What's stupid is all the speculation & opinions.
Chill. I was asked by another poster to speculate. Was that stupid, too?
Thorough, accurate and effective document retention skills can cut two ways. It can a) provide backup and exonerate an innocent person of wrongdoing, or, b) incriminate a person guilty of wrongdoing.
Which would be more likely to destroy records?
Hint: There's a reason why protocol dictates that government documents are to be retained.
[Edited on 4/2/2015 by alloak41]
Check out these "right wingers" discussing the fake email scandal on MSNBC...
Alloak let it go man it is a dead horse. It is over and will be forgotten by Joe Public before the next GOP witch hunt starts.
It is so unimportant the GOP is barely raising a stink over it.
I know you are obsessed but this is not even a mosquito bite for her campaign.
The GOP have bigger things to worry about like who has a prayer to beat her in 2016.
You have to defend her, I understand that. You have no other choice.
It's time to move past the Clintons.
You have to attack her, I understand that. You have no other choice.
Hint: There's a reason why protocol dictates that government documents are to be retained.
Are gmails considered government documents? I really don't know.
Yes, she was wrong for using gmail in the first place. Yes, she was wrong for deleting them. Does it make her "slimy"? Does it destroy her credibiltiy and her morals? Stop. Again, this is not unique to Hillary Clinton. It doesn't make it right, but you are not differentiating her from anyone else.
[Edited on 4/2/2015 by BoytonBrother]
You have to attack her, I understand that. You have no other choice.
This was not dreamed up or created by Republicans out to get Hillary Clinton. She brought this on herself by acting in typical Clinton fashion - One set of rules for the Clintons, different set for everyone else. Her comments on the case are riddled with lies and contradictions.
Why? Why lie when the truth would work just as well? She could have easily put this thing to rest if she has been falsely accused of wrongdoing. If you are innocent, then stop lying. Providing evidence would have helped to back up her innocence, but it's been destroyed. She didn't want anybody to see her Yoga emails.
How much money did she accept for her foundation, and from which foreign countries while she served as SOS? No conflict of interest there! Perhaps the emails would have shed some light on this but the evidence is gone.
It's time to move past the Clintons. We're bound to be able to do better than Hillary Clinton.
She brought this on herself by acting in typical Clinton fashion - One set of rules for the Clintons, different set for everyone else.
What do you mean by this? Aside from the email scandal, when has either she or Bill recieved preferential treatment?
She brought this on herself by acting in typical Clinton fashion - One set of rules for the Clintons, different set for everyone else.
What do you mean by this?
Normally, furnishings and decorative items donated to the White House are considered public property and are left alone when a President departs.
Not the Clintons. They started shipping items to their home in NY one year prior to vacating the WH. When some questions arose, they lied about when the gifts were received, attempting to claim they were personal gifts. FAIL.
That's the Clintons in a nutshell.
Still obsessing over the same old thing from your thread of well over 7 years ago? You are and have been obsessed with Hillary all these years. Pretty funny actually.
https://allmanbrothersband.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=69015#pid
She brought this on herself by acting in typical Clinton fashion - One set of rules for the Clintons, different set for everyone else.
What do you mean by this? Aside from the email scandal, when has either she or Bill recieved preferential treatment?
Regarding her email, my understanding is that she followed the rules that were in place at the time.
Normally, furnishings and decorative items donated to the White House are considered public property and are left alone when a President departs.
Not the Clintons. They started shipping items to their home in NY one year prior to vacating the WH. When some questions arose, they lied about when the gifts were received, attempting to claim they were personal gifts. FAIL.
That's the Clintons in a nutshell.
And here I am thinking that the legacy of the Clinton Presidency is turning an overwhelming National debt into a surplus. Actually advancing the quality of American lives. Silly me.
quote:
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"sliminess"? If you are expecting a politician to come along one day who doesn't engage in "slimy" behavior, I have a few products I'd like to sell you.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------Your cynicsm is remarkable. But what's weird about it is that instead of being down on everybody you seem to have accepted it and don't care.
So the better option is to be down on everybody all the time? Sorry, but that sounds exhausting and unpleasant. I'm just accepting the realities of our world. More importantly, what sense does it make to criticize someone for something the everyone else does? Not saying that it makes it right, but it doesn't differentiate the target from being worse than anyone else. It only makes sense to criticize someone for something unique. Basing your opposition over things like, "He/she lied", "He/she is a hypocrite", "he/she is arrogant", is meaningless. You can say those things about everyone.
