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Did Dickey Rip Off T-Bone Walker?

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robslob
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A friend of mine named Michael is taking an on-line piano course offered by Chuck Leavell.  Michael is a very fine guitar player but an accomplished pianist as well.  Michael informed me that Leavell referenced Southbound and then directed his students to this T-Bone Walker tune called Leaving You Behind.  All I can say is, have a listen and tell me if you don't think that Southbound is a direct rip-off of Leaving You Behind.  I certainly do think it is.  I'm not here to knock Dickey Betts because he always has been and always will be one of my favorite guitar players and his lofty place in music history is secure.  But I must say that this surprises me because as everyone knows, ABB always was (I thought anyway) very meticulous about giving songwriting credit to their predecessors.


 
Posted : March 3, 2024 7:33 pm
goldtop
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It's Blues Rob...Is there really an original song? I could sing Killing Floor or Cross cut saw etc to this feel...


 
Posted : March 3, 2024 9:09 pm
robertdee
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On An Evening With The Allman Brothers Band first set is Midnight Blues and the writing is credited to Dickey Betts AND Willie McTell. No way they wrote that together. I've always wondered how that  came about. 

Dickey rearranged Southbound after Chuck was no longer in the band and started singing it himself and sometimes swapping lyrics with Gregg and that version does sound like T. Bone. 

On Fillmore East Duane says about Stormy Monday " Elmore James song... actually it's a T Bone Walker song". 

The original arrangement of Southbound is more different I think especially the words:)

 


 
Posted : March 4, 2024 6:52 am
porkchopbob
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It is similar. But as fun as "Southbound" is, it's a pretty generic I-IV-V boogie. Very possible the T-Bone song inspired it, but there are a lot of songs like this, I wouldn't say it's a "rip off".

They weren't Led Zeppelin, they always tried to give proper credit. I'm reminded of "Jelly Jelly", which started out as "Outskirts of Town". Then Gregg added his own "Early Morning Blues" lyrics. Then for some reason he added Bill Erksine's "Jelly Jelly" lyrics, but it was so late that Gregg's "Early Morning Blues" made it to print. Some printings credited Trade Martin, but I think later printings corrected it.

@robertdee that's another good example. Dickey added McTell's "Blues Round Midnight" to the acoustic set, but when he went back and listened to the McTell song he realized he had remembered it wrong and essentially had a new unique song which he renamed "Midnight Blues". But he co-credited McTell because he was the inspiration behind it.


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Posted : March 4, 2024 10:41 am
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robertdee
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@porkchopbob My original vinyl copy has Trade Martin credited on the album Brothers and Sisters but the song credits sleeve which came with B&S has Gregg Allman listed as writer. 

My 1990 CD copy has Trade Martin-Billy Erkstine listed as writers not Gregg and the title is "Jelly Jelly". 

According to Alan Paul's book Gregg kept telling Johnny Sandlin he needs to spend more time on the song and rework some of the lyrics. Johnny Sandlin finally tells Gregg Phil Walden wants to release the album next month and we need you to sing your new lyrics and if you don't have them then re-sing what you sang on the demo. 

But when Gregg finally showed up and the vocal track of that song was the only thing left to finish the album, Johnny Sandlin was shocked Gregg didn't have his lyrics tweaked and as the tape rolled Gregg sang lyrics from Jelly, Jelly and I think part of another song and that is why they eventually added Billy Erkstine to the credit. 

That inability of Gregg to finish his lyric tweak cost him a lot of money. No longer was the song Gregg's Early Morning Blues but Jelly Jelly. Gregg felt Brothers and Sisters would not sell well and be a set back for the band after Eat A Peach selling over one million copies. Gregg was wrong. Brothers and Sisters BY FAR is the biggest selling Allman Brothers Band album ever. Over SEVEN MILLION COPIES and Gregg was reduced to just two writing credits and Dickey for the first time had FOUR!!! Just the writing royalty alone from B&S was a big reason Dickey became the member of the band worth the most money by millions of dollars beyond Gregg and the others. 

In 1995 Bo Diddley announced he was going to sue the Allman Brothers Band for No One Left To Run With on Where It All Begins. But Diddley discovered Dickey in earlier interviews said he and a friend wrote the song around 1982:to be on the first Betts, Hall, Leavell, Trucks album but that band after trying several labels FAILED to secure a recording contract. And Dickey said the song was inspired by that Bo Diddley shuffle and a tip of the hat to Bo. Then Bo Diddley changed his mind about hiring a lawyer. 

The song absolutely borrows Bo Diddley's often used shuffle he used on several songs. 


 
Posted : March 4, 2024 12:07 pm
robertdee
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@porkchopbob Thank you for posting Blues Around Midnight. It was fun to hear that for the first time. Yes On First Set (1992) it's credited to Dickey and Blind Willie. 

What is your impression of Dickey's slow blues solo on Jelly. Jelly? 

To me it's the best slow blues non slide solo on any Allman Brothers Band album. I put it ahead of any non slide slow blues by Duane, Danny Toler, Jack, Warren and Derek. 

Here it is if you need to refreshing your memory. 

This should have been Early Morning Blues by GREGG ALLMAN!! 


