They have come so far in the past 15 years, I can only imagine their performance 15 years from now. Gas is a huge annual expense (and never mind a geo-political and environmental albatross), I can't really understand not wanting this technology to succeed. I actually have a battery-powered lawn mower and am amazed by it every time I use it.

I agree, they are getting better and better and 15 years from now the charge time and distance you can travel and the cost and all that will be amazing I'm sure.

Last night on Rachel Maddow she had a guest from the NYT who was talking about some of the Biden environmental and climate change executive orders.  She said that market forces are driving auto companies decisions "because market forces have shifted so profoundly this past decade".  That is wrong.  Regulatory forces are what is driving how and where the auto companies are investing in their future.  In the US, there is no large demand for EVs.  They account for less than 5% of global sales, but because of the regulatory actions in our country and and globally that is pushing the auto makers towards EV.  It is not market forces.

Not me. I will never bother with switching to an electric vehicle. I have a Buick LeSabre with a good running V6 engine paid off. It's big and comfortable and rides good. In 2035 I will be 88 and likely passed on or too decrepit to drive a car. 

Also I predict enternal combustion engines will not be entirely phased out. Massive carbon capture locations around the globe and new bio liquid fuels will arrive that will make the internal combustion engine an alternative. 

Heavy trucks, locomotives, ships and especially jet aircraft will continue to burn liquid fuels . 

Jet aircraft will biofuels which are available now. It is a mix of kerosene and biomass which reduces jet engine emissions by 80%. Carbon Capture will take care of the remaining 20%. That is why United Airlines is investing in biofuels to bring down the cost per gallon and investing 100 million dollars in carbon capture. 

Coal will make a come back too. Bill Gates in investing millions in research for carbon capture and scrubbing that will allow the US to use it's vast coal reserves after all.

@nebish

Just wait until “instant charge” technology is implemented on a massive scale and integrated into vehicles.  Someday your car will supplement stationary charging systems by charging itself as it drives down the highway...

Think solar panels imbedded into asphalt and/or concrete road surfaces that not only plug into the electric grid via the power line running alongside the highway (thus powering the smart micro grid in that general area and the overall grid), but also charging your electric car as you drive over miles of these “smart” panels....It’s the future of power generation, distribution, grid stabilization, battery back up, and vehicle propulsion.

Seriously folks....This is the future.  And the infrastructure upgrades needed to achieve this future is a job creator the likes of which we haven’t seen since the massive military build up for WWII...

Well right now Biden's race to green energy is KILLING JOBS!!!! XL pipeline cancellation immediately shuttered over 1,000 well paid union jobs. And 10,000 good paying jobs that were to be filled now will not be filled. John Kerry said the thousands of jobs lost could be shifted to building solor panels. But when? You loose a 100K job today and maybe you can start building solar panels in a year or two and for how much a year? 

There already is a pipeline running from Canada to Steele City, Nebraska called the Keystone pipeline and it carries 550,000 barrels of crude A DAY. The XL would increase that to 830,000 barrels a day. That increase now won't happen unless the GOP takes back the White House in 2024.

Biden apparently planning to ban oil and gas drilling on public land which is where 21% of US oil and gas is extracted is claimed to be a recipe to cripple the New Mexican economy as well as Montana. 

Local leaders in communities that border the Permian Badin, one of the most oil rich places on US public lands, say ANY moves to make the 60 day pause permanent would be DEVASTATING to the state of New Mexico. A permanent ban would cost New Mexico hundreds of millions of dollars in royalties each year! Also it would cost THOUSANDS of New Mexicans their jobs and destroy what Covid 19 didn't destroy of New Mexico's economy. Utah, Colorado and Montana are also deeply worried and could face the loss of 10s of thousand of jobs and loose millions of dollars income for these states. 

The United States uses 20 Million 540 thousand barrels of oil A DAY!!!!

Are we going to stop pummping it out of US land and waters or buy it from Iran. Iran is desperate to sell 1 MILLION barrels of oil a day!! US sacntions is blocking that right now but what should the US do? Buy it from Russia? Oh yes Russia is in the oil and gas business. There is enough crude in Siberia to run the entire world for hundreds of years. 

