You all know I have defended Obama in the past, but allowing Syrian refugees here after seeing what happened in Paris, makes absolutely no sense. It's irresponsible and dangerous. I hope he comes to his senses.
I hear what you are saying Boyton but the terrorists who attacked Paris were not refugees. The refugees are not terrorists. They are people displaced by the terrorists. They are victims. I understand the xenophobia and I my stomach feels queasy when I thing that we might be importing terrorists. I believe these people are not terrorists.
Do I know for certain no terrorists will be among the refugees? No. But there are a lot of Muslims living and working around where I live now. I interact with many. Any of them could be a terrorist as could the right wing Christians that populate the area.
These refugees are people who need help.
https://niskanencenter.org/blog/six-reasons-to-welcome-syrian-refugees-after-paris/
After the attacks on Paris, many politicians--including (so far) the governors of Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Michigan, and Texas--have called for stopping refugee flows to the United States from the Middle East, claiming that the refugee process poses a major threat to America's security. Here are six reasons why ending U.S. refugee resettlement is a senseless and reactionary approach:
1. The Paris attackers were not refugees: Assuming that the user of a fake Syrian passport found near the body of an attacker belonged to the attacker, which isn't clear, he exploited the flow of people into Europe, but he was not a refugee. He did not receive refugee designation from the United Nations or vetting from intelligence agencies. He was never approved for refugee status in any country. To become a refugee in the United States, you undergo a multi-stage vetting process and only after receiving U.N. designation by trained officers in the field. The U.S. can vet refugees prior to admission, which means we can weed out terrorists and those most likely to become involved in terrorism, accepting only the most vulnerable. Europe cannot do the same. What happened in Paris is not applicable to the U.S. refugee process.
2. U.S. refugees don't become terrorists: The history of the U.S. refugee program demonstrates that the lengthy and extensive vetting that all refugees must undergo is an effective deterrent for terrorists. Since 1980, the U.S. has invited in millions of refugees, including hundreds of thousands from the Middle East. Not one has committed an act of terrorism in the U.S. Traditional law enforcement and security screening processes have a proven record of handling the threat from refugees.
3. Other migration channels are easier to exploit than the U.S. refugee process: The previous point can also be made another way. Non-refugees have carried out all terrorist attacks over the past 35 years. That means they used other means to arrive in the U.S. All of the 9/11 hijackers used student or tourist visas. These visas are much easier and faster to obtain than refugee status, which takes up to two years and requires a multi-stage vetting process and U.N. referral. Refugee status is the single most difficult way to come to the U.S. It makes no sense for a terrorist to try to use the resettlement process for an attack.
4. ISIS sees Syrian refugees as traitors: According to ISIS, Syrian Muslim refugees are traitors to the radical Islamic cause. "It is correct for Muslims to leave the lands of the infidel for the lands of Islam, but not vice versa," one ISIS video said in September. Here are several other examples of similar condemnation from this year. Nearly 90 percent of displaced Syrians in Turkey have no sympathy for ISIS at all, even though ISIS is fighting the person, Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, who most refugees see as their main enemy. Kurdish and Christian refugees see ISIS as their main foe. Some have speculated that the attacker in Paris intentionally left the fake Syrian passport near his body to help turn the West against Syrian refugees. Turning away Syrian refugees plays into ISIS's hands.
5. Turning away allies will make us less safe: Callous disregard for the fate of refugees--our potential allies in the war against ISIS--will drive them back into the hands of the person they are fleeing: Bashar al-Assad, the hated Syrian dictator. This will lead some refugees to see ISIS as their only remaining ally and safeguard against Assad. The evidence in the academic literature is that keeping refugees penned-up in camps near the zone of conflict increases terrorism in those areas, but resettling them outside of those areas does not. During the Cold War, we used refugee resettlement to gain foreign policy assets, spies, allies, and spokesmen to refute the enemy's propaganda. In the fight against ISIS, allies gained from aiding refugees will be as important as any weapon we have.
