I find it hard to believe how few people care that Obama and his allies blatantly lied over and over again in order to pass a massive piece of legislation that NEVER would have passed if they were honest about it. When you come down to it that is all that matters. One of the hallmarks of the illiberal left is the idea "by any means necessary". That seems to me more and more what's going on here with this administration and its supporters. Any decent liberals or people who believe in the constitution and the rule of law should oppose this insanity.
Perhaps the people who voted on it should have read it first. 😛
What also is funny is that the conservatives don't want any bills passed that don't pay for themselves, blah blah blah... all the things they are putting on the table to change are all things that pay for the bill..... get rid of the medical device tax, get rid of the penalty for not having it, etc. Not that some of the ideas aren't bad and won't get implemented, but once again they are talking out of both sides of their mouth....
No Conservatives ever supported the bill under any circumstances. And nobody making less than $250,000 was supposed to pay "one dime" in additional taxes, remember?
And yet even with a Republican majority in the House the bill passed. How did that happen?
Not correct. The Ds controlled both the House and Senate when ACA was voted on and passed.
There are some folks in this here thread that are extremely knowledgeable about how politics and Washington work that are showing some serious faux outrage, all of the sudden pretending that they don't know how sausage is made in DC.
Pretty funny to read, actually. 
I don't understand why this would bother people. I mean it wasn't a major piece of legislation like renaming an airport or something. No, this was only a minor deal about our little healthcare system. It was hardly even discussed or debated for two years and received zero media coverage. Nobody knew it was even going on, so why are they outraged now?
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
Yeah, but some Democrats voted in support of that war too, so Republicans are completely exempt from any responsibility whatsoever.
C'mon, man. You knew that.
Here's what I want: honest gov't.
LOL! C'mon Fujirich, we all know that ain't gonna happen, not with any President or any party. Lying is a part of politics. I respect your opinion to oppose Obama and his policies, but if you or anyone else gives your reasons as "because he lied", it's complete B.S. If that's the case, then you and the rest would hate everyone politician.
The questions is.....why do conservatives become more outraged with Obama's lies than other politicians' lies?
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
Cheer up.
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
Yeah, but some Democrats voted in support of that war too, so Republicans are completely exempt from any responsibility whatsoever.
It's correct that some Democrats voted in favor of the war. Like Bush (and many others), they believed that Saddam had WMD's. The ONLY way anybody can be accused of lying us into war is if they knew WITH CERTAINTY (a virtual impossibility) that there WERE NO WMD's yet proceeded anyway. That would constitute a blatant lie, but such was not the case. There's a long list of people that believed in the existence of WMD's.
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
Cheer up.
You should do some more reading on this. It does not vindicate anyone.
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
Yeah, but some Democrats voted in support of that war too, so Republicans are completely exempt from any responsibility whatsoever.
It's correct that some Democrats voted in favor of the war. Like Bush (and many others), they believed that Saddam had WMD's. The ONLY way anybody can be accused of lying us into war is if they knew WITH CERTAINTY (a virtual impossibility) that there WERE NO WMD's yet proceeded anyway. That would constitute a blatant lie, but such was not the case. There's a long list of people that believed in the existence of WMD's.
Complete BS.
[Edited on 11/18/2014 by gondicar]
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
Yeah, but some Democrats voted in support of that war too, so Republicans are completely exempt from any responsibility whatsoever.
It's correct that some Democrats voted in favor of the war. Like Bush (and many others), they believed that Saddam had WMD's. The ONLY way anybody can be accused of lying us into war is if they knew WITH CERTAINTY (a virtual impossibility) that there WERE NO WMD's yet proceeded anyway. That would constitute a blatant lie, but such was not the case. There's a long list of people that believed in the existence of WMD's.
Complete BS.
[Edited on 11/18/2014 by gondicar]
Are you saying that Bush (or anyone else holding that suspicion) knew with CERTAINTY that there were no WMD's and decided to invade anyway? Then prove it before calling him a liar. Nothing in that article proves that Bush didn't believe it. Whether he was ultimately proven right or wrong is not the question. It's whether he "lied us into war."
He didn't.
After being lied into war with Iraq I'm kind of immune.
The Affordable Care Act attempts to help people.
The war with Iraq is a war where we used nuclear weapons, depleted uranium, to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians. The murder isn't over. The birth defects because of the radiation will kill generations of children.
How can anyone be ok with that? Yet conservatives think giving poor people health care is worse.
Disgusting.
Yeah, but some Democrats voted in support of that war too, so Republicans are completely exempt from any responsibility whatsoever.
