As stated before, personally I don't know how big a deal this all is or isn't. What I do know is that if the shoe were on the other foot - if "W" or some other GOP guy had done the same exact thing - the reaction from the Dem's would be at least the same. Fairly so, I suppose.

As stated before, personally I don't know how big a deal this all is or isn't. What I do know is that if the shoe were on the other foot - if "W" or some other GOP guy had done the same exact thing - the reaction from the Dem's would be at least the same. Fairly so, I suppose.

Actually, the W Bush Administration did do the exact same thing, on a much larger scale, with lost emails measuring into the millions. White House email servers and a private server, even!

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act. Over 5 million emails may have been lost or deleted. Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

As stated before, personally I don't know how big a deal this all is or isn't. What I do know is that if the shoe were on the other foot - if "W" or some other GOP guy had done the same exact thing - the reaction from the Dem's would be at least the same. Fairly so, I suppose.

Actually, the W Bush Administration did do the exact same thing, on a much larger scale, with lost emails measuring into the millions. White House email servers and a private server, even!

The Bush White House email controversy surfaced in 2007 during the controversy involving the dismissal of eight U.S. attorneys. Congressional requests for administration documents while investigating the dismissals of the U.S. attorneys required the Bush administration to reveal that not all internal White House emails were available, because they were sent via a non-government domain hosted on an email server not controlled by the federal government. Conducting governmental business in this manner is a possible violation of the Presidential Records Act of 1978, and the Hatch Act. Over 5 million emails may have been lost or deleted. Greg Palast claims to have come up with 500 of the Karl Rove lost emails, leading to damaging allegations. In 2009, it was announced that as many as 22 million emails may have been deleted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Never happened. #denydenydeny

personally I'm just gonna wait for the arrests and criminal trials. I'm sure they will start right after Obama's impeachment. until then I'm just not that interested anymore.

Hillary did nothing wrong. Everybody does it.

Hillary has done a lot wrong. That, however in no way minimizes the hypocritical sanctimony displayed by those who view Republicans as the embodiment of perfection by simply existing.

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

And if Bernie is tired of hearing about it, then so must the rest of America and it MUST be time to move on. It's not important enough to worry about. Hear that, FBI?

[Edited on 10/15/2015 by alloak41]

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

And if Bernie is tired of hearing about it, then so must the rest of America and it MUST be time to move on. It's not important enough to worry about. Hear that, FBI?

I'm confident that you'll make sure we don't minimize here at least.

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

And if Bernie is tired of hearing about it, then so must the rest of America and it MUST be time to move on. It's not important enough to worry about. Hear that, FBI?

I'm confident that you'll make sure we don't minimize here at least.

No, I'm with Mr. Bernie. Our time would be better served with current topics like how Bush caused the subprime housing meltdown and destroyed the economy or maybe what happened in the Crusades?

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

And if Bernie is tired of hearing about it, then so must the rest of America and it MUST be time to move on. It's not important enough to worry about. Hear that, FBI?

I'm confident that you'll make sure we don't minimize here at least.

No, I'm with Mr. Bernie. Our time would be better served with current topics like how Bush caused the subprime housing meltdown and destroyed the economy or maybe what happened in the Crusades?

Is that what he was talking about during the debate when he tried to move past the Hilary email topic? Hmmmm, I must have been getting another beer at that point.

Not a member of my party? Then attack, insult, bring down - the qualities of a true leader.

My view is:

Hilary Clinton is scheduled to testify before the Benghazi committee on October 22. The proceedings will be televised. There are also a number of ongoing investigations on the server/ email affair and so there are numerous avenues through which the public can stay informed about this issue. Bernie would have been aware of all of the above.

Bernie probably detected public fatigue among Democrats on the Republican fixation over the emails and saw an opportunity to score some easy political points. Bernie’s people were already collecting money on the chivalry he displayed to Hillary before the debate was over. It was a great camera moment as Bernie very visibly took control. It was a very commanding display of leadership by Bernie.

It went so smoothly that the true master of theatrics Donald Trump immediately started to attack Bernie. Trump quickly said that Hillary won the debate as she has a lot of baggage he can exploit in the general. Why was Trump so generous towards Hillary? Trump would have a more difficult time against Bernie as Bernie has almost no BS about him that Trump can use to smear him.