6. America should demonstrate moral courage: During World War II, the U.S. turned away Jews due to security concerns. We sent shiploads back to the camps because we were scared that Nazi spies could hide in their midst (which was not an entirely unfounded concern). The lesson of the Holocaust, as I noted here, is that we must deal with threats without rejecting our ethical obligations. We must not send those fleeing persecution back to their persecutors. The definition of moral courage is to resist allowing fear to overwhelm our humanity.
Cross-posted from NiskanenCenter.org
i made a comment about "nation building" in the other thread. refugee's are a good place to start a "nation building" program. show them our compassion and willingness to help. teach them our values. when the time is right, send them home. the time will not be right unless we are serious about occupying that region for many decades. i don't like the idea of daesh sneaking in thru the refugee program but most of these people are fleeing the same things that we hate.
I hear what you are saying Boyton but the terrorists who attacked Paris were not refugees. The refugees are not terrorists. They are people displaced by the terrorists. They are victims. I understand the xenophobia and I my stomach feels queasy when I thing that we might be importing terrorists. I believe these people are not terrorists.
Do I know for certain no terrorists will be among the refugees? No. But there are a lot of Muslims living and working around where I live now. I interact with many. Any of them could be a terrorist as could the right wing Christians that populate the area.
These refugees are people who need help.
https://niskanencenter.org/blog/six-reasons-to-welcome-syrian-refugees-after-paris/
After the attacks on Paris, many politicians--including (so far) the governors of Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Michigan, and Texas--have called for stopping refugee flows to the United States from the Middle East, claiming that the refugee process poses a major threat to America's security. Here are six reasons why ending U.S. refugee resettlement is a senseless and reactionary approach:
1. The Paris attackers were not refugees: Assuming that the user of a fake Syrian passport found near the body of an attacker belonged to the attacker, which isn't clear, he exploited the flow of people into Europe, but he was not a refugee. He did not receive refugee designation from the United Nations or vetting from intelligence agencies. He was never approved for refugee status in any country. To become a refugee in the United States, you undergo a multi-stage vetting process and only after receiving U.N. designation by trained officers in the field. The U.S. can vet refugees prior to admission, which means we can weed out terrorists and those most likely to become involved in terrorism, accepting only the most vulnerable. Europe cannot do the same. What happened in Paris is not applicable to the U.S. refugee process.
2. U.S. refugees don't become terrorists: The history of the U.S. refugee program demonstrates that the lengthy and extensive vetting that all refugees must undergo is an effective deterrent for terrorists. Since 1980, the U.S. has invited in millions of refugees, including hundreds of thousands from the Middle East. Not one has committed an act of terrorism in the U.S. Traditional law enforcement and security screening processes have a proven record of handling the threat from refugees.
3. Other migration channels are easier to exploit than the U.S. refugee process: The previous point can also be made another way. Non-refugees have carried out all terrorist attacks over the past 35 years. That means they used other means to arrive in the U.S. All of the 9/11 hijackers used student or tourist visas. These visas are much easier and faster to obtain than refugee status, which takes up to two years and requires a multi-stage vetting process and U.N. referral. Refugee status is the single most difficult way to come to the U.S. It makes no sense for a terrorist to try to use the resettlement process for an attack.
4. ISIS sees Syrian refugees as traitors: According to ISIS, Syrian Muslim refugees are traitors to the radical Islamic cause. "It is correct for Muslims to leave the lands of the infidel for the lands of Islam, but not vice versa," one ISIS video said in September. Here are several other examples of similar condemnation from this year. Nearly 90 percent of displaced Syrians in Turkey have no sympathy for ISIS at all, even though ISIS is fighting the person, Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad, who most refugees see as their main enemy. Kurdish and Christian refugees see ISIS as their main foe. Some have speculated that the attacker in Paris intentionally left the fake Syrian passport near his body to help turn the West against Syrian refugees. Turning away Syrian refugees plays into ISIS's hands.
