Listened on my headphones while relaxing last night/early this morning. Enjoyed it very much. A lift your spirits kinda of show. Some of it had a Grateful Dead feel and energy.
Rather than extol the virtues of some of these fine musicians it’s enough to say this was a dull absurd train wreck.
Kadelick is ok and Seals is a classic but down hill from there.
I realize this statement will gain no love but Oteil is way out of his league,as he was with the brothers.there must be a reason he’s kept so low in the mix. And he should never sing.
It might help if they knew the songs they were trying to play.
Why do you say that Oteil is out of his league?
As an over 50 year bass player I’ve got my subjective likes and
dislikes like everyone else. So I can easily appreciate different opinions since taste is quite particular.
But imho listen to Phil and listen to Oteil-Phil is THERE big time on the high and low ends with many a dose of thunder. He is a counterlead player who concommitantly holds down the bottom. Oteil is barely heard and playing things that make little impact on the music. He plays Dead music like he’s new to it-and he is and it shows.
As the ABB bassist,again,he was barely heard and had not nearly the imprint of Berry,Lamar or Woody. He doesn’t hold a candle to any classic great Bassman like Jaco,Bruce,Cassidy,McCartney etc Jorgen of Mule eoulvewould have been a way better choice for ABB bass than Oteil and George Porter and Dave schoools are monsters compared to Oteil.
Just my opinion, but oteils limitations were highlighted in the concert shown here.
[Edited on 12/31/2018 by dadof2]
When Otiel joined the ABB in 1997, he was like Marc Q. who Butch stole from Spyro Gyra. The had only heard Ramblin' Man. Of course Marc played percussion on a few tracks on Shades of Two World's before playing concerts with the band.
But soon after Derek Trucks joined in 1999, Butch Trucks said in at least two interviews that Otiel was technically the best musician to ever be in the band and that Derek Trucks could play circles around Duane Allman. Obviously that was bluster from Butch and why he would day such nonsense is anyone's guess. Maybe Derek is as good as Duane but certainly not better. Gregg was pissed when he heard it and said Derek is a great player and reminds him of his brother's slide playing but Duane was the best guitar player he (Gregg) has ever played with. Gregg said nobody could light a fire on the stage like his brother. As to Otiel, Gregg wanted him replaced but supposedly, if the stories are true, Warren told Gregg he would quit if they sacked Otiel.
I'm not a professional musician but Otiel to me was fine in the ABB. He wasn't as good at the ABB sound as Berry Oakley or even Allen Woody but Otiel was better than average to me. I bet Otiel could really hit the note in a funk or jazz band. Or salsa band. Dickey liked him and it was Otiel, Derek and Warren who tried to get Dickey to play in the band again. Butch was very opposed and Gregg slowly warmed to the idea and by 2014 wanted to do some shows with Dickey.
Well let's not forget "Dad", Oteil is the longest tenured bassist ABB ever had and it's not even close.........somewhere right around 15 years. I think I'll trust ABB band members opinion on this......you tell me he sucks........yet they let him stick around for 15 years? REALLY?
You're way off base with your remarks. Oteil is a MONSTER, was a monster in ABB, and will continue as such................
Well let's not forget "Dad", Oteil is the longest tenured bassist ABB ever had and it's not even close.........somewhere right around 15 years. I think I'll trust ABB band members opinion on this......you tell me he sucks........yet they let him stick around for 15 years? REALLY?
You're way off base with your remarks. Oteil is a MONSTER, was a monster in ABB, and will continue as such................
Brief response:
1.length of tenure in the band does not equal level of quality.
2.must I agree with (or enjoy)every move the band makes? (Lawlwer?Goldflies?Frank
Toler?)
3.i never said or suggested Oteil sucks-your words-it’s a matter of taste and his style is not my
taste-is that a crime?
4.im “off base”-no I’m simply expressing an opinion you (and others) may not agree with-is that a crime? This is called a discussion forum for a reason.
5.at this stage in life none of this is personal for me just some fun thoughts to discuss-sorry I upset you Rob.
Happy new year to you and yours!
[Edited on 1/1/2019 by dadof2]
I think Otiel was in the ABB for 17 years. Yes the longest. While to my ears he didn't do the old ABB songs as well as Berry Oakley he may have been technically better. Butch Trucks thought he was.