 
Posted : March 4, 2024 12:19 pm
Rusty
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Ripped off ... or influenced?  T Bone Walker influenced EVERYBODY!  The great Chuck Berry, himself borrowed immensely from T Bone.  Here's somethin' for ya:


This post was modified 2 years ago by Rusty
 
Posted : March 4, 2024 4:53 pm
Stephen
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Very cool, esp when Chuck hands his axe to T Bone - one a blues pioneer, the other a rock n roll pioneer 

Chuck’s version of this on his Live at the Fillmore West w/the Steve Miller Band is the bomb too - he plays all those ones, Drifting Blues, It Hurts Me Too, Wee Baby Blues, also Fillmore Blues…..heck when they first started they were known as the Steve Miller Blues Band

the old adage holds, the blues had a baby & they called it rock n roll

there are similarities in many songs of both genres 

great clips🤙

 


This post was modified 2 years ago 3 times by Stephen
 
Posted : March 4, 2024 5:52 pm
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Rusty
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@stephen Steve Miller made a bazillion dollars playing pop hits, but he is a bad-ass guitar player!  Lessons from Les Paul and (I believe) visits in his parents home from the likes of Charlie Christian, T Bone Walker and others.  He played with Buddy Guy early on, too. I saw him do a show with Eric Johnson - including the two jamming together.  They did an extended jam on "Fly Like an Eagle" that would've made Miles Davis proud!


 
Posted : March 4, 2024 6:51 pm
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AlPaul
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@robertdee Covered this whole Jelly Jelly situation in depth in Brothers and Sisters. Absolute mystery how Track martin ended up with a writing credit.

As for No One left to run with, dickey writing it with John Prestia is a generous interpretation. I think Prestia wrote it and Dickey took a credit for recording it, which has been a very common practice by many through the years.


 
Posted : March 5, 2024 1:48 pm
robertdee
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@alpaul Yes thank you Alan. I bought your Brothers and Sisters book when it came out. 

I still have the vinyl copy of Brothers and Sisters album I bought in August 1974 at a local record store. 

I like to read every thing on albums and even soft drinks and cereal Smile and the actual record has Trade Martin on the lable under the title of the track as the writer. But the credits sleeve inside the album lists Early Morning Blues by Gregg Allman. Your book cleared up that confusion for me. 

On my 1990 or 2000 CD version of Brothers and Sisters Billy Erkstine is listed as the author of the song. 

Gregg missed get a writing royalty for a track on an album that sold over 7 million copies but failing to finish the song Early Morning Blues. 

I remember Bo Diddley was quoted in the press about 1995 he was going to sue the Allman Brothers Band for No One Left To Run With as the music is his stuff. 

But later I read Bo changed his mind when he found out Dickey said the song was written as a tip of the hat to Bo Diddley and that distinctive shuffle. Not sure if any of that I read can be trusted. 

That is surprising indeed Dickey may not have written any of the song No One Left To Run With. 

Yes there are many examples of someone with connections getting a writing credit on a song they did not contribute anything. 

I've read One Way Out is one. Elmore James shared that song with Marshall Sehorn who wrote none of it but did have the connections to get it recorded. Then later they had to give Sonny Boy Williamson 2 a piece of it too. 

 

 


 
Posted : March 5, 2024 2:37 pm
porkchopbob
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Posted by: @alpaul

As for No One left to run with, dickey writing it with John Prestia is a generous interpretation. I think Prestia wrote it and Dickey took a credit for recording it, which has been a very common practice by many through the years.

Ha that makes sense. I heard a story that Dickey walked into album rehearsals in 1993 and upon hearing the band working up this song said, "that's sounds great, who wrote it?"

"You did" they responded.

Here's a video of Prestia performing "No One to Run With" and talking about writing it, to whatever degree, with Dickey in the early 1980s. (Skip to the 54:20 mark if it doesn't autostart from there)


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Posted : March 5, 2024 2:52 pm
Rusty
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Steve Miller jamming with Les Paul:


 
Posted : March 5, 2024 4:31 pm
Stephen
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Dig those sublime guitars-only blues in the hands of a master & a former pupil, now Steve Miller - most enjoyable🤙🎵

but yeah, whether Jelly Jelly, Early Morning Blues, Outskirts of Town, the various arrangements of them etc 

…..from that same general era, has Berry’s Jam ever seen the light of day? I only have it on cassette, haven’t heard it in eons & always liked it - real different & good - quite listenable but a remaster would do it justice - never figured out if it was BO or Lamar

🎶🍄🎵


 
Posted : March 5, 2024 7:10 pm
Stephen
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Of course SMonday is the one we all know & love re slow blues, but their two later studio ones, NYLSBad (1979) & Gambler’s Roll (1989) also show why the ABB was really blues-first, blues master 

xmpl, was COIMKitchen ever in surer hands than the Brothers? (1990) - not to my ears, altho Mr Miller’s live solo acoustic take from 1973🎶🎵

 


This post was modified 2 years ago by Stephen
 
Posted : March 5, 2024 7:32 pm
robslob
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@rusty:  THANKS, RUSTY.  Damn, that Steve Miller/Les Paul video was STELLAR!!!  In fact I'd go as far as saying that it gives me new respect for Steve Miller as a bluesman.  That is going out to some friends for SURE.


 
Posted : March 6, 2024 6:57 am
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