How many barrels of crude oil does the WORLD use each year? 36 BILLION 400 MILLION barrels a year!!!

If the United States went to net zero carbon emissions tomorrow it would do next to nothing for solving climate change. Over 90 percent of CO2 emissions come from outside the United States with China, India, Vietnam among others polluting more than the US. 

It is silly for anyone to think they will live to see the day when the world does not uses billions of barrels of oil a day. Jet airways travel is expected to increase by 50%0ovdr the next 20 years with India being one of the major growth areas. 

Planting millions of trees, building thousands of carbon capture facilities and development of biofuels on a massive scale is much more the answer than this left wing push to drive an electric car. Every car could be electric now and the reduction of CO2 is minor. Ships, planes, locomotives, heavy trucks, militaries, manufacturing cement and steel, high rise buildings, plastics etc etc etc is where more CO2 comes from than all the cars and light trucks COMBINED.

I don't have any ill will towards electric cars and am not opposed to ever owning one.

At the same time, I am uneasy about forcing the gas and diesel cars off the road.  You have your grocery-getter, some random vehicle you commute to work in, going to a concert or a sports event, drive whatever gets you there - these vehicles could literally be powered be anything, electric is fine.  But electric can't be everything.

I think people are aware, but the automotive aftermarket industry is huge reaching tens and tens of billions of dollars and supports millions and millions of jobs.  Small family businesses and large public companies with everything from entrepreneurs, engineers jobs in manufacturing and the whole gambit of technician and supply chain and service jobs.  I have a background in working in this industry.  A lot of the volume sales at the company I was part of were vehicles that were current model and ones made in the last 20 years, but the older vehicles of 20-40+ years older, we sold a considerable amount parts and accessories for vehicles from the 1950s, 60s, 70s.  Call it a hobby for some people and a profession for others, call them motorheads or gearheads, fabricators, weekend racers at the local drag strip, dirt track or offroad park.  There is this whole passion people have to restore old vehicles, or do resto-mods kind of a thing where you take a Mustang that looks old and period correct on the outside, but under the hood and under the chassis they put a 2005 engine and transmission and fresh axles in it.  This entire part of society that does these types of things with cars and trucks; customizing, improving, modifying, restoring, updating, etc.

If or when electric cars rule the day...in 2035 or 2040...what becomes of the vehicles we think of contemporary now, but vehicles made in 1980s and 1990s and 2000s plus all the older ones that will survive from 1970-prior that people are still wanting to drive and modify and spend money on and contributions to their happiness and the local and national economy?

To some people a car is just a means of transportation to get from point A to point B.  No matter what it is really.  Disposable, upgrade it and discard the old one.  But to others, their certain types of older vehicles are a lifestyle and a passion to rebuild and modify into their own creation fitting their skill, desires, imagination, personality and use.

So I wonder about that.  It's not just like, find a new hobby, get a new car and move on with it - I'm talking about a significant economic driver.

Less than 5% of global sales and under 2% of the vehicles in the US are EV - and all of a sudden auto companies are taking away the offerings most of their consumers in favor of something they hope we want and the government says we most want.

It's not that I object to the government regulation to drive people's choices - I just want it recognized for what it is.  Government driving it rather than the market.  The market has been and is choosing what it wants and values.  I promote a heavy interventionist government role for trade where US production is favored and foreign production is discriminated against.  So if you want something to happen, that can't happen on it's own, government regulations can accomplish what consumers won't choose on their own.  So the government standards and mandates aren't my objection.

My objection is that we are phasing out fossil fuels, and gas and diesel engines, before the market determines their time is up.  We are picking an arbitrary date and saying - this is when you die and will be replaced by something else and anyone hanging onto the old - get with the future you fossil.

If you live in California and want to buy or own a gas or diesel car after 2035...I guess you will just have to move to another state?  Will some states even allow "classic" or "collector" cars?  California I'm sure would like to see them go to the crusher...those gross polluting gas guzzling hunks of iron.