Berry was in the band 3 years. Lamar Williams 4 years. Rook Goldflies 4 years and Allen Woody 8 years.
They played some shows in 1986 without a bass player. I saw one of those shows and Dan Toler and Chuck Leavell were in the band with Gregg, Dickey, Butch and Jaimoe but the bass players rotated back and forth. When they played One Way Out, Bruce W. of the Gregg Allman Band played bass and if they played Blue Sky the bass player Dickey had then played
I think McCoy may have been his last name. I just cant remember those names today. But at the show the constant changing of the bass player was something I had never seen any band do. Gregg was very good and Dickey, Chuck and Danny Toler played very good solos all night. Just two years later they were the ABB again in a more permanent way.
Dadof2, are you scared of improv? As a musician you should understand the highs and lows of live performances, especially collaborations. Natalie Cressman and Jenn Harwicks were great, the percussion player was also insane. Oteil and Eric Kranso are respected by their peers and countless others as some of the best modern musicians in their genres today. Did you like Dickey last night?
Dadof2, are you scared of improv? As a musician you should understand the highs and lows of live performances, especially collaborations. Natalie Cressman and Jenn Harwicks were great, the percussion player was also insane. Oteil and Eric Kranso are respected by their peers and countless others as some of the best modern musicians in their genres today. Did you like Dickey last night?
I thought Dad’s Post was well written and I don’t inderstand the attacks on his opinion. He is not a big fan of Oteil. So what? He is entitled to his opinion, I also thought Lamar and Berry were better players for the band.
Regarding your question regarding improv, I don’t like it when it It is not structured and I quickly get bored. Sometimes a song is better when it is 6 minutes long as opposed to dragging it to 11 minutes. That was part of the problem I had when I was at the Mule show on Saturday with the guest guitarists not named Jimmy Vivino.
Dadof2, are you scared of improv? As a musician you should understand the highs and lows of live performances, especially collaborations. Natalie Cressman and Jenn Harwicks were great, the percussion player was also insane. Oteil and Eric Kranso are respected by their peers and countless others as some of the best modern musicians in their genres today. Did you like Dickey last night?
Yes I like improv but I do admit to having a few fears and even nightmares about improv.
However,The comedians were usually very funny which made me less fearful.
I’m really glad you enjoyed the show.
Who’s this Dickey you speak of?
Another comedian from the improv days?
Happy new year young fella!
Like you say, taste is totally subjective, and Dead fans can be fervently defensive of their church. But as a musician myself, I'm a little baffled that someone would call Oteil "out of his league" - after Berry, I think he's the most talented bass player the Allman Brothers had. He's definitely more of a bottom player than Berry was, but not as much as Woody was. Certainly not as bouncy as Phil plays, but that's not Oteil's approach.
No one will claim Oteil is a talented singer, but no Dead fan can complain since he's certainly better than Bob Weir. I'll take Oteil singing "Franklin's Tower" any day, the Dead was never about good singing. To my ears, this doesn't sound like a train wreck anymore than an actual Grateful Dead show. It's not super tight, it's loose and jammy just like the most Dead shows. Frankly it sounds tighter than a lot of Dead shows I've heard. Not bad for an early show of a tour. As you say, totally subjective, we're all going to lock in on different things based on our preferences and experience, especially Dead fans who have strong ideas of how these songs should sound (some Dead Heads love Joe Russo, some hate his approach). Video never quite captures the energy of a show (and average speakers certainly never reproduce the fidelity and nuance of the bass), but I'm just not hearing what you're hearing.
[Edited on 1/2/2019 by porkchopbob]
3.i never said or suggested Oteil sucks-your words-it’s a matter of taste and his style is not my taste-is that a crime?
Never suggested it? You said he’s out of his league in this band, the Dead, and in the Allman Brothers, he makes little impact to the music, barely heard, doesn’t hold a candle to any classic bassman, etc. Forget semantics - your message is clear.
The Allman Brothers and The Dead hired him for a reason. My opinion is that you are bitter that your bass career didn’t take off like Oteil’s has. My opinion is that Oteil is one of the best bassists on the planet, and I’ll be trusting the opinions of proven legends like the Allman Brothers and The Dead who chose him.
Ok I’m not sure I can stop laughing long enough
to respond adequately but what the heck:
First my apologies to all who are upset I don’t like oteils playing particularly because I was unfair in implying he sucks. I was way too callous in how I threw out my thoughts.
