Sounds like you and Perryboyton are also doing quite a bit of assuming too.
No, You've stated that in your opinion, the shooting was based on something racial. No facts, just your feeling that it is racially motivated because there have been so many others similar in nature. Therefore......
No harm, I just vehemently disagree with that generalization.
I believe it was definitely racial. The way I see it, he would not have been shot if it was a white guy. Just my opinion.
And I believe that you don't have enough information to say it was "definitely racial". It very well could be, sure does look that way, but until we get some information about the cop, it is unnecessarily throwing gas on an already bad situation. Who's to say that he wouldn't have shot a white guy? The cop is clearly trigger happy. One thing is for sure, the guy didn't deserve to die.
I agree on all counts. I don't think race had anything to do with this. Just a power drunk and trigger happy coward cop who would have done the same thing to anyone running away from him regardless of race or color not knowing he was being videoed.
I believe it was definitely racial. The way I see it, he would not have been shot if it was a white guy. Just my opinion.
Is it "racial" when a Black Police officer shoots a white person?
How about when a Hispanic officer shoots a black man?
[Edited on 4/9/2015 by BIGV]
I assume you're just raising hypothetical questions & don't have any metrics to quantify the answers or show any relative comparisons?
Fair enough BigV. I guess it's more comfortable to eliminate my scary position.
[Edited on 4/9/2015 by BoytonBrother]
I believe it was definitely racial. The way I see it, he would not have been shot if it was a white guy. Just my opinion.
Is it "racial" when a Black Police officer shoots a white person?
How about when a Hispanic officer shoots a black man?
[Edited on 4/9/2015 by BIGV]
I assume you're just raising hypothetical questions & don't have any metrics to quantify the answers or show any relative comparisons?
Correct. Since the "assumption" seems to be that if a White officer shoots a person of color it's a racial incident, can we assume the same when it goes the other way?...And because the media doesn't seem to report these scenarios, does mean they do not take place.
Gee, where would I get such a crazy idea? You got it Perry. I'm the racist.
What information other than skin color do you have to come to the opinion that this shooting was racially motivated?
It is not about information. It is about how the cop acted and whether you think he would have done the same thing had the victim been white or hispanic or asian. IMO this power drunk cop would have done the same thing to anyone running away from him regardless of race or color. Therefore I don't see this particular case as being racially motivated. No way to be absolutely sure unless you are inside that coward piece of sh_t's head. Of course I am sure the coward cop wouldn't have shot a single bullet had he known he was being videotaped.
If you can't understand how conversations naturally evolve, I don't know what to tell you. My position is the same....I don't believe he would've been shot if he was white. Sorry for not elaborating on the very first post.
To be honest BB, you just confused the cr@p out of me! Was your first post quoted above actually a 'see, racism doesn't exist' post? I assumed it was you saying WTF to the picture, and caption that cites 'stuff' that 'proves' racism doesn't exist. Then you turn around and make a statement that the shooting was definitely racist, in your opinion. Then say you are not racist because you can cite other 'stuff'? <<>>
No, I do believe race played a role in the shooting. I believe that if the victim was white, he wouldnt' have been shot. The photo I posted was to show the absurdity of Eric Bolling's quote, that racism doesn't exist.
No worries, just seemed kinda contradictory at the time I read. that is a pretty bigoted statement though!?
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flawed logic. I believe race played a role, but it's not the only factor. Nice try.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Flawed logic? Those are your words! They are in complete an total conflict with each other.
I'm not "trying" anything. I am responding directly to your literal responses. You are moving the goalposts around.
Your original statement:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe it was definitely racial. The way I see it, he would not have been shot if it was a white guy. Just my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Your revised statement:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe race played a role, but it's not the only factor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jesus man, cmon.
Dude, did I really upset you that much the other day when I called your post ignorant? Ever since that day, you've been picking apart every post of mine, trying your hardest to prove me wrong, or that I'm a racist.
