I don't mean to upset anyone
I believe in P&L & have as much empathy as anyone
I just happen to believe fair is fair -- but fairness I suppose goes out the window when dealing with a crime of this magnitude -- there's no aspect of fairness to any of it
peace

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

FOX news reports that the first American to be killed in fighting with ISIS was on June 10. I found no reports of others since, although I did find a report of one American that was killed fighting for ISIS last August.

ISIS has also killed four American hostages, the last being 26-year-old Kayla Mueller from Arizona in February, again according to FOX news.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.

[Edited on 6/24/2015 by gondicar]

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I agree with your statement here. However, it seems like you didn't feel that way about those locked away in Guantanamo. Didn't you say those prisoners didn't have rights to a trial because they were not US citizens? Do rights endowed by the creator somehow not apply to everyone?

Those rights do not apply to alien combatants committing acts of war against the United States. Those people do have rights naturally but not the rights of U.S. citizens commititng crimes on U.S. soil.

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I mean every last word of it
Numerous people have been unfairly handed life sentences -- of heart skickness -- their loved ones were methodically executed while attending church --
while some smile and shrug their shoulders at this, to me it's a heinous crime of the most despicable sort that deserves the most exacting standards of justice -- death, no questions asked
I know that many are sticking up for this serial killer in the belief that he deserves rights, and may have been on drugs at the time so that he can't be held responsible for his mass murders --
would you feel the same way if something like this occured in your family???

[Edited on 6/23/2015 by Stephen]

Believing he is entitled to a fair trial and legal representation is hardly "sticking up for him." I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law. This seems to indicate it is so, at least for you.

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

What would you do with those resources to battle "mass shootings."

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

FOX news reports that the first American to be killed in fighting with ISIS was on June 10. I found no reports of others since, although I did find a report of one American that was killed fighting for ISIS last August.

ISIS has also killed four American hostages, the last being 26-year-old Kayla Mueller from Arizona in February, again according to FOX news.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.
_________________________________________________________________________

Your link was to an opinion piece.

You still have not learned the difference between hard news and opinion/discussion.
There is also a big difference between Americans killed by ISIS and those executed.

You’re nuanced “analysis” is again flawed.

Obama’s “diminish and destroy” ISIS is a complete failure much as his entire presidency.
ISIS continues to grow, seize more land and kill more people.

The results are what matters and Obama has none.

 

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

FOX news reports that the first American to be killed in fighting with ISIS was on June 10. I found no reports of others since, although I did find a report of one American that was killed fighting for ISIS last August.

ISIS has also killed four American hostages, the last being 26-year-old Kayla Mueller from Arizona in February, again according to FOX news.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.
_________________________________________________________________________

Your link was to an opinion piece.

You still have not learned the difference between hard news and opinion/discussion.
There is also a big difference between Americans killed by ISIS and those executed.

You’re nuanced “analysis” is again flawed.

Obama’s “diminish and destroy” ISIS is a complete failure much as his entire presidency.
ISIS continues to grow, seize more land and kill more people.

The results are what matters and Obama has none.

So how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?

 

I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law.

Where on earth do you come up with this stuff? Do you dream it at night and hit the keyboard the next A.M.?

Your suspicion is one of the most off-base & ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

FOX news reports that the first American to be killed in fighting with ISIS was on June 10. I found no reports of others since, although I did find a report of one American that was killed fighting for ISIS last August.

ISIS has also killed four American hostages, the last being 26-year-old Kayla Mueller from Arizona in February, again according to FOX news.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.
_________________________________________________________________________

Your link was to an opinion piece.

You still have not learned the difference between hard news and opinion/discussion.
There is also a big difference between Americans killed by ISIS and those executed.

You’re nuanced “analysis” is again flawed.

Obama’s “diminish and destroy” ISIS is a complete failure much as his entire presidency.
ISIS continues to grow, seize more land and kill more people.

The results are what matters and Obama has none.