An entanglement between Trump and Bernie would inevitably turn into the ultimate war between capitalism versus socialism. And since Bernie used Pope Francis as a supporter of the wealth redistribution programs he is advocating, the Trump/Bernie battle could easily escalate into a fight between the rich and poor, and between the forces of good and evil. This is a conversation that is long overdue.

I would agree that there is some kind of a broad plot afoot to ensure Hillary gets the nomination but it does not involve Bernie.

The important point here is the relationship between Hillary and Bill Clinton, and the Foundation and its international donors, but that has not really come up yet and I doubt it is related to the emails. Bill Clinton is not that stupid.

I agree with axeman. Bernie is a politician. At the end of the day, they are all the same. They take sides, say what they need to say, and once in office, the same wheel keeps spinning. A few dozen kindergarteners were killed in school and the so-called liberal progressive anti-gun agenda Obama did absolutely nothing. Zilch. Nada. If that's not proof that politics is all smoke and mirrors, then I don't know what is. I won't let Bernie or anyone else fool me into thinking they are somehow different. At this point I'll vote for whoever presents the best ideas to improve the economy.

I agree with axeman. Bernie is a politician. At the end of the day, they are all the same. They take sides, say what they need to say, and once in office, the same wheel keeps spinning. A few dozen kindergarteners were killed in school and the so-called liberal progressive anti-gun agenda Obama did absolutely nothing. Zilch. Nada. If that's not proof that politics is all smoke and mirrors, then I don't know what is. I won't let Bernie or anyone else fool me into thinking they are somehow different. At this point I'll vote for whoever presents the best ideas to improve the economy.

The obvious choice would be Donald Trump on economic development but then even he capitulated when he submitted his tax plan and let the hedge funds off the hook.

The gun issue is a drag I would admit that. Bernie though is pro gun and very up front about it.

Bernie does have strong ideas on economic redistribution that may be a little idealistic and unattainable because of the power structure you refer to. If you feel that capitalism by itself has been a whopping success this would be a good reason not to support him.

You guys think this is all a ruse and at the age of 73 he has created this mad Marx like character to storm around the country pulling the wool over people's eyes?

I agree with axeman. Bernie is a politician. At the end of the day, they are all the same. They take sides, say what they need to say, and once in office, the same wheel keeps spinning. A few dozen kindergarteners were killed in school and the so-called liberal progressive anti-gun agenda Obama did absolutely nothing. Zilch. Nada. If that's not proof that politics is all smoke and mirrors, then I don't know what is. I won't let Bernie or anyone else fool me into thinking they are somehow different. At this point I'll vote for whoever presents the best ideas to improve the economy.

The obvious choice would be Donald Trump on economic development but then even he capitulated when he submitted his tax plan and let the hedge funds off the hook.

The gun issue is a drag I would admit that. Bernie though is pro gun and very up front about it.

Bernie does have strong ideas on economic redistribution that may be a little idealistic and unattainable because of the power structure you refer to. If you feel that capitalism by itself has been a whopping success this would be a good reason not to support him.

You guys think this is all a ruse and at the age of 73 he has created this mad Marx like character to storm around the country pulling the wool over people's eyes?

Bernie is pro-gun and pro gun-control. They are not mutually exclusive.

You have to give Bernie credit; he really does believe in socialism. Often he throws out “Denmark, Norway and Sweden”; three very small countries that don’t have to pay for a national defense.

Curiously he never mentions Venezuela.

You have to give Bernie credit; he really does believe in socialism. Often he throws out “Denmark, Norway and Sweden”; three very small countries that don’t have to pay for a national defense.

Curiously he never mentions Venezuela.

Why would he? Do you mention Uganda as an example when discussing capitalism?

You have to give Bernie credit; he really does believe in socialism. Often he throws out “Denmark, Norway and Sweden”; three very small countries that don’t have to pay for a national defense.

Curiously he never mentions Venezuela.

Why would he? Do you mention Uganda as an example when discussing capitalism?

__________________________________________________________________________

The very clear point flew right over your head.