5. Turning away allies will make us less safe: Callous disregard for the fate of refugees--our potential allies in the war against ISIS--will drive them back into the hands of the person they are fleeing: Bashar al-Assad, the hated Syrian dictator. This will lead some refugees to see ISIS as their only remaining ally and safeguard against Assad. The evidence in the academic literature is that keeping refugees penned-up in camps near the zone of conflict increases terrorism in those areas, but resettling them outside of those areas does not. During the Cold War, we used refugee resettlement to gain foreign policy assets, spies, allies, and spokesmen to refute the enemy's propaganda. In the fight against ISIS, allies gained from aiding refugees will be as important as any weapon we have.
6. America should demonstrate moral courage: During World War II, the U.S. turned away Jews due to security concerns. We sent shiploads back to the camps because we were scared that Nazi spies could hide in their midst (which was not an entirely unfounded concern). The lesson of the Holocaust, as I noted here, is that we must deal with threats without rejecting our ethical obligations. We must not send those fleeing persecution back to their persecutors. The definition of moral courage is to resist allowing fear to overwhelm our humanity.
Cross-posted from NiskanenCenter.org
_____________________________________________________________________
It has already been proven by French Security Services that some of the ISIS Islamic Extremist Terrorist that attacked Paris Friday night had trained with ISIS in Syria.
17 State Governors are standing up to keep their citizens safe. Obama’s reckless policy is being rejected.
Obama plan for Syrian refugees scrambled by state opposition
The resistance at the state level is coalescing at a rapid clip. So far, governors in at least 17 states have moved to suspend or restrict the refugee resettlement, including Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin.
When asked today about allowing Syrian refugees to freely flow into any county, a French Security Director simply threw his hand into the air and exclaimed "Fools!"
i understand peoples concerns and they are justified. but, can't believe as an atheist i'm saying this, but sometimes it takes faith to bring change.
17 State Governors are standing up to keep their citizens safe. Obama’s reckless policy is being rejected.
Obama plan for Syrian refugees scrambled by state opposition
The resistance at the state level is coalescing at a rapid clip. So far, governors in at least 17 states have moved to suspend or restrict the refugee resettlement, including Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin.
When asked today about allowing Syrian refugees to freely flow into any county, a French Security Director simply threw his hand into the air and exclaimed "Fools!"
What those 17 governors are doing is unconstitutional.
17 State Governors are standing up to keep their citizens safe. Obama’s reckless policy is being rejected.
Obama plan for Syrian refugees scrambled by state opposition
The resistance at the state level is coalescing at a rapid clip. So far, governors in at least 17 states have moved to suspend or restrict the refugee resettlement, including Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin.
When asked today about allowing Syrian refugees to freely flow into any county, a French Security Director simply threw his hand into the air and exclaimed "Fools!"
What those 17 governors are doing is unconstitutional.
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
Obama administration officials are telling three different stories on the Syrian Refugees:
White House Deputy National Security Adviser Ben Rhodes (brother of the CBS News President):
The U.S. has “very robust vetting procedures” for the refugees. A senior administration official said Monday all refugees are subject to "the highest level of security checks of any category of traveler to the United States," including the involvement of several law enforcement and security agencies.
Homeland Security Sec. Jeh Johnson:
“We may have someone who is not on our radar and someone may choose to do something bad after they get here,” Department of Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said. “We can only query against what we have collected, so if someone hasn’t made a ripple in the pond, we can check our databases until the cows come home but we have no record on that person.”
CIA Director John Brennan:
CIA Director John Brennan said today that “there is no way to vet the Syrian Refugees coming into The U.S. as The U.S. has no diplomatic relationship with Syria”.
It would seem that Obama may want to have a meeting with his senior advisors.
Christians who want to close our borders and keep the Syrian refugees out are so right about this whole Syrian refugee thing - good thing Jesus, Mary and Joseph weren't middle eastern refugees..... oh, wait.