So how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?

________________________________________________________________________

Any more than zero is all that matters.

The People can either choose to wipe out terrorism or be subject to it.

 

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.

Once again, Muleman is called out for his blatant lies, and all he can do is keep trying to change the subject back to bashing liberals which is apparently the only thing his one-track mind can handle.

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I agree with your statement here. However, it seems like you didn't feel that way about those locked away in Guantanamo. Didn't you say those prisoners didn't have rights to a trial because they were not US citizens? Do rights endowed by the creator somehow not apply to everyone?

Those rights do not apply to alien combatants committing acts of war against the United States. Those people do have rights naturally but not the rights of U.S. citizens commititng crimes on U.S. soil.

Just to make sure I understand, one of the rights "endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state" is the "right to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers." Except these rights "do not apply to alien combatants committing acts of war against the United States." In that case, the state can take away rights endowed by the creator. Did you check with the creator about this? I don't think the creator would make such an exemption.

Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

Are you kidding?

Now if you would have said “in the last two minutes” you might have been accurate.

FOX news reports that the first American to be killed in fighting with ISIS was on June 10. I found no reports of others since, although I did find a report of one American that was killed fighting for ISIS last August.

ISIS has also killed four American hostages, the last being 26-year-old Kayla Mueller from Arizona in February, again according to FOX news.

That's a total of 5 Americans killed by ISIS (6 counting the one killed fighting for them). Dylan Roof killed 9 Americans. If you have info on more Americans that have been killed by ISIS from a "real" source that FOX and others have not reported, please share the link.
_________________________________________________________________________

Your link was to an opinion piece.

You still have not learned the difference between hard news and opinion/discussion.
There is also a big difference between Americans killed by ISIS and those executed.

You’re nuanced “analysis” is again flawed.

Obama’s “diminish and destroy” ISIS is a complete failure much as his entire presidency.
ISIS continues to grow, seize more land and kill more people.

The results are what matters and Obama has none.

So how many Americans have been killed by ISIS?

________________________________________________________________________

Any more than zero is all that matters.

The People can either choose to wipe out terrorism or be subject to it.

The US has spent 2.7 billion dollars so far to fight an organization that has only killed 5 US citizens. I guess money doesn't mean much to people like you who don't are about debt or the deficit, but it seems to me that this money is just thrown down a rabbit hole.

Kill a few people in a dramatic way to get attention, get the attention of the talking heads on the 24 hour news networks, and the sheep take the bait and distract the US citizens from things that really matter. Billions of dollars wasted. They win.

 

quote:
Roof killed more Americans in this one heinous act than ISIS has killed in two years.

If we committed a tenth of the resources we commit to battling ISIS to mass shootings I bet we could save a lot of American lives.

What would you do with those resources to battle "mass shootings."

____________________

I keep hearing gun advocates complain that the laws on the books aren't being enforced. Perhaps task forces could be created to specifically enforce our current gun laws.

Perhaps a national gun tracking system could be implemented?

I don't really know. I sold my handguns. I still have a Henry rifle and a.22 rifle, as well as a shotgun... I inherited them and I don't use them. Perhaps the responsible gun owners should be coming up with answers to keep guns out of the hands of the lunatic fringe.

Just like the millions of peaceful Muslims should be combatting Islamic extremism.

I know we are spending a lot of money to combat ISIS and they don't seem to be too big a threat to America. They certainly haven't killed as many Americans as mass shootings have killed.

For starters... with every prescription issued for SSRI anti-depressant drugs, gun confiscation, and forfeiture of search-and-seizure rights to allow weekly inspection of premises for weapons.

For starters... with every prescription issued for SSRI anti-depressant drugs, gun confiscation, and forfeiture of search-and-seizure rights to allow weekly inspection of premises for weapons.

So you don't want people to get treated for depression or other metal disorders then?

For starters... with every prescription issued for SSRI anti-depressant drugs, gun confiscation, and forfeiture of search-and-seizure rights to allow weekly inspection of premises for weapons.

