Exactly my point, Cyclone....Trump has done tons of sh@t any other federal official, elected or otherwise, would have been impeached for or faced immediate criminal charges for. His violation right from day one of the emoluments clause alone would have been a big issue for any other president...Could you imagine Barak Obama getting away with such obvious criminality?
Again, the congress in a bi-partisan manner (if that's even possible anymore) should codify and strengthen the guard rails around the Executive branch to prevent these kinds of things from occurring ever again. Then let the courts decide should they be challenged by the next president who violates them.
As I said, the constitution already has the protections you want, but there was no will from this Congress to enforce them. Look how long it took for impeachment to occur & how McConnell rammed it through w/o a single vote from the GOP senators to remove him from office.
Mueller may have requested sealed indictments against Trump that await him upon leaving office - but again, there was no will to challenge a single DOJ memo that says a sitting president can't be indicted. Even a special prosecutor charged w/finding a specific crime didn't dare indict in a timely manner.
Same w/Congress. They can pass legislation, but as long as prosecutors believe this untested internal DOJ memo, no sitting president is going to be indicted.
The rationale is that it distracts the president from the business of running the country. That may be true for a stale sexual discrimination/harassment charge (Clinton), but inciting a riot should get the president out of the business of running the country.
There have been Independent and Conservative Senators in modern times (since the 1970s) and Independent, Conservative, and Libertarian Representatives since the 1960s. I don't know that there were multiples serving simultaneously, but it's not an impossibility.
Actually there are many other parties that do make runs at elected office. Problem is that many are more whack jobs than the ones we got.
Start locally. Vote for independent candidates. Let politicians know that you are an independent voter. Don't register (if required to register under a party) either Dem or GOP. If you are registered under a party, change it to independent. In Ga. you don't register as a party affiliate. Get the local Board of Elections to hold open primaries with everyone running on the ballot. Why pay for the cost of two primaries when one will do? Allow all parties to qualify for the primary.
Primary qualification questions should be:
Are you a US citizen?
Are you a resident of this state and live in the district you wish to represent ?
Are you under any legal restrictions that would disqualify you for this position?
Proof of the above is all that is needed to run for office.
The registration fee should be enough to cover the background check.
I feel that if enough voters change to independent the BIG DUO will take notice that we are tired of our elected officials acting as if they don't work for the voters, just what their party tells them to.
I'll see if I can work up a sign for the next election saying "I'M VOTING INDEPENDENT!!!!!!!!!" Remember, it's only 2 years away.
An open primary ballot is something we need in Ohio and I believe in most states (or for sure many?) you have to declare the Democrat or Republican ballot.
I have had to take the "issues only" ballot as my form of protest at the polling location instead of taking the Democrat or Republican primary ballot. When I sign my name in the register, there have never been more than 3 people taking the "issue only" ballot.
I think the way things are now, if major candidates view you as an independent, you say you are independent and voting independent then you are either just a swing voter to them or somebody they can ignore. Chances are they know you will vote for either the D or the R so they can push the typical buttons they think they need to push to try and get you on their side.
A lot of the change is just kind of slow evolutionary change...maybe our great great grandchildren might live in a more free and open political system, but we are stuck with this broken system that doesn't deliver results for the country.
So many things need to change. I'm willing to do and try these little things, just sure as shit I'll be dead before any major changes, if ever, take hold. I think somehow the system has to blow up first.
I am so happy the Republican party is fractured. Now, only if the same thing could happen with the Democrats, it might take a while. If these two parties implode from within maybe the remaining pieces form something different. Until then, they will probably find ways to retain all the power and this is just wasted time. But, what else is a message board for!
There's nothing that prevents voters from electing candidates from a variety of parties besides the Big 2. Both houses of Congress have had members who were Independents, Conservative, and Libertarian. This is where I think voters & candidates are responsible for presenting options.
We, the voters, are responsible for requiring candidates to adhere to a single slate of ideas & creating single-issue voters. Some states don't require voters to register w/a party. In many ways, voters have restricted themselves - i.e., I want 9 out of 10 things this candidate is offering, but I don't agree on the stance on ___ so I'm going to vote for the candidate who really doesn't best represent me. We can't be passive & expect things to change.
@nebish It's almost like the NCAA football fans who cry for a wider (8 teams?) playoff system. I honestly feel like even just ONE more viable party would make the existing two work more towards UNIFICATION rather than division. I think the future of our nation depends on it. I honestly do.
There's nothing that prevents voters from electing candidates from a variety of parties besides the Big 2. ...
