What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.

What does the military have to do with it? I haven't heard a single NFL player say a single word against the military.

Just who do you think puts their life for the right to "protest"?

That my friend is exactly what the Flag means to me.

Really, because I've studied the history of the flag. The 50 stars stands for each state. The 13 stripes stands for the 13 original colonies. No part of the flag when it was created was meant to stand for the military.

And besides, the protesters have specifically stated that they have no disrespect for the military. If they don't intend any disrespect, then it is your imagination making up the disrespect to the military and nothing else.

By the way, as I've stated in the past, I don't care for this protest. I think you should stand for the nationa anthem. But thanks to Trump and Pence, the protest is getting a lot more attention than it really deserves and as such has been much more successful than it probably should have. Everytime someone talks about this protest, whether good or bad, it is a win for the protesters.

Good points...good post.

The problem is that the facts you've presented seem to get in the way of what some want to make & misrepresent of the flag, amendments, and intentions of protest. They've attempted to connect dots that really don't connect which makes the premise of their argument more a personal belief as opposed to being grounded in fact.

Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.

Agree. The flag has been co-opted to mean something that flags were never intended to mean.

Each branch of the military has its own unique flag. When the military flies the US flag, it represents all those they are fighting for (hint: us). So ask yourself, is there any other nation that when you see their flag, you first think about that nation's military?

[Edited on 10/9/2017 by porkchopbob]

its misguided, disrespectful, divisive, and no different than showing up to a MLK celebration and start waving a confederate flag claiming free speech.

Outside of the fact that is a stupid "what if" comparison, where was your outage at tim tebow taking a knee during the anthem when he played???

Tim Tebow? Please. For whatever reason, I have disdain for anyone who will not stand for the anthem.

Your mileage may vary

For those offended/annoyed by taking a knee still, get the F over it already or stop watching! If you come on here next week all upset that players are still kneeling, it's your own dumb fault for turning on the game. Maybe football isn't for you if taking a knee upsets you so much.

I will continue to watch the NFL and will continue to "be bothered" by the actions they believe in.

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

from: https://www.google.com/amp/s/theundefeated.com/features/an-open-letter-from-american-military-veterans-in-support-of-colin-kaepernick/amp/

by Rhiannon Walker, Sept. 2

U.S. Army veteran Richard Allen Smith felt like he was walking with a rock in his shoe all day. In the aftermath of Colin Kaepernick’s protest of the national anthem, Smith heard a lot about how he had been disrespected by what the San Francisco 49ers quarterback had done and said from a lot of folks who never served in the armed forces.

Kaepernick has been sitting during the singing of The Star Spangled Banner the entire preseason, although it was only noticed last Friday when he was dressed to play. In an exclusive interview with NFL.com’s Steve Wyche, Kaepernick explained his protest: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way.”

Smith said that people burning the quarterback’s jersey “with the troops and veterans being the reason seemed ridiculous.” Being used wasn’t a new feeling. Smith said politicians and corporations often use the military and its servicemen and women for promotion. That leaves some veterans, like Smith, feeling like props for people who haven’t made the sacrifice, but want to cloak themselves in their credibility.

By writing this letter, which was written on Medium, it was an opportunity for him and other vets to counter that rationale.
Although the 31-year-old works as a media strategist with the National Education Association, the letter was thought of, created and crafted as something entirely outside of his job and among some of Smith’s friends and colleagues.

One of the most important things about the letter is the diversity of the people signing it and the reasons that they are putting their names on it.

“I wanted to put something out there in the world … to say that ‘There are veterans who not only agree with Colin Kaepernick’s right to do that, but also agree with the substance of the action,’ ” Smith said. “And are willing to stand up and say Black Lives Matter and this is an important issue that we need to address in our country.

“This is an incredibly diverse list of people. I didn’t know how many signatures I was going to get – if I’m going to get five or 10 signatures on this letter. … There’s diversity in service – every branch of the service is represented here – there are black people, white people, Latinos, a Native American person on here. Gay veterans, straight veterans, female veterans, male veterans from both coast to southeast, to southwest, the heartland, pretty much any sort of identity you can imagine, it’s signed onto this letter in the form of one person or more.”

* * * *

An Open Letter of Support for Colin Kaepernick From American Military Veterans

https://medium.com/@VetsForKaep/an-open-letter-of-support-for-colin-kaepernick-from-american-military-veterans-cda9bffb764c

In 1947, former Army officer Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier in Major League Baseball. Robinson experienced taunts, epithets, and threats of violence for simply standing up to the status quo of segregation in America.

Bobby Wise, United States Army Veteran: Operation Iraqi Freedom

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by BrerRabbit]

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

A group of black protesters peacefully protesting in front of a police station is far more likely to cause an angry Tweet from our president than a group of white supremacist marching with nazis flags and tiki torches.