The die is being cast.  If the auto makers only offer one thing, one thing is what we will have to chose from.  Some people are going to resent this and then if the older vehicles can't be kept and registered, don't have fuel available to purchased - or if they are banned - it's going to be a problem.  They'll sit in museums and all the land for manufacturing facilities, warehouses and offices in the automotive aftermarket industry can become solar farms.

Posted by: @robertdee

John Kerry said the thousands of jobs lost could be shifted to building solor panels. But when? You loose a 100K job today and maybe you can start building solar panels in a year or two and for how much a year? 

The training, skill and benefits that go into say a heavy equipment operator on a pipeline project or a pipe welder in the field and the pay and benefits that come with those jobs, eliminate those jobs and tell them they can put solar panels on roofs, that ain't paying the bills without a standard of living downgrade for those families.

Posted by: @robertdee

Biden apparently planning to ban oil and gas drilling on public land which is where 21% of US oil and gas is extracted is claimed to be a recipe to cripple the New Mexican economy as well as Montana. 

And Wyoming...51% of oil and 92% of natural gas comes from federally managed land.  Wyoming Tribune says leases on BLM land generated $438 million with about half of that coming back into the state.  Oil and gas industry provided $1.67 billion to state and local governments.  Getting equivalent funding for states like Wyoming, or New Mexico or any of the states heavily dependent on the fossil fuel industry is going to be very very challenging.

Here is where my ideas and desires align with the green energy movement.  Let's create a goal to stop importing any and all oil.  We can start by cutting off any country not in North America and eventually phase it to cut off oil imports from Canada and Mexico too....all the while we still explore, drill and produce our own oil on private and federal lands.  In 2019 the US imported over 9 million barrels of oil per day from 90 countries.  And as has been mentioned, we consume a little over 20 million barrels per day.  Now, it's a little complicated, the US also exports a large amount of crude oil...so we don't exactly consume all of what we produce - although I propose we should, natural resources in our soil should be for our use, not for sale to the rest of the world.  This is what I would like, be self sufficient for our own energy needs - don't limit the amount of oil we produce, limit the amount of oil we buy which would have a positive environmental impact in itself.

The free market will decide. Technology will only get better. Look at the gas mileage a modern car gets compared to the 80s. The auto companies were against Trump relaxing fuel efficiency standards. It pays for the govt to invest in green technology because other govts are doing it too and we will lose. The govt has invested a lot of money in the past on other projects - this has become different only because of the amount of $ in the fossil fuel industry. There are jobs in green energy and will be more in the future. I have several friends who are doing quite well in green energy lighting companies

As mentioned above, the fossil fuel industry is among those that are getting huge amounts of corporate welfare and tax breaks. For some reason, all of our tax dollars that go into the subsidies for oil / gas gets forgotten about. 

The free market will decide based upon the rules that are in place. One set of rules vs another set of rules could lead to wildly different outcomes. 

It's fine the US Govt wants to go EV for their vehicles. They are a large consumer in the market, yet the also are a rule maker for the market too. 

My point is it isn't a totally free market at play, it's a manipulated market to dictate a certain outcome. I would like that acknowledged for what it is. 

ideally, no energy company should receive any subsidies. Unless of course one form is to be favored over another form, then subsidies serve a means to that end. Fossil fuels shouldn't receive any federal subsidies unless some certain specific or unique details can justify it. 

@chain

I agree - especially about infrastructure job creation - but we're only talking GM here. There are other manufacturers who can stick w/outdated technology.

For national security reasons the US government must make sure fossil fuel companies meet the demand of the military as well consumers. The left including AOC and Bernie Sanders and now Chuck Schumer too want Biden to declare a climate emergency.  The environmental left want this and they want ALL drilling and fracking stopped in the United States and a ban on US fossil fuel companies of exporting their dirty planet destroying products to other countries.  

This is just simply unbelievable!! They certainly can't be serious.  Last year AOC said oil executives should be criminally charged as in 1989 the year she was born, they KNEW what their products were doing to the planet yet they FAILED to admit it and to take their products off the market!!?? 