With only "the big 2" - there exists the notion that a vote for any third party (candidate) is a "throw-away vote". I typically vote my conscience - which has resulted in my voting for a third party on a couple of occasions (I honestly thought Gary Johnson was a better choice than Hillary or Donald - my opinion - my vote). With "the big 2" - you sometimes find yourself choosing the lesser of two evils - as I did during the recent election. I feel good about my choice in the fact that Trump didn't get reelected.
We were talking about Congress not the top of the ticket. Having third-party representatives would help block the partisan hold on legislation. We've had them before.
Have to say, I've NEVER seen anything like McConnell's hold on the GOP Senate these past 4 years - to the point it seemed like senators & their families were physically threatened if they didn't go along w/voting not to impeach. After 1/6 and Trump's "Proud Boys stand by" I'm not so certain they weren't.
Either that or they're incapable of reasonable thought. Even before Nixon resigned, reasonable/objective senators from both parties looked at the crime, determined it fit, and said yes, this is wrong. He needs to go & we'll limp along w/Ford. When he left office, Nixon still had 25% of public opinion against his leaving office, but that means 75% saw that he was a crook. 45 years later, people are either defiant that Trump is a saint or he's a criminal autocrat, but who cares?
Have to say, I've NEVER seen anything like McConnell's hold on the GOP Senate these past 4 years - to the point it seemed like senators & their families were physically threatened if they didn't go along w/voting not to impeach. After 1/6 and Trump's "Proud Boys stand by" I'm not so certain they weren't.
Wow. GOP senators actually DO fear for their lives. As reported by CNN's Jamie Gangal, GOP senators have said they "are not going to vote for impeachment because they're still scared of Donald Trump. The WH continues to pressure these senators, that Trump has not stopped, and members FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES and for THEIR FAMILIES' LIVES."
Have to say, I've NEVER seen anything like McConnell's hold on the GOP Senate these past 4 years - to the point it seemed like senators & their families were physically threatened if they didn't go along w/voting not to impeach. After 1/6 and Trump's "Proud Boys stand by" I'm not so certain they weren't.
Wow. GOP senators actually DO fear for their lives. As reported by CNN's Jamie Gangal, GOP senators have said they "are not going to vote for impeachment because they're still scared of Donald Trump. The WH continues to pressure these senators, that Trump has not stopped, and members FEAR FOR THEIR LIVES and for THEIR FAMILIES' LIVES."
I saw that as you posted. These are the same individuals who went along for the ride, and now they see what it got them. Think back to Impeachment Round #1. Sycophants and fear runs rampant in the GOP. Thank goodness for freedom heroes like Jim Jordan.
Trump is a dangerous man and horrible for this country.
Wouldn't it be great to get a bunch of them elected?
There's no reason they can't.
Just need to get people to vote for them.
Doubtful there will ever be a viable third party for president that can make a dent. Ross P was the closest I can remember. There is just too much money in politics, and the 2 parties are going to continue to get almost all of that money. Citizens United decision by SCOTUS just about sealed that. In Congress possibly a slight chance but only slightly. The odds of securing enough representation in Congress of a 3rd party to compete and impact legislation is highly doubtful.
I think 3rd party representatives in Congress do make a difference. It breaks that stronghold that one party can hold. The impeachment vote in 2020 might've gone another way if McConnell hadn't had a death grip on GOP senators.
I think 3rd party representatives in Congress do make a difference. It breaks that stronghold that one party can hold. The impeachment vote in 2020 might've gone another way if McConnell hadn't had a death grip on GOP senators.
I'm having trouble following that. For example - in the HOR, the Dems hold 222 seats to GOP and 212. Maybe 1 open???? That's a slight drop in Dems from prior HOR. In the Senate I think but may be mistaken - 50 GOP, 48 Dems, and 2 independent that caucus & usually vote with Dems. Again, if these numbers are wrong someone can correct.
The point I was making and still hold is that there really is not enough 3rd party quantity to really make a difference as a challenge to the GOP or Dem strength. Possibly you are referring to the 2 current independents in the Senate that possibly could swing a vote one way or the other?
Maybe moving forward there is a split in the GOP that could have impact, but I doubt it. Here I'm referring to the traditonal conservative GOP vs Retrumplicans.
Theoretically. I agree that for the top positions, a 3rd party doesn't do anything except act as a spoiler. In Congress, though, 3 or 4 senators who don't have allegiance to either major party can make a difference and that's a good thing.
In the meantime, McConnell is trying to sever himself from Trump - hard to imagine given he's been his henchman for 4 years. If the Republican party is to survive, it needs to sever itself from Trump if only because their votes to object to the count on 1/6 cost them money - corporate America is turning off the tap or pausing contributions to the party and/or individuals who voted to object:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/10/business/citigroup-bluecross-commerce-bank-pac-donations/index.html
