Since the OKC bombing, an effort was made to regulate and more easily track the purchase of large quantities of fertilizer. Also, companies have attempted to make the fertilizer less explosive. Regulation seems to have made a difference; or perhaps semi-automatic weapons are just much more easier to acquire.
I imagine in the Midwest and big farming states that a truckload of fertilizer is only a drop in the bucket, likely not to raise flags. And, if I am tight with farmer John and he has a stockpile of fertilizer for his several hundred acre farm, who's to say that he wouldn't sell me a truck load for some cash under the table for my "flower bed". If you want it bad enough you can get it, there is always a way, legal or not.
Republican stances on issues.
A person has a right to own one or more weapons that can be used to commit mass murder.
It is a privilege, and not a right, to get medical treatment after being shot by a mass murderer with a gun.
Since the OKC bombing, an effort was made to regulate and more easily track the purchase of large quantities of fertilizer. Also, companies have attempted to make the fertilizer less explosive. Regulation seems to have made a difference; or perhaps semi-automatic weapons are just much more easier to acquire.
I imagine in the Midwest and big farming states that a truckload of fertilizer is only a drop in the bucket, likely not to raise flags. And, if I am tight with farmer John and he has a stockpile of fertilizer for his several hundred acre farm, who's to say that he wouldn't sell me a truck load for some cash under the table for my "flower bed". If you want it bad enough you can get it, there is always a way, legal or not.
That's a wonderful hypothetical that hasn't happened because most farmers know how severity. Care to address events that have happened?
That's a wonderful hypothetical that hasn't happened because most farmers know how severity. Care to address events that have happened?
Just saying it is possible, I imagine I could roll through Nebraska or Kansas and find someone willing to sell me a truck bed full of fertilizer without an issue.
Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point im trying to make.
Disclaimer: For what its worth, you all are the last group of people I would want to argue politics with, ABB fam, sorry that ALL of our views don't align. And I dig Porkchop's videos too.
[Edited on 10/5/2017 by anthonyspare]
Republican stances on issues.
A person has a right to own one or more weapons that can be used to commit mass murder.
It is a privilege, and not a right, to get medical treatment after being shot by a mass murderer with a gun.
If the issue is mental illness, then why seek to limit access to mental health care?
If laws limiting access to fire arms, even the deadliest kinds, is unconstitutional and thus unacceptable, then so should laws/order that are broadly discriminatory in nature, such as travel bans, because they are unconstitutional.
There is no consistency or logic. Just lots of nonsense about cigarettes and meds.
That's a wonderful hypothetical that hasn't happened because most farmers know how severity. Care to address events that have happened?
Just saying it is possible, I imagine I could roll through Nebraska or Kansas and find someone willing to sell me a truck bed full of fertilizer without an issue.
Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point im trying to make.
If a chicken had lips, it could whistle.
You have a wonderful imagination and apparently a low opinion of the peoples of the Plain states to follow regulation of controlled, potentially deadly, substances that they use to feed their families with.
Just saying it is possible, I imagine I could roll through Nebraska or Kansas and find someone willing to sell me a truck bed full of fertilizer without an issue.
Amen brother. If I wanted to commit mass murder, I'd definitely research how to make a bomb, and take my chances that I can execute the science behind it, rather than use an AR-15.
Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point im trying to make.
Exactly my point! It's not hard at all to build those bombs. Any idiot can do it. It's a lot easier than spraying an AR-15, let me tell you. And just because only 3 people died in Boston, it doesn't affect my point one bit! Dumb liberals.
Requiring any type of psychological exam for gun purchases is moronic. Just because our police rely on them to protect and serve is completely irrelevant.
That's a wonderful hypothetical that hasn't happened because most farmers know how severity. Care to address events that have happened?
Just saying it is possible, I imagine I could roll through Nebraska or Kansas and find someone willing to sell me a truck bed full of fertilizer without an issue.
Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point im trying to make.
If a chicken had lips, it could whistle.
You have a wonderful imagination and apparently a low opinion of the peoples of the Plain states to follow regulation of controlled, potentially deadly, substances that they use to feed their families with.
Sorry if I offended anyone from Kansas or Nebraska, was merely using leading fertilizer consumers as an example, nothing against the people of the Plains states or saying that they are more likely to put their family's well-being in harm. Here, in Kentucky, I could go to a numerous farms and purchase fertilizer no questions asked, today, tomorrow, whenever. With that said, no offense to the residents of Kentucky.
Curious to what are your thoughts are regarding , "Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point i'm trying to make. "
Curious to what are your thoughts are regarding , "Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds, materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point i'm trying to make. "
Pipe bombs are illegal. A person has to learn how to make one and build it himself in secret. Thus, we don't have massive pipe bombings every week. In fact, very rarely.