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
I wonder what the courts would have decided about the Jewish refugees in 1938? Were any of those folks people you know emr?
Billy, maybe I heard wrong, but I thought I heard on the news that one of the terrorists from Paris did indeed pose as a Syrian refugee to get into Europe. Not sure if it's true, but....to pose as a refugee seems like a pretty obvious scenario if you are a terrorist and want to get into the US. If Paris didn't happen, I'd be all for it.
17 State Governors are standing up to keep their citizens safe. Obama’s reckless policy is being rejected.
Obama plan for Syrian refugees scrambled by state opposition
The resistance at the state level is coalescing at a rapid clip. So far, governors in at least 17 states have moved to suspend or restrict the refugee resettlement, including Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin.
When asked today about allowing Syrian refugees to freely flow into any county, a French Security Director simply threw his hand into the air and exclaimed "Fools!"
What those 17 governors are doing is unconstitutional.
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
The Refugee Act of 1980 is pretty clear about it.
The governors are just blowing political smoke.
The courts will decide; like the previous threat about Obama's last immigration policy defeat
I wonder what the courts would have decided about the Jewish refugees in 1938? Were any of those folks people you know emr?
You appropriately identify the issue (Ship Of Fools) that causes my flip-flop around this issue. My compromise stance is strong vetting of those accepted in. To my knowledge the Jews; Catholics and Gypsies displaced by Hitler were not involved in terrorism. Prior to that Ellis Island had tight screening
PART 2
And I just don't trust the administration. I personally have witnessed thousands of illegals receiving health insurance despite the governments assurance that this will never happen. Their word on immigration issues mean nothing
You appropriately identify the issue (Ship Of Fools) that causes my flip-flop around this issue. My compromise stance is strong vetting of those accepted in. To my knowledge the Jews; Catholics and Gypsies displaced by Hitler were not involved in terrorism. Prior to that Ellis Island had tight screening
Good point emr. But, from what I'm reading no refugees have been involved in terrorism either. When an entire people are condemned because of how they look or what they believe... bad things happen.
Please check your PM's emr.
Good morning Brother Boyton! I've read about the forged Syrian passport as well. I've also read a man was arrested in Serbia with a duplicate of the forged passport. If true that is problematic because it means they could forge a passport from anywhere, no?
I spend a lot of time in DC at "soft targets". I go to a lot of concerts, sporting events and restaurants. I hate that I sometimes look around at a football game or baseball game and think, "what if". I've never been concerned at a concert but recent events will probably having me checking out the exits and looking for an escape route. I think it sucks but the world has never been a safe place.
The refugees are fleeing a very unsafe place. Three of my Grandparents were immigrants coming to America from Greece, Ukraine and Colombia. They were not refugees but they were looking for, and found a better life in America. There is a part of me that wants to throw up a wall and isolate the US from the rest of the world. But the better part of me says we should help these people.
If there is a terrorist among the refugees and things go sideways we will never hear about the lives saved or the good that came from allowing these refugees onto our shores. We will never know if the good out weighs the bad but I still think we need to help these folks.
And I just don't trust the administration. I personally have witnessed thousands of illegals receiving health insurance despite the governments assurance that this will never happen. Their word on immigration issues mean nothing
For the record, I don't trust this, or any administration.
Whether you agree with this point of view or not or not, it is worth the 5 mins (FB account not required)....
The majority of States are now refusing to allow Obama to dump Syrian refugees on them and endangering their citizens.
Scores of people in a position to know are publically stating that the Syrian refugees cannot be vetted.
Yesterday at his G-20 speech Obama was clearly irritated with the media’s repeated questions on this subject. The press kept asking because Obama kept not answering their questions directly. He looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton at Saturday night’s debate. Obama was hammered by the White House Press Corp. and annoyed with those who he used to count on to parrot his agenda. Obama’s embarrassing speech to the world yesterday didn’t make the front page of most American newspapers this morning.