I repeat, take this peaceful protest to your nearest Police Department where it might have more impact.

I'm sure a crowd of black people protesting outside of police stations across America will be met with admiration and respect by conservatives in a Trump presidency. Did you really write that with a straight face?

To everyone enraged by taking a knee, enough with the transparent b.s. already. It's sad to watch you all struggle to come up so many lame excuses to justify your rage when a black man speaks up. Never heard a peep about those who fly a flag that ain't our Stars and Stripes - but I'm sure that's so different and doesn't warrant any offense, no no no. If I heard a rationale that wasn't filled with holes or just plain childish, I'd take it more seriously. Until then, go cry me a river. If a peaceful protest bothers you, you live in the wrong country.

The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

This was/is a "big" topic of discussion here in Indy the last couple of days.

Kind overshadowed the other events that took place unfortunately.

David Letterman got a good laugh in!!!

Letterman started his speech making the crowd laugh, "4/12/47 I was born in Indianapolis. Lived here most of my life. Been on television 30 years, where the hell's my statue? I'm serious. If you can make one you can make two."

The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

That's basically the attitude you take with the peaceful protestors - how dare they have a different definition of respect. We are not different in that regard. You have disdain for the peaceful protestors, and I have disdain for those who oppress. If kneeling with hands over their hearts is deemed too offensive to the point where the President urges firings in response, and half the country puts them down, there is no hope for them. No method of speaking up will ever gain the respect of some people.

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested, and met with sharp opposition from the entire right, what are some methods that you think would help their cause and get the same visibility?

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by BoytonBrother]

VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested...

Right, because the cops have sure killed and arrested a whole lot of peaceful protesters since Trump became president.

Let me try to explain this in simpleton terms. Our flag represents our country as pointed out previously by one of you genius posters. But wait there is more...

Found from a book about the symbolism of the American Flag published in 1977 by the House of Representatives we read:

"The star is a symbol of the heavens and the divine goal to which man has aspired from time immemorial; the stripe is symbolic of the rays of light emanating from the sun."

The Symbolism of the Flag's ColorsAlternating in red and white, the 13 stripes also represent the 13 original colonies that joined together to declare their independence from Britain in order to establish themselves as a sovereign nation.

Originally, the colors red, white and blue had neither specific meaning nor representation when the flag was adopted in 1777. However, the colors in the Great Seal of the United States did have specific meanings. Charles Thompson, Secretary of the Continental Congress, reporting to Congress on the Seal, stated:

"The colors of the pales (the vertical stripes) are those used in the flag of the United States of America; White signifies purity and innocence, Red, hardiness & valour, and Blue, the color of the Chief (the broad band above the stripes) signifies vigilance, perseverance & justice."

The modern meaning of the flag was forged in December 1860, when Major Robert Anderson moved the U.S. garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Author Adam Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the American Civil War, and the flag was used throughout northern states to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like American Independence day. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different. Suddenly the Stars and Stripes flew—as it does today, and especially as it did after the September 11 attacks in 2001—from houses, from storefronts, from churches; above the village greens and college quads. For the first time American flags were mass-produced rather than individually stitched and even so, manufacturers could not keep up with demand. As the long winter of 1861 turned into spring, that old flag meant something new. The abstraction of the Union cause was transfigured into a physical thing: strips of cloth that millions of people would fight for, and many thousands die for.
– Adam Goodheart.[54]

The flag of the United States is one of the nation's most widely recognized symbols. Within the United States, flags are frequently displayed not only on public buildings but on private residences. The flag is a common motif on decals for car windows, and clothing ornaments such as badges and lapel pins. Throughout the world the flag has been used in public discourse to refer to the United States.

The flag has become a powerful symbol of Americanism, and is flown on many occasions, with giant outdoor flags used by retail outlets to draw customers. Desecration of the flag is considered a public outrage, but remains protected as freedom of speech. Scholars have noted the irony that "[t]he flag is so revered because it represents the land of the free, and that freedom includes the ability to use or abuse that flag in protest".[55] In worldwide comparison, Testi noted in 2010 that the United States was not unique in adoring its banner, for the flags of Scandinavian countries are also "beloved, domesticated, commercialized and sacralized objects"

Our flag represents a Free country. How did we get our freedom? We didn't just ask for it, we fought for it. Many died. How do we maintain our freedom? The same way. Who does the fighting that preserves our freedom, which includes the right to disrespect our flag, our country and those who have fought for those rights? It is shameful that anyone would think that this is an acceptable way to protest the police doing their jobs. Seems a lot of you folks that support this protest are the same ones that were screaming, "Hands up don't shoot". I would think you would learn not to believe everything you hear on CNN.

VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

VP went to the game planning to leave regardless, at Trump's insistence. A few players peacefully protested against inequality and prejudice in this country, which the flag represents, as it is their right to do so. Pence peacefully and expensively counter protested, so I guess he's for inequality and prejudice. Is there any greater symbol of inequality than a white man protesting at the public's expense and being cheered by angry white men, while black men peacefully protest and are vilified? I'd say they made their point, some just refuse to see it.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by porkchopbob]

They see the point, porkchop. They just agree with it.

They see the point, porkchop. They just agree with it.

I'm sure when they hear "Oh, Canada" they think of Canada's armed forces and not maple syrup.

VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

VP went to the game planning to leave regardless, at Trump's insistence. A few players peacefully protested against inequality and prejudice in this country, which the flag represents, as it is their right to do so. Pence peacefully and expensively counter protested, so I guess he's for inequality and prejudice. Is there any greater symbol of inequality than a white man protesting at the public's expense and being cheered by angry white men, while black men peacefully protest and are vilified? I'd say they made their point, some just refuse to see it.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by porkchopbob]

Pence is no stranger to inequality actions. As governor of Indiana, didn't he promote and sign legislation of "religious freedom" i.e. discrimination? I'd have to read up on this as it's been a few years back, but he may have reversed himself later. Maybe he realized that from a business perspective, it was a loser. Just look at similar actions in North Carolina, and what it has cost that economy. But make no mistake, Pence is right up there and comfortable with inequality based upon his stance in Indiana with "religious freedom" and abuse of federal taxpayer money at the game the other day playing cultural warrior.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by MartinD28]

Only 23% of Americans agreed with MLK's march on Washington. The people who disagreed were wrong. The majority of Americans agreed with expanding the war in Vietnam. The majority of the people in America thought the kids at Kent State were in the wrong. The majority of Americans were wrong.

Protests would never work if they were comfortable. The fact that Trump is changing the meaning of these protests is frightening. The ignorant people who are missing the point of these protests are the reason America is failing. The majority of Americans have lost, or never had the ability to critically think. I'm guessing it is because the majority of Americans don't read books. Regardless, this country becomes more of an idiocracy every day.

I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events. The day they tell me I have to stand will be the day I sit down.

The Pentagon paid professionals sports hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payer money to promote the military. Why? Why are we turning sporting events into Nationalistic rallies? What's next? Concerts? Movies? An anthem an hour at the grocery store where everyone must stop shopping and honor our Country? Our President?

I finished the Vietnam War series last night. This country, our leaders have brought plenty of dishonor to our flag and laid it upon every American citizen. Now we take part in the longest war in American history and again we have no idea why we are fighting or what victory will look like.

You folks who are more concerned about football players taking a knee than Police Officers murdering unarmed black men need to get over yourselves. America is a great country. We can be better. Burying our heads in the sand and ignoring institutional racism will not make this a better country.

The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs.

You have disdain for the peaceful protestors

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish.

Only 23% of Americans agreed with MLK's march on Washington. The people who disagreed were wrong. The majority of Americans agreed with expanding the war in Vietnam. The majority of the people in America thought the kids at Kent State were in the wrong. The majority of Americans were wrong.

Protests would never work if they were comfortable. The fact that Trump is changing the meaning of these protests is frightening. The ignorant people who are missing the point of these protests are the reason America is failing. The majority of Americans have lost, or never had the ability to critically think. I'm guessing it is because the majority of Americans don't read books. Regardless, this country becomes more of an idiocracy every day.

I stand for the National Anthem at sporting events. The day they tell me I have to stand will be the day I sit down.

The Pentagon paid professionals sports hundreds of thousands of dollars of tax payer money to promote the military. Why? Why are we turning sporting events into Nationalistic rallies? What's next? Concerts? Movies? An anthem an hour at the grocery store where everyone must stop shopping and honor our Country? Our President?

I finished the Vietnam War series last night. This country, our leaders have brought plenty of dishonor to our flag and laid it upon every American citizen. Now we take part in the longest war in American history and again we have no idea why we are fighting or what victory will look like.

You folks who are more concerned about football players taking a knee than Police Officers murdering unarmed black men need to get over yourselves. America is a great country. We can be better. Burying our heads in the sand and ignoring institutional racism will not make this a better country.

I was with you right up until the last sentence. The United States is not always a great country. The issues you mentioned at the top of the post are examples. Statistics can be manipulated, but I remember the issues during my college years were the war, which seemed to be opposed by my parents' generation (although not my parents) rather than my peers and opposition to anything MLK said or did (again by an older generation).