Semi-automatic weapons, and devices that convert them to automatic weapons, are legal and easy to acquire. We have deadly mass shootings on a weekly basis.
Boston Marathon, over 200 injured in seconds
No offense, but you are using an analogy with less than half the injuries of Vegas, and 55 less deaths. And it's easier to spray with an AR-15 than learn how to build a bomb. It's not about eliminating mass shootings but rather making it as difficult as possible for them - not buying an AR-15 and spraying. Can you make a fertilizer bomb and execute controlled detonation easier than you can spray an AR-15? Just curious.
materials cost WAY less than any firearm, and MUCH easier to conceal. If someone wants to hurt people, they will, regardless of a firearm, is the point i'm trying to make.
But very difficult to make compared to shooting an automatic weapon.
Next?
But very difficult to make compared to shooting an automatic weapon.
Next?
Unfortunately they are not very difficult to build, I bet you have every ingredient in your kitchen/garage/basement right now. A quick Google search and about an hours time, you have a bomb capable of killing.
You guys win. Gotta get out of this Whippin Post.
But very difficult to make compared to shooting an automatic weapon.
Next?
You make it sound like what this guy did was easy. Maybe buying the guns & ammo was, though he spent 30 years doing that. All indications are that this took a great deal of planning. Just because you can buy guns & accessories legally does not make pulling off a sick stunt like this easy. The time and effort this sick bastard put into this I'll bet would have been more than sufficient for him to learn to make bombs. Fact is he had explosive material in his car at the time he did this. We don't know why he chose to do what he did. But the point that someone COULD make bombs and do similar damage is indeed a valid point whether you think it is or not.
No offense, but you are using an analogy with less than half the injuries of Vegas, and 55 less deaths. And it's easier to spray with an AR-15 than learn how to build a bomb. It's not about eliminating mass shootings but rather making it as difficult as possible for them - not buying an AR-15 and spraying. Can you make a fertilizer bomb and execute controlled detonation easier than you can spray an AR-15? Just curious.
Again you make it sound so easy, anybody could do it. How about jet airliners flying into buildings? Is that enough casualties for you? Perhaps flying lessons should be illegal? I am a pilot and I didn't have to pass any kind of mental health test to take flying lessons.
But very difficult to make compared to shooting an automatic weapon.
Next?
You make it sound like what this guy did was easy. Maybe buying the guns & ammo was, though he spent 30 years doing that. All indications are that this took a great deal of planning. Just because you can buy guns & accessories legally does not make pulling off a sick stunt like this easy. The time and effort this sick bastard put into this I'll bet would have been more than sufficient for him to learn to make bombs. Fact is he had explosive material in his car at the time he did this. We don't know why he chose to do what he did. But the point that someone COULD make bombs and do similar damage is indeed a valid point whether you think it is or not.
No offense, but you are using an analogy with less than half the injuries of Vegas, and 55 less deaths. And it's easier to spray with an AR-15 than learn how to build a bomb. It's not about eliminating mass shootings but rather making it as difficult as possible for them - not buying an AR-15 and spraying. Can you make a fertilizer bomb and execute controlled detonation easier than you can spray an AR-15? Just curious.
Again you make it sound so easy, anybody could do it. How about jet airliners flying into buildings? Is that enough casualties for you? Perhaps flying lessons should be illegal? I am a pilot and I didn't have to pass any kind of mental health test to take flying lessons.
What would have been his plan if assault weapons were not available. He can still have a pistol, shotgun and hunting rifle. Could he mow down 500+ people from 500 yards? no
Also where have you been since 9/11....its much harder to get on a plane now...a big PITA
They made huge changes to security for flying. Also how many people are killed everyday in plane violence....how many die here everyday due to gun violence....more NRA Rhetoric
Please if you don't want to find a solution don't stop those who actually care to monitor the toys children need to play with
Also I couldn't care less what the NRA has to say on anything as far as I'm concerned their focus needs to be picnics and social events for their members in their club fort. They don't speak for the majority....nowhere close
I am a pilot and I didn't have to pass any kind of mental health test to take flying lessons.
Appreciate the heads up.
But very difficult to make compared to shooting an automatic weapon.
Next?
You make it sound like what this guy did was easy. Maybe buying the guns & ammo was, though he spent 30 years doing that. All indications are that this took a great deal of planning. Just because you can buy guns & accessories legally does not make pulling off a sick stunt like this easy. The time and effort this sick bastard put into this I'll bet would have been more than sufficient for him to learn to make bombs. Fact is he had explosive material in his car at the time he did this. We don't know why he chose to do what he did. But the point that someone COULD make bombs and do similar damage is indeed a valid point whether you think it is or not.