You have to give Bernie credit; he really does believe in socialism. Often he throws out “Denmark, Norway and Sweden”; three very small countries that don’t have to pay for a national defense.

Curiously he never mentions Venezuela.

Why would he? Do you mention Uganda as an example when discussing capitalism?

__________________________________________________________________________

The very clear point flew right over your head.

No it didn't, but my response clearly went over yours.

Bernie is pro-gun and pro gun-control. They are not mutually exclusive.

Bernie was on Bill Maher last night and that was a blast.

I prefer Bernie over any of the other candidates but I have to admit until the debate I just assumed Bernie's views on guns and gun control were pretty standard liberal fare.

Bernie has voted against gun control bills in the past and he voted against the Brady Bill and this is an issue Clinton will attack him on.

When criticized by Hillary Clinton for voting against the Brady Bill, Sanders replied that “when we develop that consensus, we can finally, finally do something to address this issue.” Shortly thereafter, when former Maryland governor Martin O’Malley talked about his success in passing gun control legislation—despite facing a large contingency of conservative Democrats in his own state—Sanders argued that “the views on gun control in rural states are different than in urban states.” In his opinion, a president’s job must be “to bring people together around strong, common sense gun legislation.”

http://www.salon.com/2015/10/16/the_senator_who_couldnt_shoot_straight_what_bernie_sanders_gets_wrong_about_gun_control_partner/

To me it sort of sounds like his perception of gun control would shift if he became president.

If you listened to the debate Bernie didn't forgive the email "scandal". All he said is that this Nation has bigger problems to deal with and that the next President has to address fixing this broken country.

Agreed.

But, Hillary said that it was legal for her to use her private email. The questions seem to be because she is privy and part decision maker in National Security Issues. Politicians should just keep their work lives and work email at work, and their personal lives and personal email at home. What doesn't get finished at the end of your work day starts tomorrow. For emergencies, have a red phone in your home that people can call you if there is a crisis. Use that phone ONLY for WORK EMERGENCIES if you are in the position that she was in. That way there is no need to use personal email, if something can't wait, let them call you and speak to you about it. SIMPLE.

You have to give Bernie credit; he really does believe in socialism. Often he throws out “Denmark, Norway and Sweden”; three very small countries that don’t have to pay for a national defense.

Curiously he never mentions Venezuela.

Venezuela is not a model for any of Bernie's polices as it is basically a corrupt state which relies on its military to maintain order. The Venezuelan states also controls key industries but so did the fascist European states and they were right wing.

The Nordic countries are capitalist states which use the state structure to ensure each citizen has access to essential services such as health care and education. Bernie would like to tax the wealthiest US families to pay for free public education basically extending many of the services that already exist.

If the tax increase were limited to just the 115,000 households in the top 0.1 percent, with an average income of $9.4 million, a 40 percent tax rate would produce $55 billion in extra revenue in its first year.

That would more than cover, for example, the estimated $47 billion cost of eliminating undergraduate tuition at all the country’s four-year public colleges and universities, as Senator Bernie Sanders has proposed, or Mrs. Clinton’s cheaper plan for a debt-free college degree, with money left over to help fund universal prekindergarten.

A tax rate of 45 percent on this select group raises $109 billion, more than enough to pay for the first year of a new $2,500 child tax credit introduced by Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/17/business/putting-numbers-to-a-tax-increase-for-the-rich.html?src ="me&_r=0"

Bernie has said there is no difference between what Pope Francis is advocating based on Biblical scripture and what he states he would do. It would be more accurate to say Bernie is acting in the spirit of Christianity than bringing up any comparison to Venezuela.

Politicians are elected by the people to represent them. Rich people are not. The premise of this is flawed. Try harder.

Here is an interesting addition to the "Damn emails" incident.

Should be enlightening to the two people that still think the mainstream media is anything more that a propaganda machine. Interesting read for the rest too:

CNN edited out (meaning censored) Bernie Sanders comments immediately following "damn emails" calling out the mainstream media for not discussing actual issues:

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/14/cable-news-edits-out-rousing-sanders-attack-on-vapid-media-coverage/

Bernie's "crisis" is income inequality. He has stated that the USA had "more wealth and income inequality than any other nation."