I'll explain why your logic is flawed. My first post about beieving he wouldn't have been shot if he was white, is how the conversation started. And it is natural for conversations to evolve, and reveal more and more information as the conversation goes on. So just because I didn't fully explain every detail of my opinion in my very first post, does not invalidate future posts where I further explain my position.
Apparently the geographical region and attire play a role too (WTF??), I haven't even asked about that one yet.
Being in the South, and the victim wearing t-shirt and black pants. Point is, the South's history on race is obvious, and had he been wearing a suit, he probably wouldn't have been shot, IMO.
You are now no better than Muleboy!!! Go away you offend me!!!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Flawed logic. I believe race played a role, but it's not the only factor. Nice try.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Flawed logic? Those are your words! They are in complete an total conflict with each other.
I'm not "trying" anything. I am responding directly to your literal responses. You are moving the goalposts around.
Your original statement:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe it was definitely racial. The way I see it, he would not have been shot if it was a white guy. Just my opinion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Your revised statement:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I believe race played a role, but it's not the only factor.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Jesus man, cmon.
Dude, did I really upset you that much the other day when I called your post ignorant? Ever since that day, you've been picking apart every post of mine, trying your hardest to prove me wrong, or that I'm a racist.
I'll explain why your logic is flawed. My first post about beieving he wouldn't have been shot if he was white, is how the conversation started. And it is natural for conversations to evolve, and reveal more and more information as the conversation goes on. So just because I didn't fully explain every detail of my opinion in my very first post, does not invalidate future posts where I further explain my position.
Apparently the geographical region and attire play a role too (WTF??), I haven't even asked about that one yet.
Being in the South, and the victim wearing t-shirt and black pants. Point is, the South's history on race is obvious, and had he been wearing a suit, he probably wouldn't have been shot, IMO.
You are now no better than Muleboy!!! Go away you offend me!!!
I apologize, I shouldn't have reacted so! I am from the South and I do take offense to your characterizations...but that's my problem, not yours! Best to you and your's!!! :}
New evidence, the Officer's dashcam video. Watch this, does it stand to reason that if Mr. Scott had not run away, he might still be alive?...Don't get me wrong, the Officer in question still appears to have shot 8 times needlessly, but c'mon man. Who gets out of their car and runs away over a broken tail light?
someone who is afraid of the police because of what he knows from 50 yrs in SC. I think this is where the disconnect between PB and BB comes from. one is looking at the incident as just the incident and the other is looking at the culture and atmosphere and history. it is understandable and neither of you is completely wrong.
sounds good to me, just an observation.
To me, assuming this white cop is racist is just as bad as assuming the black perp is a criminal. It's all part of the bigger problem!
Exactly.
To me, assuming this white cop is racist is just as bad as assuming the black perp is a criminal. It's all part of the bigger problem!
Exactly.
My observation: I agree it is a stretch, based on current facts as I know them, to say that this cop fire his weapon only because the person was black, that is to say that he was consciously thinking something along the lines of, "I'm gonna shoot this guy because he is black." However, I do think it is a reasonable assumption based not only on the facts as we know them (and the videos that we have seen), but also the historical/social context that others have described, that institutional racism played a significant role here.
maybe this will help. this deals with the topic in terms of spending cuts but I think it could apply elsewhere. maybe not.
this was the search criteria I used.....a lot of stuff came up.
how to explain institutional racism at the micro level
[Edited on 4/10/2015 by LeglizHemp]
You must be basing your opinion on skin color alone. What's that called again? When you rush to judgement based on the color of one's skin?
What information other than skin color do you have to come to the opinion that this shooting was racially motivated?
So is it fair to say you have a prejudice against white cops?
FYI a prejudice based on skin color alone is called racism.
The assumption that it is based solely on past circumstances, Imho is just asinine. Each and every case has to be judged on its own merit and the facts that surround said case. In this one, there was video that shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that Mr. Scott was indeed murdered. Fact. Everything else is just speculation and that is just sad.