Obama was impassioned about American taking in these refugees who are suffering from the war in their country. Where was Obama’s passion over the last few years while his lack of action and failed foreign policies caused the problem?
ISIS announced a long time ago that they are covertly inserting their fighters into the fleeing refugees.
Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein was loudest of the Democrats yesterday on the need for Obama to clearly state a Syrian refugee relocation program before Congress and The American People. Sen. Feinstein is one of the few hawks in the Democratic Party but her words carry a lot of weight.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
The odds are better that you get shot in a movie theatre or you kid gets shot at school.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
The xenophobic reactions we are seeing are based on partisan politics, pure and simple. They also are playing right into ISIS hands, exactly the kind of reaction they were looking for. Ironically they are also about as unAmerican as it gets.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
The odds are better that you get shot in a movie theatre or you kid gets shot at school.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
________________________________________________________________________
Typical weak and removed from reality response from you.
When acts or terrorism can be prevented every step must be taken.
The odds of being shot are much greater in the ghettos of the cities rum by democrats.
When acts or terrorism can be prevented every step must be taken.
Xenophobia is not the answer. I am reminded of Anne Frank. She was denied access to refugee resettlement in the US because of fear of her religion. Instead, she died at Bergen-Belsen concentration camp at the age of 15. Her diary has sold more than 75 million copies.
Also interesting how callously these governors and others are treating the US Constitution. I guess if it isn't the 2nd amendment then the Constitution isn't worth the parchment it is written on to them.
[Edited on 11/17/2015 by gondicar]
The odds of being shot are much greater in the ghettos of the cities rum by democrats.
So why don't you support a "war on guns"? Afraid it will get in the way of the "war on Christmas"?
After attacks like the one in Paris, we need leaders who can stand up for our values rather than be ruled by fear.
It’s natural to be afraid after hearing about terrorist attacks like the one in Paris last week, and to want to take every reasonable precaution to protect yourself. But out-of-control fear is not going to make anybody safe.
Unfortunately, there’s been an embarrassing parade of governors in the United States who don’t see it that way. They are announcing that in light of the Paris attacks, they would not permit any Syrian refugees to be sheltered in their states. We are not surprised, but still disappointed, that Maine Gov. Paul LePage has joined the chorus of these fearful politicians who are conflating the victims of terror with its perpetrators.
The anti-refugee argument goes like this: At least one of the killers in Paris was carrying a Syrian passport and he appears to have come into Western Europe on the migrant trail, along with hundreds of thousands of refugees from Syria’s brutal three-way civil war. Since it is difficult to tell real refugees from impostors, the argument goes, the U.S. can’t risk helping any of them. This is ridiculous.
If they had been pretending to be tourists instead of migrants, would we end tourism? If they had been hiding in cargo ships, would we stop world trade? No, and we should not abandon people in need just because we’re scared.
It would not only be inhumane, it’s impractical. Paris is a city of 2.2 million people, with 15 million international visitors each year. There were only eight terrorists involved in the Paris attack.
There is no way that a free country could develop a screening process so tight that eight individuals intent on mayhem couldn’t slip through. This war will not be won by Western democracies abandoning their values and turning themelves into prisons, which is what that level of control over free movement would require.
And shutting out refugees puts us on the wrong side in this conflict. The refugees leaving Syria are running for their lives. By interfering with their escape, we would be helping the Islamic State.
The anti-refugee rhetoric is finding its most fertile ground in the Republican presidential nominating process, where contenders are trying to outdo each other with intolerance, and showing an un-American comfort with religious bigotry.
Former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush has suggested that the only acceptable refugees from Syria would be the minority Christians, leaving Muslim victims to their fate. Not to be outdone, Donald Trump has suggested that America should “watch and study” American Muslims’ places of worship, and “strongly consider” shutting some of them down.
Gov. LePage released a radio address Monday that criticizes the Obama administration’s commitment to taking in 10,000 Syrian refugees over the next year. “This is not a time to incite panic or fear,” LePage says in his address. We agree.