It's correct that some Democrats voted in favor of the war. Like Bush (and many others), they believed that Saddam had WMD's. The ONLY way anybody can be accused of lying us into war is if they knew WITH CERTAINTY (a virtual impossibility) that there WERE NO WMD's yet proceeded anyway. That would constitute a blatant lie, but such was not the case. There's a long list of people that believed in the existence of WMD's.
Complete BS.
[Edited on 11/18/2014 by gondicar]
Are you saying that Bush (or anyone else holding that suspicion) knew with CERTAINTY that there were no WMD's and decided to invade anyway? Then prove it before calling him a liar. Nothing in that article proves that Bush didn't believe it. Whether he was ultimately proven right or wrong is not the question. It's whether he "lied us into war."
He didn't.
If you look at the case that the Bush administration made for the invasion - before congress, before the UN, and before the American people - it certainly appears that the truth was the least of their concerns. You are free to draw your own conclusions about that.
What isn't up for debate is whether the NY Times article about pre-1991 chemical-weapons shells discovered since 2003 should somehow vindicate the Bush administration.
[Edited on 11/18/2014 by gondicar]
I don't mean to single out expensive cell phone service. But there are people (some who I am related to) who have expensive cell service, expanded cable/internet service, attend expensive concerts and who drive late model cars who DO NOT HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE BECAUSE "THEY CAN'T AFFORD IT!".
BOOM!!
"Boom" meaning what? There are plenty of people who are very irresponsible with their money. What does this have to do with Obamacare?
Gruber took millions in taxpayer money. He was paid for lying to taxpayers to pass a big con, then he made fun of the taxpayers (at least the one's that weren't onto this thing from the start.)
Now that he's admitted it he should be charged with fraud, fined, and forced to return the money.
Just opened some correspondence. My premium will be jumping 15.6% for 2015. That made my day.
Didn't Gruber just get spanked by Issa? I thought I saw a clip of Issa calling him stupid.
Alloak I'm really happy to hear you have insurance. Make sure you keep up with all out of pocket medical expenses. A lot of people don't know that the ACA places a ceiling on what the annual amount a family can spend.
Since you are talking to the insurance company, ask them, "What is an out of pocket maximum and how does it work? Do you keep up with what I spend, deductibles, co-pays... are prescriptions included? Or do I keep up with that?"
I think they keep up with it but I plan on maintaining better records this year.
Just opened some correspondence. My premium will be jumping 15.6% for 2015. That made my day.
After all of this time telling us you don't have insurance No wonder that you are a Republican. Lying to make a point comes naturally to you.
You are probably lying about the rate increase.
I signed up in March.
I thought prices were supposed to come down.
I signed up in March.
Yeah sure.
I thought prices were supposed to come down.
You personally can't really pay less than you were paying before.
Zero point zero.
I thought prices were supposed to come down.
Mine did (or will as of Jan 1).
I thought prices were supposed to come down.
Mine did (or will as of Jan 1).
Mine didn't. Maybe next year.
It is very hard to tell (with higher deductibles/increased patient responsibility for payments) whether ones plan is more or less expenses. I have a PPO; my premiums are down - my co-pays are lower. But; I now need to pay for 10% of any costs generated. So if I'm sick it will be a LOT more expensive. Health care spending has dipped recently; it is unclear whether that is because the "controls" are working or because people are avoiding care due to the high deductibles.
I still think the country needs national health care with an option to buy into higher levels. The ACA is really an income shifting plan; and my objection is that it was cloaked in mystique/secrecy. As Pelosi so famously said "Pass it to see what's in it." It is just delaying the inevitable; and unfortunately the administration(s) going back a while have misled the country re: how bad the economy is that no one is being honest that there just isn't money to pay for the system we need
My costs stayed nearly the same with a couple of changes. I now get two pair of glasses a year instead of one. My dental no longer has a deductible on two annual cleanings.
My co-pays went up in 2014 to $40 for a specialist - that includes chiropractic. $50 for emergency room, $20 for urgent care and regular doctor visits.
Those all stayed the same for 2015.
The premium is up about 1%, far less than in years previous.
I can say that in the last twenty years my healthcare costs have increased substantially more than this years.
Costs increasing less than before doesn't denote a drop in prices. Costs were supposed to come down. We heard it 1,000 times. When does it start?
Blah, Blah, wahhhhhhhhh...
I get so much more for my health care dollar than I spend that I don't care about minor increases.
I'm just glad I no longer have to shoulder your share of the bill.
A lot depends on whether you are self employed; work for a small or a large business. Underwriting is quite different