That would have brought the United States to a halt and life would return to 1850. 

In 2018 alone  the United States Military used 269, 230 thousand barrels of crude oil A DAY!!! 

In 2018 alone the US Air force purchased $4.9 BILLION dollars worth of fossil fuels.  Navy $2.8 billion. Army $947 million dollars. Marines $36 million. 

The people on the environmental left can't possibly be serious that we can dump fossil fuels.  In fairness Bernie Sanders and AOC did have 2030, nine years from now, as the phase out date. Biden argued in the debates that it was impossible.  Biden is talking about 2035 to move electricity production off fossil fuels but Biden has to know that is pie in the sky. By 2035 electricity use will double so fossil fuels will still be needed. Biden sees 2050 as when the US goes to net zero but it won't happen in just 24 years. 

Also John Kerry just admitted in a recent press conference that the US could go to net zero tomorrow and the problem of climate change won't be helped much at all because over 90 percent of CO2 is coming from other countries. 

Electric vehicles - the near future.  If you're under the age of 75, you'll likely drive one at some point.

Hydrogen vehicles -  the not too distant future.  Also for fueling (heating/AC) your home.  It'll happen.

@rusty I'm 74 and will never drive one. As a matter of fact I'm planning to never get another vehicle. My 2009 Buick Lesabre is a V6 engine is paid off and I hope it will hold up for me until I'm not driving anymore. 

With millions of EVs on the road and more and more buildings and homes all electric ( perhaps dont count the structures with their own solar panels or windmills) and more and more factories going electric,  can the electric grid of the future support that much demand? 

Bill Gates of Microsoft fame feels big money should be invested in carbon capture installations all over the country plus high tech scrubbers on exhaust stacks at power plants so coal and natural gas can be used to make sure our lives aren't interrupted by brown and black outs. Most voters won't tolerate an unreliable electric system. 

And with heavy trucks, ships, aircraft and existing cars and light trucks continuing on the road for a few more decades and the US military with such an appetite for fossil fuels how will we ever get completely off the stuff?

Thousands of car collectors will want to drive their 1975 Chevrolet Corvette to the car show. I'm certain if the left becomes a cancel culture for any use for fossil fuels and try to ban classic cars, planes, trucks, tractors etc they will be voted out of office and be the brunt of dozens of riots similar to the Yellow Vests in France who took to the streets wrecking everything similarly to Antifa as they pushed back on France's plan to combat climate change on the backs of the working class. After some resistance the French government abandoned their climate change plan. 

Texas is not allowing Biden to mess with its fossil fuel industry and the huge revenues the Texas economy enjoys and points out how New Mexico could loose a billion dollars a year in oil revenues as 50% of theirs is on Federal land. 

Also before anyone jumps the gun, I dont watch Fox news as a rule or MSNBC. You only get a left or right spin and I dont enjoy the darn spin doctors on either network pretending to be journalists.  I noticed this on YouTube when I entered " Biden on oil drilling".

@robertdee  It probably won't have as much to do with "the left", cancel culture or anything like that.  Likely more to do with the availability and cost of gasoline and other fossil-based fuels which WILL run out or become so super-scarce that only the uber-rich will be able to afford them.  The problems that I see (for now) with electric cars has more to do with the disposal of those batteries as they get used up.  I would imagine that as the technology develops, you'll see bigger and more comfortable electric cars.  Maybe not on the scale of Coup Devilles or Lesabres - but better than the current golf cart-based Prius' and others.  

Posted by: @rusty

The problems that I see (for now) with electric cars has more to do with the disposal of those batteries as they get used up

There is value in automotive batteries.  Not only does any auto parts retailer charge a core charge to get your old battery, but scrap yards also will buy batteries from you by the pound.  It's always more money for you to exchange the core when you buy a new one, but if you happen to have some old car batteries laying around you can recycle them for money.

So it isn't like they are going to end up in some kind of landfill.  They will be recycled and some components recycled.

I just hope we don't import the bulk of our batteries from Asia and then sell our recycled ones back to them so they can then send us more batteries.

