If the original idea was to bring that plight into the public eye, then why are not Baseball and Basketball players following suit?
It was something that Kaepernick decided to do. Because Kap wanted to do it, all black athletes should follow him? Why? If they don't follow him like sheep, then they don't care about it the issue? If that's how you feel, then you should follow protests of other people of your race, because if you don't, then you don't care about it.
Surely there are Black players in both sports who take this issue very seriously, very possibly because it has happened to them or someone they know personally.
Agreed. And since they aren't doing what Kap decided to do, then it means something to you I guess. Interesting.
Either it is an issue affecting the Black community or it is not.
Which do you believe?
If you wear the uniform of an NBA franchise, or you represent a MBL team and you are Black, this topic hits you.
With all due respect, you don't get to speak for them. It might, it might not. Some people may just want to focus on their family and avoid the drama that is the news.
Either way, you have a huge national audience and if this issue means anything to you and you are Black....then....
Then what? Stop beating around the bush.
But there sure are in Basketball, approx 8% more. Is the NBA wrong for having a rule in place?...and then enforcing it?
Or maybe it's just an NFL thing
Who are you angry with? You sound all over the place? Are you mad at the NBA players for not protesting, that they don't care about the cause? Or are you angry with the people who are angry at the NFL? Or are you angry with the NFL players? I hear a lot of code and insinuation, but no statements.
Just to prove that I have an open mind on this subject, here's an excellent and very informative article from a "professor of labor and industry at Harvard Law." Legally he sides with the players here.
Are you mad at the NBA players for not protesting, that they don't care about the cause?
Mad? Please. I find it odd that this cause has boundaries. Evidently, No Black men in the NBA care enough to be involved. Just Blacks in the NFL are harassed by the Police.
As originally stated when I started this post, my position in that an NFL team is the owner's entity and if they choose not to have political protests at their games they have every right to enforce that.
I agree Rob. The NBA has a rule that it chooses to enforce. Perhaps this is the reason no one in the NBA is participating; there is the very real possibility of losing quite a bit of money. Do the NBA players see absolutely no value in the "Black Lives matter" movement?...Look at the stage and the size of the audience available with the Cavs & Warriors next up. Is this not one of the biggest arguments put forth in defense of Kaepernick's actions?...Look at all of the publicity and attention to the cause with so many people watching.
I find it odd that this cause has boundaries. Evidently, No Black men in the NBA care enough to be involved.
What is your point? Are you criticizing them or applauding them for not reacting the same as Kaepernick?
Just Blacks in the NFL are harassed by the Police.
Why do you believe this?
The NBA has a rule that it chooses to enforce. Perhaps this is the reason no one in the NBA is participating. there is the very real possibility of losing quite a bit of money. ;
It’s probably more than one reason and not quite that simplistic.
Do the NBA players see absolutely no value in the "Black Lives matter" movement?...Look at the stage and the size of the audience available with the Cavs & Warriors next up. Is this not one of the biggest arguments put forth in defense of Kaepernick's actions?...Look at all of the publicity and attention to the cause with so many people watching.
Interesting conjecture. Publicity may not be what they need at this point. maybe they feel that Kaepernick completed a huge first step, and they are planning how to take the next one. So many possibilities and this story is just beginning.
From ESPN, if Kaepernick kneeled in protest over the mistreatment of veterans upon returning home from war, would those same opponents see “taking a knee” as disrespectful to the flag? Probably not. But because it’s about equal rights for black people, all of a sudden it’s disrespectful to the flag. Anyone who claimed this should explain.
Are you mad at the NBA players for not protesting, that they don't care about the cause?
Mad? Please. I find it odd that this cause has boundaries.
As I mentioned, the absence of protesting in one specific way doesn't prove that NBA plaeyers don't care about the issue. Black people aren't a hive mind. Just ask these guys:
Evidently, No Black men in the NBA care enough to be involved. Just Blacks in the NFL are harassed by the Police.
Nope. Just ask the Milwaukee Bucks' Sterling Brown.
Police apologize, release video of arrest, tasing of Bucks' Sterling Brown : http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/23586406/video-shows-arrest-tasing-sterling-brown-milwaukee-bucks
[Edited on 5/29/2018 by porkchopbob]
From ESPN, if Kaepernick kneeled in protest over the mistreatment of veterans upon returning home from war, would those same opponents see “taking a knee” as disrespectful to the flag? Probably not. But because it’s about equal rights for black people, all of a sudden it’s disrespectful to the flag. Anyone who claimed this should explain.
Some would argue that reverence (standing, not kneeling, with caps or helmets off) during the anthem is a sign of respect and acknowledgement of our veterans and all the hardships that they have endured.
[Edited on 5/29/2018 by robslob]
Some would argue that kneeling during the anthem is reverence. Shouldn’t you be tolerant of that view?
Some would argue that kneeling during the anthem is reverence. Shouldn’t you be tolerant of that view?
Tolerant?...As in being able to accept ideas that I don't agree with?...Sure, but I still disagree, I just won't get angry and stoop to name calling.
Some would argue that kneeling during the anthem is reverence. Shouldn’t you be tolerant of that view?
I'm not sure why you'd attempt to confuse the issue further, because that's not their intent any more than it is to protest against troops.
For the record I have always stood when the anthem is played and I'm at a sporting event....I've also noticed many who don't...I have seen people not take their hats off and this was all long before any if these issues came to light.
I think sitting is disrespectful but again I never say anything to someone who doesn't stand. But again the idea that kneeling is disrespectful is comical and ludicrous. I won't list all the things we do in life to show respect when we kneel. I let you all think about that for awhile...But in terms of body language it a submissive act...as when being knighted by the queen or king or praying to god...good enough to pray to god not good enough for a song...hum....