My personal "aha" came when people stood for the playing of "Dixie" before a college football game when I visited a well known southern university. I sat in shock. I'd never heard "Dixie" played in public and certainly didn't associate it with college football. The fact that my date and I were the only two who remained seated in our section seemed incredible to me.

I, too, can envision the flag/anthem playing out to what was once a dystopian idea as you described - mandatory halting in the grocery store at the sound of the anthem.

What disheartens me is that the US no longer seems to be a place where there's an exchange of ideas or willingness to compromise for the greater good on anything. Immovable hostility has become the first response on many issues and has replaced courtesy in society in general. There's no more "may I help you?" in lines or customer service. There's stony silence and a grunt or "Yeah?" if forced to speak.

Trump's greatest impact hasn't been on policy. It's his rude disrespectful belligerence that has emboldened loose thinking, speaking, and actions by the population. Hostility abounds.

[Edited on 10/10/2017 by cyclone88]

The absolute nerve of anyone to see things differently than you!

Aside from protesting at police stations, which likely get them all killed or arrested

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs.

You have disdain for the peaceful protestors

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish.

“My flag”.

OK.

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.

VEEP Pence attended, gave the players a choice to do the right thing. Some choose to kneel, VEEP felt uncomfortable and left the game.

Bullsh!t. Nobody gives someone else a choice to exercise their inalienable rights. They gave themselves the choice.

The modern meaning of the flag was forged in December 1860, when Major Robert Anderson moved the U.S. garrison from Fort Moultrie to Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor. Author Adam Goodheart argues this was the opening move of the American Civil War, and the flag was used throughout northern states to symbolize American nationalism and rejection of secessionism.

Before that day, the flag had served mostly as a military ensign or a convenient marking of American territory, flown from forts, embassies, and ships, and displayed on special occasions like American Independence day. But in the weeks after Major Anderson's surprising stand, it became something different.

Funny how most of the people who appear most upset about this protest are also the same people who got upset about Confederate flags and Confederate statues being removed. If you love the US flag and it means that much to you, then you should be against the Confederate flag and everything it stands for...the ultimate betrayal of the USA flag and those that fought for American freedom. But that appears to not be the case. Why do you think that's the case? Do you think those white supremacists wearing nazis symbols and carrying tiki torches are also upset about this "disrespect" to the US flag and support Trump's outrage overy this protest?

Thank you VP Pence for taking a stand with all the NFL fans who think this misguided protest disrespects America and those who served. This protest has carried on way too long and is alienating lots of fans.

So you think this was taxpayer money well spent then?

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.

"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

Which Confederate Flag? As a student of the Civil War, I hold a different view than most. Example? I could walk down the street with the "Stars & Bars" on a shirt and most if not all would not even take notice. Pure ignorance of history. Am I aware that some are offended by my love of Civil War battlefield strategy... Does that make me a racist? I think not. But for the sake of discussion, if you are willing to refer to all lovers of History (Civil War) as "racists" is it not a fair assumption to consider that there are people offended by what they see as disrespect towards the Stars & Stripes by refusing to stand?

"Likely"...LOL....."Killed".....not if it is peaceful....Don't block traffic, do not stop the police from doing their jobs

I cannot believe how out of touch you are with reality. To reiterate your idea, you want black people to show up at police stations to protest police brutality, and you think that will be met with praise and respect by the right? HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I did already. You are an American that has disdain for peaceful protestors because you find it disrespectful like a true snowflake. Stay silent about the confederate flag waivers. "My flag", LOL.

"My Flag" correct. I have the Flag that was draped over my Father's casket after he passed. That gentleman was a Lt. Colonel in the USAF and served proudly in Korea as a member of SAC. Laugh at that.

Which Confederate Flag? As a student of the Civil War, I hold a different view than most. Example? I could walk down the street with the "Stars & Bars" on a shirt and most if not all would not even take notice. Pure ignorance of history. Am I aware that some are offended by my love of Civil War battlefield strategy... Does that make me a racist? I think not. But for the sake of discussion, if you are willing to refer to all lovers of History (Civil War) as "racists" is it not a fair assumption to consider that there are people offended by what they see as disrespect towards the Stars & Stripes by refusing to stand?

I said nothing about the Confederate flag standing for racism. But if you support the Confederacy then you don't support the UNITED States of America. You can't support both - a war was fought over this. If you support the Confederacy and it's goal to not be part of the USA, then you supported the bloodshed of US soldiers that were dying for that flag. Pick a flag to support, but if you take pride in ANY Confederate flag (pick one, doesn't matter which one), then you have no right to call out anyone for not standing for the anthem based on soldiers fighting for a flag.

Absolutely wrong. I have disdain for those who disrespect my Flag. Interpret that anyway you wish

I guess the Houston Astros must really be on your sh1t list

False outrage seems to be more prevalent than fake news.