There are companies in the US developing and making batteries, some are foreign companies that have invested here.  Those companies need protected from cheaper foreign imports to allow a domestic battery industry to grow and flourish.

As for current conventional automotive batteries.  Most are made in Mexico.  I buy my batteries at Napa which almost all of their skus are made in USA.  Unfortunately Mexico has taken over for making the bulk of the brands out there including Die Hard, Interstate and lesser brands.  If you want a fantastic high performance batter then Odyssey is made in USA.  Optima used to be a high end battery made in the US, but it is now made in Mexico.

@nebish

With regard to the current lithium and Nickel based batteries that predominately power electric and hybrid automobiles, computers, phones, power tools, etc...Their dominance will possibly end soon as innovation is driving a revolution in battery technology...Completely away from such limited and very expensive metals like lithium.

Believe it or not, sulfur, an element we typically remove from everything imaginable and has practically unlimited sources all over the world, may in fact be the future of battery technology.....MIT is one such braintrust moving forward with “hybrid” lithium/sulfur batteries...

Thanks Chain, you've inspired me to read more into advanced battery technology as I was only aware of the currently developed lithium-ion

@nebish

The sulfur hybrid is only one of the promising battery developments on the horizon.....Others are in the works.  Some of which are more adaptable for grid storage and stabilization at large solar and wind farms as they are charged during off peak hours of grid use and so not only stabilize the grid, but provide stand by power in the event of power loss.  They also can reduce the cost of electricity for large, commercial users of electricity and to a lesser extent, residential consumers.  

It's actually quite an exciting time for researchers, scientists, engineers, etc. given the immense amount of capital being raised by all sorts of private and public entities for the development of the next generation of batteries.  

Posted by: @chain

@nebish

The sulfur hybrid is only one of the promising battery developments on the horizon.....Others are in the works.  Some of which are more adaptable for grid storage and stabilization at large solar and wind farms as they are charged during off peak hours of grid use and so not only stabilize the grid, but provide stand by power in the event of power loss.  They also can reduce the cost of electricity for large, commercial users of electricity and to a lesser extent, residential consumers.  

It's actually quite an exciting time for researchers, scientists, engineers, etc. given the immense amount of capital being raised by all sorts of private and public entities for the development of the next generation of batteries.  

It becomes quickly apparent to me, which auto company hitches their wagon to which technology that allows them to make claims about mileage or charge time or life expectancy is going to be all the rage in advertising.  They aren't all going to be using the same types and with different features and benefits consumers making sense of it all will be a challenge.  In terms of squeezing mpg out of gas engines, we don't really care anymore how turbos work or variable displacement engines - we just know they work.  Some standardized method of testing for the different batteries is going to need implemented - lots of claims thrown around.  Hopefully it can get to a point that reminds me of the Ford vs GM vs Dodge diesel engines and towing capacity claims - the great pissing contest of who can pull and haul more, it has gotten to the point now they can all tow and haul an absurd amount of weight that the ratings no longer matter.   

On a personal level, I’m getting to the point where I’ll be replacing my aging pick up truck and am excited about the fact that Ford, GM, and others will have fully electric trucks available in the next several months.  Ford, by the end of the summer i believe....

Trucks in general are so overpriced as is but now a fully electric is predicted to be up around 100k if you purchase anything beyond the base model. I believe it will be an obstacle for most buyers until the price comes down significantly over the coming years...Even with a federal and state tax credit.

Still, it will be interesting to see how one performs at the duties I use my truck for and in my climate. Summers in the 90’s and winters as cold as -40 zero with copious amounts of lake effect snow...

That was something else I was wondering is how the advanced cell batteries would do in extreme cold, typically batteries lose capability as temperature drops.  I'm sure it's all documented and written about out there, just new to me, new to a lot of people.

