History of a Les Paul Custom,
https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/news/141655/
https://www.musicradar.com/news/the-history-of-the-gibson-black-beauty
https://www.vintageguitarandbass.com/gibson/Les_Paul_Custom.php
The Gibson ’59 True Historic Les Paul Comparison
Some Warren Haynes gear videos. Can't remember if anyone already shared these
Warren's rig
Warren's secret weapon
Fender Custom shop Jerry Garcia Alligator Strat
https://www.premierguitar.com/gear/builder-profile/fender-custom-shop
Gibson? Fender? Les Paul? Strat? ...
It is beginning to seem like "the big two" are really just making standard, off-the-rack instruments these days. Pay attention to the guitars being played on stages in venues from large to small. These days, "boutique" guitars seem to be replacing the old stand-bys. We're not talking about "parts-casters" or instruments built from on-line sellers of bodies and necks. I'm seeing a lot of custom built, yet familiar looking guitars. Most have unique necks, headstocks and pick-up systems. These are not necessarily cheap instruments, either. There are several guys within 100 miles of me who are building incredible sounding/playing guitars Here just a random link that I found to reinforce this notion:
https://www.cottonwoodmusicemporium.com/collections/guitars
Here's a page from Reverb featuring custom and small-batch guitars:
https://reverb.com/handpicked/boutique-builds-superb-luthier-made-electric-guitars
Gibson? Fender? Les Paul? Strat? ...
It is beginning to seem like "the big two" are really just making standard, off-the-rack instruments these days. Pay attention to the guitars being played on stages in venues from large to small. These days, "boutique" guitars seem to be replacing the old stand-bys. We're not talking about "parts-casters" or instruments built from on-line sellers of bodies and necks. I'm seeing a lot of custom built, yet familiar looking guitars. Most have unique necks, headstocks and pick-up systems. These are not necessarily cheap instruments, either. There are several guys within 100 miles of me who are building incredible sounding/playing guitars Here just a random link that I found to reinforce this notion:
Good point Rusty. I think Gibson failed to keep up with the times and priced their guitars, think custom shop and even standards, outside the reach of many young players. They also did not create new modern looking models to capture the youth's imagination and quality was not always what it should be for such expensive guitars. I also there is a desire of the younger generation to have something different from their parents and Gibson has not offered new unique models like the new boutique companies.
Here is an interesting article about where Gibson failed to capture the youth guitar market. As the article points out many of these new companies are making guitars that look similar to Gibson's and Fender for a fraction of the price with unique features. One quote in the article is one company said they can make a Strat copy for less than $30!
Another article on why some current musicians dropped Gibson for other guitar makers mostly having to do with quality and not giving them what they asked for.
https://q1043.iheart.com/content/2017-10-16-why-so-many-guitarist-are-turning-away-from-gibson/
At one point in the 1980's it looked like Gibson was goner and then Guns N Roses broke with Slash playing Les Paul's. Some have written that Slash being seen as playing Les Paul's made them cool again and influenced other guitarists to want to play Les Paul's and saved the company.
Where is the new guitar heroes that can save the day for Gibson now?
Here's a page from Reverb featuring custom and small-batch guitars:
https://reverb.com/handpicked/boutique-builds-superb-luthier-made-electric-guitars
Beautiful guitars and maybe that is part of the problem for Gibson and Fender in that these boutique companies are catering to musicians making exactly what they want in better quality for what the expensive Gibson's and Fenders sell for.
Young players now are not seeing the modern guitar heroes playing Gibson's and Fenders so they want guitars from the boutiques companies.
When I think about the signature models Gibson makes these days they are all for old school classic rock guitar players like Page, Greenie, Kossoff, Allman, Betts, Haynes, Rossington, Perry etc. Even the music Slash makes is basically classic rock. Where are the modern rock guitar players in Gibson's signature lineup?
Where is the new guitar heroes that can save the day for Gibson now?
Agree. Where are the new guitar heroes in general? I just think with the shift in the style of music(guitar driven based) that we grew up with over the years, that you really don't have that to much anymore. Yes there are some great, tremendous players, but .....