My issue is when anyone thinks they can demand an American to stand for a song or a flag or anything...if you like it or not that isn't freedom...to be forced to stand is authoritarianism. I'm asking are we so far removed from what we fought for in WWI and WWII that we're ready to become a dictatorship and give up 240+ years of democracy over Donald Trump the most useless man ever born?? and his useless words and lack of true American values? over a song?
Tolerant?...As in being able to accept ideas that I don't agree with?...Sure, but I still disagree,
I just won't get angry and stoop to name calling.
Accusing players of disrespecting the flag without hearing them explain themselves doesn’t sound any better.
From ESPN, if Kaepernick kneeled in protest over the mistreatment of veterans upon returning home from war, would those same opponents see “taking a knee” as disrespectful to the flag? Probably not. But because it’s about equal rights for black people, all of a sudden it’s disrespectful to the flag. Anyone who claimed this should explain.
Some would argue that reverence (standing, not kneeling, with caps or helmets off) during the anthem is a sign of respect and acknowledgement of our veterans and all the hardships that they have endured.
In what other context is taking a knee of sign of disrespect?
...when anyone thinks they can demand an American to stand for a song or a flag or anything...if you like it or not that isn't freedom...to be forced to stand is authoritarianism. I'm asking are we so far removed from what we fought for in WWI and WWII that we're ready to become a dictatorship and give up 240+ years of democracy over Donald Trump the most useless man ever born?? and his useless words and lack of true American values? over a song?
"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act."
"Those who begin coercive elimination of dissent soon find themselves exterminating dissenters. Compulsory unification of opinion achieves only the unanimity of the graveyard."
- Robert Houghwout Jackson (February 13, 1892 – October 9, 1954) was an American attorney and judge who served as an Associate Justice of the United States Supreme Court. He had previously served as United States Solicitor General, and United States Attorney General, and is the only person to have held all three of those offices. Jackson was also the Chief United States Prosecutor at the Nuremberg Trials of Nazi war criminals following World War Il.
Tolerant?...As in being able to accept ideas that I don't agree with?...Sure, but I still disagree,
I just won't get angry and stoop to name calling.
Accusing players of disrespecting the flag without hearing them explain themselves doesn’t sound any better.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it.
I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it
I don’t buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i don’t buy that you see it as disrespectful. I think it’s more about the person doing it for you. If an athlete that you admire began kneeling in protest of sanctuary cities, i have a hard time believing you’d see it as disrespect to the flag. I’ll even go so far as to say you’d root it on as patriotic.
I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it
I don’t buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i don’t buy that you see it as disrespectful. I think it’s more about the person doing it for you. If an athlete that you admire began kneeling in protest of sanctuary cities, i have a hard time believing you’d see it as disrespect to the flag. I’ll even go so far as to say you’d root it on as patriotic.
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".
I don’t buy that you do appreciate the cause, and i don’t buy that you see it as disrespectful.
Believe what you will, I believe I've stated my opinion clearly.
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".
I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".
I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?
No, yours. Although I doubt that there are many black athletes you admire.
You left out a word. I believe you meant "If a white athlete you admire".
I'm guessing this attempt at clarification is for your benefit?
No, yours. Although I doubt that there are many black athletes you admire.
I don't "admire" athletes, although, there are quite a few whom I recognize as having outrageous athletic skill sets and enjoy(ed) watching play their respective sports. Here are a few: Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Nance from the NBA. Mike Trout, Andre Dawson & Pete Rose from Baseball...Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson & Drew Brees from the NFL. I have zero idea where any of these men stand politically. So please elaborate and tell me how "white" was important for you to include.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion.
I understand and appreciate the cause, however I still see it as disrespecting the Flag and those who died defending it.
If you know what their intended message is, then why are you wasting the energy reinterpreting it for them? The flag doesn't just represent the military. For instance...
Do you think this building is
a) Italian Army Recruiter
b) Roman VFW
c) Pizzeria
The flag doesn't just represent the military.
For a lot of people in this Country whose loved ones have served under that standard, it does. Most connect the Flag to the "Star Spangled banner" And who are you to tell them it does not?
Look at the circumstances under which the Anthem was written.
But, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
For a lot of people in this Country whose loved ones have served under that standard, it does. Most connect the Flag to the "Star Spangled banner" And who are you to tell them it does not?
Everyone is entitled to interpret the flag differently. But you're saying that because some perceive it to represent the armed forces (even though they all have their own flags), everyone should refrain from offending them? You realize you have just given a textbook example of politically correctness? Convenient.
Everyone is entitled to interpret the flag differently. But you're saying that because some perceive it to represent the armed forces (even though they all have their own flags), everyone should refrain from offending them?
Absolutely not. "Refrain from offending them"?....Please, there will always be those offended by something, but that does not make their voice any less pertinent. Me?...I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that in itself does not take away my right to disagree.
Simple disagreement is OK, how you choose to communicate that is up to you.
And who are you to tell them it does not?
And if other people interpret the flag to be a symbol of all of us citizens (13 stripes for colonies, 50 stars for states) then I am happy to be the one to tell them it doesn't just represent the military and they shouldn't be so narrow minded to see things as only they so choose to.
We all have relatives who served, that doesn't entitle one to be obtuse.
I am happy to be the one to tell them it doesn't just represent the military
That is nothing more than your opinion and you are welcome to your own little slice of reality.
Absolutely not. "Refrain from offending them"?....Please, there will always be those offended by something, but that does not make their voice any less pertinent. Me?...I believe everyone is entitled to their opinion, but that in itself does not take away my right to disagree.
Simple disagreement is OK, how you choose to communicate that is up to you.
Cool. Disagreement is fine, as long as people understand the issue they disagree with.