If there are to be recommendations to remedy the problem, please put some thought into them.

The 4th amendment guarantees freedom from government intrusion into our homes. Period. Warrants are required. As far as I know, illness is not probable cause for a warrant.

Approximately 37% of people over 65 are clinically depressed and 30% of them are treated with SSRIs. That is for patients outside nursing homes. In nursing facilities, that number is significantly higher.

Between 7-16% of new mothers suffer postpartum depression and are treated with SSRIs; that number rises to 40% for mothers who have already had one episode of PPD.

The military doesn't release the actual number of cases of veterans who suffer PTSD for which standard treatment is SSRIs.

What is suggested further stigmatizes patients with mental disorders that are just as biologically driven as physical disorders. Patients are more likely to hurt themselves than someone else.

And to be specific, no one has indicated that Roof was on ANY medication. He was arrested for possession of a substance used for heroin detox.

I'm trying to be polite, but this suggestion would put an egregious burden on police resources and target the most fragile among us.

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I mean every last word of it
Numerous people have been unfairly handed life sentences -- of heart skickness -- their loved ones were methodically executed while attending church --
while some smile and shrug their shoulders at this, to me it's a heinous crime of the most despicable sort that deserves the most exacting standards of justice -- death, no questions asked
I know that many are sticking up for this serial killer in the belief that he deserves rights, and may have been on drugs at the time so that he can't be held responsible for his mass murders --
would you feel the same way if something like this occured in your family???

[Edited on 6/23/2015 by Stephen]

Believing he is entitled to a fair trial and legal representation is hardly "sticking up for him." I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law. This seems to indicate it is so, at least for you.

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Plenty of disrespect for the Constitution and the founding fathers.

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Plenty of disrespect for the Constitution and the founding fathers.

Not on my part there isn't -- just for criminals who commit heinous crimes -- no offense -- your boy might still beat the rap -- as our founding fathers spin in their graves

[Edited on 6/25/2015 by Stephen]

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Plenty of disrespect for the Constitution and the founding fathers.

Not on my part there isn't -- just for criminals who commit heinous crimes -- no offense -- your boy might still beat the rap -- as our founding fathers spin in their graves

I am not going to engage you. Clearly, you've never read the Constitution. I find your reference to a racist mass murderer as "my boy" repugnant. I consider THAT hate speech.

That was indeed irresponsible on my part -- my apologies -- I need to know better when posting in an upset frame of mind -- peace

I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law.

Where on earth do you come up with this stuff? Do you dream it at night and hit the keyboard the next A.M.?

Your suspicion is one of the most off-base & ridiculous things I've read in a long time.

You are entitled to your opinion sir. I disagree. There is a meme floating around Facebook that says the following "Disrespcting our President and trying to make hinm fail is not patriotitism. It's treason." Stunning numbers of "progressives" commented to support that fascistic statement.

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I agree with your statement here. However, it seems like you didn't feel that way about those locked away in Guantanamo. Didn't you say those prisoners didn't have rights to a trial because they were not US citizens? Do rights endowed by the creator somehow not apply to everyone?

Those rights do not apply to alien combatants committing acts of war against the United States. Those people do have rights naturally but not the rights of U.S. citizens commititng crimes on U.S. soil.

Just to make sure I understand, one of the rights "endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state" is the "right to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers." Except these rights "do not apply to alien combatants committing acts of war against the United States." In that case, the state can take away rights endowed by the creator. Did you check with the creator about this? I don't think the creator would make such an exemption.

The "creator" endowed the right to life liberty and property. The American Constitution affords further rights derived fromt hese basic rights to citizens. So it has been held since 1787 and so it will continue to be held in a manner which makes perfect sense. Alien combatants do have certain human rights. But they do not have the right to a trial by jury etc.