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Cool low power 20watt head unit from Paul Read Smith.
https://www.guitarplayer.com/reviews/prs-hdrx-20-review
Interesting it uses dual 5881 power tubes which are rated to put out 25 watts a piece so they are usually used in amps rated 40watts or greater. This from the HiTest Guitar vintage tube vendor website
The Tung-Sol 5881 was original equipment in ALL of the higher power narrow panel Fender tweed amps and in the early 1960's Fender brown and white Bandmaster, Bassman, Concert, Pro, Super, Showman, Twin and Vibrolux amps. They were also original equipment in Marshall JTM45's made prior to mid-1965. Capable of handling the 500 plus plate voltages of early White Bandmasters and Bassmans, the Tung-Sol 5881 is one tough tube, providing superb tone and harmonic content plus unsurpassed service life.
-We also recommend the Tung-Sol 5881 in blackface and silverface Bandmaster, Pro, Pro Reverb, Tremolux and Vibrolux Reverb amps.
Be prepared for sticker shock at the prices for real NOS tubes on the website
https://www.hitestguitars.com/power-tubes.htm
They are are interchangeable with 6L6GC tubes used in the larger vintage Fender black and silver faced amps to give a different sound.
PRS also sells a 1x12 closed back speaker cabinet with a Celestion 12" speaker the can be used with this head for $399.
Not that I need another amp but I would love to try one.
Where are the modern rock guitar players in Gibson's signature lineup?
When I try to think of modern, concerning guitar heroes, they are hard to pinpoint .I am probably going to stretching that term way to much, because there really not any new guitar heroes in a sense in the way we grew up with in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Modern? The last 30 yrs since pickin's are slim.
Maybe not exclusively, but do play Gibsons. Would they classify as that type ,being "hero" ? Dunno...
Jared James Nichols
Joel Hoekestra
Doug Aldrich
Luther Dickinson
Warren Haynes
Derek Trucks
Lzzy Hale
Jake Kiszka
Noel Gallagher
thats all I got off the top of my head.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Concerning the topic of boutique . I find it interesting to look at the products and see what is being made outside the typical well known brands. I am sure the quality, craftmanship, sounds, playability are all very nice, but blue collar/working musicians like myself, that stuff is so far out of reach financially. Its not feasible for me.
I just randomly typed in boutique guitars here in the Mid West, and found this.
https://musicgalleryinc.com/collections/kurt-wilson-guitars
Like I alluded to , and this is beyond me , but 600.00 for 5watt tube amp with an 8 inch speaker?!?!?! Wow!!! Sorry, its probably subjective , but rarely anything sounds good coming out of a speaker that small, at least to me. Unless it has an ext speaker jack on the back ,I would not want it. I know these are not meant to roar like a 412 cab, but still for that price put a 10 or 12 inch in the thing. I had a long discussion about low wattage boutique amps a few years ago with a local guitar player, who is well know in these parts, who owns a guitar store and it was interesting to say the least.
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
Went to Sweetwater and type in Gibson Artist models.
https://www.sweetwater.com/gibson-artist-collection/series
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
If you got about an hour...
Everyone has a plan, till you get punched in the face,
To be completely fair and honest - a lot of the high-profile, professional players have endorsement deals with the manufacturers(not just Gibson). I'm not sure that most don't receive FREE instruments that are actually built a little better than what's on the rack at the big box stores. The best advertisement for guitar manufacturers comes in the form of pro-players using their axes on big stages.Where are the modern rock guitar players in Gibson's signature lineup?
When I try to think of modern, concerning guitar heroes, they are hard to pinpoint .I am probably going to stretching that term way to much, because there really not any new guitar heroes in a sense in the way we grew up with in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Modern? The last 30 yrs since pickin's are slim.
Maybe not exclusively, but do play Gibsons. Would they classify as that type ,being "hero" ? Dunno...
Jared James Nichols
Joel Hoekestra
Doug Aldrich
Luther Dickinson
Warren Haynes
Derek Trucks
Lzzy Hale
Jake Kiszka
Noel Gallagher
thats all I got off the top of my head.