I was very careful to assume nothing.
But it is NEVER OK to assume that someone is guilty of something because of their skin color and because others of same skin color have been guilty in the past. To me, assuming this white cop is racist is just as bad as assuming the black perp is a criminal. It's all part of the bigger problem!
and then this from page 2:
I don't deny ongoing racial tensions in that community, they are the same tensions that feed the anti-cop sentiment in that community that led to false witness statements trying to get Darren Wilson charged with a crime he did not commit. Clear as day to me what is going on there. I'm sure it is exactly the same in other black communities elsewhere in the nation too.
For the record, I happen to agree with your post. I agree that some of the witnesses simply lied about what they saw for "revenge", and I agree that it probably happens all over the country.
The point of this post is to show that we're all a little prejudice on some level, and it is only natural to make assumptions based on past experiences.
It was more about this particular line:
I'm sure it is exactly the same in other black communities elsewhere in the nation too.
You seem to be basing your opinion on skin color alone. What's that called again? When you rush to judgement based on the color of one's skin?
Yes, I'm prejudiced against people that give false witness statements in an effort to ruin the life of a police officer who was just doing his job. Or people that give false witness statements in general. Liars, etc.
Guilty as charged.
BTW The false witness statements are fact by now. If you can provide other possible motive than cop-hating, please do.
The false witness statements you're talking about are from all the cops who swore on the police reports that they witnessed AND gave the victim CPR, right?
The video shows NONE of them did anything to try and save his life.
For clarity I would paste my definition of prejudice again, but you took it as condescending the first time.
FYI a prejudice based on skin color alone is called racism.
Gee, where would I get the idea that you were trying to be condescending?
Yes, I'm prejudiced against people that give false witness statements in an effort to ruin the life of a police officer who was just doing his job. Or people that give false witness statements in general. Liars, etc.
Guilty as charged.
BTW The false witness statements are fact by now. If you can provide other possible motive than cop-hating, please do.
The false witness statements you're talking about are from all the cops who swore on the police reports that they witnessed AND gave the victim CPR, right?
The video shows NONE of them did anything to try and save his life.
False reports I refer to were in Ferguson, the ones that led to nationwide protest of something that didn't happen.
This thread isn't about Ferguson.
Try to pay attention.
Check out the audio conversation with another cop and the chuckle about just shooting someone
Just thought the fire needed to be stoked
Much more information is needed to form any objective opinion.
1.) The interaction between the police officer and the suspect is unknown
2.) The video source is anonymous
3.) Why did the suspect run away from the police officer?
4.) The suspect tried to grab the police officers stun gun
5.) There was a warrant for the arrest of the suspect
6.) The suspect had a history of violence
7.) The local newspaper article does not state the high black crime rate in North Charleston
8.) The local newspaper article does note the racial problems in the community and quotes the NAACP, well known for their hatred of the police.
9.) The local newspaper article mentions the Ferguson incident but not the fact that Officer Wilson was found to have done nothing wrong.Anytime Al Sharpton’s National Action Network is involved everything is suspect.
I have now come to the conclusion that you are an idiot beyond repair. Anyone who would defend the cop after seeing that video needs serious mental testing.
Please show me ANYWHERE in that post that he defends the cop. Just anything, anywhere that defends the cop in his post.
Much more information is needed to form any objective opinion.
1.) The interaction between the police officer and the suspect is unknown
2.) The video source is anonymous
3.) Why did the suspect run away from the police officer?
4.) The suspect tried to grab the police officers stun gun
5.) There was a warrant for the arrest of the suspect
6.) The suspect had a history of violence
7.) The local newspaper article does not state the high black crime rate in North Charleston
8.) The local newspaper article does note the racial problems in the community and quotes the NAACP, well known for their hatred of the police.
9.) The local newspaper article mentions the Ferguson incident but not the fact that Officer Wilson was found to have done nothing wrong.Anytime Al Sharpton’s National Action Network is involved everything is suspect.