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I mean every last word of it
Numerous people have been unfairly handed life sentences -- of heart skickness -- their loved ones were methodically executed while attending church --
while some smile and shrug their shoulders at this, to me it's a heinous crime of the most despicable sort that deserves the most exacting standards of justice -- death, no questions asked
I know that many are sticking up for this serial killer in the belief that he deserves rights, and may have been on drugs at the time so that he can't be held responsible for his mass murders --
would you feel the same way if something like this occured in your family???

[Edited on 6/23/2015 by Stephen]

Believing he is entitled to a fair trial and legal representation is hardly "sticking up for him." I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law. This seems to indicate it is so, at least for you.

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Makes ZERO sense. The state tries accused criminals and gets justice in the name of the people. One is innocent until proven guilty. Because I believe an accused murderer is entitled to a fair trial I am on the side of the bad guy? And you all wonder why I suspect that many don't really believe in our rule of law and rights?

quote:
For starters... with every prescription issued for SSRI anti-depressant drugs, gun confiscation, and forfeiture of search-and-seizure rights to allow weekly inspection of premises for weapons.

If there are to be recommendations to remedy the problem, please put some thought into them.

The 4th amendment guarantees freedom from government intrusion into our homes. Period. Warrants are required. As far as I know, illness is not probable cause for a warrant.

Approximately 37% of people over 65 are clinically depressed and 30% of them are treated with SSRIs. That is for patients outside nursing homes. In nursing facilities, that number is significantly higher.

Between 7-16% of new mothers suffer postpartum depression and are treated with SSRIs; that number rises to 40% for mothers who have already had one episode of PPD.

The military doesn't release the actual number of cases of veterans who suffer PTSD for which standard treatment is SSRIs.

What is suggested further stigmatizes patients with mental disorders that are just as biologically driven as physical disorders. Patients are more likely to hurt themselves than someone else.

And to be specific, no one has indicated that Roof was on ANY medication. He was arrested for possession of a substance used for heroin detox.

I'm trying to be polite, but this suggestion would put an egregious burden on police resources and target the most fragile among us.

OK, way I see it you just listed a lot of folks that should not have guns. The 4th amendment is moot when there is probable cause, and crazy people should not be armed. I put plenty of thought into it, and have noticed a striking parallel in these gonzo sprees: People are freaking out on SSRI's. Let me spell it out for you. I think people are responsible for their actions no matter how whacked out they are. So hang the bast*rds. Got a mad dog? Kill it. However, that said, the bigger implication here is that the wanton abuse of psychiatric drugs is largely to blame, and whoever is profiting by that is also to blame.

Taking a gun away from a mentally unstable person is not stigmatizing, I don't see it as any different than not allowing someone to drive an automobile under the influence of a perfectly legal prescription.

OK, way I see it you just listed a lot of folks that should not have guns. The 4th amendment is moot when there is probable cause, and crazy people should not be armed. I put plenty of thought into it, and have noticed a striking parallel in these gonzo sprees: People are freaking out on SSRI's. Let me spell it out for you. I think people are responsible for their actions no matter how whacked out they are. So hang the bast*rds. Got a mad dog? Kill it. However, that said, the bigger implication here is that the wanton abuse of psychiatric drugs is largely to blame, and whoever is profiting by that is also to blame.

Taking a gun away from a mentally unstable person is not stigmatizing, I don't see it as any different than not allowing someone to drive an automobile under the influence of a perfectly legal prescription.

One thing we agree on is that people are responsible for their actions.

Depression, for which most SSRIs are prescribed, is not "crazy" whatever that means to you. SSRIs are THERAPEUTIC for a usually short-term mental illness. Like when you get antibiotics for an infection. When patients take their meds as prescribed, SSRIs are beneficial. What can be harmful is when patients stop taking the SSRI without medical supervision, but that usually hurts the patient They may become suicidal. Not homicidal.

Also, SSRIs aren't taken in a vacuum. An irresponsible patient or just a garden variety addict may be taking SSRIs along with street drugs, alcohol, and other prescription drugs. That's a scary combination.