I think it's funny when people bring up the prices of Gibson guitars but do not mention the prices of Fenders. Yes, you can buy a Les Paul Standard for $2,500, but you can also pay a similar amount for a Telecaster. The thing that caused problems for Gibson and, to a limited extent, Fender was a drop in quality while prices remained high. The thing that kept Fender's head above water was, because most of the work on the guitar is done by machine, there was a consistent quality across the model line, Gibson could not do this. Steve Miller said he switched from Gibson to Fender because he could walk into a store, pick up a Strat, and be relatively certain of what he was going to get. Boutique guitars cost more, and look remarkably similar to Telecasters and Strats, to Les Pauls, and Explorers and Flying V's and Firebirds. It is common to mix up collectors guitars, top end limited run artist models or special design guitars, with everyday players guitars. There are quality American made Les Pauls and Strats, SG's and Teles for around $1,000. new, off the rack. Good foreign made Epiphones (Gibson brand) and Squires (Fender brand) for about half that price. Boutique instrument are interesting, but they are not for everyone. When the Punk movement started a lot of the players were using Fender Jaguars and Jazzmasters because they did not keep their value as used instruments and were inexpensive quality guitars, Johnny Ramone used Mosrites because he could buy used ones cheap until he made the brand popular and the price went up.
... There are quality American made Les Pauls and Strats, SG's and Teles for around $1,000. new, off the rack. ...
I have been on a search for a decent and affordable Gibson Les Paul for about a month now. My research has taken me to the following conclusions (tongue in-cheek on a couple of these findngs):
* The only really "good" LPs were made in 1958, 59 and 1960. All others are basically, crap.
* The guitars built in the era when I was learning to play (Norlin era) are crap.
* The guitars built in the early 90's ("good wood" era) were better than the Norlin ones but they, too are crap.
* Gibsons got a little better in the 2000's. 2013 seems to be a good year for "okay" guitars, but these are also considered crap (unless you are a licensed Gibson dealer).
I'm sure that snobbery drives prices and opinions. I probably could afford to bankroll one of those 59 - 60 models, but my skills just aren't worthy. Price-wise, we're talking about the cost of a high-end, high-performance car ... or real estate on the bad end of town.
I was considering a "Studio" model - I still might go this way. But there is a lot of discussion among the lower-end "snobs" over which of these are or are not crap.
Internet shopping - especially the "site-unseen" venues (Reverb and other on-line "consignment" sites) - I find these to be "iffy". If for no other reason, people have varying ideas over condition issues. Craigslist - which I have bought from before - seems to be the field of choice for people offering "too good to be true" offers that may or may not be counterfeit instruments - or may or may not even exist.
All of this shopping and research ... and the guitars that I already own ... leave me questioning why I even want one of these things. I KNOW I don't NEED one.
I do own a Martin EC-0028 - the Eric Clapton model. This is not even a reproduction of the actual Eric Clapton Martin guitar (his was a 000-42). I purchased mine because it was a better fit/feel than the other Martins that I tried out.Went to Sweetwater and type in Gibson Artist models.
Having said this, I'm pretty sure that the extra price on "artist models" pretty much goes into the pocket of said artist. Prices for a typical, new Gibson Les Paul Standard seem to be about $500 less than for any of the artist models. This is my opinion based on my perception.
I was considering a "Studio" model - I still might go this way. But there is a lot of discussion among the lower-end "snobs" over which of these are or are not crap.
Internet shopping - especially the "site-unseen" venues (Reverb and other on-line "consignment" sites) - I find these to be "iffy". If for no other reason, people have varying ideas over condition issues. Craigslist - which I have bought from before - seems to be the field of choice for people offering "too good to be true" offers that may or may not be counterfeit instruments - or may or may not even exist.
I have a 2013 LP studio, I really love it. Sounds like a LP at about 2/3 of the weight.
One thing to keep in mind if you're buying online, Gibson uses several different neck profiles (baseball bat, slim taper, etc). If you have a preference you'll want to double check the model has what you're looking for.
@porkchopbob This becomes a bit of a conundrum - one of those "the more I learn - the more I realize I don't know" kinda things. You've posted before about your Studio model (I might PM you to brain-pick 😉 . The neck profile - something I've never considered before I started shopping for an LP. Ideally, it'd be nice to have several examples available to try out. I'm guessing that the original LPs had ... 50's neck profile? It seems that many people prefer the 60's profile?
When I first became aware of Les Pauls (Norlin era - 70s) - I think there were like, 4 flavors - Standard, Custom, Deluxe and Special. Now, there seems to be an endless variety! I'll confess to being one of those obsessive/compulsive types. Things become convoluted! Pull-knobs ... splittable pick-ups? I get confused!