It's your opinion that "everyone does this". I strongly disagree and the answer is to demand higher standards. We get the government we deserve. I think we deserve better than this.
Yes, if it was Dick Cheney destroying government documents it would be nothing, right? Doubt it.
Remember that fire in Cheney's office? The one that started in a closet and burned up his files? That murderous reptile was covering up his reprehensible dealings. He had a fire that just burned up his documents. Where was the outrage?
[Edited on 4/2/2015 by BillyBlastoff]
I don't remember that, but if he was found to have anything to do with it he
should go to jail. What the statute of limitations on arson?[Edited on 4/2/2015 by alloak41]
I also have no memory of this.
So the better option is to be down on everybody all the time? Sorry, but that sounds exhausting and unpleasant. I'm just accepting the realities of our world. More importantly, what sense does it make to criticize someone for something the everyone else does? Not saying that it makes it right, but it doesn't differentiate the target from being worse than anyone else. It only makes sense to criticize someone for something unique. Basing your opposition over things like, "He/she lied", "He/she is a hypocrite", "he/she is arrogant", is meaningless. You can say those things about everyone.
It's your opinion that "everyone does this". I strongly disagree and the answer is to demand higher standards. We get the government we deserve. I think we deserve better than this.
I agree with everything you said. But they have no choice but to be all in and defending anything. What's the alternative? Nobody?
Normally, furnishings and decorative items donated to the White House are considered public property and are left alone when a President departs.
Not the Clintons. They started shipping items to their home in NY one year prior to vacating the WH. When some questions arose, they lied about when the gifts were received, attempting to claim they were personal gifts. FAIL.
That's the Clintons in a nutshell.
And here I am thinking that the legacy of the Clinton Presidency is turning an overwhelming National debt into a surplus. Actually advancing the quality of American lives. Silly me.
Come come...you're forgetting the small stuff that matters more in petty mindsets.
Normally, furnishings and decorative items donated to the White House are considered public property and are left alone when a President departs.
Not the Clintons. They started shipping items to their home in NY one year prior to vacating the WH. When some questions arose, they lied about when the gifts were received, attempting to claim they were personal gifts. FAIL.
That's the Clintons in a nutshell.
And here I am thinking that the legacy of the Clinton Presidency is turning an overwhelming National debt into a surplus. Actually advancing the quality of American lives. Silly me.
Come come...you're forgetting the small stuff that matters more in petty mindsets.
He asked for an example and I furnished one. Does that goalpost come equipped with wheels?
quote:
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So the better option is to be down on everybody all the time? Sorry, but that sounds exhausting and unpleasant. I'm just accepting the realities of our world. More importantly, what sense does it make to criticize someone for something the everyone else does? Not saying that it makes it right, but it doesn't differentiate the target from being worse than anyone else. It only makes sense to criticize someone for something unique. Basing your opposition over things like, "He/she lied", "He/she is a hypocrite", "he/she is arrogant", is meaningless. You can say those things about everyone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------It's your opinion that "everyone does this". I strongly disagree and the answer is to demand higher standards. We get the government we deserve. I think we deserve better than this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------I agree with everything you said. But they have no choice but to be all in and defending anything. What's the alternative? Nobody?
I'll admit that I'm helping keep this thread alive, but I still can't wrap my head around a few things.
First of all, my vote would go to Chris Christie. But no, the Republicans don't like him because he said something nice about Obama, so that's out the window I guess.
As for Hillary, I made a list of my criticisms for Obama just a few days ago, and I'll do the same for Hillary. I will concede that the email scandal is the first on my list, but to allow it to be enough evidence to judge her entire character and ability to do the job is just foolish, and you both know it.
It's ok to not like her. Being from PA, I despise Rick Santorum with a passion, and there's nothing anyone can do or say to change my mind. I assume you feel the same way about Obama and Hillary, and that is fine.
Any reasonable person can conclude that this email "scandal" is simply not significant enough to provide enough information to accurately judge her ability to do the job.
[Edited on 4/2/2015 by BoytonBrother]
Normally, furnishings and decorative items donated to the White House are considered public property and are left alone when a President departs.
Not the Clintons. They started shipping items to their home in NY one year prior to vacating the WH. When some questions arose, they lied about when the gifts were received, attempting to claim they were personal gifts. FAIL.
That's the Clintons in a nutshell.
And here I am thinking that the legacy of the Clinton Presidency is turning an overwhelming National debt into a surplus. Actually advancing the quality of American lives. Silly me.
Come come...you're forgetting the small stuff that matters more in petty mindsets.