No offense, but you are using an analogy with less than half the injuries of Vegas, and 55 less deaths. And it's easier to spray with an AR-15 than learn how to build a bomb. It's not about eliminating mass shootings but rather making it as difficult as possible for them - not buying an AR-15 and spraying. Can you make a fertilizer bomb and execute controlled detonation easier than you can spray an AR-15? Just curious.
Again you make it sound so easy, anybody could do it. How about jet airliners flying into buildings? Is that enough casualties for you? Perhaps flying lessons should be illegal? I am a pilot and I didn't have to pass any kind of mental health test to take flying lessons.
What would have been his plan if assault weapons were not available. He can still have a pistol, shotgun and hunting rifle. Could he mow down 500+ people from 500 yards? no
Also where have you been since 9/11....its much harder to get on a plane now...a big PITA
They made huge changes to security for flying. Also how many people are killed everyday in plane violence....how many die here everyday due to gun violence....more NRA Rhetoric
Please if you don't want to find a solution don't stop those who actually care to monitor the toys children need to play with
Also I couldn't care less what the NRA has to say on anything as far as I'm concerned their focus needs to be picnics and social events for their members in their club fort. They don't speak for the majority....nowhere close
The NRA speaks for gun and ammo manufacturers more than they speak for gun owners.
But the point that someone COULD make bombs and do similar damage is indeed a valid point whether you think it is or not.
It's not valid. He wasn't throwing pipe bombs into the crowd for over 10 minutes. He was using legal, rapid-firing guns, which did continuous damage and kept medical personnel and police from being able to respond and tend to wounded at the scene quickly.
After OKC or Boston, the only two major bombings in the US that I can think of off the top of my head from the past 30 years, no one gave hypotheticals on if the murderers instead had legal guns.
The NRA speaks for gun and ammo manufacturers more than they speak for gun owners.
Stephen Paddock was one of their best customers.
At the end of the day, the anti gun-control crowd resist trying to improve the situation, because they sadly feel as though they are losing some sort of right. Talk about sensitive snowflakes, good Lord. Their logic is: if Americans have to test their responsibiliy, knowledge, and competence before buying a firearm, they see it as a loss of a right. That's some perspective! Too many Americans put their own interests over the greater common sense good.
I am a pilot and I didn't have to pass any kind of mental health test to take flying lessons.
Appreciate the heads up.
Now that made me laugh!
A lot of you speak as if it is not possible to kill 59 and injure 500 in one incident with anything other than a modified gun. That is just not true. My point to all of you having such a hard time understanding it is simple. If there is a will there is a way. Bombs, planes, whatever. Someone said nobody had ever killed over 50 people and injured 500 with pipe bombs. Well, before last weekend no one had ever done it in the U.S. with guns either.
He chose guns.
He spent a great deal of time money & effort to commit this horrific crime.
Had he spent the same amount of time, money & effort I am sure he could have done even more damage with explosives.
Heck a person could do an awful lot of damage with very little planning by flying a plane right into a stadium full of people. It takes a SICK MF to plan and carry out any kind of mass murder and THAT my friends is the problem. Not the guns.
A reminder to everyone that our police require all recruits to submit to evaluations, both physical and mental, before hire, to determine fitness and competency to protect and serve. Can you believe how misguided they are! LOL, what a bunch of fools!
A reminder to everyone that our police require all recruits to submit to evaluations, both physical and mental, before hire, to determine fitness and competency to protect and serve. Can you believe how misguided they are! LOL, what a bunch of fools!
How many have slipped through? How many were good candidates but didn't meet the "unwritten" requirements for employment. Ya know those pesky "I don't like your political affiliations", or "I just don't want to hire you" ones.
All debate aside, there are two commonly owned products in American homes that can make a gas cloud that disperses the oxygen in the air and causes suffocation. I'm not going to name them, but I will say it was used during WW1.
I'm now wondering when the second amendment was written that they would have put someone's right for a thrill on the gun range over public safety. Because at this point that really what its about.
No one wants the pistol, shotgun or deer gun from you. The majority has spoken loudly so don't play hear no evil...its tiresome
Assault weapons are used only on the gun range or other place to catch a thrill. I don't think anyone hunts with them...nobody that I know does...but I cant say that people haven't tried...
So much has changed about what a gun was used for then and what its used for now. I'm guessing that most of you go to the grocery store for food...so hunting really isn't a necessity...its really a sport now...we don't have a war on our streets except for the ones we bring on ourselves and your right to be armed has never stopped one of these events. In fact the people who did have guns that night ran scared too...as there were several people who handed their weapons to police...smart thing to do....give them to who really understand their use
all of your argument are old and full of holes....I don't believe the second amendment allows you a thrill over public safety. No one needs an assault weapon but the military
The NRA needs to focus on picnics and dinner dances for their members and let the Adults in the room do the speaking. We've always monitored the toys children play with...time to do it again
Stop looking at weapons as toys...start looking at them as weapons
All debate aside, there are two commonly owned products in American homes that can make a gas cloud that disperses the oxygen in the air and causes suffocation. I'm not going to name them, but I will say it was used during WW1.
