Edited on 8/23/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 6:37 am
matt05
(@matt05)
Posts: 1017
Noble Member
 

as far as the dates/venue things goes. it's possible no one can 100% verify the information so they are using what was written on the boxes of reels. other artists have done this too with official releases. just use what was logged because no one can verify the information.

as far as the bands legacy? I think they have released a ton of great stuff considering the most wanted material by the band is from a lineup that was together like 3 years. march 1969-late 1971. who knows how much of that lineup was recorded because until 1971 they weren't a hugely popular band. counting this boxset we have

-2 live boxsets from 1971
-Ludlow garage
-5 archive series releases and 3 feature the duane/betts era
-the bears choice 1970 stuff
-the Atlanta pops festival
-the a&r radio show
-the live show on the deluxe brothers and sisters
-wipe the windows
-3 cd's and 1 dvd release on the betts/warren era
-1 cd of the betts/Derek era
-the cd and dvd of the 2003 beacon run
-the fox box
-the 40th anniversary dvd
-the cream of the crop 2003 release

plus a few various live tracks sprinkled across releases.

they did deluxe releases of the bands most popular 1970's releases

outside of that how much duane era stuff do they have left to release?

Great post Matt! Fans of other bands, like Led Zeppelin and Aerosmith, would kill to have the amount of archive material we have gotten over the years so I do applaud the organization for releasing it.

As far as what is left, Butch claimed in an old interview that they have some Duane era Warehouse tapes he was hoping to get released and Kirk West confirmed they have more Duane era tapes then have been released in the Summer 2002 Issue 35 of Hittin the Note mag so hopefully we will see more archive releases.

Kirk West: The tapes start in 1970, we don't have any from 1969, but we have tapes from 70, 71 plus some killer stuff from 72, 73, and 75. We've got some wonderful material from the six or seven year period, real prime cuts. Now our friend Larry ( Brantley) has come up with some more great tapes. About a year ago he cleaned out another closet and found half a dozen tapes, and four of them are from 71 shows. Master tapes all of them, and we rounded up a bunch of mid 70's stuff. We have tapes (70/71) that are a couple of weeks apart.

[Edited on 8/23/2019 by Bill_Graham]

aerosmith for sure I'd love something to come out.

there is a warehouse bonus track on this new boxset. maybe a teaser for the next release?


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 7:11 am
hotlantatim
(@hotlantatim)
Posts: 880
Prominent Member
 

Looking forward to this release. Glad I have some advance notice of the sound quality. It's hard to beat the Fillmore Box Set, the A&R release and the Pop Festival release. All crisp recordings and lights out playing.

I do think some people underestimate the business decisions the band did make over their final 25 years. They went from broke guys to pretty wealthy over those years (except sadly Butch). They aligned themselves with the '90s Horde bands (instead of the reunited Southern Rockers).

They (via Lana and Rowland) embraced the internet well before bands did that....creating an online, organic place for the tribe to connect (and in the process gaining a valuable 100,000+ strong email database of fans). They shined a bright spotlight on newer / younger members like Warren, Woody, Oteil, Derek, who themselves became part of the draw to the band. This new injection of energy, new music and live prowess I believe helped them be a first-ballot RnR HOF inductee in 1994 (and I always wish that had included Chuck & Lamar.....and maybe Warren & Woody too).

They embraced the Instant Lives over their final dozen years and also released a ton of great live releases that Matt detailed above.

Missteps? Sure. Bad decisions? Yep. Management on par with Dead Inc or AC/DC? No (but didn't have some of the recordings those other guys had from their heyday).

On whole, however, they did nothing but increase their legacy over those 25 years and give die hard fans lots of great new, live, and archival stuff. Looking forward to this next set being released.


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 8:46 am
WarEagleRK
(@wareaglerk)
Posts: 1297
Noble Member
 

All above is correct, but you can be successful and still under achieve.


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 4:01 pm
PeachNutt
(@peachnutt)
Posts: 269
Reputable Member
 

Unfortuantley the comment about Gregg is right on the money. He was said to be one of the larger obstacles to releasing older ABB material. A combination of perfectionist as well as disinterested.


 
Posted : August 23, 2019 4:53 pm
RobJohnson
(@robjohnson)
Posts: 290
Reputable Member
 

This release that you are complaining about dates and packaging on was ready to go about 10 years ago, give or take a year.

In all seriousness, you should be glad it ever came out at all. I was absolutely shocked when I heard it was finally being released. I had totally given up on this release ever seeing the light of day, it seemed to me that if it hadn't come out by now, it was dead.