He asked for an example and I furnished one. Does that goalpost come equipped with wheels?
I don't remember this, but would ask whether this unusual or if the Clintons are being singled out because they are the Clintons? In other words, who is actually moving the goalposts on this one?
Lots of people can "do the job." But can they deliver an exceptional performance at the job, project the right image, and start restoring some trust and integrity in the system? The government is in dire need of repair. That's where we need to set our sights, and settling for Hillary Clinton is not the answer. Too deceptive, secretive, and truth-challenged.
One Cheney fire link, there are plenty of others.
http://gregmitchellwriter.blogspot.com/2007/12/fire-in-cheneys-office-what-was-he.html
There were reports that files were destroyed.
If that had been Hillary's office - imagine the outrage.
I smell hypocrisy.
I am weary of pointing out this stuff and defending a candidate I do not and will not support.
Lots of people can "do the job." But can they deliver an exceptional performance at the job, project the right image, and start restoring some trust and integrity in the system? The government is in dire need of repair. That's where we need to set our sights, and settling for Hillary Clinton is not the answer. Too deceptive, secretive, and truth-challenged.
That's very generous of you alloak. In a patriotic way.
Which of those Democrats who can "do the job" would you support?
Lots of people can "do the job." But can they deliver an exceptional performance at the job, project the right image, and start restoring some trust and integrity in the system? The government is in dire need of repair.
That requires a transcendent leader...is that even possible anymore? Bring everyone together, work on common goals, all that? The left and right tribes are further apart than ever. Optimism is a good thing, but...
He asked for an example and I furnished one. Does that goalpost come equipped with wheels?
I don't remember this, but would ask whether this unusual or if the Clintons are being singled out because they are the Clintons? In other words, who is actually moving the goalposts on this one?
Right.....Back to the "everybody does it" alibi, of course. That fixes everything.
I haven't heard of anybody else in my lifetime doing it, but it could have happened back before electricity.
I was asked to furnish an example of something and I did. Then he responds with an accomplishment of Clinton. I wasn't asked to furnish accomplishments, so he moved the goalpost.
Lots of people can "do the job." But can they deliver an exceptional performance at the job, project the right image, and start restoring some trust and integrity in the system? The government is in dire need of repair. That's where we need to set our sights, and settling for Hillary Clinton is not the answer. Too deceptive, secretive, and truth-challenged.
That's very generous of you alloak. In a patriotic way.
Which of those Democrats who can "do the job" would you support?
I'd support a guy like Evan Bayh. Young, dynamic, well-spoken, reasonable. I think he had the x-factor necessary. Sadly, he has dropped out of politics. That's one, I'll think on it some more.
edit: Obviously someone like Bill Clinton, who I liked right off the bat. He was likeable, intelligent, and projected a good image. Being a Southerner didn't hurt. Even though I'm giving Hil a hard time right now, I'll never regret voting for him. Hell, HE could have done a lot better than Hillary.
[Edited on 4/2/2015 by alloak41]
Here's the furniture story... Pretty reprehensible behavior in my opinion. But they did have two newly purchased mansions to decorate.
I also remember all the criticism of the expense of Bill Clinton's post Presidential office. At the time I felt it was less a waste of tax payer money than the one rented for Reagan even after he had become an alzheimer's victim and had no reason for an office.
Clintons Return White House Furniture
W A S H I N G T O N, Feb. 8
Former President Clinton and his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, have sent $28,000 worth of household goods back to Washington after questions arose over whether the items were intended as personal gifts or donations to the White House.“We have been informed that it is being shipped back, and the National Park Service is ready to receive it, take possession of it and take custody of it,” Jim McDaniel, the National Park Service’s liaison to the White House, said Wednesday.
“The property is being returned to government custody until such time that the issues can be resolved. It may well turn out that that property is rightly the personal property of the Clintons.”
Giving Back
After they were criticized for taking $190,000 worth of china, flatware, rugs, televisions, sofas and other gifts with them when they left, the Clintons announced last week that they would pay for $86,000 worth of gifts, or nearly half the amount.
Their latest decision to send back $28,000 in gifts brings to $114,000 the value of items the Clintons have either decided to pay for or return.
McDaniel discussed the matter Wednesday with Betty Monkman, the White House curator, and Gary Walters, the chief usher, or executive manager of the White House.
They were reviewing the gifts the Clintons chose to keep after $28,000 worth of items were found on a list of donations the Park Service received for the 1993 White House redecoration project. The Washington Post this week quoted three people who said that they assumed the furnishings they donated for the project would stay in the White House.