He’s a great player but I just don’t like his sound.
No more need be said-it’s an opinion about music-not life or death people so chill a bit please.
Now to the funniest part of this thread-I’ve been playing bass for ever-some of you referred to me or themselves as musicians. Or to my frustration with my music career failure.
This is too funny that I’m even responding to this but I’m not a musician but just some guy,a fan who plays at home for fun. In fact I’m quite bad and luckily have had a very successful career in things other than music. The implication that I’m a musician or have ever attempted a career in music will have my family and friends who’ve heard me play laughing for days.
Too good to be true-thanks for the laughs!
So no need for an uproar:
I still think oteil is a player that doesn’t do much for my ears despite his excellent abilities and even though he is otherwise universally admired!
Happy new year!
[Edited on 1/2/2019 by dadof2]
[Edited on 1/2/2019 by dadof2]
I was curious why "the out of his league" comment. I never really heard anybody rip Oteil so I wanted to understand the reason for the comment. Dadof2 definitely knows more about music than I do so I can't really question his reasoning. I don't play. I can say that I thoroughly enjoyed seeing Oteil in Charlotte in early 2018. Definitely a highlight for the year for me. Great musicians around him and loved the R&b nature of the tunes. First time seeing Melvin Seals and it was just a pleasure seeing him tear up the B3.
While Oteil was a highlight for 2018, I have to say that Denson's Eat a Peach sat at the top of 2018 shows for me. He is always fantastic but to add stanton moore to the mix was way over the top. Perhaps we can debate the merits of Staton. I believe he is in a league of his own. But, I'm not a drummer.
[Edited on 1/2/2019 by PhilEverhardt]
I was curious why "the out of his league" comment. I never really heard anybody rip Oteil so I wanted to understand the reason for the comment. Dadof2 definitely knows more about music than I do so I can't really question his reasoning. I don't play.
Phil-you’re a nice guy but please read my post above-I am not more knowledgeable than you about music-don’t assume please-you may know way more than me.
I explained that I was too callous in my original post-oteils is a great player technique wise,but I don’t like his sound and style of playing. He’s a great guy too I’m sure but it’s simply a matter of taste.
to each their own. here's my two cents on OB:
if Colonel Bruce thinks you're pretty good, if derek calls you the michael jordan of bass, if you can play in the ABB, TTB, be courted by Zac Brown, recruited to play in Dead and Co., and more, you're doing pretty good.
oteil was probably the least true to the original ABB sound, but when they auditioned players, the band could have easily picked someone else who fit that bill. they choose oteil because what he brought was something the ABB had not had before - a jazz bassist. he was the perfect choice for a band that featured jack pearson and derek trucks. he went far out. loved him in the ABB.
Stopped reading when "Oteil is out of his league" was said.
Ask 10 top tier living bassists who their favorite living bassist is and AT LEAST 40% of them will reply "Oteil Burbridge".
Deleted after reply below.
[Edited on 1/3/2019 by AlPaul]
Hey, everyone's entitled to their own taste and you seem like a good musician and good guy but whatever Oteil is, he's not out of his league.
Doesn’t anyone bother to read what was said in a thread before posting?
To repeat once again:
1.i am not a musician-I play in my bedroom for fun and I
am like everyone here a fan.
2.again,for the third(?) time-my words about Oteil were callous and thoughtless.
Oteil is an excellent bass player.
3.oteils playing style and sound are not my thing-that’s a matter of taste,popularity of opinion notwithstanding!
4.i didn’t enjoy the concert posted here-to me it was a mess-simple opinion-one can argue but it’s a subjective judgement and I can’t force my ears,brain,mind and general consciousness around the sound.
Is all that such a big fucking deal-no one was killed or hurt and I corrected my poor judgement in verbiage.chill out folks-it’s only r&r and we all like it!
Happy new year to alll!
Ok Dadof2, since you mentioned George Porter, I'll share this video featuring him and TTB playing Ain't No Use. First, I love Derek's reaction to George singing. You can tell they both are digging it. Then, the horn section solos. Definitely some cool cats., Finally, the jam beginning with Derek, George, and Kofi. George bowing out to let Kofi and Derek to set the stage on fire. Got to be one of my favorites. What do you think Dadof2?
I do admit to having a few fears and even nightmares about improv.
LOL. Did you wake up before the solo tanked? hahaha