Based on information that you posted, I decided to pursue a Studio model. Then, I keep running into this idea -"if I'm gonna buy one I want a "real" one". I get caught up and carried away with this notion. I think I'm back to the idea of a Studio model. I'm going to visit a couple of local music stores to see what they have. I had a couple of Studios picked out on Reverb ... wasn't able to pull the trigger.
EDIT:
"AWARE" of Les Pauls ...
Germino amps interview with Greg Germino. From what I have read he is an expert on the construction of vintage Marshall amps and makes some of the best Marshall clones in the business.
Talks about having seen the ABB 5 man lineup back in 1972 at Duke University. He taped the concert and wore it out learning how to play guitar
https://guitar.com/features/interviews/greg-germino-amplification/
@rusty In the latter part of 1970, Dickey Betts decided he wanted to play a Les Paul. According to Joe Dan Petty the first one Dickey bought was in Detroit and Dickey didn't take to it. Soon he had another one. Dickey went through several in the following months.
Red Dog related the story of one Les Paul which irritated Dickey so much he threw it across the stage but it didn't break so Red Dog put it back in the rack and when Dickey saw it the next day he beat it so hard into the floor the neck snapped so Red Dog then put it in a dumpster outside.
The Les Paul Dickey plays on Fillmore East is a tone I like. I'm told it use to be a Goldtop that was changed into a sunburst look. The Goldtop Dickey was playing in the summer of 1971 had an even better tone. That is it on One Way Out on Eat A Peach.
Yet another tone Dickey was getting with the next Les Paul he acquired and it was a beautiful sunburst with zebra pickups. I thought it was the prettiest guitar I ever saw and saw Dickey use it at several shows in 1973 and 74.
But when I went to my first Win, Loose or Draw tour show in 1975, Dickey was back on a Goldtop. Eventually I made my way down to the soundboard and asked what happened to Dickey's pretty sunburst with zebra pickups? I was told Dickey stopped using it because it was going out of tune too much. I later read the Goldtop Dickey then was playing was a 1957 he found at a pawn shop in Manhattan. Dickey himself said it was the one he had been looking for, he named it "Goldie" and it was Dickey's number one for many years. Dickey loaned it to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in the 90's and the several years it sat there on display it turned an ugly GREEN color. When Dickey got it back about the time he left the Allman Brothers Band ( won't go into that ) he got the guitar back and Dickey sanded the wood down and painted it red. Because of the Charlie Daniels song people always asked what happened to his red guitar? He was still playing the LP with zebra pickups when Charlie wrote it. So Dickey painted it red. It's a 1957 and Dickey says there is just something about the wood in those late 50's. But Dickey also cautioned the wood turns out different from one guitar to the other so try several before you choose one.
I wish we knew if these Les Pauls Dickey went through before he found Goldie were custom, standard or what and the neck shapes.
After Dickey was out of the Allman Brothers Gibson finally began producing custom and Dickey Betts signature Les Pauls. One signature guitar was a Goldtop and one was based on what Dickey did to Goldie when it became a red guitar. Dickey also received several custom Les Pauls in the last half of the 2000s and they did a Brother to Brother SG. A custom shop version of the SG Dickey gave Duane Allman to use as a slide guitar. Dickey said he was at the shop and tried out several of the SGs and was impressed how much they all sounded alike. Gibson gave Dickey two and he liked one better than the other so there you go. Must have been some difference.
@robertdee How I wish I had Dickey's finances, his pull with the folks at Gibson and above all else - his talent!
I'll run his errands, wash his car and take his trash out for a couple o' years if he's got a spare LP that he's willin' to part with! 😉
I think it's funny when people bring up the prices of Gibson guitars but do not mention the prices of Fenders. Yes, you can buy a Les Paul Standard for $2,500, but you can also pay a similar amount for a Telecaster. The thing that caused problems for Gibson and, to a limited extent, Fender was a drop in quality while prices remained high. The thing that kept Fender's head above water was, because most of the work on the guitar is done by machine, there was a consistent quality across the model line, Gibson could not do this. Steve Miller said he switched from Gibson to Fender because he could walk into a store, pick up a Strat, and be relatively certain of what he was going to get. Boutique guitars cost more, and look remarkably similar to Telecasters and Strats, to Les Pauls, and Explorers and Flying V's and Firebirds. It is common to mix up collectors guitars, top end limited run artist models or special design guitars, with everyday players guitars. There are quality American made Les Pauls and Strats, SG's and Teles for around $1,000. new, off the rack. Good foreign made Epiphones (Gibson brand) and Squires (Fender brand) for about half that price. Boutique instrument are interesting, but they are not for everyone. When the Punk movement started a lot of the players were using Fender Jaguars and Jazzmasters because they did not keep their value as used instruments and were inexpensive quality guitars, Johnny Ramone used Mosrites because he could buy used ones cheap until he made the brand popular and the price went up.