What you're suggesting is that a 60-year-old guy who is depressed because he has trouble transitioning into retirement or a 27-year-old new mom who has slightly more than "baby blues" should have their homes searched regularly because they're taking a certain type of prescription med.

The 4th amendment isn't moot; "crazy" isn't probable cause for a search of one's home.

Again, I haven't read any reports that Roof was on SSRIs. He was busy shopping for AR-15 accessories.

Chill and listen to some good music.

Of course it will be obvious to the doc who might be prone to violence. Someone having trouble at a nursing home is not the same as a troubled teen. I'm just pointing to a link I have noted in the more bizarro outbursts. Roof was all over the map, a powderkeg of bad chems, bad propaganda, bad news all around. So he wasn't on them, but more careful monitoring would help prevent a lot of this stuff. SSRI's are being handed out like M&M's by irresponsible hack psychiatrists who make up new "disorders" on a daily basis.

Just trying to look at causes, instead of symptoms, unlike our medical system. Hammering on guns is not the answer.

Responsible gun ownership includes knowing when it might not be a good thing to own a gun. If someone is incapable of figuring this out, it needs to be figured out for them.

(hey thx for the music link! Not a huge fan of choir music, but I could see how you would enjoy it )

[Edited on 6/26/2015 by BrerRabbit]

This discussion has taken place word for word many times in recent years -- 32 dead in W.Va college massacre, more dead in Denver movie theatre massacre -- going back to Columbine, Kip Kinkel etc....

...and will take place many more times in the future
as long as there are guns, massacres will occur -- the human track record, aka history, proves it

I still say, the people who commit these crimes forfeit their right to "due process" "right to a legal trial" .... Neo-Nazi skinheads, KKK types, types who kill in the name of racial supremacy -- isn't that what Hitler was all about?

furnishing these people with rights only makes it worse for the loved ones of the victims

This is perhaps the most radical statement I have ever seen expressed on this board and I hope you don't actually mean it. Rights are not "given" by the state. Rights exist and are endowed by the creator and cannot be taken away by the state. And one of the rights is to be presumed innocent and to be convicted by a jury of his peers.

I mean every last word of it
Numerous people have been unfairly handed life sentences -- of heart skickness -- their loved ones were methodically executed while attending church --
while some smile and shrug their shoulders at this, to me it's a heinous crime of the most despicable sort that deserves the most exacting standards of justice -- death, no questions asked
I know that many are sticking up for this serial killer in the belief that he deserves rights, and may have been on drugs at the time so that he can't be held responsible for his mass murders --
would you feel the same way if something like this occured in your family???

[Edited on 6/23/2015 by Stephen]

Believing he is entitled to a fair trial and legal representation is hardly "sticking up for him." I have always suspected that many (though not all) on the left actually have little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law. This seems to indicate it is so, at least for you.

Truly amazing -- "little respect for freedom, rights and the rule of law"
is it not true that nine innocent, loving people lie dead because of that very thing? Who do you feel are the good guys and bad guys here anyway?
I know you feel that this murdering SOB deserves all the respect of freedom, rights and the rule of law -- not me, and not ever --
With disrespect toward none

Makes ZERO sense. The state tries accused criminals and gets justice in the name of the people. One is innocent until proven guilty. Because I believe an accused murderer is entitled to a fair trial I am on the side of the bad guy? And you all wonder why I suspect that many don't really believe in our rule of law and rights?

Bro, what I'm trying to get across is that there IS no question of innocent/guilty in this case -- he's been fingered & positively identified as an individual who murdered nine people -- there is no 'innocent' in this case -- he killed nine people, & justice demands that he pay in kind for his horrific crime
it's just that after what he did, all the talk about what rights he has tries my patience huge
Peace

[Edited on 6/27/2015 by Stephen]

The punk is going to hell in a bucket. Don't sweat it. He is DONE.