I have now come to the conclusion that you are an idiot beyond repair. Anyone who would defend the cop after seeing that video needs serious mental testing.
Please show me ANYWHERE in that post that he defends the cop. Just anything, anywhere that defends the cop in his post.
You are splitting hairs.
All those questions hit the "blame the victim" button, just the same as defending the cop.
Nice try though.
To quote Charles Blow from his op-ed in the NY Times today:
"There is no moral equivalency between running and killing, and anyone who argues this obdurate absurdity reveals a deficiency in their own humanity. Death is not the appropriate punishment for disobedience. Being entrusted with power does not shield imprudent use of power."
Much more information is needed to form any objective opinion.
1.) The interaction between the police officer and the suspect is unknown
Not true.
2.) The video source is anonymous
Again, not true. The person who videoed it came forward and has been identified. Not that this is relevant.
3.) Why did the suspect run away from the police officer?
Because there was a warrant for his arrest because of failure to pay child support. This was wrong on his part, but not serious enough to be killed. He posed no threat to the officer while running away.
4.) The suspect tried to grab the police officers stun gun
There is no evidence of that. The video clearly shows the officer placing an object next to the victim after the shooting.
5.) There was a warrant for the arrest of the suspect
For failure to pay child support.
6.) The suspect had a history of violence
The cop is the suspect. Walter Scott had been arrested for contempt of court and failure to pay child support. Both non-violent.
7.) The local newspaper article does not state the high black crime rate in North Charleston
8.) The local newspaper article does note the racial problems in the community and quotes the NAACP, well known for their hatred of the police.
9.) The local newspaper article mentions the Ferguson incident but not the fact that Officer Wilson was found to have done nothing wrong.
Irrelevant to this case.
The facts continue to elide keller and ron.
quote:
________________________________________
Much more information is needed to form any objective opinion.
1.) The interaction between the police officer and the suspect is unknown
________________________________________
Not true.
- True – at the time of my post, none of the interaction between the police officer and the suspect was known.
quote:
________________________________________
2.) The video source is anonymous
________________________________________
Again, not true. The person who videoed it came forward and has been identified. Not that this is relevant.
- Wrong. At the time of my post, all reports said the video was from an anonymous source
quote:
________________________________________
3.) Why did the suspect run away from the police officer?
________________________________________
Because there was a warrant for his arrest because of failure to pay child support. This was wrong on his part, but not serious enough to be killed. He posed no threat to the officer while running away.
- Wrong. See #1
quote:
________________________________________
4.) The suspect tried to grab the police officers stun gun
________________________________________
There is no evidence of that. The video clearly shows the officer placing an object next to the victim after the shooting.
- What happened after the shooting is irrelevant.
quote:
________________________________________
5.) There was a warrant for the arrest of the suspect
________________________________________
For failure to pay child support.
- Irrelevant. A warrant for his arrest was lawful regardless of the charge.
quote:
________________________________________
6.) The suspect had a history of violence
________________________________________
The cop is the suspect. Walter Scott had been arrested for contempt of court and failure to pay child support. Both non-violent.
- He had been convicted of assault.
quote:
________________________________________
7.) The local newspaper article does not state the high black crime rate in North Charleston
8.) The local newspaper article does note the racial problems in the community and quotes the NAACP, well known for their hatred of the police.
9.) The local newspaper article mentions the Ferguson incident but not the fact that Officer Wilson was found to have done nothing wrong.
________________________________________
Irrelevant to this case.
Perfectly relevant.
The newspaper article pushed the false narrative that this was another white police officer killing a black man when the facts of the case were largely unknown.
That is the same dishonest and agenda based reporting that happened in the Martin/Zimmerman and Brown/Wilson cases which were proven to not be racial incidents.
You, the hate groups, media and liberals in general constantly assume all police killings of blacks is racially motivated when factually they are not.
In this case, there is no proof, much less evidence that it was a matter of race.