You could drop a piano on someone. But people don't, so we're not trying to solve a problem that isn't there. Lots of objects could be dangerous if you have a lot of time and imagination on your hands. However, there is a problem with large-scale killings by use of high powered firearms. So maybe address products that are being used, rather than waste time with hypotheticals.
How many have slipped through?
How many? Do you know, or is this just another hypothetical? A lot? A few? And even if some have slipped through, does that mean we shouldn't bother trying?
Let's hear some realistic solutions, not a bunch of excuses.
All debate aside, there are two commonly owned products in American homes that can make a gas cloud that disperses the oxygen in the air and causes suffocation. I'm not going to name them, but I will say it was used during WW1.
You could drop a piano on someone. But people don't, so we're not trying to solve a problem that isn't there. Lots of objects could be dangerous if you have a lot of time and imagination on your hands. However, there is a problem with large-scale killings by use of high powered firearms. So maybe address products that are being used, rather than waste time with hypotheticals.
How many have slipped through?
How many? Do you know, or is this just another hypothetical? A lot? A few? And even if some have slipped through, does that mean we shouldn't bother trying?
Let's hear some realistic solutions, not a bunch of excuses.
The arguments are never intelligent and thought out. They're so attached to their toy and fears plus to hide behind the 2nd amendment for a thrill at the gun range.
I bet they have a hard time realizing that 77% of the US doesn't own a weapon.
I didn't grow up in a gun culture. My farther said when he came back from WWII that he saw enough of what guns could do. His words to me when I asked for a gun. Are you scared?? or violent?? or when the day comes your so scared will you become violent? Can you deal with the emotions of killing someone?
In my family we weren't allowed to be scared of the unknown boogie man. I'm 60 and there hasn't been one day in my life that a gun would have been a good tool to have. Thank you dad for not allowing me to be fearful of the world around me no matter how much anyone else is afraid
If you hunt or collect plugged historic guns then I'll put you in the sports category....other than that you're either scared or a violent person...you won't change my mind
Since the OKC bombing, an effort was made to regulate and more easily track the purchase of large quantities of fertilizer. Also, companies have attempted to make the fertilizer less explosive. Regulation seems to have made a difference; or perhaps semi-automatic weapons are just much more easier to acquire.
"Paddock had 1,600 rounds of ammunition in his car, along with fertilizer that can be used to make explosives and 50 pounds of Tannerite , a substance used in explosive rifle targets...."
...an effort was made...
...have attempted to make...
If someone wants it, they will find it.
All debate aside, there are two commonly owned products in American homes that can make a gas cloud that disperses the oxygen in the air and causes suffocation. I'm not going to name them, but I will say it was used during WW1.
You could drop a piano on someone. But people don't, so we're not trying to solve a problem that isn't there. Lots of objects could be dangerous if you have a lot of time and imagination on your hands. However, there is a problem with large-scale killings by use of high powered firearms. So maybe address products that are being used, rather than waste time with hypotheticals.
How many have slipped through?
How many? Do you know, or is this just another hypothetical? A lot? A few? And even if some have slipped through, does that mean we shouldn't bother trying?
Let's hear some realistic solutions, not a bunch of excuses.
The arguments are never intelligent and thought out. They're so attached to their toy and fears plus to hide behind the 2nd amendment for a thrill at the gun range.
I bet they have a hard time realizing that 77% of the US doesn't own a weapon.
I didn't grow up in a gun culture. My farther said when he came back from WWII that he saw enough of what guns could do. His words to me when I asked for a gun. Are you scared?? or violent?? or when the day comes your so scared will you become violent? Can you deal with the emotions of killing someone?
In my family we weren't allowed to be scared of the unknown boogie man. I'm 60 and there hasn't been one day in my life that a gun would have been a good tool to have. Thank you dad for not allowing me to be fearful of the world around me no matter how much anyone else is afraid
If you hunt or collect plugged historic guns then I'll put you in the sports category....other than that you're either scared or a violent person...you won't change my mind
The key words here were ALL DEBATE ASIDE, and the application isn't hypothetical. It was used during WW1. Many were killed or at least severely disabled from the gas.
You did notice the QUESTION MARKS. They were asked to make people think about if the testing is truly effective and if the person doing the testing could have had their own motives in mind to who gets on the job.
Think on it.