I hear you on the truck prices.  It's no wonder when you hear that is what pays the bills at Ford and GM, the expensive SUV and truck prices.  The base prices have really elevated the last 15 years, but I find a lot of times it is the options that really run the prices up.  If you are fine with non-power seats, no navigation, standard wheels, no fancy adaptive cruise and lane departure (when you can select it - that is getting more standard now) - it makes the price more reasonable going without that stuff.  Walking down the dealer lots you see most of the ones they get in have all the extra stuff on it, either because that is what people actually want or because that is the way they make more money and when the customer finances the total cost isn't so much of a hurdle all coming down to what the monthly payment is.  I tend to start with the total price first and get that down to only pay for what I want.  More prudent to search for one with out all the fancy stuff...although once you get used to heated seats it's hard to go back.  Atleast my wife can't.  I was tempted, tempted to get my current truck with roll down windows, but that was a bridge too far.

@nebish

I have a Ford F-150 STX I paid $32k for brand new in April 2009...The same truck today is well over 42k after a little haggling...And the STX is just slightly above a bare bones XL...

While they have improved the technology, I still think prices for nearly all trucks and SUV’s are way overpriced....To the point I may just drive my current truck until it can’t be maintained any longer...Maybe by then fully electric vehicles will be cheaper...Probably not but a guy can hope.  

I bought a 2020 Toyota Highlander Hybrid AWD last summer to replace my 2006 Toyota 4Runner 2WD. My Highlander gets 35 mpg, which is over twice what I got with my 4Runner. Plus the Highlander Hybrid, even though it is only a 4 cylinder vs the 4Runner V6, has more guts than the 4Runner. I also love all the new bells and whistles on it, although I'm still pissed  off that it didn't come with a cd player. I've been concerned about battery life, but it has a 100,000 mile warranty on the battery. With the gas mileage of the hybrid, I'm happy. I'm not looking forward to plug ins at all, but I'm sure by the time I'll need to replace my Highlander the technology will likely be pretty advanced.

@2112

I’ve been checking out the Highlander as I’ve always been a fan of their reliability and overall look.  While they’re pricey, they’re a Toyota so can last years if taken care of.  I also like that they have a hybrid version as that’s what I’m really looking for in my next vehicle since we have very few charging stations in my general area. Of course I can charge from my house, but I still would like the option of using a charging station if needed.  

From what you’re describing, 2112, it sounds like the Highlander Hybrid AWD is the way to go....I may just have to test drive one soon.  I’m also looking into the Chevy Bolt AWD. It’s a pure electric vehicle and is significantly smaller than a Highlander so it may not meet my needs.  Fortunately I’m in no hurry so can take some time and test drive and research various vehicles.

@chain

I've been very happy with it.

The only downsides so far is that it's expensive, has no cd option, and if you actually want to use that 3rd row seat, well, it wouldn't be comfortable. Also, although it has a huge amount to cargo space, with all the seats folded down it is not a 100% flat area. Kind of annoying, but I can work with it.

It sure is sporty for a SUV, runs great, is super quiet, has plenty of power, and has sure minimized my stops at the gas station.

I predict GM and Ford will never abandon I eternal combustion engines entirely. Some competitors will offer internal combustion engines and the market will be there as enough people will not want to fool with charging EVs all the time. 

The internal combustion engines of the future may not burn gasoline of diesel but some kind of biofuel which may contain some gasoline or diesel or hydrogen fuel. 

The people in office on the federal level may try to ban internal combustion engines by 2035 but eventually people will get elected who will reverse that. Want to win an election? If a lot of people want internal combustion engines or legal cocaine or name something, run on that and you will win.

@2112

My good friend’s son has a Highlander and love’s it....But has similar issues as you. My wife has a Ford Edge (her third one) and her seats don’t fold completely either...Kind of a bummer when trying to sleep inside of it when it’s pouring raining outside at a musical festival...lol! It does, however, have an actual CD player!

I suppose that makes up for the slight bump in the lower back area after sleeping inside it.....  

When an electric truck is offered that can go as far as my truck (520 miles +/- on a full tank) on a charge while hauling 3 people, several ice chests, and a weeks worth of luggage, get a full charge in the time it takes to stop, hit the bathroom, get a snack/meal if available, and continue another 520 miles, I'll buy one.

If it's going to be all electric vehicles, then the passenger rail service needs to be up and running.