The ABB organization went through all the work of compiling this release, then left it sitting on a shelf for a decade, only to finally release it after the band was no longer a going concern. Then the final result has some packaging issues and questions about basic information related to the release, and fans aren't happy.

Yep, that sounds about right, seems like everything is still going according to plan over at HQ! So glad I got out when I did.


 
Posted : August 25, 2019 5:56 am
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

This release that you are complaining about dates and packaging on was ready to go about 10 years ago, give or take a year.

In all seriousness, you should be glad it ever came out at all. I was absolutely shocked when I heard it was finally being released. I had totally given up on this release ever seeing the light of day, it seemed to me that if it hadn't come out by now, it was dead.

The ABB organization went through all the work of compiling this release, then left it sitting on a shelf for a decade, only to finally release it after the band was no longer a going concern. Then the final result has some packaging issues and questions about basic information related to the release, and fans aren't happy.

Yep, that sounds about right, seems like everything is still going according to plan over at HQ! So glad I got out when I did.

Us Fans can be a demanding bunch Rob, but we do love this band. There will never be another like it IMHO.

Any other shows you know of still collecting dust in the archive you can share info about?

Do you know if they have master tapes of the 70's Warehouse shows as Butch mentioned in the interview? Would love a Warehouse box set before I finally pass on or are too old to appreciate it.

[Edited on 8/25/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 25, 2019 7:13 am
PeachNutt
(@peachnutt)
Posts: 269
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Warehouse Tapes: The are master tapes of 3/20/71 and high quality tape from 3/13/70. There are audience tapes from 12/31/70, 6/5/71 and 9/16/71. All common knowledge - no secrets here...

[Edited on 8/26/2019 by PeachNutt]


 
Posted : August 25, 2019 4:23 pm
PeachNutt
(@peachnutt)
Posts: 269
Reputable Member
 

[Edited on 8/26/2019 by PeachNutt]


 
Posted : August 25, 2019 4:24 pm
Bill_Graham
(@bill_graham)
Posts: 2795
Famed Member
 

Warehouse Tapes: The are master tapes of 3/20/71 and high quality tape from 3/13/70. There are audience tapes from 12/31/70, 6/5/71 and 9/16/71. All common knowledge - no secrets here...

[Edited on 8/26/2019 by PeachNutt]

Sure that is what is in trading circles but do we know for sure what the band has in the archives?. Based on what Butch said and what Kirk West said in his interview, about multiple Duane era tapes being found, maybe there is more than we have?

[Edited on 8/26/2019 by Bill_Graham]


 
Posted : August 25, 2019 6:09 pm
DOVETAIL
(@dovetail)
Posts: 342
Reputable Member
 

This release that you are complaining about dates and packaging on was ready to go about 10 years ago, give or take a year.

In all seriousness, you should be glad it ever came out at all. I was absolutely shocked when I heard it was finally being released. I had totally given up on this release ever seeing the light of day, it seemed to me that if it hadn't come out by now, it was dead.

The ABB organization went through all the work of compiling this release, then left it sitting on a shelf for a decade, only to finally release it after the band was no longer a going concern. Then the final result has some packaging issues and questions about basic information related to the release, and fans aren't happy.

Yep, that sounds about right, seems like everything is still going according to plan over at HQ! So glad I got out when I did.

Pertinent and practical observations here from a man who would/should know...At the risk of sounding self-serving, I am glad my suspicions are not wholly without foundation.


 
Posted : August 26, 2019 1:02 pm
porkchopbob
(@porkchopbob)
Posts: 4635
Illustrious Member
porkchopbob
(@porkchopbob)
Posts: 4635
Illustrious Member
 

I'm previewing it now. Quality and separation seems solid through out. Definitely some tape deficiencies here and there, but understandable considering the source and storage. Most of it is actually better quality than the "Midnight Rider" preview they released last month. These are very listenable, anyone worried it would be similar to the first third of Stonybrook need not worry.

Stray thoughts:
- not sure what the specific source is, but 1/29 mix is really full and separate. Gregg's organ is almost distractingly present compared to other show mixes. Not a bad thing, just more than you'd usually hear. Crowd noise is minimal, sounds almost like a studio.
- 1/30 has more crowd in the mix, Gregg's organ is back underneath the mix.
- Congas on the 1/31 "Midnight Rider" are bizarrely present. Unique version.


PorkchopBob Studio

 
Posted : September 6, 2019 9:02 am
leafsfan
(@leafsfan)
Posts: 256
Reputable Member
 

I am way behind on ordering this.

The big house supply has run dry but Amazon has copies.

I would rather support the big house. Does anyone know if they will be producing more copies for sale at the Big House?

Thanks


 
Posted : September 6, 2019 10:02 am
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