It’s too bad that’s just what he’s doing at a time when we need more from our leaders.
http://www.pressherald.com/2015/11/17/our-view-lepage-exploits-fear-with-syrian-refugee-ban/
The odds of being shot are much greater in the ghettos of the cities rum by democrats.
So why don't you support a "war on guns"? Afraid it will get in the way of the "war on Christmas"?
________________________________________________________________________
I do support a war on guns in the hands of criminals.
It is the liberals who want to take guns away from law abiding citizens, take away their constitutional right to defend themselves.
It is also the liberals who refuse to enforce the laws already on the books allowing the criminals to kill at will.
The majority of States are now refusing to allow Obama to dump Syrian refugees on them and endangering their citizens.
Scores of people in a position to know are publically stating that the Syrian refugees cannot be vetted.
Yesterday at his G-20 speech Obama was clearly irritated with the media’s repeated questions on this subject. The press kept asking because Obama kept not answering their questions directly. He looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton at Saturday night’s debate. Obama was hammered by the White House Press Corp. and annoyed with those who he used to count on to parrot his agenda. Obama’s embarrassing speech to the world yesterday didn’t make the front page of most American newspapers this morning.
Obama was impassioned about American taking in these refugees who are suffering from the war in their country. Where was Obama’s passion over the last few years while his lack of action and failed foreign policies caused the problem?
ISIS announced a long time ago that they are covertly inserting their fighters into the fleeing refugees.
Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein was loudest of the Democrats yesterday on the need for Obama to clearly state a Syrian refugee relocation program before Congress and The American People. Sen. Feinstein is one of the few hawks in the Democratic Party but her words carry a lot of weight.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
This is all nonsense and also cowardly. ISIS was created by George W and is an example of REPUBLICAN failed war policy. Every piece of evidence supports this.
It was the ISIS objective to make the rest of the world fear the refugees. They have succeeded.
The current Republican leadership has surrendered to ISIS. The governors who are almost all Republican have also surrendered to ISIS. They are all afraid! ISIS will be emboldened by this overt display of fear.
The majority of States are now refusing to allow Obama to dump Syrian refugees on them and endangering their citizens.
Scores of people in a position to know are publically stating that the Syrian refugees cannot be vetted.
Yesterday at his G-20 speech Obama was clearly irritated with the media’s repeated questions on this subject. The press kept asking because Obama kept not answering their questions directly. He looked and sounded like Hillary Clinton at Saturday night’s debate. Obama was hammered by the White House Press Corp. and annoyed with those who he used to count on to parrot his agenda. Obama’s embarrassing speech to the world yesterday didn’t make the front page of most American newspapers this morning.
Obama was impassioned about American taking in these refugees who are suffering from the war in their country. Where was Obama’s passion over the last few years while his lack of action and failed foreign policies caused the problem?
ISIS announced a long time ago that they are covertly inserting their fighters into the fleeing refugees.
Democrat Senator Dianne Feinstein was loudest of the Democrats yesterday on the need for Obama to clearly state a Syrian refugee relocation program before Congress and The American People. Sen. Feinstein is one of the few hawks in the Democratic Party but her words carry a lot of weight.
A Trojan horse is coming to American. The American People see it and want Obama to put their safety put first.
This is all nonsense and also cowardly. ISIS was created by George W and is an example of REPUBLICAN failed war policy. Every piece of evidence supports this.
It was the ISIS objective to make the rest of the world fear the refugees. They have succeeded.
The current Republican leadership has surrendered to ISIS. The governors who are almost all Republican have also surrendered to ISIS. They are all afraid! ISIS will be emboldened by this overt display of fear.
______________________________________________________________________
ISIS is emboldened by Obama. They know he is weak and because of his complete failure on foreign policy they were able to grow exponentially.
ISIS must really enjoy Obama's speeches when he repeatedly states what he will not do.
Xenophobia and cowardice on full display from the muleman and the rest of the radical right today. Is anyone surprised?