https://q1043.iheart.com/content/2017-10-16-why-so-many-guitarist-are-turning-away-from-gibson/
@rusty I've had the pleasure of talking with Dickey a few times but it's been several years since the last time. Idlewild South fails to credit the backing singers. Just lead vocals by Gregg except Berry Oakley on Hoochie Coochie Man. So once I asked Dickey who was singing "People can you feel it, love is everywhere" on Revival? Dickey said " I know it doesn't sound like it but that is everyone in the band". I said you mean even Butch Trucks and Jaimoe? And he said " Yeah man all six of us. I remember us recording that and we were laughing and starting over and clapping our hands but we got it down". And I was surprised it is all 6 of them. It sounds more like 3 or 4 singers to me. And it means Gregg did the lead vocals another time.
Dickey and the guys didn't have a lot of money at the beginning. I guess Phil Walden was paying for most of their equipment. Dickey said when they arrived in Macon in the spring of 1969 there were 6 of them instead of 3 and they needed $50,000.00 worth of equipment. That Phil Walden wasn't expecting all that.
Dickey said he was playing a 335 Gibson and Duane was playing a Strat when the ABB formed. Duane found a Goldtop LP he liked a lot so switched. Delany Bramblett loved the Strat Duane was playing so Duane always played it when he sat in with Delany and Bonnie and he eventually gave it to Bramblett and it became his main ax.
Dickey soon got a Strat hardtail he played for months, it's on Ludlow Garage live archival release. Then in summer 70 Dickey got an SG but soon got his first LP and gave the SG to Duane.
Before Dickey retired he had about 15 Les Pauls. A good number of acoustics and Dobros including the Roland Duane bought and played on Little Martha. Dickey is holding it on the cover of Highway Call. Gregg gave it to Dickey when Duane died. Also a few Fender Strats and Teles, a few Gibson hollow bodies including a very cool 335 dot neck, an Ibanez Artistan...about 50 guitars.
Gregg had 42 guitars at his death and left all of them to Devon.
You know many of these successful and wealthy guitarists have many guitars yet are still looking for something else it seems. Duane Allman changed Les Pauls about three times in 2 1/2 years. The second time he did it to get a pretty red sunburst but kept the pickups that were in his Goldtop so that time it wasn't to find a different sound.
@bill_graham I get that some players feel a little disappointed with Gibson in certain areas. But there are certain types of music that require - cry out for certain types of guitars. As good as Marty Stuart and Kenny Vaughn are, I don't think their brand of music would be or sound the same without that Telecaster twang! The music of the Allman Brothers, Led Zeppelin - all of that "classic rock" stuff really needs that fat, Gibson humbucker sound. We've all heard it played on different guitars with varying results. It never really sounds as good - at least not to my ears.
@robertdee It doesn't matter how many guitars you have - you always want the one you don't have yet!
@bill_graham I get that some players feel a little disappointed with Gibson in certain areas. But there are certain types of music that require - cry out for certain types of guitars. As good as Marty Stuart and Kenny Vaughn are, I don't think their brand of music would be or sound the same without that Telecaster twang! The music of the Allman Brothers, Led Zeppelin - all of that "classic rock" stuff really needs that fat, Gibson humbucker sound. We've all heard it played on different guitars with varying results. It never really sounds as good - at least not to my ears.
No doubt Rusty, There is nothing like the sound of a Gibson Les Paul tone through a cranked Marshall amp.
I love my 2000 Les Paul Standard Raw Power. From what I have read on Gibson Forums back in the early 2000's the build quality was still very good and I have no issues with mine. I always wanted an LP and wanted a natural finish top so this guitar fit the bill for me. Also, dig the factory-installed Grover tuners so it checked all the boxes for me.