Not even close. The US ranks 42nd in income inequality if you're keeping score at home.

Bernie's "crisis" is income inequality. He has stated that the USA had "more wealth and income inequality than any other nation."

Not even close. The US ranks 42nd in income inequality if you're keeping score at home.

You didn't cite a source for the quote or the ranking. Regarding the quote, if he said that exactly as you have posted it here, then that's not correct (although not far off depending on which ranking you use). However, if he qualified it with something like "any other developed nation", he most certainly has a point, depending how the ranking is determined.

Regarding the ranking, not sure where you saw the US at 42, but in a quick search I found the US ranked as high as 4th and as low as 57th, depending on the index being used. Whichever data you use, one thing is constant...the US has the worst income inequality problem among developed nations/economies. For example, here's a ranking using the World Bank GINI index...the US is #57, but look at the companies ranking higher i.e. worse on income inequality and see how many you think are comparable to the US....

Rank Country Value Year
1 Seychelles 65.77 2006
2 South Africa 65.02 2011
3 Comoros 64.30 2004
4 Namibia 61.32 2009
5 Botswana 60.46 2009
6 Haiti 59.21 2001
7 Zambia 57.49 2010
8 Honduras 57.40 2011
9 Central African Republic 56.30 2008
10 Lesotho 54.17 2010
11 Colombia 53.53 2012
12 Belize 53.13 1999
13 Suriname 52.88 1999
14 Brazil 52.67 2012
15 Guatemala 52.35 2011
16 Panama 51.90 2012
17 Swaziland 51.49 2009
18 Papua New Guinea 50.88 1996
19 Chile 50.84 2011
20 Rwanda 50.82 2011
21 Costa Rica 48.61 2012
22 Mexico 48.07 2012
23 Paraguay 48.01 2012
24 Kenya 47.68 2005
25 The Gambia 47.28 2003
26 Bolivia 46.64 2012
27 Ecuador 46.57 2012
28 Malaysia 46.21 2009
29 Malawi 46.18 2010
30 Togo 45.96 2011
31 Nicaragua 45.73 2009
32 Dominican Republic 45.68 2012
33 Mozambique 45.66 2009
34 Jamaica 45.51 2004
35 Peru 45.33 2012
36 Venezuela 44.77 2006
37 Uganda 44.55 2012
38 Guyana 44.54 1998
39 Dem. Rep. Congo 44.43 2005
40 Macedonia 44.20 2008
41 Cabo Verde 43.82 2007
42 Argentina 43.57 2011
43 Benin 43.53 2011
44 Chad 43.30 2011
45 Côte d'Ivoire 43.19 2008
46 Philippines 43.03 2012
47 Nigeria 42.95 2010
48 Fiji 42.83 2008
49 Israel 42.78 2010
50 Ghana 42.76 2005
51 Angola 42.66 2008
52 St. Lucia 42.58 1995
53 Gabon 42.19 2005
54 El Salvador 41.80 2012
55 Georgia 41.35 2012
56 Uruguay 41.32 2012
57 United States 41.12 2010

Here is an interesting addition to the "Damn emails" incident.

Should be enlightening to the two people that still think the mainstream media is anything more that a propaganda machine. Interesting read for the rest too:

CNN edited out (meaning censored) Bernie Sanders comments immediately following "damn emails" calling out the mainstream media for not discussing actual issues:

https://theintercept.com/2015/10/14/cable-news-edits-out-rousing-sanders-attack-on-vapid-media-coverage//blockquote >

First, this is not an addition to the OP you presented about "Damn emails" as you've changed the signifier from Bernie to the media and in doing so you set up a straw man argument. In this post--with the article that you cite--you are absolving Bernie of what you accused him of in your first post thereby attacking your own initial argument.

Media manipulation of the news is not a new topic. William Burroughs did a series of cut up novels in the sixties--see Ticket That Exploded as an example.

When one refers to propaganda it is useful to identify who or what the media is propagandizing for. It could be that the media has a collective self-interest in seeing Clinton elected. Why would the media prefer Clinton over Sanders?