The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
I have said many times that the saddest thing is the utter divide in our country (breach larger between sides than anytime since the Civil War) that seemingly leaves no common ground for compromise. But what the Senate did is akin to the President threating to veto legislation if its passed. The sides are just so far apart that it is leading to public discord.
Ah, gang, the agreement being negotiated isn't technically a treaty.
In my opinion the freshman Senator who authored the letter and the other 46 Senators really are basically pandering to their base as well as APAC and various other Israeli backed lobbyist who toss large amounts of money to those in Congress who do their bidding. It's all yet another glowing display of how monied interests control our gov't.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
Yes, I'm sure. Most are well educated and many were educated in the west and even in the U.S. I'm quite sure they understand how US govt works.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
The current Minister of Foreign Affairs and representative of Iran in the current talks is a fellow named Mohammed Javad Zarif.
Mr. Zarif's academic pedigree:
Drew College Preparatory School, San Francisco, CA
San Francisco State University
B.A., International Relations
M.A., International Relations
Graduate School of International Studies
University of Denver
M.A., International Relations
Ph.D., International Law and Policy
I'm guessing the US government and its workings may have come up somewhere along the way, but I could be wrong.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
Yes, I'm sure. Most are well educated and many were educated in the west and even in the U.S. I'm quite sure they understand how US govt works.
If you click on the link I provided, there is a graphic showing the Iranian cabinet and which US colleges they graduated from..................
Here it is again....
...or this may work....
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
Yes, I'm sure. Most are well educated and many were educated in the west and even in the U.S. I'm quite sure they understand how US govt works.
If you click on the link I provided, there is a graphic showing the Iranian cabinet and which US colleges they graduated from..................
Here it is again....
____________________________________________________________________
Your source is a blog from a left-wing newspaper article?
This does make sense however.
Liberals are so easily led by ideology.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
Yes, I'm sure. Most are well educated and many were educated in the west and even in the U.S. I'm quite sure they understand how US govt works.
If you click on the link I provided, there is a graphic showing the Iranian cabinet and which US colleges they graduated from..................
Here it is again....
____________________________________________________________________
Your source is a blog from a left-wing newspaper article?
This does make sense however.
Liberals are so easily led by ideology.
Is the information correct? The source does not matter if the infrormaation is accurate.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
Yes, I'm sure. Most are well educated and many were educated in the west and even in the U.S. I'm quite sure they understand how US govt works.
If you click on the link I provided, there is a graphic showing the Iranian cabinet and which US colleges they graduated from..................
Here it is again....
____________________________________________________________________
Your source is a blog from a left-wing newspaper article?
This does make sense however.
Liberals are so easily led by ideology.
I am now convinced you are actually a liberal trying to make conservatives look bad. You're doing a really good job.
There is a perfect example of why the United States Congress led by Republicans have an approval rating of less than 10%. They are brain dead and will never get it and keep digging themselves deeper and deeper into oblivion. They just can't do anything the proper way and make our government look futile without a modicum of unity. Disgusting, just like the Boehner/Netanyahu debacle last week.
It had the same exact approval rating when Democrats led it. Hatred of Congress is bi-partisan. As for me, I think this was a mistake. Republicans have every right to oppose Obama's moronic apeasement plan but sending this letter wlll accomplish nothing and lets Obama make it about his opponents instead of his idiotic apeasement plan. They should oppose Obama's idiotic apeasement plan by passing resolutions and making public speeches and perhaps holding hearings demanding accountability. They cannot prevent Obama from doing what he is doing and yes the next president can choose not to honor any agreement Obama reaches just as Obama didn't honor an agreement reached between Bush and Ariel Sharon when Israel agreed to vacate Gaza.
The bottom line is the Mullahs are fully aware of the American system and don't really expect any agreement to be honored or last as they figure on violating it themselves. So bad idea Republicans.
For the record, Democrats have interfered numerous times with a Republican president's foreign policy, particularly in the 80's when Reagan was in office.
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.
Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.
This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.
[Edited on 3/10/2015 by OriginalGoober]
You are right about this. Obama bares at a minimum fifty percent responsibility for the state of things. The very fact that such an important thing he has no intention of submitting to the Senate for approval is what led to it right or wrong. But the Democrats here will never admit it.
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully gnores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.
LOL!!! Yes, a good leader would never excercise his right to make executive decisions if Congress isn't acting. Excellent point.
Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.
Exactly!! As soon as Republicans are willing to work with him, then he should also do the same! Another excellent point.
This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.
100% true. Those Republicans did not have a choice but to write that letter. They were forced to do it. You didn't know Obama has The Force? "write the letter you will"
Where does the Constitution say "In the event Congress fails to act as the president seeks, the president may enact said policies by executive order, bypassing the Congress." I must have missed that part in law school.
The Iranians are laughing at those buffoons.
Right. But they are very sober minded about the buffoon in the White House who they are rolling and the bigger buffoon at Foggy Bottom.
This is what happpens from a failure of leadership from the President. He willfully ignores the constitiution and acts unilaterally on issues such as illegal immigration and Obamacare, both which demonstrate a lack of respect for either branches of government.
Obama is reaping what he has sown with his illegal immigration antics . He should put on his big boy pants and start to act like a leader and work within the branches of government.
This letter is a direct result to Obamas inability to work with congress. And yes, I think this makes America look fractured but Obama is responsible for this failure of leadership.
That is an excellent draft of a complete and udder COPOUT for the members of congress that signed this. I'm sure they appreciate your help.
(and I'm sure alloak is just about to jump in and take you to task for taking the "everybody does it" route)
Add to the above - Is there any violation of the Logan Act? It's been a while since I've studied these acts & laws. Maybe it's time to get out some of the old textbooks & see if our "leaders" of the GOP have broken any laws.
No but I bet Jimmy Carter violated it more than a few times. How about when John Kerry met with the Sandinistas int he 80's? Was that a violation of the Logan Act?
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
President Obama apparently didn't learn how our government works. He seems to think Congress works for him.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
President Obama apparently didn't learn how our government works. He seems to think Congress works for him.
By all accounts, it is the GOP senators who don't know how the government works.
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
This keeps getting better everyday.
After legal scholars and retired federal judges have affirmed that any agreement between obama/kerry must be ratified by The Senate, kerry is now backing down.
Today, Kerry stated that the negotiations his is having with Iran now about their nuclear weapons program would:
"be not legally binding".
The wheels are coming off obama's bus fast.
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
I don't know what Doug is talking about; but re: the ACA there were multiple times that the Obama administration delayed compliance for various issues because they could not be met in a timely fashion. That was a signed law. On April 15th I am thinking of not paying my taxes and using the same rationale
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
___________________________________________________
The responsibility to prosecute falls on the Justice Department.
Obama's boy holder will simply not prosecute his boss.
There currently 17 lawsuits against the obama administration and obamacare.
The most significant legal challenge is now in the hands of The Supreme Court and a ruling is due in June.
If the court rules in favor of The People, obamacare is done and outta here.
To the rest of the world it has got to look like our whole system of governing is unraveling, that we are hopelessly divided and lack the will and cohesiveness necessary to carry out our role as world leaders in diplomacy. That is a dangerous message to send. All members of our elected government are responsible for that message, and since we elect them, that means that we the people are ultimately responsible. We have got to get it together.
Looks pretty much akin to treason, to this Limey!
The Iranians are laughing at those buffoons.
Right. But they are very sober minded about the buffoon in the White House who they are rolling and the bigger buffoon at Foggy Bottom.
What kind of dope could have voted for that "buffoon in the White House" I'm thinking, Doug?
This is an easy to follow, step by step explanation of how the treaty process works in the US:
http://www.childrightscampaign.org/why-ratify/how-does-the-united-states-ratify-treaties
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
President Obama apparently didn't learn how our government works. He seems to think Congress works for him.