“As a result of questions about the status of certain property donated to the White House during the Clinton administration, the National Park Service will accept the return of the property in question and act as a custodian of such property,” according to a statement released by the Park Service, which administers the White House as a unit of the national park system.
A person familiar with the Clintons’ move out of the White House, who spoke on condition of anonymity, would say only: “They’ve been returned.”
Furniture Movers
While the Clintons’ decision to return these gifts was a way to get out from under this and other criticism surrounding their departure from the White House, the couple provided scant details about the shipment.
Mrs. Clinton’s office referred all questions about the gift return to the former president’s transition office. Transition office workers said the Clintons would make no statement. They referred all questions to the Park Service, which wasn’t exactly sure which gifts were being returned or where they had been kept.
In a statement released Monday, Clinton’s transition office said every item they accepted was identified by the White House gift office as a present to them. They said none of the gifts taken was on a curator’s list of official White House property.
“Gifts did not leave the White House without the approval of the White House usher’s and curator’s offices,” the statement said. “Of course, if the White House now determines that a cataloging error occurred, ... any item in question will be returned.”
Instead of waiting for the issue to be resolved, the Clintons returned the items.
The gifts in question were: A kitchen table and four chairs valued at $3,650 from Lee Ficks of Cincinnati, Ohio; a $1,000 needlepoint rug from David Martinous of Little Rock, Ark.; two sofas, an easy chair and an ottoman worth $19,900 from Steve Mittman of New York; lamps valued at $1,170 from Stuart Shiller of Hialeah, Fla.; and a $2,843 sofa from Brad Noe, a businessman from California.
The gifts were just one of several flaps that followed the Clintons out of the White House:
Lawmakers are questioning Clinton’s desire to rent expensive office space in New York City at government expense. Because of the contention, the former president’s foundation has offered to pay at least $300,000 of an estimated $790,000 annual rent for the office Clinton favors.
Mrs. Clinton, the new senator from New York, has faced questions about the propriety of accepting the gifts in the period between her election and her swearing-in. Senate rules would have limited what she could accept had she been a senator.
Members of both parties also have criticized Clinton for granting scores of eleventh-hour clemency requests, including the pardon of Marc Rich, a fugitive in Switzerland from 51 counts in the United States of tax evasion and fraud.
He asked for an example and I furnished one. Does that goalpost come equipped with wheels?
I don't remember this, but would ask whether this unusual or if the Clintons are being singled out because they are the Clintons? In other words, who is actually moving the goalposts on this one?
Right.....Back to the "everybody does it" alibi, of course. That fixes everything.
I haven't heard of anybody else in my lifetime doing it, but it could have happened back before electricity.
I was asked to furnish an example of something and I did. Then he responds with an accomplishment of Clinton. I wasn't asked to furnish accomplishments, so he moved the goalpost.
Not at all. I am just asking questions because I'm not familiar/don't remember this at all, and I've been around here long enough there is a tendency for some to move the goalposts to suit whatever point of view they are trying to support.
You have to defend her, I understand that. You have no other choice.
It's time to move past the Clintons.
Hillary does not need me to defend her as she is leading in all the polls so evidently the GOP does not have anybody better to offer at this time. Maybe someone will appear on the radar in the next year but so far none of the GOP candidates seems to have much appeal.
There has been no proof that she committed a crime here. If it was that serious don't you think the GOP would be more passionate in their attack against her? Even they realize this is non issue and time to move on and look for something tangible.
This is old news Alloak, nothing to see here and time to move on.
You have to defend her, I understand that. You have no other choice.
It's time to move past the Clintons.
Hillary does not need me to defend her as she is leading in all the polls so evidently the GOP does not have anybody better to offer at this time. Maybe someone will appear on the radar in the next year but so far none of the GOP candidates seems to have much appeal.
There has been no proof that she committed a crime here. If it was that serious don't you think the GOP would be more passionate in their attack against her? Even they realize this is non issue and time to move on and look for something tangible.
This is old news Alloak, nothing to see here and time to move on.
1. It would be hard not to be leading in the polls when you have no challenger.
2. Is that the measuring stick? Whether she could be brought to trial an convicted of a crime? Something tells me that wouldn't even be enough. No. It's that there is a clear attempt being made to avoid accountability. What is it with Liberals and their email accounts? First it was Lerner at the IRS, hard drives frying all over the place and "losing" files and documents, now this. I just feel that we deserve better and I don't think I'm alone. The government is a cesspool.
3. I've already got people here telling me not to talk about it any more. One more isn't going to make a difference.