By all accounts, it is the GOP senators who don't know how the government works.
I think they explained in their letter EXACTLY how our government works. It should have been sent to Obama rather thanthe Mullahs who don't need to know how our government works.
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
In my honest and serious opinion he is violating the spirit of the Constitution on an ongoing and consistent basis. It is an open question and probably a political one whether he is actually violating the law. His actions have been reversed really a pretty remarkable number of times by 9-0 votes in the Supreme Court. The only way for Congress to really fight a president it sees as behaving in unconstitutional ways is impeachment. For assorted reasons, that is not a viable option.
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
I don't know what Doug is talking about; but re: the ACA there were multiple times that the Obama administration delayed compliance for various issues because they could not be met in a timely fashion. That was a signed law. On April 15th I am thinking of not paying my taxes and using the same rationale
That's one major example. There are others.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
President Obama apparently didn't learn how our government works. He seems to think Congress works for him.
By all accounts, it is the GOP senators who don't know how the government works.
I think they explained in their letter EXACTLY how our government works. It should have been sent to Obama rather thanthe Mullahs who don't need to know how our government works.
No, you don't get it. There are 6 countries negotiating with Iran. If an agreement is reached, do you think the other 5 countries will not sign the treaty if The Senate doesn't approve it? This is not a one on one treaty and the U.S. Is only part of it.
The leaders in Iran know exactly how the US govt works, probably better than most US citizens do. This is one of the most egregious overreaches by congress that I can remember. Shameful.
Are you sure? Do they teach US civics classes in Iran?
US civics classes don't teach US citizens much about how our government works. I'm sure the leaders of Iran are capable of learning our rules all by themselves by reading them. More of our citizens (apparently including members of congress) should do the same.
It looks like the Logan Act was written about when, 1799, and is probably unconstitutional on its face. The last actual prosecution was I think 1803 or something like that. I highly doubt there will be any legal prosecution of these senators. Regardless, it was still a terrible move on their part. We have got to get it together.
President Obama apparently didn't learn how our government works. He seems to think Congress works for him.
By all accounts, it is the GOP senators who don't know how the government works.
I think they explained in their letter EXACTLY how our government works. It should have been sent to Obama rather thanthe Mullahs who don't need to know how our government works.
No, you don't get it. There are 6 countries negotiating with Iran. If an agreement is reached, do you think the other 5 countries will not sign the treaty if The Senate doesn't approve it? This is not a one on one treaty and the U.S. Is only part of it.
_______________________________________________________________
Anyone notice that no one ever gets what keller is saying?
Doughron, serious question: I don't claim to be any type of expert on law, but you keep mentioning Obama doesn't know the law....what law did he break and if he did, why isn't anyone doing anything about it? I keep hearing from different law "experts" on TV that he did break the law, but the other expert says he is following the Constitution appropriately. If all these experts have different answers, then how do we know who is right? Wouldn't a Republican push to press charges if he truly did violate the law? Serious question.....I'm very confused by all the conflicting info in the media from our supposed experts.
In my honest and serious opinion he is violating the spirit of the Constitution on an ongoing and consistent basis. It is an open question and probably a political one whether he is actually violating the law. His actions have been reversed really a pretty remarkable number of times by 9-0 votes in the Supreme Court. The only way for Congress to really fight a president it sees as behaving in unconstitutional ways is impeachment. For assorted reasons, that is not a viable option.
And this is the 2nd time you have claimed this Doug and it is false and GOP generated BS. He has not been reversed by Supreme Court a remarkable number of times by 9-0 decisions.
And this is not from some left wing liberal website but by politifact which is a non partisan fact checking organization which even you finally grudgingly admitted is independent.
It took me exactly 15 seconds to verify this using Google. You're letting your hatred of Obama effect your ability to be objective. You have to stop quoting GOP politicians and right wing websites and check your facts.
[Edited on 3/12/2015 by Bill_Graham]
[Edited on 3/12/2015 by Bill_Graham]
